Welcome to the stone ages...Kansas is FUCKED

[greenbriar]

Kansas Marriage Amendment
20% Precincts Reporting
Yes 58699
No 21952


As of 8:40

[DebJ]

Next step: original version of "F" word:

Fornicating Under the Consent of the King: old myth that the word came from needing the Kings permission to fornicate.

[Jack Rabbit]

2. But our King doesn't know anything about that

He was drunk the night he sired the twins.

[DebJ]

7. I thought it was artificial insemination: can't a limp biscuit cause

a power driven complex to develop?

[yurbud]

9. had to be to do a chick--probably thinking of Gannon

or his equivalent from back then.

[Jack Rabbit]

1. I know it's not good, but . . .

. . . is anybody surprised?

[Kipepeo]

3. It's not as bad as alabama...

they want to ban gay adoption and any BOOKS that concern homosexuality or are written by gay authors as well....

no joke, these are bills in the AL house right now, in addition to a gay marriage ban...

[Jack Rabbit]

6. What? No performances of The Glass Menagerie?

No readings of Oscar Wilde or Allen Ginsberg?

[Kipepeo]

10. Seriously

as one article put it, you better read the Color Purple while you got the chance in Alabama...

[Jack Rabbit]

14. Breakfast at Tiffany's, too

The novella is a lot better than the movie.

That is reminiscent of some of the Jewish laws in the Third Reich; the ones that forbade Mendelssohn's music and dictated that psychology would be taught without reference to Freud and physics without reference to Einstein.

That is really outrageous.

[Kipepeo]

24. I know - I can't believe this is 2005 and some people out there think

this might be a good idea.

Link about the Alabama Book Banning Bill: http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=2920970

Crazy!

[AntiCoup2K4]

26. There's no resemblance between the Nazi's and the grandson of their banker

...so stop saying that!!

[Jack Rabbit]

31. I am, in fact, one of those who objects loudly to frivolous comparisons

The fact that Prescott Bush lent money to Hitler and his Reich doesn't even make Pescott Bush a Nazi, let alone his grandson, although I've seen that argued here; a man of poor moral judgment, definitely, but not necessarily a card-carrying Nazi. As for your favorite Frat Boy and mine, he can rise and fall on his own moral deficiencies, independent of his grandfather's. His grandfather did not lead a country into war by telling a pack of willful lies. Frankly, I'd rather go before a just God guilty of nothing more than lending money to Hitler than that.

The proposal Mr. Allen makes in Alabama, however, is an attempt to say that a class of people, because they are of that class, cannot create anything of value to civilization. That is very much like the Jewish laws of the Third Reich I described above. The narrow-mindedness behind the proposition is astounding.

I am numb to believe that this could happen in America.

[Smarmie Doofus]

29. Interesting parallel... and the Freudian dimmension the....

most interesting of all.

Nazism and homophobia, though not precisely the same, arise from similar psychosocial dynamics. I think treating each as a social mental health issue rather than as a political issue is really more appropriate.

In other words... the issue shouldn't be... " What's the matter with Jews?", it should be ( and IS , in fact)"What's the matter with Nazis?"

The same holds true for sexual minorities and their would-be persecutors.

[Smarmie Doofus]

11. In other words... they want to ban western civilization from.....

the state of Alabama.

[yurbud]

12. when they ban gay fashion designers women will rebel

Straight guys can't design worth a damn, and no woman will design something that makes another woman look good. I think Gays should go Lysistrata on the red states. Pree-emptively pull "Queer Eye," "Will and Grace," and all clothes except mechanics overalls--but a gay guy probably designed that too.

[QC]

34. Does Gerald Allen have a cosponsor for that bill yet? n/t

[Kipepeo]

35. Not sure...

I'll do some googling.

I do know its being protested at colleges across the county now so hopefully it falls into the pit of embarrassment, never to resurface.

Edied to add: I can't tell from the AL congress site, but here os the PDF of the bill, which doesn't mention a cosponsor: http://www.alsde.edu/legislative_bills/2005Regular/HB0030_OR.pdf

[QC]

38. No, he has not found a single cosponsor, which is why

it's more a bit disengenuous to say that this is what "they" want in Alabama.

[Kipepeo]

39. Uh - excuse me friend

But I don't know what I did to elicit such meow-meow-scratchiness.

When I say 'they' I don't mean every fucking person in Alabama...I mean simply that this is a bill in the AL legislature in this day and age and it's gotten quite a bit of media attention at that, so I'm not exactly pulling random straw from 'me arse.' There is no similar bill being considered in Kansas or any other state to my knowledge - and that's why this one has drawn such attention.

I did not realize he was having trouble getting a cosponsor. Do a general google search yourself and see if that comes up. It didn't when I was looking into it. Perhaps you could have told me in a "hey, looks like that might not go anywhere vibe,..." instead of laying some kind of trap where I ACTUALLY WENT LOOKING FOR YOU when you knew the answer to your question all along(!) Talk about "Disingenuous," (that's how it's spelled btw) not to mention unnecessarily rude.

[Clark2008]

43. Heh!

Such a good rant, I had to smile. :)

No other comment - really - just thought your comeback was classy. :thumbsup:

[unsavedtrash]

42. Alice Walker was at the protest in Tuscaloosa but did it get any news

coverage? Not a word. In our (Tuscaloosa) local news paper poll on the bill, over half voted in favor of the ban.

[bluestateguy]

4. That's why they call it "flyover" country

Fly right on over it on campaign stops between New Mexico and Pennsylvania.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Not fucked

just full of bigots.

But that certainly doesn't surprise me.

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. You'd think that having a national best-seller on the topic...

of how.... shall we say.... "short-sighted" the people of your state are would shock folks to their senses.

[MoonRiver]

13. All that does is make them more defensive.

Seriously, I've talked to rational people here who complain that the book just tries to make Kansans look stupid when compared to uppity Northeasterners. Never mind that the author is a native Kansan! So just imagine what the true Neanderthals, who I try not to associate with, believe.
:hide:

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. Evidently. But the real tragedy is that Kansas has.....

2 voes in the Senate... just like grown-up states.

Anyone for adopting a parliamentary democracy?

[MoonRiver]

16. I've lived in three states. They all USED to have Democratic Senators,

some not so many years ago. Now all are controlled by Repukes. As they say: WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THIS COUNTRY?

[yurbud]

25. Republican majority with Bush at head is like parliament

or politburo

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. I'm not so sure. For instance, if we used the British system.....

seats in the legislature would be awarded ( correct me if I'm wrong) proportionately to the percentage of the vote in the Nat'l election.... or is that the Israeli system. ( Commentary and clarification welcome at any point).

If so, the dems would hold roughly 48% of the nat'l legislature. The leader of the the ruling party is usually a ... for lack of a better word...."parliamentarian", no? IE, a political leader who understands how to debate, legislate, think about issues and solve problems. The minority leader is similarly equipped.

Bush Jr. would not have risen to prime minister under such a system. Agreed?

The spell check is not working tonite for me.

[yurbud]

17. Mess with their heads--start initiative to ban gay taxes

I wish I thought of this, but someone else wrote it and I lost the link:

Should Gay Men & Lesbians Be Allowed to Pay Taxes?
by Demian

“No taxation without representation!” is a familiar quote from the early days of the American revolution. And just as the colonists had no means of controlling the way their taxes where used, same-sex families have no way of being eligible for the benefits opposites-sex couples take for granted.

When the basic civil right of marriage is denied same-sex couples, the underlying question then becomes “Should gay men and lesbians be obligated to pay taxes for a government which routinely denies them access to so many basic human rights — especially the right to legal marriage benefits?”

Those who say same-sex couples must not be allowed legal marriage can not have it both ways — they seem to want us to pay taxes, without being eligible for any of the privileges and benefits that these taxes finance. Legal marriage triggers more than 1,040 benefits in the Federal system, plus 150-350 state-defined benefits as well. This lack of equal access is not the American way. If same-sex couples don’t deserve equal footing in this democracy, then those who don’t want legal marriage for same-sex couples should launch a campaign to also prevent same-sex families from paying taxes which support these benefits.

And it’s not just marriage benefits that are denied lesbians and gay men. Florida and New Hampshire laws refuse adoption to known homosexuals. Arkansas and Utah recently approved regulations banning gay, lesbian, bisexual and transsexual people from becoming foster parents. The right to adopt or provide foster care is also under attack in Indiana, Oklahoma, Texas, Virginia.

Colorado passed a law called Amendment 2, which has since been struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court. Before it was invalidated, this law forbade any other laws which addressed discrimination against lesbians and gay men. It also had forbidden any political redress for lesbians and gay men. When that law was devised, the State of Colorado should have insisted that its lesbian and gay population stop paying taxes because the government had stopped representing its lesbian and gay citizens.

Nineteen states still have so-called “sodomy” laws on their books. These laws belittle, attempt to subjugate, and define lesbians and gay men as not fully human. Even if they are infrequently enforced, they are used as an argument to deny jobs, housing and child custody, by claiming that lesbians and gay men are felons by inclination, if not deed.

To help make it clear that lesbians and gay men are second-class citizens, and don’t deserve to be treated like all other Americans, here is a modest proposal:

A Contract with Gay America
We think that gay men and lesbians should
receive tax breaks proportioned precisely on
the percent by which they are denied access:

social security for survivor’s benefits
because they cannot get survivor’s
benefits when their partners die.

federal taxes for military personnel
because they are refused enlistment,
hunted if in the service, and discharged.

state taxes for child welfare
because they are prevented from having
custody of children, being a foster
parent, or adopting children.

local taxes for schools
because they are fired from teaching
jobs.

local taxes that support the police
because the police routinely underreport,
if they report at all, the hate crimes
perpetuated against lesbians and gay

men.


A minority of Americans loudly insist that lesbians and gay men should not be allowed to have children, should not be teachers, should not be in the military, and they want marriage to remain the exclusive domain of the opposite-sex couple. They are doing their best to prevent lesbians and gay men from fully participating in American society. Shouldn’t they also insist that gay men and lesbians not pay that share of taxes which go to support child welfare, schools, military, and the benefits of legal marriage?

The Republican party, for one, keeps insisting that taxes should be cut. Well, here is an excellent place to start.

Demian is co-director of Partners Task Force for Gay & Lesbian Couples

[Generator]

18. These anti-gay marriage bans are all about

living in DENIAL.

The gays are still here. They've always been here, in every family, in every place, in every religion and color and every time in history even in KansAS.

The gays are out of the closet, out of the dark, the secret is out of the bag. They are still going to fall in love, be in relationships, adopt and have children and find ways to be just like married people no matter how much fear those in KansAS have to deny their humanity and believe that THEY are somehow different than them and their marriage.

I think it's a backlash from how out and open gays have gotten and that they are accepted as just, well, people!

ELLEN is my favorite talk show.

Rosie was everybody's favorite in Kansas, I'm sure. But ooooh...don't want to think of her sex life. Why can't she just lie and pretend like everybody did for so long? It was so nice that way. Here's the deal-I don't want to think of almost anybody's sex life. It's not about sex. It's about humanity. It's about reality. They exist. You can't close your eyes and make it become 1947 no matter how much you want it to be.

And in their hearts, they know it. It's pathetic. All they can do is stop them from getting MARRIED. Which is the most common, middle class, boring thing I can imagine. (believe me I'm married) It's also simply profound. Seeing someone smile with love and happiness and your religon is against that?

Denial is all they have. Unless they want the American Taliban. And we know some of them do. But mostly, they are trying to turn back time. It's denial. It's over. Someday it will be moot. And they will have lost their crusade to turn back time. The future still comes.

[LimpingLib]

19. Gay marriage isnt exactly the world norm.

This might be deadlock but its not exactly retrogression that will end the world.

Heck, 25,000 people starve to death every day and the world still spins and "happily" in my neck of the woods I migh add.

Sad (scratch.DISGUSTING) but true.

Reality bites man!

[greenbriar]

20. but its not just gay marriage

the wording leaves it open for out right denying of a LOT of things.


it is a slippery slope

[atommom]

21. Sadly, yes. If I had a beer, I'd be drinking it...

preferably with other sad Democrats! :beer:

[Jack Rabbit]

22. After that subthread started by Kipepeo, atommom

Drink up :beer:

I'm a straight man, but a straight democrat. These are sad times for the cause of democracy.

[atommom]

27. Straight Dem woman, tipping my imaginary beer in your honor...

:beer:

[norml]

23. Kansas makes Nebraska look like Iowa.

And Iowa is like the San Francisco of the Midwest.

[RUMPLEMINTZ]

28. Can anyone think of a state

that would allow gay marriage? Didn't Oregon ban it by something like 57%-43%? That's a very progressive state.

[Azathoth]

33. No. Gay marriage is a hopeless issue I'm afraid

Even most northeastern states would never vote for "gay marriage". Civil unions and domestic partnerships are a different matter. States like Vermont and New Jersey have passed civil union laws which extend all the rights and privileges of marriage to same-sex couples.

[RUMPLEMINTZ]

37. I think we missed an opportunity

if we would have started with say "civil unions" in Oregon, Vermont, New York, Conneticut(sp?) and those kind of states I bet that would have passed. Then it could have progressed from there. One step at a time instead of trying to get the whole enchelada at once. Now it's going to be twice as difficult.

It's kind of funny, my brother is gay, a doctor, and participates in triathalons and he doesn't want anything to do with "gay marriage." He says we heterosexuals have screwed it up so damn bad we can have it.

[American Tragedy]

45. I still don't understand what's the difference between the two

I thought marriage was in fact a civil union by definition.

Indeed, if Vermont and New Jersey state governments extend all of the legal rights of marriage to same-sex couples, is it not the same thing?

[Scout1071]

30. Guess how many resources the dems put into kansas?

Nothing. Zip. Nada.

I live in Kansas and I voted today. But I really took the initiative to be familiar with the amendment and the date of the vote. Some of my friends and my mother voted....ALL AGAINST THE AMENDMENT. But I'd like to make clear that there was no push whatsoever against the amendment. Yet, while standing next to my boss's computer yesterday she got an email she said was from her "church friend" reminding her to vote and which candidates/amendments.

The fact is is that the Democrats are MIA in states like Kansas. No resources. No results. The Pubs are spreading their message thru the churches here and it's being conveyed that * is the party of Christians. Period.

Instead of pointing fingers at the people of Kansas and other states, maybe we should be pushing our own local democratic parties and make it clear to the national party that we demand action in these states and maybe, just maybe, it could make a difference. Changing the hearts and minds of so many who are on the fence much more than you give them credit for is our only hope for the next election or any other.

[importDavid]

36. Yup. +2 for "NO"

My wife and I voted "NO" even though we knew it was probably a losing battle.

I'm so incredibly frustrated now. Grrr.

[Kipepeo]

41. It does seem to be all state grassroots orgs

instead of national ones or party ones.

There was Kansans for Fairness and Equality Kansas, but I don't know if they got any money from national roups like the HRC, for example. My guess would be little from national lgbt groups and none from the Dems.

??

[atommom]

44. Did you see the articles about how much out-of-state money

the pro-amendment people had pouring in? James Dobson's Focus on the Family and other conservative groups were donating like crazy. Most of their money came from out of state, while the anti-amendment group was relying on local donations. Interestingly, it looks as if more local money was donated to the anti-amendment group.

The Knights of Columbus -- the world's largest lay Catholic organization, based in New Haven, Conn. -- donated $100,000 to support the amendment that Kansans will decide April 5 at the polls.

In addition, the nationally known conservative Christian organization Focus on the Family, led by James Dobson out of Colorado Springs, Colo., has spent $23,063 to urge people to support the ban.

In total, groups supporting the amendment have raised $152,429, while groups opposing the amendment have raised $36,032, with much of that support coming from Lawrence residents.

http://www.ljworld.com/section/gaymarriage/story/199708

[Scout1071]

46. EXACTLY. Stop blaming Kansans and start blaming the democratic

party for putting absolutely none of their resources into our states.

You reap what you sow.

[usregimechange]

40. Burn me at the stake.

:shrug: :hide: