Has anyone got links to John Paul II's statements re: Iraq?

[DemBones DemBones]

I ask because this Bush**man,, Jim Nicholson (former ambassador to the Vatican, now Secretary of Dept. of Veterans Affairs) was just interviewed live on CNN and tried to finesse the anchor's question about JP II's opposition to the war on Iraq.
Through the wonders of TiVo, I was able to transcribe the pertinent parts of what he said.

Nicholson had been spinning about John Paul II's support for combating terrorism post-9/11 and segued to "and that led to the support of the Pope andthe Holy See of our efforts against international terrorism, including our efforts in Afghanistan, and that support has continued until today."

The anchor, amazingly, came back right away with "Well, not so much for the war on Iraq. The Pope came out and said he was actually against that. Did you discuss that with him?

Nicholson weaseled:

"Well, the Pope made that announcement at a apeech that he gave to the diplomats that he made in January 2003But the Pope never said it would be immoral for us to go into Iraq, and he never said it was; he said 'War is a defeat for humanity, and war is not inevitable, and we agreed with that and that's why the pResident made such an effort at the UN to get resolutions to get Saddam Hussein yadda yadda" and ended his non-answer with:

"Of course the Pope is opposed to war; he's a man of peace, but he's not a pacifist."


MIRACLE ON CNN: The anchor didn't let him get away with this evasiveness! She came back with, "No, but he absolutely was against this war in Iraq.," following up with "Was the pResident taken aback by the depth of feeling the Pope had toward this war.

Nicholson again said "the Pope never said the war was immoral."

I seem to remember John Paul II telling Dubya if he went into Iraq, he would go without God!!! Would love to have links!

Nicholson was spinning so hard it's a wonder he didn't just torque himself right down into the ground he was standing on.

Another choice comment:

"the Pope had great respect for pResident Bush because they had such shared values"

:puke:

Shared values like their strong opposition to capital punishment?

[Mutley]

1. heh...

"that's why the pResident made such an effort at the UN to get resolutions to get Saddam Hussein"

i'd like to know when this took place.... was i asleep???

sorry i don't have the tape but i'd be highly interested in hearing it if someone has it.

[DemBones DemBones]

3. Maybe there'll be a transcript at CNN later.

I didn't actually record it, I just used the TiVo to replay live footage several times until I got most of it down. He also mentioned the Pope sending an archbishop to Baghdad to try to avert the war and how "they" (the Bushies) were so pleased to work with them -- really slinging the BS!)

I'll google for JP II's actual words later -- unless someone else has them bookmarked and posts.

[MADem]

2. Shared values, like supporting the UN???

http://www.americancatholic.org/News/JustWar/Iraq/papalstatement.asp

War is not always inevitable. It is always a defeat for humanity," he said.


"And what are we to say of the threat of a war which could strike the people of Iraq, the land of the prophets, a people already sorely tried by more than 12 years of embargo?" he said.


"War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations," he said.


The pope said the U.N. charter and international law "remind us war cannot be decided upon, even when it is a matter of ensuring the common good, except as the last option and in accordance with very strict conditions, without ignoring the consequences for the civilian population both during and after the military options."

[DemBones DemBones]

6. Thanks for that link. I wonder about other comments he made

outside of that one speech. I'll do a search of online Catholic press later today, see if I can find more.

[MADem]

9. I think they have all, or most, of his writings on the Vatican site

It's probably getting crushed today, and probably will for the next week or two.

[bluedog]

4. Go into Iraq and you go without God

http://www.capitolhillblue.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi?archive=15&num=1883&printer=1



Bush Leagues
Pope to Bush: Go into Iraq and you go without God
By CHB Staff and Wire Reports
Mar 5, 2003, 07:18

Pope John Paul II has a strong message for President George W. Bush: God is not on your side if you invade Iraq.

But the President told the pope's envoy the leader of the world's Catholics is wrong.

Pope John Paul II
Pleading for peace, an emissary from Pope John Paul II questioned Bush Wednesday on whether he was doing all he could to avert what the envoy called an "unjust" war with Iraq.

Bush said removing Saddam Hussein would make the world more peaceful.

The president met with Cardinal Pio Laghi, a former Vatican ambassador to the United States and a Bush family friend, on Ash Wednesday, the start of the Christian Lenten season of penance and spiritual renewal leading up to Easter.

Bush told the envoy in a 40-minute meeting that "if it comes to the use of force, he believes it will make the world better," said White House spokesman Ari Fleischer, who attended the private meeting. "Removing the threat to the region will lead to a better, more peaceful world in which innocent Iraqis will have a better life."

Laghi came bearing the pope's message: A war would be a "defeat for humanity" and would be neither morally nor legally justified.

more..........

[Mutley]

7. you'd think mr. christian

would want god on his side....

[bluedog]

5. Pope takes issue with America's 'just war'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-572322,00.html

http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,63637,00.jpg


Vatican diplomacy


From Richard Owen in Rome

THE POPE launched an eleventh-hour crusade yesterday to avert a war against Iraq, for which he believes there is no justification.

The ageing pontiff rebuffed attempts by the Bush Administration to persuade him that impending military action against Baghdad amounted to a Christian “just war”.

Today he will dispatch a personal peace envoy to Baghdad to urge President Saddam Hussein to co-operate fully with United Nations weapons inspectors.

At the end of the week he will meet Tariq Aziz, Iraq’s Deputy Prime Minister and an Arab Christian, in Rome, and will also meet Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary-General. Diplomats said that Mr Aziz might remain in Rome to meet Mr Annan under the auspices of the Vatican.

more..........


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-572322,00.html

[DemBones DemBones]

8. Thanks for those! I could hardly believe my ears when

Nicholson said all that -- and with a straight face.

He went through a little dialogue on Catholic teaching on just wars but he needs to review what the Catechism says about sin, because lying is certainly considered a sin!