CNN Toobin admits connection of Schiavo and abortion fight.

[madfloridian]

Someone mentioned this on another thread, and I thought it worthy of its own post.

http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/18/otsc.toobin/

WOODRUFF: What would the precedent be set here, if Congress, if either the family were to do what they're doing, but especially for Congress to get involved in an even more aggressive way than they have. What are the implications down the road for other cases similar to this?

TOOBIN: Well, I think it's really unusual and, you know, there's actually even a provision in the Constitution called a bill of attainder. And what that means is under the Constitution, the Congress is not allowed to pass a law directed at a specific person. That was dealt with in the American Revolution because the British Parliament had, you know, passed laws saying John Adams, for example, is a criminal. Under our Constitution, we can't make laws about specific people. So, that would be an issue in the challenge to this law, if it became effect.

But, Judy, I think one thing, you know, really needs to be said here. Is what this issue is really about. I mean, what the larger context for all of this is, is abortion politics. That is really what's the very clear undercurrent here. The right to life movement feels very strongly in what President Bush calls a culture of life.

And they begin -- that matters at the beginning of life, in abortion, and the end of life, in a situation like this. The people supporting the removal of the feeding tube feel very strongly about the autonomy of the person. But that's the subtext here and that is, I think, what's really driving a lot of the partisans on both sides...."END SNIP

[TahitiNut]

1. Imagine if they 'discovered' Terri Schiavo were pregnant.

It'd be rape, of course. That'd have the foam dripping down their chins.

[Auntie Bush]

13. That would make Judge Greer a murder of two just like What's his face.

The chair for Geer. Good chant for the fundies.

[kevsand]

19. Ewwww!

Yuck. That's just wrong on so many levels...

[TahitiNut]

20. And what they're doing isn't?

Terri Shiavo is, literally, the Living Dead. Her worshippers are ghouls. Necrophilia would be "up" for them.

[kevsand]

23. Of course it is.

You're absolutely right. I'm just trying real hard not to think about it, inbetween feeling guilty about LMAO...

[TahitiNut]

24. I know. It's hard not to see these people for the sick joke they are.

:evilgrin: ... and laugh. At least it would be hard if it weren't so reminiscent of 1930's Germany and Italy - and state ownership of the citizen. It's no accident that the Handmaid's Tale is so evocative. We have Free Choice - as long as the 'Choice' is the Right One.

[MissB]

2. Shudder.

Wugh.

[Carolab]

3. I think the Constitutional issue is the ultimate "question".

As Jeffrey said: "Well, I think it's really unusual and, you know, there's actually even a provision in the Constitution called a bill of attainder. And what that means is under the Constitution, the Congress is not allowed to pass a law directed at a specific person."

IOW, what Congress is doing here is unconstitutional.

[thecrow]

4. I just posted in LBN that Congress has cut a deal on Schiavo

It's insane.

[madfloridian]

5. Congress overturning court rulings, so to speak.

At least I think I have that right. Not a lawyer. It has been in Florida Courts for years and years. They don't like the courts rulings so they get congress to take it up. It is just wrong.

[Carolab]

6. Yup. Terry's husband gets it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1325357&mesg_id=1325357

[Carolab]

7. So does Mike Thomas of the Orlando Sentinel

<snip>

The problem is that legislators cannot pass a law that basically says: "Feed Terri Schiavo."

They tried that in 2003, and the courts tossed it out as blatantly unconstitutional.

To pass a bill that has any chance of being applied in Terri's case, the politicians have to come up with one that applies to all of us.

And so legislators are working on measures that could force family members to maintain a relative in a vegetative state if they could not produce some kind of directive from that relative stating wishes to the contrary. Another proposal has vague wording about an "interested party" being allowed to intervene.

This is a frightening intrusion into the most personal and gut-wrenching decisions a family can make.

<snip>

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/columnists/orl-locmiket18031805mar18,0,1829442.column

[madfloridian]

8. Judges appointed by Jeb ruled for the husband, many times.

From your article link:

"Many of the judges who have ruled in favor of Terri's husband are conservatives appointed by Jeb Bush."

I firmly believe they are doing this to not hurt Bill Nelson next year. Instead of standing up and calling this like it is, they pander.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. So what can we do about this?

Since this is unconstiutional. What does this mean? Of course we're powerless since they've done tons of unconstiutional things.

[AntiCoup2K4]

9. Martinez (on FAUX Sunday) brought the 14th Amendment into it.

Could it be that, in addition to the other motivations, the 'Pukes are also trying to hijack the 14th amendment to defend the government interest in vegetables, rather than have "librul" judges use it to defend "sodomite weddin's" as they have done in Massachusetts and California?

[The Flaming Red Head]

10. Just another diversion (I no longer care)

Enough already, I could give a fuck if she lives, dies, or suddenly walks on water. They don't care if a homeless person dies of exposure or someone dies of Hep C for lack of interferon or if an AIDS patient is unable to obtain the drugs needed to sustain life. They don't care if I can't make it to work because gas is too expensive and we can't afford to eat because I can't afford to buy gas to go to work to buy food. They are spending way too much time on this and I have reached a point where I could care less, it is not something that our lawmakers in DC should be wasting our time over. I care about the soldiers and civilians getting maimed and dying in Iraq, I care about my friends dying needlessly here in this country for lack of health care. I'm tired of the whole fucking thing.

[madfloridian]

11. I just heard on CNN that Senate will "wave" the bill through.

What the hell does that mean? Does it mean they have already voted on it? I think Reid and other Dems are in the mideast right now, aren't they?

So it is done deal in the senate, I guess.

[sallyseven]

12. Yes they left on Friday evening.

It had been in the works for weeks. That is why the repukes are bringing this up now. I hate the republicans.

[madfloridian]

14. Not to sound dumb, but have they already voted....

in the senate? It sounds like a done deal already. Maybe I missed something. I know Florida Republican lawmakers who are against it, but our Bill Nelson caved in again.

[madfloridian]

15. US Supreme Court refused to hear it, then congress takes it up.

Something is so wrong with that picture.

SNIP..."TOOBIN: Well, so far the state courts have prevailed. The Florida Supreme Court issued a ruling supporting the decision to remove the feeding tube. That was appealed to the United States Supreme Court, which, of course, is supreme over both state and federal courts. And the United States Supreme Court declined to hear it.

That's what happened last week. That's what set off this final round of litigation because that case was finally over. So the state courts, which have consistently upheld what they view as Terri Schiavo's own decision to let her life end in this way, that decision has consistently been upheld throughout all appeals."

[FreedomAngel82]

18. This is so disgusting

These people are playing God. :argh:

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Culture of life?!

What about the Iraqi children?! What about the Iraqi mothers who are pregnant? What about them?! CULTURE OF LIFE MY ASS!

[madfloridian]

21. And with the senate intervention just now, culture of life continues.

:shrug:

They would probably give in on women's right now.

[Nikki Stone 1]

22. They've already signalled that they are doing that.

The figure women have no other party to go to, with or without abortion.