Is the DLC stupid, suicidal, or are they a bunch of cheap corp. whores?

[fujiyama]

By leadership, I'm not including Dean, because they despised him.

I'm speaking here mostly of the DLC. Now, most people on this site hate them and with good reason.

But this bankruptcy bill indicates to me that the DLC has NO intention or interest in appealing to anyone outside of the corporate class.

They don't want the votes of red staters because if they did they would have framed this issue that way.

How could it have been framed? Well, quite simple. Easier than opposing the tax cuts.

Joe sixpack has heard of Enron. They know there are corporate crooks out there. What they don't know is these crooks can hide their assets in trusts, fire the worker and when the worker loses their job, their bills pile up...and they're in perpetual debt.

Instead the DLCers sold out for a few dollars...and it's not even that much. Atleast the repukes took a boatload. For example my senator Stabenaw probably got very little from the credit card industry. I know it doesn't have a whole lot of sway here in MI. But she voted for this garbage.

Cheap corporate whores. That's all I can think.

Thank God I have one senator with some good sense.

[Enquiringkitty]

1. They don't want to get the corporate class mad at them. They

need that corporate money to when campaign time rolls around but this is going to cost some of them their jobs. My two Senators voted in favor of this and I sent them emails telling them to get that resume ready cause they either have to try and make ends meet in this state with all of the things they voted for working against them too or move out of state.....either way...they weren't keeping that job after the next election.

[Wilms]

2. I've seen it argued that Bankruptcy and Social Security are intertwined

The idea being, they go with one in exchange for enough Republicans opposing the other. I dunno :shrug:

But no small factor. THEY'RE IN THE MINORITY! It's a whole different game.


That all said, can we lose the DLC? Please. I can't stand it. :cry:

[fujiyama]

3. If they do that

the senate Dems are more naive and dumber than Bush himself.

If they go along with deals like that, they deserve to be taken for a ride.

As though the pukes will ever make concessions on anything.

[Wilms]

4. I ain't defending their generally sorry state... No siree.

Just sayin'. Bush's SS plan is in sorry shape. Maybe the Dems can nudge it.

And let us challenge, as appropriate, Dems in the primary, and, hell, NOW!

Just as Boxer got the support she needed, the DLC can get the message from us.

Call. Wear 'em down.

[marcologico]

5. DLC is old news. These clowns are "New Democrats" and no, Kerry is NOT

one of them. :)

[wyldwolf]

7. just because you like Kerry doesn't mean he isn't a DLC member

He, in fact, is.

[marcologico]

8. I said Kerry is not a "New Democrat" who are basically GOP-voting Dems nt

[wyldwolf]

10. a "new democrat" is another name for the DLC

You can't change definitions to fit your tastes.

But, by your definition, Lieberman isn't a new Democrat either. Looking at their voting records, they both get very liberal ratings.

In addition, if it's the bankruptcy bill that is now the litmus, Robert Byrd is a new democrat but Hillary and Lieberman are not.

And if you knew the score, you'd know the Dem's votes on this god-awful bill was based on the contributions they've gotten from the credit industry or how their state's economy is served.

What of the non-DLC dems who voted for it? Are they now deemed "new democrats?"

[fujiyama]

11. Oh so should we just excuse their votes?

This isn't about litmus tests and even if it was, why not have a litmus test on whether our senators vote to protect the middle class?

This bill was inexcusable garbage and I could only wish those senators that voted for it (regardless of their party) could live with perpetual debt.

And I was never part of the Robert Byrd fan base. I liked his speaking out against the war, but that was it.

BTW, Clinton vetoed legislation similar to this when he was in office. I think the DLC has moved to the right since then...and it obviously abandoned both Al Gore and Howard Dean.

I don't see their appeal any longer. They have not even the slightest idea as to how to appeal to the red states and what annoys me the most is their lecturing of the rest of us.

[wyldwolf]

14. No! I didn't imply it

But we can't start changing definitions based on this, and that is what my dialogue with marcologico is about.

Kerry may have voted no on this, but so did Lieberman. And they're both "new democrats" or DLC.

There were DLC members who DIDN'T vote for it and non-DLC members who did.

They should be held accountable individually, not as collective members of one group.

[fujiyama]

17. Thanks for clarifying

I agree that they should be held accountable individually.

[wyldwolf]

18. but some aren't

and there is the point.

Their votes weren't based on any organizational policy this time.

But I really don't care what they were based on.

[marcologico]

12. Yes, Lieberman and Kerry both voted against it, but otherwise their

voting records are total opposites, for this session so far. See for yourself:

http://patrickhenrythinktank.org/sen-scores.html

[wyldwolf]

15. that just shows 2005 votes . Their lifetime records are very similar

http://www.issues2000.org/John_Kerry.htm

http://www.issues2000.org/Joseph_Lieberman.htm

Kerry is slightly more liberal on several issues, but not by much.

[marcologico]

19. sure but the OP is about bankruptcy and the rest of ChimpCo's latest

assault on the middle class like the class action bill (Kerry no, Lieberman yes) and SS reform.

[wyldwolf]

20. but you act as though these are the defining issues

Maybe they are today. Last week the defining issue was abortion.

I guess it depends on which way the wind blows on DU.

But you won't see a single Dem vote for SS reform.

[marcologico]

21. I think they ARE defining issues, and I hope you're right about SS, but

splitting Dems on bankruptcy is not a good sign. :(

[fujiyama]

13. Kerry is a member of the DLC

but to his credit does vote to protect the middle class. He's not a corporate whore.

I really like the job he's been doing in the senate since the election.

[marcologico]

16. So do I. Anyway the point I was trying to make

is that there's a corporatist cadre in the House and Senate that doesn't include Kerry but yeah it's associated with the DLC which Kerry is also a member of.

[LARED]

6. Can't they be both? (n/t)

[marcologico]

9. oops, delete (n/t)

[JNelson6563]

22. All of the above

They are stupid, suicidal cheap, corporate whores and their supporters are no better.

Julie

[Eloriel]

23. Coupla interesting DLC-threads I bookmarked

I'd forgotten about them, but they look kinda interesting:

New Dems formed to get corporate donors, be free from party base ideology.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1346735&mesg_id=1346735

Same companies behind the GOP are behind the DLC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1481121#1481428

WTF? Roemer (Candidate for DNC Chair) funded by Scaife!? <[br />http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1475435&mesg_id=1475435
Mercatus Center (Roemer, Scaife funded)
http://www.mercatus.org/capitolhillcampus/article.php/933.htm

I didn't find the one I was looking for -- the letter to Hastert. I guess I'll have to engage Search to try to find it. It was a beauty.

[BlueManDude]

24. most have been in DC too long. n/t

[AntiCoup2K4]

25. To answer the original question...

Yes, yes, and definitely yes!

[w4rma]

26. I don't understand it either. This bill will lose votes for anyone who

supported it. It will gain votes for anyone who opposed it. I'd like to know why they have been trying to pretend to be supporting it, while they poison pill it. And why they think that supporting it will gain them any votes.

It's wierd. What are they afraid of with respect to this bill?