how close are YOU to BANKRUPTCY?

[nashville_brook]

Two years ago I contracted a infection in my spine and spent four months in the hospital. The illness resulted in chronic pain in my back and hips, so I keep current on pain issues on message boards and forums. Here's a common theme:

My husband had his insurance policy "converted" after his work injury. Last year, they wanted $800.00 a month premium. We had to take a $7000.00 deductible to make a $329.48 premium each month. We got a letter last week -- they raised his premium to $2,119,90 per month!

Most bankruptcies result from a major illness. Next most common is the loss of a job; then divorce. We have been led to believe people are gaming the system and that's why we need to tighten the grip. People DO game the system, but they aren't the sick, the unemployed or the divorced. It's The Rich. THE RICH can shelter millions in asset protection accounts and real estate in Florida (or Texas, hmmm).

You'd think that bankruptcy "reform" would address the only way people actually do game the system. Charles Shumer thought so, and proposed to close the millionaire's loophole. With a middle finger pointed in our direction, Republicans and two DINOs rejected the amendment. Senator Kennedy wanted to protect people with medical debt. The Republicans voted that down too. Feingold asked that The Elderly be allowed to keep their homes if everything else is lost. Republicans said, "kick the bums out." Dick Durbin had the audacity to request protection for VETERANS RETURNING FROM WAR -- but again, the Republicans say "tough luck Soldier."

Healthcare and credit companies have declared war on the Middle Class and Congress has reported for duty to engage the enemy -- US.

In a consumer-driven society, what sense does it make to eliminate the consumers? Let the anger wash over you. Breathe into in. Become one with your ourtrage. We've worked hard and played by the rules, and this is what we get. Like the woman from my chronic pain group, just when we need it most, The System is going to screw you, and quicker than you can say coronary bypass, you will be homeless.

Maybe this doesn't bother most people because "no one thinks" they are going to get sick. "No one thinks" they are going to lose their job. And nobody plans to ever need to declare bankruptcy. So, none of this applies to you.

There IS a BRIGHT side. The folks most exposed to the potential of bankruptcy -- suburb-dwellers with oversize houses, oversize interest-free ARMs, and big ass SUVs are going to have the last laugh -- because when the bottom falls out, we are all going to wish we had a car the size of a living room parked down by the railroad tracks with the rest of the Ownership Society.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. I think a lot of us are a lot closer than we would like to be. And the way

things are going, it sure would not take much to send me over the edge.
I certainly do NOT see a light at the end of this tunnel. I am scared.

[genius]

60. Anyone could go belly up with a few bad circumstances

It's kind of scarey

[elehhhhna]

2. Creditors ALREADY have the right to challenge a personal Chapter 7.

They can (& some do)show up @ the hearing, contest the discharge of your debt (say it's a brand-new mink coat) and get their $ or property back. Small companies who extend credit (furniture stores, etc. ) do this frequently. MBNA doesn't find it cost-effective, so they don't do it.

This bill turns the courts into collection agencies. That's all.

[nashville_brook]

14. so, am i mistaken that this new bill ain't nothin new?

[elehhhhna]

16. Yes, mistaken. it puts CC co's on equal foooting with child support...

and forces most people into payment plans (Cahpter 13) which tend to fail, anyway.

[nashville_brook]

19. then what happens?

[FloridaPat]

31. They're back where they were before they filed for bankruptcy.

The cc can take their homes, salaries, etc.

[nashville_brook]

34. yeah, that was my point -- why put a happy face on it

as in "it's only chapter 13." as if nothing changes.

[blondeatlast]

3. Frightening thought: Bush and his cronies have already planned

to do away with the tax breaks for businesses that provide health insurance for employees; removing a very strong incentive for them to do so.

If you work for a middle to small business, declare NOW.

[nashville_brook]

7. how long can they shit where they eat?

small businesses are already bascially providing insurance in name only. at least any of the small businesses i worked for. it's madness.

[Mugweed]

75. I think they eat shit, so it's not a problem...

shitting where they eat, that is.

[Technowitch]

4. At the moment, not very. In the past? By inches, it seemed.

Basic healthcare ought to be a RIGHT, not just a privilege to those with good employer-provided insurance and/or wealth.

By the way, about those SUVs? Part of the new bankruptcy laws includes provisions such that you don't get to keep the vehicle if it's worth any significant amount of money.

[elehhhhna]

5. Here in TX you can keep one vehicle per person per household--

even if the people are minors. 4 in family? Keep 4 cars, SUV's and add a Pickup truck on top if you use it for work.

[alarimer]

23. What if you wrecked it?

I'm serious. If you can't keep your car, where is the incentive to keep it in good enough condition for them to be able to sell it when they take it from you?

[elehhhhna]

26. You could. They have to take it back in whatever consition unless

you reaffirm the debt and keep making payments. Good point.

[gizmo1979]

6. do to being laid off and rehired at 8.00 an hour less

I'am hanging by a thread.If this refi on the house doesn't go through that will be a last resort and i'll have no choice.I'am sure I'am not the only one in this boat.

[DU_ONE]

8. It's going to be real tough on the college grads

They already have college bills and debt plus credit cards . . . and they are just starting out in life . . . and the economy is bust, "HOBS" going overseas . . . the economy not creating middle class "HOBS" . . . maybe China, Japan and Korea will stop buying U.S. bonds . . .

[nashville_brook]

11. i had three jobs when i got out of school -- lived with roommates

well into my 30s. it was near impossible to make it. i can't imagine how difficult it would be now.

[nashville_brook]

9. we were there -- needing the refi to make ends meet

when i was in the hospital. thank GOD we were able to swing it!

best of luck to you! and if god forbid you have to take drastic measures, do so before this becomes law. as bad as it seems now, it can be so much worse!

[FloridaPat]

32. Don't refin your house to pay your unsecured debt. Most of the time

it doesn't work out. No point in trading unsecured debt for secured debt.

[AP]

48. People should tape this to their bathroom mirrors.

I know that credit card interest rates and fees are usorious, but to convert secured debt to unsecured debt (especially if you're reasonably sure that the money isn't going to appear to pay of the unsecured debt) is CRAZY.

Banks actually require this on a small level: when you refinance your house many lenders ask you to pay off your highest credit card. That's a nice little favor for the credit card companies.

[bunkerbuster1]

10. A few years back, I was hit with an illness that landed me in the hospital

for about a week. I had a good company-funded insurance plan that covered almost all of it.

Not any more. We're footing the bill insurance bill ourselves now; like you, we have ridiculously high deductables, and I'm sure we'll get socked in the groin if anyone in my family has to actually collect on it.

So to answer your question: Not that far. I'd hope I could move some of my assets offshore or someplace else where they couldn't be touched, but that's easier said than done, particularly when you (or a loved one) are busy fighting for your life.

Hear that, you 13 COWARDLY Democrats who voted "yea" on cloture? Hear that Hairplug Biden? hear that, Holy Joe?

[nashville_brook]

12. a 7,000 dollar deductible is hardly worth the monthly payment.

but what are you to do if that's your only option? what if you have kids?

[nookiemonster]

13. I'm there.

Granted, it's mostly my fault. Lived the good life at the end of the nineties from being able to have overtime anytime I wanted it. I ran up the cards, and here I am.

I don't mind working overtime but it's not happening now.

Sigh..... :-(

[elehhhhna]

18. do it now. before the rush. before you start spending your

(protected) 401K or Ira, etc.

[AzDar]

15. From the excerpts I've read re: the BK "reform", all but the independently

wealthy are going to be just one layoff,or major illness, or injury away from destitution.

I'm hoping some enterprising soul will read the legislation in it's entirety, and dash off a " how to beat the new draconian bankruptcy
laws" handbook!!! Now the credit card companies DESERVE to be screwed over, imo.

[madmark]

17. We have already started. But the debtors are going to have to pay us

more for the extra work. Some will not be able to afford the increased transaction cost and they will be frozen out. That part of the middle class gets fucked. Good job Senate. Good job MBNA Whores.

[bush_is_wacko]

20. Yes, this is how MOST bankruptcies occur.

One of my family members was bankrupted by AIDS before it killed her in the eighties and another member of my family has been bankrupt twice because of a chronic degenerative disease and yet another one of my family member's is getting pretty darn close to bankruptcy because of injuries he initially sustained in Vietnam and which he took no compensation for back then that have now led to MAJOR domino style injuries. He has two back fusions and is in chronic pain that has been unrelieved by EVERY surgery known to man for his conditions.

Right now, my family is alright. If one of us lost our job, we would have about 6 months at most to find a new job and medical insurance. We would have to pay cash for my medicine which is relatively inexpensive and hope like hell no one got sick because there is NO WAY we would be able to afford Cobra insurance for ANY length of time. An illness would deplete us pretty darn fast!

[nashville_brook]

21. Cobra is a cruel joke

like an unemployed person can afford what they charge!

[bush_is_wacko]

25. No shit!

I lost my job in August, with a husband in college and working full time in order to keep his benefits. He had taken a 55% pay cut over the previous 4 years so he wasn't making shit. Luckily, he had a job within 2 months of graduating in October, I found another job the month he graduated, and he only had to wait 2 weeks to get insurance. We debated paying for Cobra but it was almost as much as a house payment and I thought it was worth the risk of 2 weeks w/o insurance to keep that money in the bank.

This administrations economic policies are keeping people down and their new bills are designed to bleed them dry! I may have averted disaster but I am not stupid enough to believe EVERYONE gets that lucky. Often times employers find a reason to get rid of someone they think is ill. That starts the whole downhill cycle.

These people have NO VALUES! They care nothing for humanity. Only what lines their pockets.

[elehhhhna]

28. You have 30 days to accept or reject COBRA.

If you HAD been hurt in those 2 weeks, you could have paid the premium (as long as you hadn't declined) and been covered anyway. But nobody tells you that, now, do they?

[unblock]

70. it's actually 60 days to accept or reject cobra

but when you pay your premiums, it has to be retroactive to the date you lost your job.

[bush_is_wacko]

80. No! \as a matter of fact when we asked if we would be covered for those

two weeks we were SPECIFICALLY told not unless you purchased Cobra. It wouldn't surprise me if my husbands ex-employers did this. Thanks for that little tidbit though. Wish I had enough throw away money to go after the person that told my husband he needed to pay over $800 for the two week lapse in benefits! His old company has violated just about every employment law out there but they pay people shit wages so none of them will sue them!

[SemperEadem]

22. I thank God that I have a personal aversion to being tied down to anything

that includes a marriage, house, car note and credit card debt. That alone has saved me from what many of my contemporaries have to face: foreclosures, reposessions, garnishments. If I can't pay for it in cash, I don't need it; and I don't miss what I don't need.

[spooky3]

46. But don't forget, if you are renting you have NO equity to draw on.

Being tied down to a house at least means that in most cases you will have some assets to draw from if the worst happens.

And married people have a big advantage in that, while it's never good to get sick or lose one's job, when it happens to single people usually there is no one there to help or to work to pay the bills.

But I definitely agree that living small rather than large is a good idea.

[AP]

51. Even before the real estate bubble, a home was the best investment

a middle class person makes in their lifetime. It might not be the best 10-15 year investment a person who bought one between 1998 and 2005 meaks in their lifetime. But if you didn't own a house prior to 1998 (or you bought it after '98 don't sell it before the crash) then you probably have a significant opportunity cost in your lifetime that will make your retirement a little crappier.

[alarimer]

24. One injury or illness away

I think I am going to look into disability insurance, something to cover the bills if I ever get laid up. Or have they done away with that too???

[leftofthedial]

27. th-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-is

close

[DU_ONE]

29. What’s Wrong with H.R. 975, Let Us Count the Ways ...

The latest adaptation of the bankruptcy bill, H.R. 975 . . .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1647586

[FloridaPat]

30. I'm there. started the process in January. Thought I'd beat the rush.

[katinmn]

88. Smart.

Isn't there a teeny bit of satisfaction in knowing the greedy bastids won't get any more exhorbitant interest fees from you?

I know it's not much, but something.

Hang in there. You're doing the right thing for you.

[Toucano]

33. I can just about count the hours. n/t

[kineneb]

35. Talked to attorney today

She reviewed our finances and didn't offer much hope. Under Ch.7 we would probably have to sell the house and car, leaving us homeless, due to low income; or under Ch. 13 we would have to make payments of $300-500/mo. with my pitiful $18K/yr. We are screwed.

[elehhhhna]

36. Unless you have a mansion and a Hummer, you shoudl pm

"Liberal Historian" the DU paralegal who's offered top help DUers with BK advice. That info ( tho sketchy) doesn't sound accurate.

[nashville_brook]

82. try another attoney

we called a couple until we found one we were comfortable with.

i am so sorry for your situation.

[tavalon]

86. This doesn't sound correct

are you leaving out some details? Generally, if you can afford to pay for your house and your car, they cannot be taken away in Chapter 7.

[FloridaPat]

97. Depends on the state. One advantage to living in Florida.

[katinmn]

89. I agree-- try another attorney

Good luck to you.

[AP]

37. Why war on middle class? To create desperate employees who'll accept

less money to do more work.

And the right is pretty comfortable they can use the media's siren song to lure you to the rocks of consumption no matter how little money you have.

[FloridaPat]

98. They're the ones with the money but not enough to hire lawyers

and accountants so they can be shown how not to pay taxes. What happens when the middle class goes should be real intersting. I hope I don't have to see it.

[AP]

104. That's it exactly. My theory about democracy is that you only really have

it when a critical mass of citizens have enough money to hire a lawyer to protect their rights.

I'll expand that: you only have capitalism when a critical mass of small business people can afford good lawyers and accountants.

[nashville_brook]

102. talk about class warfare!

back to the post a couple of weeks ago -- it's the middle class with it's educated masses and wherewithal to stand up to the criminals running washington now. it's a preemptive strike.

[OneTwentyoNine]

38. No where near,I saw this mess coming five years ago...

While we haven't hidden out in a cave we started backing off on real major puchases by mid-2000. My wife wanted to either build a new house or move to a larger one--which we really do need but I said not now.

So..we battened down the hatches,keep the CC card down to no more than $500-600. Instead of starting in again with larger house payments for another 20-25 years we refinanced a couple of years ago at 5%. Three years from this May we make our last payment on this house saving us over $800 per month.

Never ever get in deep with Republicans in office. All you have to do is look at past history,it repeats over and over.

[madison2000]

39. I probably won't but its an option

I did it 7 years ago to get rid of credit card debts built up when I was unemployed.

In 2001-2002 I had 16 months of unemployment, 4 more last year. Now I have credit card debt which I can probably pay down in 3 years, but I have no assets... and don't have good enough credit or employment history to get a house. Most people my age are done paying for their homes.

I hate Bush.

[rniel]

40. This bill will backfire

Once americans realize what has happened. It is simply not being reported. They're only hearing....Michael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blakeMichael jackson, paris hilton, martha steward, robert blake

[KitchenWitch]

41. How and when will it backfire

I am afraid it will be too late.

[rniel]

42. I guess enough people will be in trouble

and go what happened. I thought I could file for bankruptcy. Duh!

They will finally start complaining.

At least I hope so.

[KitchenWitch]

43. Unfortunately rank and file complaining means nothing

to our current Congress and Administration.

[ClayZ]

78. Maybe when all the corners in the USA are crowded

with Homeless people waving "Hungry" signs! ARGH!

[ChiciB1]

44. I Hate To Admit It... But

I did actually file myself! A Chapter 13 due to having my credit stolen!! After finding out that a RELATIVE used my cards AND ran up a tremendous amount of debt I was forced to file.

Even though I opted on "13" which requires you to pay back 100%, it was an embarrassing experience. Just this past week I was able to pay off this bankruptcy early I was told that it would remain a "stigma" on my report! Even though the debt was incurred through NO fault of my own, when you tell creditors this they think you're NUTS!!

This is a very REAL problem and even though credit card companies have gotten rather hard nosed about this, it wasn't always so. Fortunately, we are retired and had a 401K that we contributed funds to, however you have to be a certain age to withdraw funds without paying that 10% fee for early withdrawal! It's a Catch 22 and this is also a heads up to those advocates of Personal Retirement Accounts that The Boy King EEIIDiot is touting!

So now, we withdrew funds which were tax deferred and now will be showing up as income on our 2005 income tax returns.

All I can say is that our Representatives are not "in touch" with the Average Joe out here!! I also know that many moneyed people come down here to Florida after filing bankruptcy and set-up a high-income lifestyle because Florida has a law that allows them to do so. I'm not sure what is involved, but I recall seeing a program on 60 Minutes that covered this issue.

Good Luck My Friends, this is a process I wouldn't wish on anyone barring the embarrassment, the other consequences can be debilitating too!

[AP]

50. You were the victim of a crime. It doesn't sound right that you should...

...have had to declare bankruptcy.

Aren't you only responsible up to a limit when someone else uses your card?

You should only be responsible for the contracts into which you enter. You (most likely) entered into a contract with the credit card company to be responsible for the first $50 of charges on your card by somoene other than you. As for those purchases -- you didn't make those. Those retailers didn't check the signature on the card. That's their problem, not yours.

If you filed Ch. 13 to protect a relative who screwed you over, I think you probably did your credit card company a much bigger favor than you did that relative.

[ChiciB1]

57. I Didn't Want To File...

criminal charges because of WHO the relative was, so yes I did do the credit card company a favor. They DID want me to file criminal charges, but it just wasn't something I could do given the circumstances of the individual.

There was a mental disorder involved and I just didn't have it in me to compound the problem. At any rate, a very stressful situation.

[American Tragedy]

62. Interesting, I was in a rather similar situation.

A mentally ill relative of mine has screwed me over as well. Although I'd devoted countless hours to helping them in every aspect of their life, they were just outraged that I wasn't willing to drop out of school, lose my health insurance, and declare bankruptcy in order to save them from their alcohol-induced excesses. Not to go into unnecessary details, but I spent about a year in personal and litigious hell.

It's easy to be framed or misrepresented in cases like this, because you don't take so many precautions. You never think that your family is going to turn on you, especially when you've done nothing to them.

[AP]

63. You told the credit card company you knew who used the card?

Why did you do that if you were so interested in protecting the relative? And why did you even talk to the CC co about it if your plan was to just keep paying until you had to declare bankruptcy? What was their response? Did they acknowledge that the debts weren't yours? Did they say they would press charges if you didn't continue paying?

Did your bankruptcy lawyer know that the credit card debt was caused by fraudulent charges?

[ChiciB1]

92. This Is Going To Sound Stupid...

but it was my understanding that by claiming bankruptcy, even Chapter 13, that I would NOT have to pay 100%!

Not until about 7 months into the filing did I realize I was paying 100%. When I went to the lawyer it was my understanding that the amounts would be decreased. And, not only that, I was the only one who filed, but they ended up adding my husband's name to the bankruptcy because they said I didn't make enough money to pay the monthly payments.

It was a REAL mess and I'll NEVER EVER EVER get caught that flat-footed again. And my lawyer didn't inform me of the fact that the bankruptcy trustee also got a 10% fee for handling the case!!! As a complete NOVICE, I simply "trusted" my lawyer. Now I think some of them simply will accommodate you and make it seem easy just to make money! I still think there are good lawyers out there who really want to be helpful, but then again as with medical lawyers, there are ambulance chasers!

I NEVER told the CC companies exactly who it was because they wanted me to prosecute.

No matter, MY BAD!! It's over now, but pain lingers!

[nashville_brook]

54. a home health nurse stole the credit cards of a friend's bedridden mother.

they have had nothing but bad luck up until the theft -- and now this. fixed income. having to pay off the cards. it's horrible.

[ChiciB1]

58. I Can Relate....

Unfortunately these things happen. I will say that when I decided to pay off the bankruptcy I did make an agreement to pay a lesser amount with the credit card companies. Had I not paid it off early I would have paid the FULL amount.

My attorney told me to negotiate with them, otherwise I would have never known they would take a lesser amount. That's another little tip that's useful.

[AP]

66. I would be EXTREMELY surprised if your friend were responsible for those..

...charges.

Most companies only make you liable for the first $50 in fraudulent charges. I believe others make you responsible only if your negligence caused the fraudulent use, and someone else's criminal activity pretty much indicuates that your friend wasn't negligent.

It SHOCKS me that people love their credit card companies so much that they're willing to keep paying them in order to ensure that they don't fall victim to a completely independent third party's criminal actions.

Do you think your credit card would voluntarily give you money to which you weren't entitled?

[nashville_brook]

71. yeah -- always a possibility --- altho in this case it's not what happened

the nurse had authorization to use a card with a real low limit. somehow she found another card with the BIG limit.

they might have figured negligence.

[AP]

72. Your friend needs to talk to a lawyer and to the DA's office.

At the very least, they shouldn't be paying for the charges to the card with the big limit, and if there must be an argument to make about the card with the low limit.

And if that nurse has a job, then your friend needs to sue her and get a judgment lien (or whatever it's called) against her wages.

[katinmn]

90. I don't know. An ex- boyfriend charged $8k on my

credit card and I only gave him the number to use because he called and said he was stranded and couldn't get home and could he please charge airfare on my card so he he could get home? (Yeah, duh, I know it was stupid.)

He started racking up charges faster than I could keep up with and block his use. He made payments directly to Discover, after acknowledging the debt to them, for about four months, then stopped. Started again. Stopped. Guess who got the hounding phone calls?

Of course the credit card company -- Discover-- is coming after me. Now there's interest on the bill. This happened in 2000!

The credit card people have a mantra: "Sorry, M'am. Nothing we can do."

I've been talking with a lawyer and will be filing a counter suit. Life sucks sometimes.

[serryjw]

95. You did a good job

if you REALLY want to re-establish credit go to your bank and get a secured card. US Bank offers one for $500 secured and it will be reported to all 3 agencies.

[FloridaPat]

99. Why did you have to pay if a relative ran up the bills? Also, the

lawyer I talked to, chapter 13 depends on how much you owe and how much you can pay. It's not an automatic 100% payback.

[ChiciB1]

45. I Just Posted My Info Here, But I Do Want To Say

that I HOPE this will PREVENT people who file "bogus" bankruptcies from doing so, such as I noted in my last post.

[FloridaPat]

47. There aren't "bogus" bankruptcies. A few people get credit cards

and spend to the limit and then don't pay. They really are in trouble. They put themselves there, but it is real.

Now these credit card companies monitor charging patterns. You would think they could spot this.

[ChiciB1]

61. Okay, I Got Some Info

about second homes that people come to Florida and build. They actually DID file bankruptcy in another state, probably Chapter 7 to keep from repaying. This may not be "bogus" per se, perhaps only dishonorable.

You are correct, "bogus" is the wrong word.

[K8-EEE]

49. Recommended: EVERYONE Is One Illness Away From It

Although now they won't be able to claim it even with catastrophic illness.

[nashville_brook]

52. i'm on my way to the pain clinic today

and it is always FILLED with people who weren't ONE ILLNESS away -- but one job-related injury away -- so many contruction workers with broken backs and no way to support their families. it happens in the blink of an eye.

[GreenPartyVoter]

53. Been there, done that. Hope never to go back again.

[nashville_brook]

55. OMG! wonderful avatar!

love the picture!

we were there too -- TEN years ago. failed business. lesson learned -- always incorporate. limited partnerships -- bad idea.

it is FINALLY not on our credit history. you'd be amazed what that did to our credit score!

[GreenPartyVoter]

56. Thank you. That was my mom's college yearbook photo. I can't wait

until our bankruptcy is off our credit score. A few more years to go. And we are building our credit back up carefully. Doing better all the time.

[ChiciB1]

59. I Was Told It Would Remain On

your credit score. Is there a way of removing it when you've paid it off???

I just paid it off so I'm sure it's not processed yet, maybe I'll just have to wait.

[GreenPartyVoter]

65. Well, here in Maine it seems that it disappears after 7 years (I think)

[ChiciB1]

93. I Filed Late In November 2003...

It's now early 2005, hardly 7 years and it's paid. I don't really KNOW what the law is here in Florida. The Trustee's office told me that it was good that it was paid, but that it would still be there.

However, she did say it would reflect that it was paid early, whatever that means!

Fortunately, I only have 10 years left to pay on my home, and we also own some other property here in Florida, plus we still have the 401K. We paid off our vehicles too when our money became available.

I hope I won't be needing any credit, but to my surprise I actually got another credit card!!!

Since I filed I let EVERYONE KNOW that I was credit defunct!

[nashville_brook]

67. our lawyer said "he had no idea" where the 7-year thing

came from. that he thought it might be biblical -- :)

it took ten years for us to totally get rid of it. we DID see an improvement at 7 years, but i think that had more to do with buying a house and paying off cars. but we did that with sub-par credit. our overall scores didn't improve until 10-years out. basically a month ago.

there's things you can do to "protect" your credit in the process of bankruptcy. we had a limited partnership business tank (who woulda figured east tennessee wasn't ready for a radical newspaper) and we only bankrupted the business debt. so, we kept the credit card and student loans (which you can't bankrupt, anyway). it sucked to go thru bankruptcy and still have a mountain of debt -- but i think that helped us, at least in the fact that we kept the credit card in case of emergency (which we had plenty). we weren't ready to buy a car for a few years (4 years out) and we had to take an outrageous car loan. but we paid it. then, we got screwed on the next car loan -- we could have done much better. it was an impulse buy. but we paid that off. we didn't even have any trouble buying a house (and got a great rate), 5 years out. we did an FHA loan before the rates went thru the floor. so it was still a good deal for the time. now -- hopefully we can refi with our sparkling new scores!

[Daphne08]

64. Never had to and hope we don't, but like so many others, we

are paying almost $400 a month (that's for me, the spouse- children are grown) for less than adequate health insurance. I remember the days when health insurance was routinely paid 100% by the company for the employee, spouse and children.

God, it's scary these days, and no one seems to even care about us any longer.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. I've been fighting going bankrupt since the bottom dropped out of...

...my self-employed technical recruiting business back in December 2000. Clients that had called me on an almost daily basis for help with their recruiting needs no longer called. After 911, my office phone became little more than a paperweight...it was as if the lines had been cut completely.

After incurring debts of nearly $250,000 trying desperately to keep my business afloat and still provide for my family, I now have to face the hard fact that I must do this to keep my family from having to deal with my debt for the rest of their lives. If I don't declare bankruptcy now, we stand the very real risk of losing the house and everything we own and have worked so hard to get over the years.

Wish me luck...I'm calling my lawyer this afternoon.

[MissB]

69. I will wish you luck

and I sincerely mean it.

[nashville_brook]

74. my heart goes out to you!

best of luck.

[elehhhhna]

85. Good luck--I headhunted, then

ran a staffing co in Chicago, and now I'm home with the kids...I know it was damned hard keeping your doors open. If you were in the biz for the last Bush recession, you'll recall that business double overnight when Desert Storm ended. The employment picture won't improve 'til this war BS is over. The demand is there but as you know, companies are afraid to do anything when things are unstable.

Good luck--this is NOT YOUR FAULT.

[katinmn]

91. Good luck to you. You've certainly fought it.

You deserve to get that off your shoulders.

[nookiemonster]

96. OMG, I'm so sorry,

n/t

[FloridaPat]

100. Best of luck. I'm another computer person who tried to set up a

business. Is it your business that owes or you personally?

[hippiechick]

73. Already been there and back.

I suspect if I'm ever close again (which I won't likely be because I've learned the evils of Credit Cards), thanks our dear Chimpinator and his minions, I'll be SOL.


'Are there no prisions ? Are there no poor houses ?'

:shrug:

[lala_rawraw]

76. Pretty close

I am 33 and sick with MCTD. I have health insurance that pays for far too little, which forces us to pay for a great deal. So yeah, should I get worse or anything else, we are done.

[Vinca]

77. Like you, I'm one illness away from losing everything.

Insurance has gone so high we can't afford it. We have quite a bit of equity in our home, but one serious illness would eradicate that. It's very, very frightening. I pride myself on paying my bills. The last time I bought a car, the people at the dealership were astounded at how good the credit rating was . . . honest. But here I am in this predicament. I don't see how they can pass a blanket bankruptcy bill that would make the lives of people suffering major illness even worse. Without universal health insurance, those of us without employer-funded plans are screwed. I've reached the conclusion that if I become ill I'm going to die rather than force my family into poverty. Welcome to Bushworld.

[nashville_brook]

84. the uninsured are like India's Untouchable Class

it puts you on such an uneven playing field that it needs to be its own category.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

79. I've been there,

Early in my business, I lost a major customer who was providing half my income. I was just keeping my head above water before that, and the loss of that customer pushed me over the edge.

The whole time I was struggling, I was beset with more and more credit card offers, two or three per day. Fortunately, I didn't take them, but the experience opened my eyes to the utter greed of those bloodsuckers.

[nashville_brook]

83. yeah, funny how they offer more credit after a bankruptcy!

happened to us too.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

103. My attorney told me that it was because the companies know

that you can't declare bankruptcy again for several years, so if you bite, they've got you securely hooked.

[CoffeeCat]

81. I grow concerned for many of my acquaintences...

My children are in a few playgroups--and we rotate hosting playgroup and going to playgroup at others' houses.

My husband and I opted to purchase a $150k condo and not buy the big house. We also paid off all debt and our cars--because we were concerned about *'s tactics and other economic indicators. We've been tempted to buy a big house (several times!), but instead we refinanced to 5 percent at 15 yrs.

I see the houses that my children's friends live in; most are 300k and up. I see the 2 brand-new $40,000 SUVs in the driveway. I also see the vast display of expensive furniture, toys, big-screen televisions and other trinkets all over the house. I don't judge these people. They are all very kind, lovely families. However, I do wonder--how are you guys paying for all of this??? Most of the women are stay-at-home moms, like myself. Maybe they're all independently wealthy (hey, more power to them!). Maybe this is none of my business.

However, it just seems like many people are living beyond their means, in an effort to compete with everyone else. It is very tempting to want to be like everyone else.

My husband and I aren't the smartest people alive! However, I'm really glad that we've avoid all of these trappings and that we are living within our means. Like many people, if my husband lost his job or if we had a major illness--there could be trouble. I don't take anything for granted.

I understand what * is doing to the middle class. I also know that high credit card debt and outrageous mortgages could lead to devastating circumstances--given *'s policies.

I grow concerned for people who may be living the high life when they really can't afford it.

[elehhhhna]

87. I opened an office in Texas fo a company & my employees were

puzzled as to why someone who made enuff $$ to keep her hubby home w/ 2 baby daughters would elect to drive a 9 year old, 100K mileage (clean as a whistle--looked new!) paid-off car. These new hires made about 24K/yr. (to start) and drove new SUVs, trucks, and cars.

When 2 of them got comfortable enough with me to ask about it, I asked them this question:
"If you had a choice between driving a decent, paid-for, reliable car while taking 2 trips to the carribbean a year...OR...driving a brand new SUV with a 500 to 600 dollar per month payment, and NO vacations...which would you choose? Don't tell me--because you already chose."

I think at least one of the young whippersnappers had her eyes opened that day.

We always, always lived beneath our means. But being screwed by an employer out of about 20K in owed compensation, then watching your entire business sector, nation wide, go to hell, can change things finance-wise very quickly.

[nashville_brook]

105. you speak a big truth! but for those "on the wheel" with the new cars

there's a couple of things going on: time is harder to come by than money; and security is something you buy.

if it's your "first time out" with the car-buying, you probably have more money than you are used to and waaaaay less time. for some, "vacation" and "leisure" have to be squeezed out of the minutes before work in the morning and falling into bed at nite. vacations (if you are lucky enough to have any vacation left after taking days off for sick kids) are driving X- hours to see the parents or spending a long weekend on the gulf coast. it's about not having time. SUVs play into this fantasy, i think, b/c they give the owner the illusion of leisure. if they wanted, they could *camp* every weekend. what a great family fantasy. but few commit to the camping trips. the SUV is used to carry groceries.

the security fantasy goes like this:
maybe the person drove a moldy hand-me-down or a clunker that broke down all the time. when you are poor and you have a crappy car, there is POWER in the argument that a new car won't cost you 500 bucks a couple of times a year because of repairs. i don't buy into this, but my husband does.

we bought our first new car after someone nearly ran my husband off the road in the rain. it was an old jeep cherokee and the brakes locked up and he hit his head pretty hard on the sterring wheel. he was so frightened he went out that weekend to get something with "modern" ABS and airbags. his motivation was that he deserved TO BE SAFE in a car. being poor was danergerous and being better off meant the luxury (illusion) of safety. for most people this illusion plays out with a big SUV b/c they think wrapping themselves with tons of metal makes them safer. a new yorker writer actually did a study of this and found that people equate the "security" of a car with how many cup holder there are.

i digress, but "leisure" and "security" are powerful memes.

i'm going to throw one other thing out -- some people LOVE cars (and hate to fly). our "vacations" since college have been all about taking care of ailing parents and will continue to be so for many years with my in-laws. we get time off and that's a chance to do "habitat for the family." if someone plunked us down on a deserted beach in the carribean we'd go NUTS with boredom. i'd already be nuts from the flight.

my husband is a CAR-lover. a motorcycle fanatic. he grew up poor and fantacized about cars. drew them on his notebooks. spent his youth SOBERLY racing around mountain roads and becoming a really good driver. and one who loves the thrill of driving. when we bought our first new car, our LEISURE and SECURITY translated into a convertible racer. put the top down and you are "on vacation." it had ABS and airbags -- so it qualified as "modern" -- it was a 10th Anniversary Miata 6 speed with extra-tight suspension and old style rims with low profile tires. Bose speakers. the night we bought it we both woke up at 2:30 in the morning and went outside to look at it in our pajamas. it was like a commercial. we were in love. with the car. it was a SLOT CAR! it "got on it" at 4500-5000 rpm, so it was exciting even just going to the corner store. it wanted challenging mountain roads and curvy on-ramps. it's the most fun you can possibly have behind the wheel.

nashville is a CRAZY place to drive, and counter-intuitively the miata was a great choice in terms of safety. the name of the game is to get out of the way of the other nuts on the road and leave a small foot print. i loved parking at the mall -- whipping into all kinds of tiny spaces the behemouths didn't even see. what a great car.

i think it's really important that no matter how you save or spend your money -- you do it for the right reasons. loving something is a right-enough reason to do anything. whether that thing you love is shell-hunting on an island once a year, or driving a hot car.

cars don't bankrupt people -- cancer does.

[T Town Jake]

94. Not very....

...but sincerely sorry to hear about your troubles, though. Take care.

[DuaneBidoux]

101. I can see a mass jump off a bridge as they cry "Fuck your $10,000,000"

One of the things that has made this such a dynamic economy is the ability of folks who get in trouble to make a clean slate of it. I am on a debt repayment plan for a business I started which thank goodness is now doing OK (not great, but enough to live and pay back the debt). But with this law it is no longer in the interest of any creditor to try to do anything other than bleed the person just close enough to killing themselves. If the economy gets bad I can see the following: hundreds and hundreds of people with HUGE balances all line up on the Golden Gate Bridge, they've calculated how much they owe and all 300 or so jump off holding hands and screaming "Fuck Your Fucking $10,000,000." That might wake up society, and it would make great TV. I know under some circumstances humans WILL resort to such behavior. Remember Jim Jones and the 700 who drank his Kool-Aid?

[nashville_brook]

106. i think we might even be able to come up with means of protest

that don't involve hari kari. but i get your drift.