Senator Clinton is trashed on both DU and FR

[bozeman]

Fuck, she must be doing something right.

[quinnox]

1. hehe, I know, it seems both extremes don't like her

May be a good omen for her chances.

[Warpy]

14. it's a great omen for her continuation

in her job as a Senator from a district rich in yuppies. I wish her all the longevity in that job tha she desires. I think she's an effective Senator for them.

She's just not gonna play real well in Peoria or any other working class area.

We need someone willing to tackle economic populism. Her husband did it, but I honestly don't think she's got a clue.

She's great where she is, though.

[iwantmycountryback]

52. She's a Senator, she doesn't have a district

She represents the entire state of New York. You don't think there's any working-class areas in New York? Do you seriously think that? She's pretty popular in the economically troubled North Country, which has a lot of Rural Republicans.

[Guaranteed]

24. Sure, all the Republicans and half the Democrats hating

her is great for her chances.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. But for different reasons!

[wyldwolf]

3. A moderate who has learned to apeal to the common people of both parties

To the hard left, she's a rightwinger.
To the hard right, a socialist commie feminazi.

[Trish1168]

7. I'm in the center and I still don't like her

She goes with the wind. I want a true lefty in the white house to undo W's damage.

[UdoKier]

23. Our reasons for seeing her as a rightwinger are 100% factual.

Their reasons for seeing her as a socialist commie feminazi are totally false and based on Limbaugh's repetitious rumourmongering.


She was a Goldwater Girl in the 60s. She was first lady to a president who was further to the right than Nixon. She is a right-winger.

[wyldwolf]

40. I would ask you to back up your assertions, but it's so subjective anyway

Like I've said to many before you who have made similar claims:

Hillary was a goldwater girl. Bobby Kennedy worked for McCarthy, Al Gore backed the Ashcroft faith based initiatives plan, Dean called himself a conservative in college and governed like one, Kucinich is really anti-choice and wants an amendment banning flag burning, Clark voted Republican, Nader is a union-buster, blah blah. If I had to list every Republican tie to today's Dems/liberals, I'd be posting all day.

How was Clinton further right than Nixon? (I've heard the "reasons" before so I won't be surprised.)

[UdoKier]

42. Clinton only slightly slowed down the GOP agenda in the 90s.

He did some good things, and some purely symbolic ones, but he signed NAFTA and welfare deform, kept taxes on the rich almost as low as they were under Reagan...


Hey, I'm not saying he did a bad job, I'm just saying he governed pretty much as a moderate republican. And Nixon was a fairly liberal repug on many issues.

[wyldwolf]

50. No, he governed like a moderate Democrat

NAFTA and welfare deform, kept taxes on the rich almost as low as they were under Reagan...

1. He ran on welfare reform and was voted in because of it.
2. Welfare reform has been a democratic tradition since FDR. FDR said, "The federal government must and shall quit this business of relief." Kennedy and LBJ had their own version of wefare to work programs.


You say he gave us NAFTA? Actually it was signed into law during Bush I's term. It was altered and refined during Clinton's tenure and like many things, it looked good on paper. Hind site is 20/20, folks.

Welfare reform? You bet! The idea was very popular with the American people at the time. Why? Because the public and the rightwing were intent on it. It was going to get done so thank whatever god you pray to Clinton was the president when it happened and GHW Bush wasn't. Clinton turned back several worse congressional versions before settling on a more moderate one.

We often criticize the right for "revising" history. It seems some on the LEFT dislike Clinton so much they ignore his vast accomplishments, sometimes denying they even happened, and overplay his hand in just few of their pet issues. Could it be that, just like the right, they can't stand that someone who isn't one of them could be so damn successful?

Actually, Clinton RAISED taxes on the rich and empowered the working class, which gave us:

The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965.

Extended Strong, Enforceable Patient Protections for Millions of Americans.

An environmental budget that included a record $1.4 billion for Lands Legacy -- a 93 percent increase and the largest one-year investment ever requested for conserving America’s lands.

So how is that to the RIGHT of Nixon?

[bozeman]

44. You keep accusing me of being a troll??? Look at what you write!

"She was first lady to a president who was further to the right than Nixon. She is a right-winger."

It leaves me speechless.

[UdoKier]

45. Why should facts make you speechless.

Are you saying that Clinton was a liberal?

That would be a good one. He is a lot of things, but not a liberal.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

51. I'm saying he was a liberal. What "facts" do you speak of?

[w4rma]

4. Hilary Clinton was a Wal-Mart board member who supports policy that

has helped that company put small buisnesses out of buisness while shipping our manufacturing industry to China.

The folks at Free Republic dislike her for other reasons, however.

[revolution now]

5. she is pulling to the right

The pubs hate her because they see this as a tactic to appear more "moderate" in time for the 08' primaries...They are still terrified of her.

DU'ers don't like it because they don't like the right...and don't really care about her strategy this early in the game. ;)

[Alpharetta]

9. I see her as "triangulating" too

And I don't like it.

Her vote on the Iraq War Resolution looks to me like triangulation.

[leyton]

6. That is the right-wing strategy...

If I can plug my thread :) I started a topic here in C 2006/2008: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=108x119833

the Republicans have put us in a quandary. Their strategy is to tell us that we want Hillary badly - I remember reading a column last summer predicting that we would have a brokered convention where we would dump Kerry in favor of Clinton. And that pisses me off, because it suggests that we blindly follow the Clintons, when in fact I'm looking forward to an excellent field of candidates in four years.

But it also forces those of us who want to fight that notion of Hillary's inevitability to argue about why we shouldn't nominate her. It forces us to criticize one of our party rock stars (more than we should), and while I know Sen. Clinton is not popular here, it is kind of messed up when you think about it: why should Democrats at DU have to join the chorus of Republicans dissing Hillary? Why should we have to echo them?

[Mandate My Ass]

8. Now there's an original observation

[leftofthedial]

10. as would any Dem be who was pretending to be a repuke

[AntiCoup2K4]

11. Or Repuke pretending to be a Dem, as the case may be

And with Hillary it's hard to tell which.

[T Town Jake]

12. Amazing, isn't it?...

...I agree: though I don't know about freeperville, I've noticed the general right-wing bile against her on the Internet. And the bile hereabouts against her, also, from some quarters. Interesting.

[BlueManDude]

13. She needs to bow out of any race for the presidency

It's forcing her to make blantantly political manuevers that are so obviously calculated to appeal to the "middle" that it's embarrasing. A run for the presidency will likely sink her in NY. Why vote to re-elect a Senator who's gonna spend their second term running for Prez. She's playing a foolish game.

[doodadem]

17. I hate being told by the MSM and Repug Party

that Hillary Clinton WILL be the Dem party candidate for prez in '08. They've already made up our minds for us! Hillary is a one-term senator for gawdsakes! Other than having a great husband, how does that qualify her as presidential material?
If we allow the media to make our choices for us again, we might as well throw in the towel now, because Hillary is a lightening rod for division in this country.

[Kimber Scott]

15. Extremists can't win elections in this country. Not fairly, anyway. nt

[UdoKier]

What are you talking about? Bush won.

Okay, not fairly, but the congress is packed with extreme right-wing republicans as well as a significant number of right--wing democrats.


You should say that extreme left-wingers cannot win in this country. Outside of Berkely, anyway.

[Guaranteed]

21. *slaps forehead*

Yup. :)

[walldude]

16. While I don't dislike her

I don't see any way she could be elected President. If we live long enough to see an election in 08' we need a candidate who actually has a chance of winning. The media already hates her, and the right wing attack machine will be in full war mode. You can bet if she runs the first thing the RW will do is drudge up Vince Foster and the "suspicions" surrounding his "suicide" and her alledged affair with him... Would like to see a woman President though..

[stray cat]

18. Maybe she could win in 2008

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bozeman]

22. I'm not 'loyal to the Likudniks'

WTF?

[UdoKier]

27. You've already forgotten your "Israel" flamefest?

Man, you have a short memory...

[bozeman]

29. I like Israel (BFD)

I'm not Likudnik. I want the Palestinians to have their own state. I think Israel needs new leadership.

But I still dig Israel.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bozeman]

39. I wasn't outed

All I did was expose a bunch of knee-jerkers.

[Mandate My Ass]

41. Knee jerk. You mean like this?

"I think we can conclude that many on DU hate Israel and employ absurdist rhetoric when talking about it."

[UdoKier]

43. Heheh.

Yeah, I objected to his thread, and I love Israel. My best friend is Israeli and another good friend is living in a Yeshiva there right now as we speak. I grew up having Shabbat dinner at their house almost every week, and yet, I am an "Israel hater" because some flame-meister says so? LOL.

[bozeman]

46. That was after a huge flamefest

That's not kneejerk, that's learning from experience.

This is kneejerk: "She was first lady to a president who was further to the right than Nixon. She is a right-winger."

Your little buddy posted that further up this thread.

So who's 'outing' who here?

[OneMoreDemocrat]

20. So too is the MSM........

which never ceases to amaze me.

[Dr Ron]

25. No surprise

Free Republic regularly trashes every leading Democrat.

Democratic Underground regularly trashes every leading Democrat.

Why should Hillary be any different?

[Mandate My Ass]

26. This is flamebait

He's got two of them going in this forum now and he had a humdinger going this morning in GD.

Don't fall for it.

[Guaranteed]

30. It's alright. We all know Hillary can't win- precisely

for this reason.

She's standing in the middle of the road.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bozeman]

34. Many a truth was spoken in flamebait

But this isn't flamebait, and neither was my other thread in GD. I just put forth an opinion and got some feathers ruffled. Sometimes it's good to rock the boat a bit. Although I must say that first thread I was not expecting it, at least not the level of flaming.

[UdoKier]

36. Posting flamebait is against DU rules.

Not that we aren't all guilty of doing it now and again. It takes most people longer than 40 posts to start their first flame war.

[MissB]

49. At least point it out to the mods, if you haven't already

The alert button and all that.

[Career Prole]

28. What puzzles me is

how this thread had two "Greatest" votes within minutes of starting.
At that point it wasn't even a thread, it was still a boll.
:wtf:

[bozeman]

31. I don't understand the 'Greatest' thing

[Career Prole]

37. No doubt they'd intended to click 'reply' and clicked

"Recommend Topic for Greatest Page" by accident. That dual initial "Re..." must've thrown them.
Surely no one would recommend apparent flamebait for the "Greatest" page intentionally.

[Guaranteed]

32. I'll give you a hint- It's three letters.

:)

[Career Prole]

38. I'm only coming up with four-letter ones...

Can I buy a vowel? :7

[Moderator]

53. Locking

This has turned into a flamefest.