ABB- You can't go wrong (in the right forum this time)

[Wetzelbill]

Look at the frontrunners. Out of Kerry, Edwards, Dean and Clark, I don't see one person who I would have any qualms voting for next November. As sure as, I will be proud to vote for Kucinich next month I will be proud to vote for him - looks unlikely not that I won't plug away for my guy - or anybody else.

Moreover, none of these candidates are perfect, but they all have good things to say and good ideas they plan to enact. Much better than the Republican alternative that's for damn sure. I don't agree with lots of things our candidates say. But I do agree with most of what each one offers up as well.

A great group, imho.

[wryter2000]

1. I agree

And I hope they take full advantage of all the good ideas all of our candidates have expressed.

ABB in '04

[Atman]

2. I'm firmly behind anybody but Bush...

In fact, I posted two new designs the night of the caucuses, just to show my enthusiastic support of "our guy," whomever the heck it is.

.

[Wetzelbill]

5. Nice! I like the Very Kerry one, never saw that before

[Atman]

8. They're both my own designs

I sell 'em on my web site.

[lovedems]

3. I'll drink to that!

:toast:

[FreeperSlayer]

4. ABB!!!!!

Bush out!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Dean, yes. Clark, maybe. Edwards and Kerry, hell no.

If two pro-war sellouts like Kerry and Edwards are the best the Dems can offer..then it's Green for me.

[Uzybone]

7. Then you must be supporting

Kucinich or Sharpton. If not your "pro-war" smear is meaningless.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. Smear? You must have missed Kerry's and Edwards' votes for the IWR.

How do consider that a smear? Their cowardly votes for the war aren't going to go away. They're going to be brought up over and over, not just by the opponents of the war like me, but by the repugs if either of them should win the nomination.

As for Sharpton or Kucinich, I'd love to vote for either of them in the GE. Hell, I'll probably even vote for Clark if he gets it.

But the two collaborators will never get my vote.

[emulatorloo]

11. Nobody was for the war but GWB, none of the top 4

It is George Bush's fault, it is his project and he did everything he could to convince people that Saddam was a threat, including Top Secret briefings to the Senate with his specious evidence. IWR was not about rushing to war on specious evidence, which is what GWB did. If you beleive that President Edwards or President Kerry would have taken us into this war, then you haven't done enough research.

Don't like hypotheticals? While I don't believe that President Dean would have taken us into this war either, his alleged vote against IWR is purely hypothetical.

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to write "President Dean" "President Kerry" "President Edwards"!

[AntiCoup2K4]

19. "President Kerry" would have definitely taken us into this war

on the advice of his good buddy Will Marshall of PNAC.

As far as the DLC talking point of "nobody voted for the war" constantly repeated here, that is an out and out lie. According to the Constitution, it is the responsibility of Congress to declare war if and when neccessary. Through the IWR, Congress (i.e. Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman, among far too many others) surrendered that responsibility to the unelected lying piece of shit occupying the White House, before a single piece of evidence was produced to justify such a war. Whatever rationalization you try to spin it with, that's what happenned. They could have prevented the war and refused to do so.

[library_max]

21. The IWR was not a declaration of war.

It authorized the president to go to the U.N. and make certain demands. That's it.

The idea that the Senate should have instinctively known that Bush was lying is 20/20 hindsight related to:
A) Investigations and reports which have only recently become available,
B) The rather extreme political viewpoint of DU (which I share, but most of the country doesn't), and
C) The arrogant and unbelievably horrible direction Bush has taken this country in since the vote.

Anybody can predict the past, and anybody can make up alternate realities that never happened. The accusation that if Kerry had been president he would have invaded Iraq is without substance or support. The proof that President Clinton wouldn't invade Iraq is that he could have and didn't. Are you saying Kerry, who opposes the war, is less anti-war than Clinton, who's been defending it?

[Wetzelbill]

10. right because Dean has never supported a war before

[stuzzy]

12. Whatever

I cannot in good conscience vote for someone who voted for the war. Period. Dean or Clark or it's the "throw away vote" for me.

[Wetzelbill]

13. Childish

Those who act like they are taking the "anti-war" highroad might as well cast a vote for Bush. If you really believed in the anti-war issue than you'd vote for Sharpton or Kucinich.

I'm voting for DK.

[PVnRT]

14. So

you'll take four more years of Bush, worsening conditions in this country for the poor and middle class, an eroding enviornment, further strained relations with allies and more outright enemies abroad, the elimination of legal abortion, and so on, because of one vote?

Tell me, do you think we'll ever get our troops the hell out of Iraq if Bush wins again in November?

[AntiCoup2K4]

20. Sure will get em out of Iraq.

....and into Syria, and Iran, and Pakistan, and Lebanon, and every other country in the middle east except the two that are actually sponsoring terrorism. (Here's a hint: One of them has a lot of oil, and the other isn't an Arab country.) This is the plan of a continued PNAC administration. And Bush isn't the only frontman they could use. They have two candidates on "our" side, and one of them's doing pretty well at the moment :(

[Adjoran]

15. Amen, Brother!

Tell it! Tell it!

This is going to be tough race, as we have already seen. The gloves are off, and that's natural because the stakes are so high.

We just need to remember that this is a scrimmage. We need to fight hard, but try not to permanently injure one another, because the big game is this fall.

[Lizz612]

16. Yay!

They're all SO much better than the alternative! And look at it this way, whoever comes out of this will be that much stronger for all this shit they have gone through. Bush has been handed life on a silver platter and was hand picked. Our guys (since they're all men now) have fought HARD for where they are and will fight even harder to get the chance to show Bush for what he really is (a fucking profiteering war monger). Sure none of them are perfect but then again neither are any of us.

I trust any one these guys a hell of a lot more than the puppet thats in there now!

[Logansquare]

17. Dean supporter and ABB

I hope all of this "my guy or nothing" stuff will die down by nomination time.

[Wetzelbill]

27. Sanity is a good thing to have

[library_max]

18. Excellent post.

:kick:

[sleipnir]

22. I respectfully disagree...

I've launched into one too many flame wars over ABB vs Non-ABB, but solid to say, I'm not ABB and never will be. There's one candidate I'd never vote for. IMO, ABB a DLC creation to us Dems to vote for their handpicked candidates and ignore lesser candidates or Washington outsiders.

[Walt Starr]

24. BRAVO!

NBD

[library_max]

25. So what do you propose to do in the general election

if that "one candidate" is the Democratic nominee? Vote for Bush? Stay home? Vote Green? Turn Blue? Any of the above just helps Bush get four more years. Recognition of that fact is the only point behind ABB.

And if your "one candidate" is Lieberman, breathe easy. He doesn't have any chance at all.

[sleipnir]

30. Breathe easy then...

n/t


If it did happen, I'd write-in another candidate

[Walt Starr]

35. ABB is a ruse to get me to hand over my choice

I won't hand over my vote no questions asked.

[HuckleB]

36. Hogwash.

How can you hand over your choice? You have the choice to vote to make a difference in this country or to feel pure about your vote. Do what you will, and I will call it what I will. That's my choice. Your fellow citizens count on you to be responsible. We are all in this together whether you like it or not.

[Walt Starr]

37. Saying you are ABB is sto say the following

"Hi Mr. Democratic Party big shot. I really don't care who the hell you put on that ballot thingie, they'll get my vote just because you put the lil (d) behind their name.

I won't say that. My vote is earned and I can see a lot of the present candidates who have absolutely no shot at earning my vote.

[HuckleB]

41. Wrong.

It's saying I've looked at our candidates, and I know that every one of them would make a huge and positive difference in this country compared to four more years of Bush.

That's what it is saying. It is saying that I care about my country and my fellow citizens, and I won't allow myself to succumb to notions that there is a pure candidate out there. I wlll act to make a real difference. Please try to grasp that.

[Wetzelbill]

28. so who is the one candidate?

[HuckleB]

32. Sorry.

This "ABB is a DLC creation" is just not holding up. It sounds like an excuse to allow oneself to vote for the "pure" candidate, consequences for our fellow citizens be damned if Bush gets back in office. Ignoring the reality of what would happen if Bush wins is simply incomprehensible.

The reality of the primaries is that most of us will not see our favorite candidate get the nomination. We simply aren't going to get our way all that often. It doesn't mean we can't make a difference, however. To fail to make that difference reaks of a form of fundamentalism.

[sleipnir]

38. I don't think Lieberman is much of an improvement, PLUS

Now the Dems will get blamed for all of his right-wing leaning policies.

I want a real Dem not some shadow Republican.

It won't take long for the Neo-Cons to cozy up to Lieberman. He's no Dem, just putting a "D" besides your name doesn't get you my vote. You have to earn it.

It's a shame that people will compromise their ideals because someone tells them to, or they don't want to fight and would rather just blindly follow the party. It's exactly that kind of attitude that got us Bush. The DLC thought they could give us any old candidate and we'd vote for them. Well, guess what, they're trying to make the same mistake again and I'm not going to take it this time.

[HuckleB]

40. After the last four years, I don't know how anyone could say that.

This would be a very different country, even if Lieberman were president. I am no fan, but I also know the difference between him and Bush is much larger than many would like to believe, simply because it's not as large as we would like.

[Terwilliger]

23. Lyndon LaRouche? How about John Buchanan??

http://www.buchanan04.blogspot.com/

[library_max]

26. Adolf Hitler? Jack the Ripper?

Oh, wait a minute, they're not on the Democratic primary ballots either.

[sleipnir]

31. LaRouche IS on the ballot and a Registered Dem

People forget this fact, but YES, LaRouche is running on the Dem ticket and he's going to be on the ballot in several states, that don't exclusively require signed petitions.

So, ABB also applies to LaRouche....

[Terwilliger]

39. ADB then....cut that ABB shit

Any Democrat Against Bush is NOT ABB

[HuckleB]

29. Yup. If we defeat Bush, the next president will be more than worthy

of the job.

[Northwind]

33. False

Of that group, only Dean is acceptable.

Nominating any of the others is equivalent to voting for Bush.

NBD '04

[HuckleB]

34. I'm a Dean supporter, and that statement just doesn't hold water.

All of the Dem candidates are a huge improvement over Bush. All of them would greatly improve the lives of our fellow citizens in the U.S. and the world.