Is anyone else surprised that violence has not erupted yet?

[KansDem]

Now, this is NOT an invitation to incite a riot or turn to violence, but, I have been baffled at why (how?) there hasn’t been violence erupting all over the country.

Consider what went on in the 1960s and 1970s: anti-war sentiment and the demand for civil/equal rights pushed progressives to protest and demonstrate. Amid these events anti-establishment violence took place. Remember the bombings of BoA and other establishment symbols? Remember confrontations with police (1968 Democratic convention) and the Kent State killings?

Compare that to now (no particular order—just typing off my head)

1) Election fraud in 2000 and 2004
2) Attempted anthrax assassination of Democratic senate leaders with lack-luster investigation
3) US president lies and deceives America into war.
4) US president ignores numerous warnings of impending attacks on US soil
5) US president does nothing while 3,000 Americans die from attack.
6) US president tries to suppress investigation into why 3,000 Americans died from attack.
7) CIA operative exposed by representatives of US president
8) GOP attempts to gut Social Security
9) National debt spiraling out of control
10) America becomes nation of torturers and killer of civilians
11) Paid GOP shills acting as “journalists”
12) GOP deceives public about social programs (i.e. Medicare, Social Security)
13) GOP trashes reputation of veterans (McCain, Clelland, Kerry…)
14) US Supreme Court aligns itself with GOP interests.
15) Bush Family “in control” of nation for past 25+ years.
16) Erosion of civil, worker, and consumer rights
17) Assault on the environment (ANWR, "sound science")
18) "Intelligent design" becomes part of science
19) US becomes aggressor nation and invades sovereign country for it natural resources
20) US borders on fascism as government and corporations unite

I mean, I could go on and on but what will it take? These points are just what I was able to type out in just a couple of minutes; there’s a whole lot more. And each one can be further divided into many areas of concern (just “election fraud” alone brings up questions of cheating and disenfranchisement based on socio-economic status, race, age & gender, region, etc).

So, anyone else here at DU baffled as to why the nation hasn’t “risen up” to confront these injustices and put a stop to the evil corruption that now oozes from all facets of society?

[BrklynLiberal]

1. Kind of....Ukraine seems to have had more gumption than we did.

[Stand and Fight]

2. Baffled? Yes. Do I have an idea why not? Yes.

It is all in the concept of a free and non-corporate dominated press. The press has undergone a radical change since 9/11. Don't let anyone tell you it is all on account of the tragedy of 9/11 either. The people are apathetic, ignorant, and frankly uninformed. They watch the news but they do not take it in and therefore they do not think critically about what they are witnessing. The superficial has become the curtain behind which we hide our fears of facing a very ugly reality - our enemies are not just across the wide expanses, they're in the fucking walls like termites and the whole house is threatening to fall in on our heads unless we take swift justice to root out the pest.

[Just Me]

25. The people have been pacified by the "Concentration Camp of the Mind"

There is a slow awakening happening, though. I am watching a movement that is growing faster than ever in my lifetime (of course, I was just a child during the last great social/civil upheaval of the 60's and early 70's).

They can't hide reality forever.

[Kazak]

3. It's a darn good question...

and one that often puzzles me as well.

:shrug:

[Demit]

4. well, in the 60s there was a much larger group of youths: the baby boomers

So the antiwar movement could tap into the natural rebellion that kids go through anyway. And the draft was in place already, so there was something concrete to resist; it was very tangible what would happen to these kids because of government policies.

At the moment most things in your list are still in the abstract for a lot of people. Their lives aren't immediately touched by them--indeed, if they even are aware of them.

Finally, it's tragic, but I think a lot of people have bought into the concept that "9/11 changed everything"--so they instinctively put anything that sounds bad into the framework of that concept.

I do think, though, that people are at least starting to get uneasy. They know something's off-kilter, even if they don't know what or why. I think this feeling is growing, and will manifest some way. Maybe the Social Security thing is the beginning of eyes being opened.

[Chipper Chat]

8. "Godfather Reagan" still has a hold on the country.

The 'Murkan People were so duped by his calm and assurance, and it has continued thru the reign of the bushies. The GOP has prostituted the word "patriotism." That alone has caused a lack of challenge to their dogma. No one has the courage to bolt. Soon it will be too late - thanks to the upcoming Patriot Act 4 you can be thrown into jail just for criticizing the government. What did they used to call that? Naziism, communism, facism, totallitarianism? Look around; it's almost here.

[trudyco]

5. Media is the key

All the lack of news, or slanted news, is mind boggling.

Maybe a draft will get the younger set to get out.

I am shocked and awed.

[BrklynLiberal]

9. Two excellent points The slanted media and the lack of a draft.

[Nimrod]

6. Humans contribute happily to their own control

It's our nature, and as the population has grown it has become more and more prevalent. We can expect this trend to continue. I've been saying for a long time, it is going to take something ENORMOUS to trigger an open rejection of the society we've built for ourselves. It's highly possible it may take intervention from another nation.

[KoKo]

7. Here's a theory....Mellon-Scaife and the RW Control..

The country has "Clinton Fatigue." Brought on my the most scandalous "hunting of a President" in our history. RW exposed American public to the most intimate details of Clinton's sex life for years. RW Media then takes over and folks are just sick of it all. They don't want to hear about anything...they just want it all to go away. So, media is happy to give them what they want.

Bush a former addict and draft dodger, involved in crooked stock schemes
with his Poppy's buddies, lies about 9/11, lies about Iraq, lies about everything, and folks can't get outraged without Roger Ailes cast of characters whipping up support for outrage.

Most Americans didn't get what Watergate was about either. But at least back then we had a few decent folks in Congress. But without control of one branch of congress and strong support in the Television Media...people just don't give a damn, and no one's going to help them rekindle a sense of outrage over the screaming Chimp and his cronies raping the country. :shrug:

[prairierose]

10. Most Americans are too busy.....

working more than one job. I do recognize that many people are working very hard to survive. I try to give them the benefit of the doubt. or

watching corporate media and still think it reports "news" (news being important issues that affect our daily lives or something that resembles truth) or

too busy watching the latest "reality show" on the teevee or football or ... pick any piece of crap on tv

But yes, I too wonder whwere the rage is. There are very few (read none) peace protests/marches here. I would go out sometimes for that if I knew about them.

But what I see when I try to talk to my students about some of these things is:
1 Their eyes glaze over & ....
2 They think I'm crazy and mean to bring this up
3 Many of them are good little dittoheads who want me fired

[jswordy]

11. No, not surprised...here's why...

Don't flame me, please, but here's how it is seen...

1) Election fraud in 2000 and 2004 -- Minimal this year, compared to the number of votes cast. It has been far worse in our past.

2) Attempted anthrax assassination of Democratic senate leaders with lack-luster investigation -- Oh well. Shit happens. They were playing it up for political gain.

3) US president lies and deceives America into war. -- Yeah, and that hasn't happened before? Besides, most believe him that it wasn't his fault he lied. He had bad info.

4) US president ignores numerous warnings of impending attacks on US soil -- Why shouldn't he? He's the one WHO MADE THEM UP! They are just trying to keep us safe.

5) US president does nothing while 3,000 Americans die from attack. -- Hey, we all were in shock then. Cut him a break. He did later invade Afghanistan AND Iraq -- a twofer!

6) US president tries to suppress investigation into why 3,000 Americans died from attack. -- Naaaaaw. Did he do that?

7) CIA operative exposed by representatives of US president -- Says who? We don't know that for sure.

8) GOP attempts to gut Social Security -- They are trying to HELP US!

9) National debt spiraling out of control -- Outta sight...outta mind, dude!

10) America becomes nation of torturers and killer of civilians -- So how has that changed from our past history? Not a bit. They hate us, we torture and kill them. Next...

11) Paid GOP shills acting as “journalists” -- Yeah, everybody deserves to make an extra dollar. It's the American way!

12) GOP deceives public about social programs (i.e. Medicare, Social Security) -- Says who?

13) GOP trashes reputation of veterans (McCain, Clelland, Kerry…) -- So? This has been done before in politics. Move on...

14) US Supreme Court aligns itself with GOP interests. -- Yes, it has always been a political court. Used to be liberals had it.

15) Bush Family “in control” of nation for past 25+ years. -- We like 'em.

16) Erosion of civil, worker, and consumer rights -- And that has affected me how?

17) Assault on the environment (ANWR, "sound science") -- Looks like wildlife is out there everywhere to me.

18) "Intelligent design" becomes part of science -- So yer saying it was dumb design in reality?

19) US becomes aggressor nation and invades sovereign country for it natural resources -- Uh, ever hear of the Native Americans? Old news.

20) US borders on fascism as government and corporations unite -- They have always been united. Our country was founded on advancing its commercial interests.

[Stand and Fight]

13. I'm gonna flame you if you are serious...

Because if you are serious, your apathetic "so what" attitude is the very root of the problem. Want to talk about real patriots who love their country? Well, if you're serious in your "statement," then you most definitely are a treasonous knave.

[jswordy]

16. Geez, over-reaction...yer ready to flame cuz you didn't read my intro...

...or misread it. Sigh. So much anger, so quick to lash out. It's kinda sad.

[Stand and Fight]

22. I gotcha..

But do be mindful of the fact that I said, "if you are serious," so it was not altogether a thoughtless reaction... Nonetheless, you are absolutely right, because while reading your post I was thinking, "Man this guy thinks like the assholes at work!" So, you hit the nail right on the head! Bravo jswordy!!!

[Nimrod]

17. Like it or not, that was extremely accurate

of the thought process of the "average American". Try talking to one and you'll see.

Bravo jswordy.

[jswordy]

19. Nimrod, I think a stumbling block is that...

...we never stop to think about how they think. All we think about is how to trash them.

Thanks for the post.

[cidliz2004]

34. If your worried about your: Job Security, SS benefits, Health bills,

how could you really pay much attention to International affairs?

If we all are too preoccupied with preserving our lifestyles (family, home, children) how much attention can we actually give to Patriot Act, Country's Deficeit.... They are keeping us so busy at "home", most don't have the time or inclination to look at much else. Kind of a parental tactic with children, distract them/us from the REAL issues.

[BrklynLiberal]

15. If you believe everything you just wrote, why are you here?

[jswordy]

18. SIGH -- I didn't say I believe it, I said "here is how it is seen..."

Sigh....and that is indeed how it is seen, by a LOT OF FOLKS.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. oh.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Here is an excellent post about why a draft would be a great idea.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3211365&mesg_id=3211592&page=

[BrklynLiberal]

14. Alternate version - only in paragraph placement for clarity. WORTH READING

This answers a lot of the questions raised above.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3211365&mesg_id=3212135&page=

[Padraig18]

20. Percentagewise, not many took to the streets in the '60s and '70s.

As to why even that small percentage has not done the same today, I don't know.

[tom_paine]

21. No, the Imperial Subjects of Amerika are READY for Virtual Slavery

We have gone from the people who defeated Hitler to the people who let Hitler gain power in less than one individual's lifespan of time.

Sad, sick and pathetic.

I am not baffled by this, no more than I was baffled when reading the Rise and Fall of Nazi Germany about the Germans uinyielding nature.

The Imperial Subjects of Amerika, most of them (us) will make excellent Soviets, excellent neighborhood Spies, Camp Guards, and Good Germans who ignore the unpleasant truth.

After living in Imperial Amerika for the four plus years since it's founding, nothing surprises me in the least about what we'll take, and what we'll do when our Godless Bushevik Masters tell us to and point us at the necessary scapegoats.

Which WON'T be racially-based. Get it? ANYONE can be an Uppity Negro, circa 1938 Mississippi,. and be treated accordingly by the Empire...it isn't limited to a racial group like Jews or African-Americans as it was in the past.

Who says we aren't making progress?

</sarcasm off>

[DemocracyInaction]

24. Was wondering the other day why the ghettos weren't burning

anymore. Yes, the 60's were my era and here's why I think things are so calm. People today are mega entertained and dumbed down by it which wasn't at that level in the 60's. The news media wasn't this glitzy tripe and propaganda. It was straight up news. And today, no one, anywhere in this nation will be able to get far enough to get a large group of people upset and ready to rock. They will get 'disappeared' first.

[hansolsen]

26. As a nation we are too "fat and happy". The gov't ensures cheap beer,

abundant food, mass entertainment, and the the resurgence of organized religion - the opiate of the masses. Throw in a little "yellow journalism" pumping up patriotism, launch a permanent war against "evil doers" that would make George Orwell spin in his grave, and you have a fine formula for apathy.

Things will need to get much worse for the apathy to abate. It is just a fact of life.

[BigBearJohn]

27. I agree. I posted a similar threat yesterday. The country must be asleep.

[BigBearJohn]

28. What is it going to take before people wake up?? I'm stupified.

[LdyGuique]

29. I, too, have been surprised to some degree. . .

however, the poltical and social climate in the 60s/70s was somewhat different. If one were going to use "six degrees of separation," most of these issues were within two degrees:

1) Student unrest. One of the memorable periods of agitation began with the http://www.fsm-a.org/#happened">Free Speech Movement (FSM) which began on the Berkeley campus, lead by Mario Savio in the fall of 1964. This was primarily in opposition to the conservative policies of the California University Board of Regents and how little control students had over their destinies or the content of their classes. http://www.fsm-a.org/stacks/GradStudentReport.html">The Berkeley Free Speech Controversy is an excellent recap of the tensions that escalated into violence and eventually swept the nation's universities and colleges. At root cause was virulent anti-Communist sentiments and ongoing investigations into "pinko" professors, etc.

Scholars often dispute when the Sixties began. In California the Sixties began in 1960. The two pivotal events for California students were the anti-segregation sit-ins begun by students in Greensboro, North Carolina in February, and the anti-HUAC protests in San Francisco in May. Bay area students mounted sympathy pickets in response to the first, and turned out by the thousands for the second. These were not the first student protests, nor the only issues of concern that year, but they were a vast escalation over what had gone before. They highlight what were the two chief concerns of the student movement before 1965: civil rights and civil liberties. Source: http://www.jofreeman.com/sixtiesprotest/berkeleytalk.htm">What Happened at Berkeley: How the Cold War Culture of Anti-Communism Shaped Protest in the Sixties by Jo Freeman

Student unrest continued to intensify as the Viet Nam war escalated and the civil rights movement expanded. Note: students by and large were well-educated, white, and came from middle class backgrounds. Their initial foray into politics was because political expression was banned on most campuses.

2) The Civil Rights Movement. Make no mistake, this was a revolution of the truest sense. It culminated in the Civil Rights Act (1964) and the Voting Rights Act (1965). This did not mean the job was done, but now implimentation had to occur. Agitation continued as picketing and sit-ins occurred against the hiring practices of commerce -- I remember the campaign against Bank of America in San Francisco, most particularly. However, as the years moved into the 70s, many black activists were becoming far more strident, and black power became the watchword from 1966 onwards.

3) Viet Nam Anit-War movement. Again, this was huge. There were many who were anti-war who didn't hook in with other issues and many who were tied to all of the movements. The draft was as big an issue as was the war itself. But, it was time that eventually was the biggest factor. We were in Nam for 10 years--10 years of vicious combat with as many as 500,000 serving in Nam at any given time.

4) Environmental Movement

5) Women's Liberation

All of these intertwined into a huge generation gap between the boomers and their parents. It was a power struggle that remade must of the social and legal structure of the nation. Some of it was good and some were ideals that failed to take in the bigger picture. The last 20 years has been adjustments and compromises, but the real issues did see change.

The only people now who feel similarly disenfranchised at this point in time is the RW Fundy group. And, they have become the activists. They are pushing to return to the mythical time of the 50s--to before all of the agitation of the 60s/70s.

Part of the problem is that it's really difficult to articulate a clear message about global involvement. Globalization has been insidious and isn't all evil. Many of the liberals of the past believe that the decades of abuse of third world countries by dictators, corporate america, disease, famine, etc., needs to stop. Free trade is one method of accomplishing this.

Whether we like it or not, 9/11 hit a fundamental cord of fear and anger in the U.S. Even if one is opposed to Bush's foreign policies, it's hard to muster up a whole lot of support for the Islamic world. Under Saddam, women had far more rights than they will under the popularly elected Islamic-based government of tomorrow. I never hear anyone say that the Taliban was better. Iran is a mixed bag due to the repressive theocracy ruling it. North Korea has marginalized itself so badly that its people are starving.

Meanwhile our educational system is failing miserably due to wide range of factors, but the upshot is a whole lot of undereducated people who really don't care that they are nearly illiterate.

We have troubles right here in River City and most of them are not sufficient to cause a wide outpouring of RAGE, except outwards against the "terrorists."

[Lerkfish]

30. we have been systemically desensitized to outrageous events...

its calculated, and its effective.
Realize that even we here have been experiencing "outrage fatigue", and that's from folks dedicated to opposing the current administration. If you are inclined to be supportive, or worse apathetic, then you developed outrage fatigue a lot earlier and its been preventing you from noticing the continuing onslaught of outrageous events.

[mattclearing]

31. Can you keep it down? American Idol is on. n/t

[zippy890]

35. Hah! too funnny

except its not funny

-- its true, and pathetic, a nation of zombies sitting

in front of our tv screens, afraid to think for ourselves, believing

in the 'American Dream' of more stuff, more money, cheap gas, ---

the Dream is dead, and people are traumatized by 9/11 and the FEAR

FACTOR which feeds into nationalism,hate and intolerance,

so...

its easier to go back to watching American Idol

[mattclearing]

41. I can't sit through five minutes of American Idol.

It's the crapfest I put up with for a minute or two because I don't want to miss the lead-in to 24.

I'm sorry, glorified karaoke is the enemy of real music everywhere.

[ChickMagic]

32. I think it's a cold war

I'm understanding the Civil War creed of brother against brother. If it turns into a hot war, I will be at war with my family. If Chimpy decides to remain in power after this term, it may turn into a hot war.

[bush_is_wacko]

33. Too many Americans are so worried about losing their jobs

houses, cars, etc. etc., not to mention too busy working their asses off to re-save all that retirement money their employers ran off with before they left their companies to have the time to get out there and make their voices heard. These people have lost all those things that give people security. Retirement, job income, and health insurance benefits. When you have nothing to fall back on you tend to be pretty concentrated on finding a way to get it back.

My family is one of the lucky ones. We lost one job for three months and survived a 55% pay cut for over three years in the other job, while sending one of us through college. My husband stayed at that job in order to keep his benefits because I have a disease that requires 3 medications daily. We were lucky enough to have lived WELL below our means for more than 20 years and to never have been put in a position to lose it all. We have replaced both those jobs and kept health insurance benefits. I have no doubt we are one of the lucky few. I know too many people that would not or did not survive similar circumstances.

I know of two "families" that have lost both jobs and are living off their retirement savings until they can find new ones. They survive on that money plus occasional temp work. I know of several "families" that are so overextended they are in danger of losing their houses if EITHER person loses their job. I know of one family that lost the battle completely. They are going through a divorce, foreclosure on their home, they just had to pay cash for a badly needed surgery for their daughter. They will NEVER recover from the collapse of our economy. It is MUCH worse than this administration has ever admitted.

Americans are aware of the effect of a bad economy, but they are not aware of WHY? They read those little fliers that the RNC sends to them and they say, well I guess they are working on making the economy better, it says so right there and they go about their daily lives as if nothing can be done. Americans have been beat down. some of us got pissed, others just got beat.

How do you grab the attention of "families" that are so worried about losing it all they barely have enough time to sleep?

[zann725]

36. I predict it could be a "hot" summer...if it 'mirrors' the 60's...when

it all erupted nationwide in inner-cities during the summer.

[Spinoza]

37. The difference between now and the 60s is simple.

We don't have a draft today. (Thank God).

[Quakerfriend]

38. You just said the magic word, "draft"

When this happens, we will finally see people in the streets. Sadly, it may be too late.

[Spinoza]

43. Back in the 60s we believed

that only fascists were in favor of a draft. I still believe it.

[Gyre]

39. This is easy.

"The People" haven't suffered anywhere near enough to get them off their couches to hit the streets. Didja notice how they really didn't get too worked up about torture, or Iraqis getting effed over, or about lies to eff them over. But threaten their retirement and now you're messing with something that they believe belongs to them. That'll get them off their fat selfish asses.

Losing a kid because of a draft, or losing your retirement because of economic adventurism will also accomplish the same thing. The repubes know these things are very risky to their prospects. So you get a draft w/o calling it that, killing SS under the guise of "liberating our youth". It's all classic double-speak that American will only get hip to when it's cutting directly against them.

Gyre

[Disturbed]

40. "Things will need to get much worse."

Most revolts happen when things get real bad but then look like they are getting better. When they don't get better it is then that the revolt occurs.

Most people don't react to something until it hits them or their loved ones personaly.

Most Amerikans are not politically astute but most are not downright stupid either. Nationalism is ingrained in most Amerikans. It would take a lot for most to revolt against the system. The wedge issue have so far devided many Amerikans. It would take something huge to cause Amerikans to allign themselves with the other, the enemy-Rethugs/Liberals.

[No Exit]

42. Look to the "Minutemen".

For once, it appears someone actually does not intend to back down to this administration.

I don't know much about the "Minutemen". If the likes of Freerepublic calls them "racists", that must mean that they aren't racists. But who knows. Their bullshit race fears don't interest me. What interests me is that so far, apparently, they haven't backed down to this administration.

I think that movement is the most likely source from which violence would first erupt, as (almost) everyone continues to be damaged by the destructive policies of this fraudulent administration.