Al From says Dems must "reject Michael Moore and the MoveOn crowd"

[RealDems]

"You've got to reject Michael Moore and the MoveOn crowd," DLC CEO Al From said in an interview about how the Democratic Party should rebuild after 2004. From argued that the anti-war Moore and MoveOn have hurt the party on national security, the issue which he says the party needs to make "central to our cause." Rank-and-file Democrats "are more like us than MoveOn," which From called a group of "elites, people who sit in their basements all the time and play on their computers."


Later in the interview, From added: "We don't show enough respect for people who might disagree with us."

Unbelievable. Only Al From would be concerned that we aren't treating Republicans with more respect.

For the whole interview: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3626796/

Trust me... the whole thing is worth the read.

[wtmusic]

1. Fuck him

Just Fuck Al From.

Howard Dean being elected as DNC chair was a major step towards making Al From and Bruce Reid insignificant.

[johncoby2]

84. I agree. Fuck em! eom

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cincinnati_liberal]

205. He's suffering from penis envy

and crabs and foot in mouth disease. Burn him with the the dixiecrats and make compost with their carcass. BTW, the cthulhu avatar rules. The many-angled ones can't stand republicans either.

[minkyboodle]

206. agreed

Fuck him... fuck him in his stupid ass..... (Jay and Silent Bob)

[LynneSin]

2. LynneSin says that Al From needs to go F**K himself

Howard Dean is in charge and believe me, he ain't listening to Al From

[Roland99]

31. Roland99 concurs with LynneSin

[LynneSin]

36. I knew you were a smart man

:D

[me b zola]

77. Zola concurs with LynneSin & Roland99

eom

[Generic Other]

131. May I too join the F* off faction?

Don't you just love a purge?

:puke: :puke: :puke:

[calimary]

141. calimary agrees with all you guys.

I'll see you one "Fuck You" and raise you two "and the horse you rode in on's."

[me b zola]

160. Of course you may!!

This tent is plenty big, just not big enough to withstand the infestation of those whom have binged upon our blood, sweat,& tears.

Time to purge, my sister!! :puke:

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!!

Oh, yeah...F* off DLC!!!

[Morose]

54. I started to search for a thoughtful, literate,

and measured response to Al From's position.

But after some reflection I've decided that he pretty much does need to just go F**k himself.

[RealDems]

55. Yup...

anything else just seems inadequate.

[NVMojo]

138. Welcome to DU, Morose!!

:hi:


And FUCK OFF, MR. FROM!!!

:spank:

[Career Prole]

3. Career Prole says Al From must "go piss up a rope" n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

7. I say "Al, go shit in your hat". (EOM)

[liveoaktx]

4. Like the respect he is showing for Michael Moore and Move-on? Pah!

I'll reject the Democrat party if they reject Michael Moore AS A PLATFORM. MM speaks for me.

[John Q. Citizen]

27. It's a bunch of excuses from failed leaders.

Al From blames Moore because we lost under From's leadership.

Moore is just a documentary film maker and a pretty good one at that.

No one has to like him or dislike him and the suggestion that they should "dislike Moore" as a political stratagy would be humorous if these so called "leaders" like From weren't so pathetic.

To win, we need to steer clear of people like From, apparently.

[calimary]

144. Besides, Moore actually WON something recently, Al.

Moore won an OSCAR not too terribly long ago, and a People's Choice this year, plus the Cannes Palm D'Or, AND the most votes nationwide at the box office for a few weeks running. Among other things. What have YOU won lately, Mr. From?

[RealDems]

145. Look at it this way -- From's candidate won the election

What -- you thought he voted for Kerry?

[Cha]

94. Excellent POint! al the hatchet

from shows more respect to repugs than he does to our Democratic Left!

Go Michael Moore..Go MOveon.org! :toast:

[jdots]

5. who the hell is this clown ?

I will respect repukes when they respect humanity,till them Al go join the the neocons and admit that you are a clueless sell out.

[LynneSin]

6. He was one of the founders of the DLC

otherwise known as Repuke-lites

:puke:

[seabeyond]

8. f* him...from doesnt tell me what to do

nor does bush nor fundies nor ..............

[4morewars]

9. 4morewars says, "Go fuck yourself Al From !"

Like Ted Kennedy says, "The last thing this country needs , is a second republican party."

[Cha]

95. That's Good! I hadn't heard Teddy

say that! Go Ted Kennedy! :toast:

[Andromeda]

156. Go Teddy!

Second Rethug party indeed.:grr:

[The Backlash Cometh]

10. DLC can kiss my butt.

Hell. I'm not even a Democrat and I recognize DLC's leadership problems.

[Crunchy Frog]

11. So we should treat Republicans with respect

but not treat progressive Democrats with respect? Who died and made him God that he gets to make these decisions about the direction of the party? I agree that he can go and fuck himself.

FWIW, I think the party should pay more attention to national security as well. I just don't equate that with embracing the RW neocon view of it, or supporting wars of aggression.

[Cha]

97. YEah! Because I'm sure Michael Moore AND

Moveon.org are into National Security, too..in fact the one who wasn't into it..WAS bush and con rice when 9/11 happened..Democrats can do better than that.

al from is using washed out repug talking points.

[calimary]

139. Yes. Just like THEY treat US with respect.

Get BENT, Al.

We TRIED IT your way. We TRIED the making nice-nice crap with the bad guys. And look where your way got us, 'eh? Up shit creek for at least three election cycles in a row. Farther up shit creek each time, as a matter of fact.

You know what you can do with your advice, Al. It's a new day, Al. We're UNDER NEW MANAGEMENT, and it most definitely ISN'T you.

[HereSince1628]

12. With the rest DLC From is expressing abandonment anxiety

To imply the DLC isn't elitist is to have totally missed the point.

Let's ask the DNC to poll 500 randomly chosen Americans of voting age and ask them if they think there is a meaningful difference between elected republicans and Democrats.

I think folks like From might just be shocked at the proportion that thinks there is no meaningful difference.

[LoZoccolo]

13. It all depends on what's meant by respect.

Attacking an idea is one thing, misrepresenting it - which I've seen here - is another thing, and counterproductive.

[deutsey]

14. He's correct about one thing

"We don't show enough respect for people who might disagree with us."

I disagree with him on just about everything and don't have any respect for him either.

[bush_is_wacko]

15. Rejection..Well I guess that's one way to draw more liberal

voters! What the hell is he talking about? IMO, there is room for a whole lot of viewpoints in this party and REJECTION of anyone that votes liberal is completely counterproductive! I thought Al was smarter than that. I guess he indulged more than I thought he did back in the 70's and 80's!

[Old and In the Way]

16. He sounds just like Joe Scarborough

Very interesting....From represents the corporate elites, but a successful grassroots organization like MoveOn is being smeared as group of elites? Don't think so Al. Why not spend more time attacking the real problem Al, which is the criminal Republicans in office today, instead of attacking the people who are core Democrats?

You are part of our problem. Your work is done. Time to give up the charade of being a Democrat, Al.

[LoZoccolo]

17. By the way, the respect thing is Dean's strategy all the way.

Confederate flags, anyone?

[Warren Stupidity]

41. that's fine

its the 'cordon off the MM lefties' bullshit that I object to. We do have common ground as Democrats with every working class person in this country. The rethugs win by driving wedge issues in between us and convincing us to vote against our own self interest. I have no problem with convincing nascar dads that universal health insurance helps their families, that protecting social security helps their families, that not wasting our children's lives and our nation's treasure on imperial adventures is in their interest too. WTF does that have to do with eliminating the left wing of the Democratic Party?

I tell you what it has to do with it: they, From and the rest of the corporate DLC whores, are terrified that the DP is now self-funding thanks to Dean, thanks to MoveOn, thanks to all of us out here who took it upon ourselves to make sure that money was not the problem. Their hold on power and their ability to push the DP into supporting every piece of corrupt corporate whore legislation proposed was based on their control of corporate donations. F them and their money. Go home Al. Go cash in your chits with GE or whatever and get that comfy job. We've got work to do.

[Cha]

99. That's right..Dean IS respectful

and is going to get results..

[0007]

114. The cartoon sums up a thousand words, Rove sitting on the head of elephant

is going crazy, cuz now he sees the fake Democratic party being cut loose. I love it!

[Cha]

116. It does say a "thousand words"!

It's called "DEAN UNCHAINED" and is from buzzflash's cartoon in residence..Steve Bradenton :7

[98geoduck]

196. Great Cartoon!

[daydreamer]

18. I find Michael Moore quite reasonable

not extreme at all.

[musette_sf]

19. "Calling Al From...

Joe Lieberman is looking for a campaign manager"

[Cha]

100. Two freakin' peas in a

pod!

[annabanana]

20. Al From can kiss my ass.............n/t

Michael Moore and the MoveOn crowd showed them up for the republican-lite crew that they are.

[RealDems]

46. I find it so ironic

that they want to kick out the people who were right about the war because THEY make us look weak on national security. Personally, I don't feel "safe" keeping the idiots who supported this stupid war for political reasons in power. Maybe those who got it wrong (ahem, DLC) should shut up about the only people in the Party who had the courage to stand up and try to stop the worst foreign policy blunder since Vietnam. Just a thought.

[NVMojo]

140. without people like those involved with Move On and Michael Moore ...

Bushfucker could have won by a landslide instead of BARELY!!!

[GOPBasher]

21. Republicans never say, "Let's reject Robertson and the CC crowd."

They pander to their base and we say "go fuck yourself" to ours. And they always win.

[Cha]

101. I'm wondering if al from wants

"to win"!?

[madinmaryland]

22. As I recall, it was only

Michael Moore, Moveon.org, and Howard Dean that were raising issues about this rethuglican admin since the 2001.

Look what happened to four years of appeasement to the Bush-thugs. Now we are stuck with four more wars/years of this crap.

Al From needs to STFU.

[DinahMoeHum]

23. Al From can go blow it out his rear end. . .

He's a bootlicker. . .and we need ass-kickers (like Howard Dean and Michael Moore)

:kick:

[understandinglife]

24. Al From = pukemeister neocon collaborator (nt)

BE THE BU$H OPPOSITION;24/7

[mod mom]

25. Read Greg Palast if you want some insight on the DLC nt

[democrank]

26. Al From is a good example of

everything that`s wrong with our party`s leadership. Like I said in an old post, he spends too much time in a limo and not enough time at the bus stop. He regularly bashes anti-war Democrats, Dean and his followers, Michael Moore, MoveOn, etc. He`s about as popular with me as a root canal.

[Norquist Nemesis]

28. *Ahem* About that respect thing...

One of my posts yesterday had to do with this. The "I hate Republicans". The gist of it is that I've been maligned beyond my endurance point by the CONS. I'm sick and tired of it! They declared war on me and my "left extremist" views, label me loony, and display physical discomfort (if not downright illness) when it becomes apparent I am a Liberal.

So, respect?

Well, you get what you give!

And lastly...as long as we're going to talk about Michael Moore, MoveOn, etc. Let's be fair and talk about Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Robert Novak, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Bill Kristol, Grover Nordquist, ...and the list goes on.

[RealDems]

37. One of my favorite stories:

I read an article about a year and a half ago about a woman who was interviewed by a reporter at a Dean rally. The woman said that she used to be a Clinton moderate, but now found herself strongly in the Dean camp and angry at all the Party triangulators (my word, not hers). The reporter asked what had changed and she said "Grover Norquist said bi-partisanship is date rape, and I'm tired of being raped."

I'm in no mood to worry about my level of respect for Republicans.

[zipplewrath]

56. Inclusion means the left too

  If you want to be inclusive, you don't do it by rejecting
some portion of the population.  The republic rise hasn't
occurred by changing peoples minds.  It has come by 
co-opting certain issues and elevating them in priority.
The population tends to want and believe the same things
it always has.  But somehow the right has managed to
elevate "god, guns, and gays" above issues like job
security, civil rights, peace, clean air....

   The job of the democratic party is to get folks
priorities to change and focus back on the basic
issues which affect them personally.  Prayer
in schools isn't affecting them like crumbling schools
and a million children "left behind".  You won't
have to abandon Moore or Move On to focus on these
issues.  Heck, they'll help you.

[wryter2000]

111. Welcome to DU

:hi:

[calimary]

146. How 'bout we treat them with respect when they start acting

respectable?

Which will be when Hell freezes over.

Around my house, one of our pet phrases is - "if you act like a jerk, you're gonna get treated like a jerk." If the republi-CONS want me to start showing them any respect, they're going to have to give me some first. And act DESERVING of respect.

[BrklynLiberal]

29. Who listens to him? Dean is Chairman of the DNC these days!!!

[rocktivity]

30. Translation: "The Michael Moore/MoveOn crowd has rejected the DLC

and put Dean in charge of the DNC--which pretty much leaves me out in the cold...Brrrr..."

:scared:
rocknation

[ChiciB1]

174. VERY SORRY TO HEAR

You feel that way, but it seems like you're in the minority here. However, Democrats are known for our BIG TENT!! Please stay with us even thought you may not be as Liberal as the rest. We simply want some Sanity Back!

Not necessarily ChrsitianInsanity!

Don't get me wrong, there are PLENTY of Fantastic DEMOCRATIC Christians, BUT we aren't out there pushing a God-Fearing Agenda on EVERYONE else! This is an issue that makes my blood boil. Religion and Politics are separate for me!!!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

32. My signature line...

says it all about ol' Al and his ilk.

I have become utterly convinced through the amazing reseach done here by many DUers that the current incarnation of the DLC and its leadership is a backdoor attempt by the RW powers that be to further destroy the Democratic Party of the people, and create one ruling elite under the guise of two parties.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

34. Kick

The DLC is just as much of a threat to America as the GOP is.

[iconoclastNYC]

66. YES....

It would be a amazing strategic manuver by the right wing. There are plenty of opportunists on both sides of the isle that would pretend to be something thier not in persuit of power.

[Zenlitened]

33. Al From = yesterday's news.

Feel free to ignore him. :boring:

Baby, the Doctor is IN !

[fob]

35. May I pile on here? A big FUCK YOU goes out to Al "go back where

you came" From!!

[seabeyond]

38. dem CAN come together and unite

vast majority of F* you's. bah hahahahaha

from should read this thread. from the people he supposedly represents. not vice versa

[PassingFair]

49. He doesn't claim to represent us:

We're the "chattering class", remember? He represents corporate whoredom.

[LynneSin]

39. Move On members: "elites, people who sit in their basements all the time

and play on their computers"

FUCK YOU AL FROM

YOU KNOW WHERE I WAS - I WAS WORKING MY TAIL BONE OFF GOING DOOR TO DOOR TRYING TO GET JOHN KERRY ELECTED EVEN THOUGH I KNEW THAT HOWARD DEAN WAS ALWAYS THE BETTER CHOICE

I WAS ON THE STEPS OF MY GOVERNMENT PROTESTING AN ILLEGAL WAR THAT HAS KILLED OVER 1500 OF OUR OWN PEOPLE

I WAS ATTENDING MEETUP MEETINGS TO STRATEGIZES WITH OTHERS LIKE MYSELF IN WAYS WE CAN GET OUT THE VOTE

AND IF IT WASN'T FOR US FOLKS IN FRONT OF THE COMPUTER WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GET THE TRUTH LIKE WHO JIM GUCKERT IS.

YOU CAN KISS MY SORRY WHITE ASS AL FROM!!

[PassingFair]

52. You got that right, Lynne!

MoveOn got my ass moving for Kerry in the last month leading up to the election. My local "coordinated" campaign gave us the shaft. Just wanted us compiling data. The most memorable quote of the campaign -- "Lawn signs don't VOTE, Pat". I actually felt sorry for the dem campaign staff, they knew their leadership was LAME.
MoveOn did more for Kerry than THEY did.

[LynneSin]

53. Mine too! Local Democratic Parties have SUCKED big time

if it wasn't for Move On I'd probably be sitting on my ass watching the election go by. Move On got me active!

[ChiciB1]

175. Oh, How I MISS

ABBE... Great Post, love that "in your face" ATTITUDE!!

[welshTerrier2]

40. Al From's Big Tent - the left is NOT welcome

fuck the DLC !!

don't talk to me about the "big tent" ... the only time it exists is when you centrists want the left's money, votes and campaign support ...

we're OK only as long as we keep our mouths shut and go along with the DLC's "winning" strategy ... it just doesn't work that way ...

you have two choices: share power or lose the left ...

[JerseygirlCT]

86. I think the problem is that it's not just the left

it's the center he's repudiating, too. What he's encouraging is more from the radical right.

Things have moved so far to the right that what's called the "left" is basically the center... So anything truly to the left is now seen as way out there. It's crazy, truly.

[welshTerrier2]

102. the point i was trying to make

the point i was trying to make, apparently not too successfully, was that i frequently see posts where DU "moderates" (i actually hate these labels") criticize "the left" for being inflexible, too idealistic, not pragmatic and causing rifts in the Party when they criticize the DLC ... these posters often highlight the fact that we have to be a "big tent" party ...

it's hard to see how mr. from's comments do anything other than cause a rift ... if we don't get reform in the Party soon, reform that gives ALL Democrats a real say in the platform and more two-way dialog with elected Democrats, the Party is going to continue its rapid decline ...

[JerseygirlCT]

121. You made your point!

I was trying to elaborate a bit on it, that's all! You're right.

[notadmblnd]

42. Maybe Al From would be better suited to be CEO of the GOP?

nt

[PurityOfEssence]

43. Let's give him the Vidkun Quisling award for spinelessness

Dragging this party any farther to the right is insane, a betrayal of anything decent in life and simply won't work. What needs to be done is to have some good old fashioned class warfare, using that very term.

This is so tiresome; appeasing unprincipled primitive thugs is stupid. These guys don't play fair. Clinton still doesn't understand this: he thinks that if he is accommodating and level-headed, they'll give him a break. What silliness; they'll take, take, take and then destroy while never making any concessions of their own.

True cultural conservatives don't believe in coexistence; to them, contrary points of view not only shouldn't be heard, they shouldn't be allowed to exist at all.

[EST]

81. Very powerful post.

"What silliness; they'll take, take, take and then destroy while never making any concessions of their own."

That, in a nutshell, nails it to the barn. If that single lesson could be communicated at all levels, the small matter of winning elections would pretty much take care of itself.

[bowens43]

44. Al From: BITE ME, I reject YOU and the DLC asshole.

[PassingFair]

45. F*** him is right!

How can we cut this cancer from the body politic?

[RealDems]

47. Wow. I REALLY hope From reads this thread

[mattclearing]

48. Why not send him a link?

I'm sure there's a contact address at the DLC.

[RealDems]

50. That's not a half bad idea

[PleadTheFirst]

51. With all this venom being spat at Mr. From ...

I'm amazed that no one called him an "Asshat" yet. So I will.

Asshat.

There. I feel better now. :)





In fact ... Go fuck yourself, Mr. From, you pathetic boot-licking neo-con-lite Asshat!




Yeah. I feel a LOT better now. :evilgrin:

[in_cog_ni_to]

57. No, the Progressive Party must reject Al From

and the rest of his DLC cohorts. Kiss my ass, From.

He called Moveon members ELITES????!!@#$%^&&^%$#

He's using the fucking repuke's talking points! He needs to get the hell out of the party! We DO NOT need people like him opening their damn mouths about shit like this! Michael Moore and Moveon did more to motivate Dems than the friggin' DLC did. What the hell? Like I said, he can kiss my ass!

[DaveinMD]

58. From is an idiot

He's the reason the DLC gets so much crap. Not all DLC members are like him and that's important to remember.

[RealDems]

59. He's the founder and CEO

He kinda sets the agenda for the entire group. Nobody is forced to join his organization.

[cestpaspossible]

61. Nobody

is forced to join, however, the DLC has never been shy about falsely claiming that people who have not in fact joined, are members.

[DaveinMD]

68. he founded it

but it morphed into something out of his control. Clinton is a much more progressive figure than From ever counted on. The membership is also more progressive and they sure aren't picking fights in labor like From does.

[RealDems]

199. Clinton may or may not be more progressive

but the issue is whether he was opportunistic enough to embrace the DLC. Same with the DLC members. Many may be more progressive, but they know what it means to join the DLC.

[cestpaspossible]

60. I'm ashamed I'm even commenting on what irrelevant Al said.

Al already has been rejected.

Trust me... the whole thing is worth the read.

No, Al From is not worth reading and what he has to say is not worth repeating. Why amplify his failed, counterproductive message?

[RealDems]

62. It's a catharsis.

Besides, like it or not, they might still pop up again. A number of the potential '08 candidates (including Hillary) subscribe to their viewpoint, so I'm not quite as quick to pronouce them dead.

[smoogatz]

63. "Al From says Dems must "reject Michael Moore and the MoveOn crowd"

and embrace...who? Joe "joementum" "Republican Lite" "Social Security sellout" Lieberman? Zell Miller, maybe? If Kerry'd managed not to fuck up the election, these DLC douchebags would all be kissing Michael Moore's ass and proclaiming him a genius. The DLC hates the idea of good old Democratic party economic populism like vampires hate garlic. Somebody needs to drive a stake through their capitulating, three-election-losing hearts.

[TexasLawyer]

71. well said!!!

[Generator]

64. The guy doesn't even make me angry enough anymore

for profanity.

He's history. His ship as sailed. He might be clinging on to the bow or something..but his ideas are drowning bit by bit day by day and will not be embraced by the opposition that is getting stronger every day to Bush in this country.

He's going to be a nobody by 2006. The death might take a long time but believe me, those that don't get it-don't get the new media-the power of movies, the power of propaganda that's been used against them-they are not going to survive. The fact that they don't understand that or what they are up against is the first clue and certainty of their well deserved demise.

[Just Me]

65. Well, that settles it then. Buh-bye Al & the DLC!!!

MoveOn is the best organization I've ever been associated with.

Michael Moore has been one of the most informative, humane and patriotic artists that has ever gained notoriety.

Al From is an elitist asshole. Screw 'm!

[Enquiringkitty]

67. From needs to take his own advice and have respect for

Moore and "Move On" plus adding the Black, Gay, the religiously diverse. I agree that the Demos and Reps need to have more respect for one another but as long as the bitterness and adversarial tone is present due to the "saint or sinner" divide in this country exists we need to stay on our toes and watch out for the "weapons of Democratic Destruction hurling at us by the Republicans. We have tried to take the higher ground and not address slander, lies, and allegation brought up during campaigns. We found that if we refuse to address them, through repetition, they become fact and we can't have the public mislead like that. We need to broaden our base and make everyone welcome even if some of our views vary. We need to stand for freedom for everyone, everyone has something to contribute, people different from ourselves are not a threat to us or our children. We need to be the party to stop the fear mongers.

[RealDems]

73. I don't have a problem

with the "polarization" in politics today. The way I remember it, the only reason we weren't as divided before is because Democrats weren't fighting back. The whole thing about post-9/11 unity is a myth. Republicans continued their partisan stunts (and even escalated their attacks) immediately after that day. The only reason we appeared united is because Democrats weren't saying anything.

Besides, I actually agree with Republicans who accuse Dems of being moral relativists. We are, and we shouldn't be. It's about time we stopped thinking about liberal - conservative as two different, but equally legitimate viewpoints, and started treating them with the same disdain they have thrown at us for the last decade.

[TexasLawyer]

69. How much did the RNC pay him to say that???

Really! I'd like to know. Or else, how big is the cranial tumor?

That's how nonsensical this reasoning is-- the only possible explanations are pay-off or brain disease!

[NoPasaran]

70. La de dah, Al

We've rejected you and your band of Losercrats instead.

[napi21]

72. I'll reject Michael Moore & MoveON when the Pubs reject

Pat Robertson, the SVFT crowd, and that new group they formed to fight against AARP.

[Cocoa]

74. Michael Moore is a populist

the dem party should be going in his direction, and away from the elites like From.

[LittleClarkie]

75. Hey, Al, ain't cha heard? We're the big tent!

While I don't consider MM to be St. Michael of Assisi, I ain't rejecting nobody. I might call him on his occasional bullshit, and Moveon.org's for that matter, but those who are not against us are for us, to badly paraphrase a biblical quote.

[elshiva]

150. No. Michael Moore is a saintly man!

If you don't believe that see the first episode of "The Awful Truth" where Moore bugs an HMO company until they are shamed into giving a thirty year old father of two little girls a life-saving transplant. There are many stories like that where he actually saved people's lives.

Michael Moore is a great human being, Al From. Wake the hell up! Also, Moveon did some kickass campaigning for Kerry. From is an idiot shooting himself in the foot.

[CoffeeCat]

76. If the Dems "reject MM and the MoveOn Crowd"...

...there will be no Democratic party left--to reject.

They could hold their next Democrat-party meeting in a phone booth.

I'll high tail it over to a third party, so fast--it'll make their Republican lite heads spin.

Nimrods!

[Spiffarino]

78. Well, that was Al From's last gasp

He and his ilk should be dead as far as the Democratic party is concerned. They are more responsible than anyone else for the horrible condition of the party today.

Fuck "triangulation" - it's all about principles now and always should have been.

[RealDems]

80. Should be, yeah...

but some Democrats have a hard time learning lessons. From and his allies are down but not out. I am not going to underestimate the power they still hold within the Party. They aren't just going to go away -- it'd be nice if they did, but it isn't going to happen.

[ClassWarrior]

79. CW says Dems must "reject Al From and the Pink Tutu crowd"

NGU.

[AnneD]

82. I think that Al & others have forgotten.....

who brung them to the dance. I am not a left wing extremist by any stretch of the imagination, but imagination has alluded our 'leaders'. I think that, unlike the GOP, we have been quick to figure out that our party has been co-opted and we are currently in the process of taking it back. We are lucky to have Dean as a catalyst. I am as extremist left wing as Dean. I believe balanced budgets, civil rights, and freedom of choice are more than just quaint ideas. Our current crop of leaders went to bed with corp interest in the '80's for the campaign money and in the process lost their moral bearings. They had to start courting them at the expense of the grass roots. Well the grass roots are coming back... we are not extremist, just extremely pissed. :grr: :nuke:

Watch out Liberman and all you DINO's

[Catamount]

83. Catamount concurs with LynneSin!

[Spinoza]

85. To tell the truth,

I do sit in my basement (I call it an office, but it is next to my garage) and "play" (I call it "trading", but close enough) on my computer all day. He nailed me.

[RealDems]

87. Then you too should leave the Democratic Party

Yup. It's Michael Moore, MoveOn, and Spinoza. If we don't reject you, we will become the elitist Party that prefers holding hands and singing songs to dropping bombs.

Sorry Spinoza -- but we must rid the Party of basement-dwellers, as the first step toward ridding it of Democrats.

[dave29]

89. agreed - anyone but Spinoza '08

you heard it here first.

(Nothing against you or your basement, Spinoza)

[wryter2000]

113. Welcome, Spinoza

Welcome to DU, you pampered elitist, you. :hi:

[MoonRiver]

88. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Cry me a river, From. :cry: It'll be a nice show but nobody cares. :thumbsdown:

[Al-CIAda]

90. Fuck him. How DARE his corporate appeasement, anti-American

Christo-fascist ass, try to devide the party using opposition talking points.

FUCK HIM!

[shance]

91. Al From - corporatist and a Democratic fraud

Im sure we'll be seeing more of these guys (and gals) in the future.

[demgrrrll]

92. I don't know about you but the people that I noticed on election day

in the largest numbers were the 527 people. Move on, ACT and others were everywhere at the polls. The Unions were well represented. He had better hope we are on our computers because that is how they are raising a good deal of their funding. What an ass.

[Pithy Cherub]

93. Al Flop From has royally been flushed into irrelevance.

The only people who he can command an audience with now consists of media whores. The people are not flocking to From's failed ideas, ideals and idiotic statements. From: Your 15 minutes are SOOOOO over!

[tsuki]

96. Do you see Republicans rejecting OxyRush and mAnn? n/t

[flpoljunkie]

98. From exposed: "How the DLC Does it" from The American Prospect

http://www.prospect.org/print/V12/7/dreyfuss-r.html

One by one, Fortune 500 corporate backers saw the DLC as a good investment. By 1990 major firms like AT&T and Philip Morris were important donors. Indeed, according to Reinventing Democrats, Kenneth S. Baer's history of the DLC, Al From used the organization's fundraising prowess as blandishment to attract an ambitious young Arkansas governor to replace Senator Sam Nunn of Georgia as DLC chairman. Drawing heavily on internal memos written by From, Bruce Reed, and other DLCers, Baer says that the DLC offered Clinton not only a national platform for his presidential aspirations but "entree into the Washington and New York fundraising communities." Early in the 1992 primaries, writes Baer, "financially, Clinton's key Wall Street support was almost exclusively DLC-based," especially at firms like New York's Goldman, Sachs.

The DLC's investment in Clinton paid off, of course, after the 1992 election. Not only did the DLC bask in its status as idea factory and influence broker for the White House, but it also reaped immediate financial rewards. One month after the election, Clinton headlined a fundraising dinner for the DLC that drew 2,200 to Washington's Union Station, where tables went for $15,000 apiece. Corporate officials and lobbyists were lined up to meet the new White House occupant, including 139 trade associations, law firms, and companies who kicked in more than $2 million, for a total of $3.3 million raised in a single evening. The DLC-PPI's revenues climbed steadily upward, reaching $5 million in 1996 and, according to its most recent available tax returns, $6.3 million for 1999. "Our revenues for 2000 will probably end up around $7.2 million," says Chuck Alston, the DLC's executive director.

While the DLC will not formally disclose its sources of contributions and dues, the full array of its corporate supporters is contained in the program from its annual fall dinner last October, a gala salute to Lieberman that was held at the National Building Museum in Washington. Five tiers of donors are evident: the Board of Advisers, the Policy Roundtable, the Executive Council, the Board of Trustees, and an ad hoc group called the Event Committee--and companies are placed in each tier depending on the size of their check. For $5,000, 180 companies, lobbying firms, and individuals found themselves on the DLC's board of advisers, including British Petroleum, Boeing, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Coca-Cola, Dell, Eli Lilly, Federal Express, Glaxo Wellcome, Intel, Motorola, U.S. Tobacco, Union Carbide, and Xerox, along with trade associations ranging from the American Association of Health Plans to the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. For $10,000, another 85 corporations signed on as the DLC's policy roundtable, including AOL, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Citigroup, Dow, GE, IBM, Oracle, UBS PacifiCare, PaineWebber, Pfizer, Pharmacia and Upjohn, and TRW.

And for $25,000, 28 giant companies found their way onto the DLC's executive council, including Aetna, AT&T, American Airlines, AIG, BellSouth, Chevron, DuPont, Enron, IBM, Merck and Company, Microsoft, Philip Morris, Texaco, and Verizon Communications. Few, if any, of these corporations would be seen as leaning Democratic, of course, but here and there are some real surprises. One member of the DLC's executive council is none other than Koch Industries, the privately held, Kansas-based oil company whose namesake family members are avatars of the far right, having helped to found archconservative institutions like the Cato Institute and Citizens for a Sound Economy. Not only that, but two Koch executives, Richard Fink and Robert P. Hall III, are listed as members of the board of trustees and the event committee, respectively--meaning that they gave significantly more than $25,000.

The DLC board of trustees is an elite body whose membership is reserved for major donors, and many of the trustees are financial wheeler-dealers who run investment companies and capital management firms--though senior executives from a handful of corporations, such as Koch, Aetna, and Coca-Cola, are included. Some donate enormous amounts of money, such as Bernard Schwartz, the chairman and CEO of Loral Space and Communications, who single-handedly finances the entire publication of Blueprint, the DLC's retooled monthly that replaced The New Democrat. "I sought them out, after talking to Michael Steinhardt," says Schwartz. "I like them because the DLC gives resonance to positions on issues that perhaps candidates cannot commit to."

[IndianaGreen]

103. I think we were just insulted!

elites, people who sit in their basements all the time and play on their computers.

So people like me, you, are elites that sit in our basements playing with our computers? The difference between us and Al From is that, unlike him, we do work for a living and we know how much hurt is out there, which is why we are angry by the time we get on our computers to blast Bush and his enablers.

[XemaSab]

104. Al From is an elephant in a pale blue tutu

(To steal an image from Class Warrior :-) ).

The day the republican leadership denounces O'Really, Limbaugh, Coulter, and the rest, and announces a strategy of "triangulation" (or "selling out," as it's known to the rest of us), in order to capture the votes of the elusive and wily moderate, that's the day the MoveOn sticker is coming off my car!

[Radical Activist]

105. RA says From must "Kiss my ass!"

His corporate agenda is exactly why we are losing voters in rural areas and the south.

[Pepperbelly]

106. I, too, shall join the chorus ... fuck him. nt

[demgrrrll]

107. I have to make another comment with my little Cheeto stained fingers.

Coming directly from mYYYYYYYYYY Basssemennnnnt it's angry Demmgrrrll! Heavy on the grrrrrrrrrrr. Just who in the hell does this jackass think he is? Joementum really was a blazing ball of fire wasn't he? Shouldn't that have been a tip off that maybe From's views are not in the mainstream? That's all I have to say.

[Ellen Forradalom]

108. Jeez, he helps get a guy elected to the White House

and he thinks he owns the party. It's not so much his ideas, but his attitude that his is the only way that's annoying.

Times have changed, and Al needs to change along with them. While his ideas were useful in the 80s, we're not dealing with his father's Republicans any more.

[sleipnir]

109. Sleipnir says Dems must "reject DLC crowd"

Fuck the DLC. They've lost us the last two elections and at this point, due to their lack of any effort, are doing nothing but enabling Republicans.

Once the Democratic party tells the DLC to take a hike, then we might actually win an election. Until then, same shit, different day with these DLC Pricks.

[Deaniac20]

122. well thats what Howard Dean is for

I think we need to gather a petition to send to Howard Dean to dissolve the Democratic Leadership Council. It is sending our party into the ground.

[wryter2000]

110. ???

What party does he belong to, again?

[Kinkistyle]

112. Social Democrat: "Must show more respect for Hitler and Nazi Party"

Thats what Al From sounds like to me. Like a Social Democrat in Weimar Republic Germany urging his party to show Hitler and the National Socialists more respect.

[0007]

115. Fuck Al From and the horse he rode in on!

[Q]

117. And the DLC wonders why they're so hated...

...by 'rank and file' Democrats. Notice that he uses the same rhetoric as the RWingers when he calls activists the 'elite'? Does he even understand what the word means? Would he and his organization fit that description more than the common Moore or Moveon fan that has to work for a living? From sits on his fat ass and rakes in cash from corporations trying to turn our party into the second GOP.

From and his ilk suffer from the delusion that they represent the party. Has he ever even MET a rank and file Democrat? I would bet he doesn't run around in the same circles.

From seems more concerned about treating the Right with 'respect' than he does Democrats who disagree with his agenda. He is a gutless wonder that hides behind his shadow organization...insulting anyone that presumes to dissent against his third way, Bush appeasing bullshit.

[jonnyblitz]

127. the DLC apologists must not be online today.

no comments from them on this thread or I didn't notice them if they are here. I usually recognize the screennames.

[sadiesworld]

118. Newsflash to From:

We're not Bushbot dumbasses. We won't buy into the bizzaro RW dynamic whereby populists and grassroots organizations are the elites and corporate toadies are looking out for the average joe. No sale.

Oh...and a big FUCK YOU, too!

[scarletlib]

119. dear al:

go to hell. we are right. you are wrong.

[applegrove]

120. Michael Moore is a film maker & a shit agitator. He comes up with

good ideas. Leave him in his role as that. When it comes time to vote - hopefully we all look at the candidates and not at someone off to the side.

Don't know enough about MoveOn.Org to comment.

[lastknowngood]

123. Well he should know he's been sooooooooo efective as a

highly paid loooooooooser.

[RealDems]

125. I know...

the idea that these guys know a fucking thing about electability is laughable. Their success begins and ends with Bill Clinton (and even that is questionable).

[proud patriot]

124. Al From Does Not Speak For Me

just so ya know :grr:

[ulysses]

126. bad RealDems! Bad!

Someone will be along shortly to explain to you how the DLC will save us all from ourselves...

[RealDems]

137. I know....

I'm just an elitist activist who enjoys drinking my lattes, feeling superior to people in the red states, "playing" on my computer in the basement, and destroying the Democratic Party with my Bolshevik values. I really do need the guidance of Al From.

[ChiciB1]

176. You Sound As Mad As I Am!!

I'm just so happy I could.... Well, you know!!

I'm With You, but I do want all of us to UNITE and RID OURSELVES of all the CRAP that's being crammed down our GULLETS!!!

To me, what this Boy King Idiot is doing to our country comes close too CALAMITY for America!!!

[RealDems]

191. Mad as hell.... mad as hell

don't worry though. In the past, Parties that have vigorous internal debate usually come out stronger for it.

[zulchzulu]

128. Anyone with a brain thinks Al From is From Assholeville

Imagine me caring what Al From thinks...damn...what a cold bitter ugly World...what a sorry land free of female company...blow-up dolls....yech! No thanks, Al... Stop eating microwaved, used dildos for lunch.

[zulchzulu]

129. Al From sez "IGNORE REALITY and come with me to Loserville"

What an incredibly STUPID thing to say... ignore the Michael Moore/Move-On crowd...what is this shit? The Lieberman Channel?

[McCamy Taylor]

130. Hmm. Sounds like he is a mole for the Heritage Foundation.

His advise really sucks. Kind of like the Right Wing saying "lets not court our base (the NRA, Right to Life etc) and rely on the apathetic middle of the road pseudo-Republicans who maybe might bother to get out to vote if they have nothing better to do...lets just hope they remember which party to vote for."

Who funds the DLC? What is their mission statement? Why is GE aka MSNBC giving them coverage when we all know GE is a Whitehouse mouthpiece?

Something stinks here.

:nuke:

[RealDems]

142. Not just that

but history shows that "swing" voters actually vote for the candidate that generates the most excitement with their base. So it isn't a choice between base voters and swing voters. Swing voters generally think outside of ideology -- and they like candidates with strong convictions -- not those who pander. Look at Reagan... he won the swing vote without moving an inch to the center.

[Jack Rabbit]

132. This is what's wrong with the DLC

Once upon a time, the DLC was a moderating influence. Now they're trying to read progressives out of the Democratic Party.

Do From really think the problem with the Democratic Party is that there are too many Democrats in it? It seems so.

[calimary]

187. That's a truly wonderful question, Jack Rabbit.

"Do From really think the problem with the Democratic Party is that there are too many Democrats in it?"

It does seem so, doesn't it. I disagree. The problem with the Democratic Party is that there are too many Al Froms in it.

[libodem]

133. Don't think so Al...

Whata you nuts? We need to stop playing their game, trying to be a more humane reflection of them. I don't want to look in the mirror and see a Republican looking back at me.

[Arkana]

134. Al From needs to either get laid

or fuck off. Preferably the latter.

[kentuck]

135. And after they take their supporters with them...????

How many votes will Al From have left?

[NVMojo]

136. this amoeba can kiss my ass! AND MOVE ON!!!

[CAcyclist]

143. We're going to reject our Corporatist masters instead

We're going to regain our power and when we do,:
we're going to tax the rich and reregulate the corporations.

We're going to nationalize industries that serve no public benefit by being private - like utlities and health care.

We're going to make polluting industries pay its victims and clean up its messes

We're going to stop invading other countries covertly

We're going to reinstate the estate tax so that dynasties don't develop

We're going to free ourselves from our dependence on oil

We're going to provide free education for everyone and rich people will pay for it.And like it.

We're going to guarantee our elderly a safety net

We're going to house our homeless.

We're going to attack out mental health problem

[reichstag911]

147. Fuck him!

How many winners has he backed? If Gannon/Guckert were listening, I'd say "fuck him up the ass!!!"

[flaminbats]

148. Al From may have some modest points..

censorship is now needed, time for socialized movies, and boy don't free speech and the free market really suck? :shrug:

[dolstein]

149. The only Democratic president to get reelected in 60 years

was a DLC Democrat.

The fact is, no Democrat from the left wing of party has been elected since FDR, and (a) FDR was elected in the middle of the worst economic downturn in American history and (b) it's far from clear that FDR was a left-wing Democrat.

Clinton wasn't from the left wing. Neither was Carter. Neither was LBJ, although he did may things on the domestic front that pleased the left wing (that didn't keep the left wing from turning on LBJ over Vietnam). Certainly not JFK. Not Truman, who wasn't liberal enough for people like Henry Wallace, who ran against him in the 1948 election.

I take what Al From has to say a lot more seriously than anything MoveOn has to say. The only beef I have with Al is that he went far too easy on Kerry, who was clearly too liberal, too wishy washy on foreign policy and had too elite a background to be an effective challenger.

[RealDems]

151. Ah, back to the Clinton re-election as the sole DLC talking point

Nevermind that only one other Democrat actually RAN for re-election during those 60 years (Carter).

Nevermind that Clinton never won a majority of votes.

Nevermind that the Dems lost Congress and have been unable to regain it since the Clinton era.

Nevermind that Dems have lost ground in terms of governorships AND state legislatures since Clinton and the DLC seized the Party.

Nevermind that the 20 point advantage Democrats held over Republicans in self identified Party members disappeared between 1983 and 2003 (magically corresponding to the DLC's prominence within the Party).*

Nevermind that in every election in the last 30 years the candidate who held their base won the election.

Yup. When I look around the country, I can't help but notice how much "success" the DLC has brought to the Democratic Party...

*This stat is according to the Washington Post/ABC News poll which I will be happy to post the link to if you would like.

[dolstein]

155. Perhaps if you understood political history, I'd take you seriously

But it's pretty obvious you don't.

Let's look at your points:

<Nevermind that only one other Democrat actually RAN for re-election <during those 60 years (Carter).

Which of the presidents who didn't seek reelection do you think would have been? Truman was incredibly unpopular. LBJ had problems too.

Frankly, it makes what Clinton accomplished seem even more impressive.

<<Nevermind that Clinton never won a majority of votes.>>

Clinton won. Winning is something the left-wing has never understood. And need I point out that left-wing faves like McGovern and Mondale got CRUSHED in the general election?

<<Nevermind that the Dems lost Congress and have been unable to regain it since the Clinton era.>>

You conveniently ignore the fact that Democrats had been losing ground at the state legislative level for two decades before they finally lost Congress. You also ignore the fact that Democrats lost seats in conservative districts. These were districts that had been voting Republican for president. You seem to think that the Dems lost Congress because the party wasn't liberal enough. Sorry, but that simply isn't supported by the facts.

<<Nevermind that Dems have lost ground in terms of governorships AND state legislatures since Clinton and the DLC seized the Party.>>

Again, the Dems were losing ground long before Clinton was elected president.

<<Nevermind that the 20 point advantage Democrats held over Republicans in self identified Party members disappeared between 1983 and 2003 (magically corresponding to the DLC's prominence within the Party).*>>

Again, this is part of shift that began LONG before the DLC can to power. And in any event, since the DLC didn't "seize the party" until 1992, and wasn't even founded until 1985, it takes a lot of gall to blame them for the decline over the first half of this period.

The fact is, the DLC was formed as a response to the substantial erosion in Democrat support that was happening at the local level, particularly in the South. The DLC wasn't to blame for it, and the fact that they haven't been able to stem the decline hardly suggests that the solution is to move even further to the left. The fact is that, outside of districts that are overwhelmingly African American, no Democrat can get elected in the South unless they are very moderate.

<<Nevermind that in every election in the last 30 years the candidate who held their base won the election.>>

Isn't it funny how much trouble left-wing candidates have in holding onto the Democratic base in presidential elections? McGovern and Mondale couldn't do it. Kinda shoots your theory to hell, doesn't it?

<<Yup. When I look around the country, I can't help but notice how much "success" the DLC has brought to the Democratic Party...>>

As opposed to the success brought to the Democratic Party by people like George McGovern and Walter Mondale.

[RealDems]

184. First on the facts...

The 1983 self ID Dem stat was not the continuation of a decline, but a HIGHPOINT with the Party. I used that as a start date as a sort of "before picture." Two years later the DLC was formed, six years later they gained prominence (with the ascendency of Clinton, which pre-dated his election.)

Second, you make the common mistake of arguing on the Right v. Left basis alone -- which is why you so casually pick up the talking point of tossing McGovern and Mondale in the same category. The truth is that while Mondale was ideologically liberal, he was as Establishment as they come. He ran against Gary Hart and Jesse Jackson in the Primary -- two candidates who would have been much more satisfying to the activists. Plus, Mondale ran against Reagan who OWNED the Republican base. McGovern is really the only example of a grassroots candidate who failed to win (which is why I deliberately said "in the past 30 years.")

In 1964, the Republicans were trounced when they ran a candidate that appealed only to their base (just like the '72 Dems). The difference is that the Republicans used Goldwater as a rallying cry, and his supporters eventually built today's dominant political party. On the flip side, the Dems have used McGovern as a cautionary tale -- have become timid and defensive, and have subsequently lost everything.

Before you question my knowledge of political history, you should look at your own narrow frame of reference.

[dolstein]

188. Actually, I have a must broader frame of reference

For instance, I understand that the seeds of the decline of the Democratic Party can actually be traced back to at least 1948, with the first major geographic split in the party. I also know that while everyone talks about LBJ's landslide victory in 1964, NOBODY around here talked about the disasterous election of 1966, where huge number of Democrats lost their seats. I'm probably the only person around here who understands that if it weren't for Watergate, the Democrats would probably have lost control of both houses of Congress by 1980. And I can't think of anyone else around here who mentioned the rather inconvenient fact that the Dems lost the Senate in 1980 in any event, without the help of the DLC (which wasn't even in existence), and then regained the Senate six years later by electing moderate to conservative Southern Democrats like John Breaux, Howell Heflin and Richard Shelby (!!!).

The fundamental truth, which no DU'er seems willing to acknowledge, is that the loss of Congress resulted from Democrats losing House seats in largely conservative districts that had already been voting Republican at the presidential level for years, and by losing Senate seats in states that had been trending Republican. The entire DU'er argument that the DLC caused the decline of the Democratic Party rests upon the belief that these seats were lost because the Democratic candidates just weren't liberal enough. That's simply bizarre. Does anyone think that Senators like Birch Bayh, Frank Church and George McGovern lost their Senate seats because they simply weren't liberal enough for voters of Indiana, Idaho and North Dakota?

The fact is that the pre-1972 Democratic Party simply wasn't the left-wing paradise that the DU'ers claim it was. Sure, there were a lot of liberals. But there were also a lot of conservatives, and the conservatives (who generally had more seniority) tended to wield more power in Congress than the liberals. And the fact is, most of the liberals back then would flunk the ideological litmus tests imposed by most DU'ers.

To blame the DLC for the decline of the Democratic Party is to turn political history on its head. The Democratic Party was already well in decline before the DLC was formed. Indeed, the DLC was formed as a RESPONSE to this decline. You can take issue at whether the DLC's approach was effective, but it did bring us the first presidential victory in 16 years, and substantially improved the party's standing among suburban voters. Which is more than can be said for the left-wing interest group politics that brought us historic landslide defeats in 1972 and 1984.

[RealDems]

190. You still can't get past the left-right

divide when defining the Party's wings. You're entire political vocabulary consists of "liberal" and "conservative." Surely, you haven't missed the fact that most politics today break up along insider/outsider lines.

But playing along with your frame, for every conservative Democrat who wins election in a conservative state/district (Breaux, Heflin, and are you sure you want to use Shelby to illustrate your point?), there is an Ann Richards, Tom Harkin, Paul Wellstone (or one of my personal favorites for some unknown reason -- Salt Lake City mayor Rocky Anderson)-- to show that political conviction trumps opportunistic positioning in ALL regions of the country. You talk about Senators like Bayh, Church and McGovern losing their seats, but apparently ignore the fact that they were elected in some pretty dark red states in the first place. You want to talk about the reason they lost -- why not talk about what the Republicans were doing to liberalism and Democrats in general. Post-'64, they set up a massive infrastructure to demonize liberals, and they moved far to the Right, moving the national dialogue along with them. We were slow to respond, and when we finally did react, it wasn't by pulling the debate back to the center -- it was by creating the DLC and "accepting" that the country had become more conservative.

I never suggested that the Party was doing just great until the mean old DLC came along and ruined it. Believe me, I know the history of the organization and when/why it was formed. What I am suggesting is that we started losing because the Republicans came up with a great campaign strategy -- change the debate, and fight on principle instead of compromise. The problem with the DLC is that they prescribed the wrong medicine and put the Democrats on permanent defense. After hearing Democrats apologize for liberalism for decades, the country HAS moved to the Right, and the DLC's continued answer is to keep moving along with the debate.

[98geoduck]

157. Thanks for that reminder Real Dems. It seems the Republicans can

do quite well supporting their idiotic base. The pendulum swings, and hopefully past the DLC right. I think the working class in this country have given up enough to the corporate whores in control.

[markus]

166. You left out the collapse of the Dems in the South

Oh, wait, that must be *our* fault that someone as politically astute as John Breaux couldn't help elect a protoge to fill his seat even as a (pro-life) Democrat won for governor.

The DLC model has failed. Clinton was Clinton, and the DLC was just along for the ride.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

189. He's also the only Dem president to lose us all three houses during his

term..I mean..so the senate held on by a thread. It's GONE.
More state houses lost Dems under Clinton than any Dem president ever as well.

So while you continue to repeat this garbage, Clinton's real legacy is that we are locked out of congress until 2010 and possibly after that thanks to gerrymandering. Some accomplishment.

[kodi]

152. how that butt nugget can call the likes of moore/move-on elite is bizarre

From is a 5th columnist in the class war, and he ain't on our side, at all.

[Tactical Progressive]

153. Somebody really should give Al From's side of the debate here

n/t

[RealDems]

154. He has the media for that

[F.Gordon]

158. There's a debate going on here?

I must have missed it. Michael Moore and MoveOn were both ABB advocates. Do they deserve a plate at the table in 2006? Sure, but not in the Democratic Party. I think we all have figured out by now how bad bush* is. Those that don't see bush* and the GOP for what they are by now, aren't goin' get it. Is our "mission" to focus our hatred on bush* or is it to develop policies that can push the Democratic Party into the future?

I've highlighted a few possible debate talking points, but I'm afraid they'll be overlooked as the "choir" continues it's high pitched "out-of-tune" tired chorus of how bad the DLC is.

Me? I'm willing to listen to anyone at this point. It's obvious that From wants to marginalize the "internet-blogger-left" community. Instead of singing out of tune - reacting to his comments..why not prove him wrong? I see his comments as more of a challenge. It's a curse of mine.... I'm too old for the reactionary crap anymore.

Internet-driven movement is focused on "debating tactics and attitude, not policy."

"There's some credibility developing behind the idea that the party can recede into its base and win," he said, with the ongoing discussion on the left clearly in mind. The problem with that, he argued, is that the Democratic base isn't big enough.

From also said that a 2-to-1 Democratic advantage in party ID in 1964 has become an even split, and that key voting blocs like women, Catholics, Hispanics, and even seniors are turning away from the party.

Marshall also noted that even though the GOP is the party of Washington, "Kerry did an abysmal job of reminding people of that," and said Democrats need to offer some political reforms of their own.

[RealDems]

185. I don't know...

I can understand your point, and I think the difference between us is mostly stylistic. I guess I am sort of revelling in the "reactionary crap" at this point, although that isn't the term I would use. I wasn't always so anti-DLC... I used to love Clinton, and I never understood the Nader voters in 2000. But things changed during the first Bush term. I feel like I spent too many years being what I thought was reasonable, but was actually just a way to legitimize views that didn't deserve reasonable consideration. That is the main flaw I see with the DLC -- if Bush decided to invade Canada -- they might not go along, but they would treat the proposal with respect and look for some kind of compromise. I guess my gut response when I read Al From's rejection of those who actually brought energy to the Party is to stand up and wage the fight I wish I'd been waging for years. I'm tired of picking my fights. As Paul Wellstone said, "sometimes you have to pick a fight to win one." I'm guessing a lot of people in this "chorus" have similar reasons.

[F.Gordon]

202. I appreciate the honest response

I'm not pro or anti DLC. But I sure the hell will listen to them. If you can get past some of the hot buttons that turn various DUers off to the whole DLC think tank...there are some good points being made. IMO.

Do I agree with everything that the DLC says? Hell no. But I didn't agree with everything Kerry said either. It didn't change my opinion of Kerry.

I agree with Wellstone, but I also think that fighting the DLC is just shadow boxing. I'd rather pick a fight where I can land a few hard stomach punches......

[MNAZ]

162. I think he just wants to win and believes

that we will never win another general election with Micheal Moore and MoveOn up front. They won't turn a red state blue.

More Micheal Moore would not have won over Ohio. The whole Hollywood thing hurts us with average Joe voter.

[Bridget Burke]

170. Word from Houston, Texas, says that Democrats should act like ...

Democrats. Aggressively.

Several less-political people I've spoken to were quite impressed by Fahrenheit 9/11. We're lucky to have Michael Moore on our side. He is a filmmaker--not a politician. The problem is not that he's "up front"--it's that too many Democratic pols are trailing way behind, acting like Republican Lites.

Timidity doesn't play well here in Red Texas (actually, Harris County is fairly Blue). But I guess you've been working with all those average Joe voters out there in San Francisco.

[Lone Pawn]

172. Exactly how effective has Mr. From's strategy been in the last decade?

Oh, that's right, straight losses every year since '96.

And excuse me, but the Oscars pull in over forty million viewers a year. The Enquirer and People--both devoted to hollywood--outsell Time and Newsweek, and have a right-leaning audience. You're buying into the RW spin.

[MNAZ]

181. You may be right....

I may be buying into the RW spin...but so did 60 million Americans. We've got to come to grips with that.

[Lone Pawn]

182. They voted Bush, but they didn't vote against any one liberal principle.

I would beware of any boogeyman proposed BY the Right.

[shance]

180. What? To exclude Progressives and embrace Republican neocons?

Like Rman said? Sometimes there IS no other side to an argument, because their argument is based on lies and hate.

[gardenista]

159. Damn! I finally get back to the basement, turn on the computer

after a long day of drinking lattes, and now THIS! I would do something about this if I weren't so ineffectual and out of touch. Thank God for my subscription to the Utne reader, or I would *really* have some anger management issues.

[da_chimperor]

161. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. FUCK THE DLC. eom

[rman]

163. Exclude progressives, include republicans? Interesting.

But coming from the DLC, hardly a surprise.

[markus]

167. They accept, and to some degree agree w/, moving the "cener" to the righ

They are largely a reaction to McGovern, and to a lesser extent Carter. (Although Carter was exactly what their electoral system of Super Tuesday was supposed to produce, a moderate Southern Democrat).

They ultimately believe that the move to right-of-center and away from working people was the key to financial success in politics. To a large extent, they are a symptom of the deeper problem: that people on Capitol Hill spend an obscene amount of their time raising money for the next election.

The DLC's two goals were: carry the south, and raise money. In the latter, they succeeded widly.

However, if you're going to carry the south or midwest without an overt economically populist appeal, you have to accept way too much baggage. Hell, I'm not sure it can be done in the south, without asking the Black voter to swallow a whole lot of crap to get more white votes from people who's main accomplishment since the Civil Rights Movement is to learn to keep their thoughts to themselves like good, polite southerners.

(Note: I now live in North Dakota, but I'm from Louisiana. And the above paragraph about somes up my experience of civil rights advances since the 1960s. Things are worse in the midwest, where racial feelings are a little more out in the open, having not been directly through the civil rights movement.)

The DLC has accomplished nothing except to help cement the corporatist hold on our government.

[fujiyama]

164. Ah Mr. From

the Vichy Dem extraordinaire.

To Mr. From,

You have overstayed your welcome in OUR party.

It might be about time to find a new one. Maybe you you should join the party you respect so greatly. Why not just join cut out all the bullshit and join the fascist party, rather than taking all the effort to transform this too as a mirror image.

I'll consider respecting these hideous cretins the moment they stop calling us traitors and babykillers.

P.S. Go Fuck Yourself.

Signed,

Fujiyama

[Q]

165. Although...

...the Defenders of the DLC on this board like to label 'activists' and other who speak out as the 'looney left'....I think many on DU represent the kind of grassroots efforts that the DLC worries will get in their way.

The 'left' has been under constant attack from the Neocon Right for so long...accused of everything from being unpatriotic to unAmerican. In the absense of strong leadership...the 'grassroots' are finally organizing and fighting back on their own.

You can see from From's comments that he doesn't want a resurgence of the same kind of activism we saw in the 60s and 70s...when the labor, peace and civil rights movements finally stood up to the government and said no more. Like the Neocons...the success of the DLC Neodems depends on the ignorance of the masses and their willingness to throw away their principles and vote against their own best interests.

From hates Moore's work in F911 because it exposes the under belly of politicians in both parties that have become mere tools for corporate interests. F911 also showed that these same politicians were backing a war that was not only illegal and unnecessary...but would eventually bankrupt America's social infrastructure.

It's true that From has every right to hate anyone or anything he wants. But to presume to do it in the name of the Dem party is simply unacceptable.

[dpbrown]

168. dpbrown says Al From should enjoy Guckert/Gannon in action

Since it's so natural for Al From to be a "bottom."

[rocktivity]

169. P.S. If we're sitting in basements at our computers all day

it's because we're unemployed, not elitists!

:headbang:
rocknation

[ChiciB1]

171. Well, I Say...

Stick It Where The Sun Don't Shine!! He can take his rhetoric and MOVE-ON!!!

We have begun to pull together somewhat here at DU and I say... RIGHT ON!!

[sunnystarr]

177. I don't mind that we're the elite....

According to dictionary.com, the definition of "elite" is:

1. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: “In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them” (Times Literary Supplement).

2. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

Definition 1.
While many of us aren't in the "superior social or economic status" group, I would agree that we are in the the "superior intellectual" group since we know not drink the Bush koolade.

Definition 2.
If the "group" is defined as all Americans, then I agree that the Dems are the "best" members of that group.

So call me an "elite" ... I don't care at all!

Oh and Frum .... Fuck you and the elephant you rode in on!

[primavera]

178. Al From can kiss my hairy ass

For the time being, we still have freedom of choice, despite Al's best efforts to reduce us to tyranny and monoparty dictatorship.

[mzmolly]

179. He also said we should "reject" Dean. Screw you From, YOU have been

REJECTED. :kick:

[mcscajun]

183. From is talking a great load of shite and should just

STFU

My PC isn't IN my basement, I loathe latte and all other forms of coffee, and the only reason I'm on my PC so much is I'm fucking UNEMPLOYED thanks to Bush economics and the corporate race to the bottom.

Michael Moore simply opens eyes; MoveOn gets people to act on what they see. Al From would like us all to walk blindly behind Him, and with Dean's ascension to the party leadership he's feeling, shall we say, unwanted. He can go screw himself. I'm for including Everybody BUT him.

And echoing others here, I'll show the Radical Right some respect when they stop calling us traitors and saying that we hate America. Bastards.

[Zhade]

186. Kick

FUCK the DLC.

[BigBearJohn]

192. THIS GUY IS THE REASON WE KEEP LOSING. NO MORE!!!

FUCK THIS AL FROM! AS A MATTER OF FACT
LET GANNON DO IT!!!

[BigBearJohn]

193. I think Al From needs a hotel visit from Gannon..a deal at twice the price

[rumpel]

194. have the repugs ever respected us?

[yorkiemommie1]

195. sycophant, kissy-up. scairdy-cat

why should i respect liars, cheats, thieves, plunderers?

the most dishonest, rapacious administration in our history and we are supposed to lick their boots in supplication!

F***NO!

edit to add that i'm not even elite enough to HAVE a basement!!!

[Sapphire Blue]

197. Democratic Leadership Council -

Interesting reading about the DLC from Right Web:

Overview Description

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/org/demleadcoun.php



NOTE: Right Web explores the many ties that link the right-wing movement's main players, organizations, corporate supporters, educational institutions, and government representatives to each other in a new architecture of power. By establishing Right Web, the Interhemispheric Resource Center (IRC), which for 25 years has worked “to make the U.S. a more responsible global leader and global partner,” hopes to add to the growing national movement of concerned citizens who are working to check the rightward drift of the country.

http://rightweb.irc-online.org/about.php

[TankLV]

198. "WE" - the democratic wing of the democratic party - must be doing

something right!

We must move the party to the center = we must move it leftward!

After all, doing the repuke-lite thing has given us SOOOOOO many successes! We do control the WH, Congress and Courts, don't we?

Move one further inch to the right and the party can kiss me goodbye.

They are finally doing something I agree with.

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU REPUKE-LITES REPUKE-WANNBES!

[donheld]

200. Al who? Gore, Franken, Bundy? oh From

:shrug: Is Al From really Al Bundy?

[RealDems]

201. Al Bundy was finally canceled

for low ratings. Let's hope so.

[dv8]

203. I take it no one respects the DLC

/sarcasm

[Jack Rabbit]

204. They have there defenders here

They might show up. Both of them.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

207. Al From can go F**** himself. His kiss Repub ass attitude is a 1way

ticket to oblivion.

[Clarkie1]

208. Time for a new avatar...

"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism" - Wes Clak

[Dr Fate]

209. Why would they reject me? I worked 40 hours + a week for Kerry...

Not to mention all the free work I did for them in 2002-

Who does this idiot Al From think is going to knock on doors & man phones come election time??????

[RealDems]

210. Al From doesn't care about you

Unless you are a corporation

[Enquiringkitty]

211. He's a chicken-shit who doesn't want to make waves or fight back.

OH PLEASE!!!!! Don't be mad at me Massa Republican Bossman. I don't even know Michael Moore and MoveOn????? Isn't that a moving company????