WHY won't the Democratic Party CHANGE?

[LoZoccolo]

I don't understand it. I come here and complain about it on this message board every day and they don't do anything about it. I work hard at making my voice heard on DU and they just drive right past it.

I put John Kerry on notice in GD:2004 that if he didn't do anything to change the constitution to make this country more democratic, then I wouldn't vote for him. He didn't say one thing about this issue. It's like he didn't even read my post!

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

[welshTerrier2]

1. 20-1 ...

when i called Kerry's office to state my reasons for asking him to vote against the IWR, his staffer told me Kerry's calls were running 20 to 1 against the IWR ... it's not that he doesn't read DU, it's that there is way too much control by the Party's insiders ...

you don't agree ??

those who had a chance to vote for Dean to become Chair did so primarily because they said the Party was much too controlled by Washington insiders ...

make fun of DU'ers if you must, but the Party needs to be reformed ... i'll assume you think opening up the Party to allow ALL Democrats to participate in defining the Party's platform (interesting typo: originally typed: platfrom ... freudian??) is a good thing ...

[ClassWarrior]

19. Of course it needs reforming - but we need to keep a stiff upper lip...

<LOL> We can't panic one another every time we take one step back; we need to stop and think about the two steps forward we took yesterday.

Look, I petitioned my state party Chair to vote for Dean for EXACTLY the reasons you stated. That's not the point of this thread, as I read it. The doom and gloom of so many threads is.

But the people who are really being skewered here aren't DUers anyway. DUers are folks who are working to build a postive Progressive movement, and would never be so irresponsible as to sow despair among their friends and allies.

NGU.

[stray cat]

2. These democrats act like they represent people other than just me.

I don't get it either. I know exactly what needs to be done to solve all our domestic and international problems. We could create peace on earth and prosperity for all if the leaders of the party would just take my advice. My vote and ideas should take priority over any of the people in their own state that they represent. I just don't get it. (more sarcasm)

[welshTerrier2]

4. you're right ... you "just don't get it"

if you really believe the message from many of us who don't like the direction the Party has taken on a wide array of issues is that the Party should do exactly as "I" say, then you don't get it ...

there are millions of Democrats, tens of millions of Democrats, who see the Party as too conservative ... there are tens of millions who don't like the way the Party failed to stand up to bush during his first four years ... there are tens of millions who have organized through various groups like DFA, PDA, MoveON and others to change the Party ...

for you to sarcastically suggest that it's all about "me" and not about the shared beliefs that millions of Democrats hold is total nonsense ...

[DemocracyInaction]

3. Well, I don't have a big wish list for them nor a specific one

BUT which part of "OPEN YOUR FUCKING MOUTH" do they just not get???

[Worst Username Ever]

5. No shit. It's like they don't read every letter I send out or something!

If they would just realize that my ideas are far superior and they should listen to everything I say, we totally would have won that election!

[MissWaverly]

6. Why is nothing being done about Ohio????

Time goes on and on, Bush's credibility with foreign leaders continues to detoriate, I read that his entourage in Germany consisted of eighty limos. He's as walled off as he was during the
inauguration. Remember the video, when Barney was looking for something and they said to him, Why don't you look in Ohio? Why don't we listen. Why has nothing been resolved about Robert Novak revealing Valerie Plame's identity as a CIA operative on July 14, 2003. I thought Dean said that they were going to make election fraud a priority, what is being done?

[marcologico]

7. What is being done? Well, Dean is on a speaking tour, step right up...

. . . so unfortunately he won't be speaking to the press about Ohio or Gannongate. Wouldn't be prudent!

[MissWaverly]

9. Understand but that's why we have a party

We're not supposed to be a one man band that's what the Republicans
are right now with George Bush, we have always been able to talk, to organize, to get the word out, we need to start moving on this, soon
they will be saying, can't deal with this right now, got to get moving on '06 elections, gotta organize if we're going to take control of the Senate. I understand all this, but these are not normal times, we need to resolve some of this mess within the next 6 months or we may be into a nuclear war with Iran.

[marcologico]

20. Forget leading, how about yakking up our issues to the press?

At least McAuliffe had enough sense to do that!

[ClassWarrior]

8. Yeah, Joementum has been wearing that same pair of tightie whities...

...for three days now. And they're beginning to reek!!

Yikes!!

NGU.

[ClassWarrior]

10. By the way...

...this is a performance worthy of the legendary DUDQ. Bravo! Bravo!

<LOL>

NGU.

[Q]

12. Wow...the DLCers are getting pretty ugly with their sarcasm...

...and we all know this is the same tired rhetoric about the 'left' expecting 'purity' instead of marching in lockstep with the new right wing of the party.

The so-called Centrists understand that they can't muster a consensus within the party or a mandate for their RWing agenda...so they insult those wanting change by implying that they're 'out of touch' or 'living in past' or looking for a 'perfect' candidate.

But I want to thank the thread author for pointing out that the right wing of the party has no intention of trying to find common ground with the left. They would rather ridicule and belittle those who refuse to be pulled closer to the Bush Republicans without their consent.

[LoZoccolo]

13. Huh? Huh?

But I want to thank the thread author for pointing out that the right wing of the party has no intention of trying to find common ground with the left. They would rather ridicule and belittle those who refuse to be pulled closer to the Bush Republicans without their consent.

This is a way bigger DUDQ award, if you are going to blow this way out of proportion like that.

[Q]

14. And now you feign ignorance...

...how trite.

What's this 'DUDQ' award? I hope it's not in reference to me because that would not be very polite.

[LoZoccolo]

15. No, the Q does not stand for Q.

I guess I can't stop you from believing what you want to believe about why I said what I said. But remember, if you're wrong:

- I'm the first person to know that you're wrong.
- I'm also the first person to know you don't really get the meaning you were supposed to from it.

Either one is a stain on one's credibility.

[Q]

40. Then enlighten us...

...what does 'DUDQ' stand for?

You throw the word 'credibility' around as if you have more than anyone else. You're a legend in your own mind.

[LoZoccolo]

46. self-deleted

[knight_of_the_star]

16. Get out of your ivory tower

Standing up and acting like a know-it-all isn't going to win you any arguments.

[Q]

38. "Know-it-all"?

I know enough to understand when the so-called 'centrists' are trying to ridicule those who want changes in the party or honesty and integrity from their representatives.

[Laurab]

17. What about me??????

I wrote to Hillary about Gannon/Gucker and got an email back about Election Fraud - sheesh. I think she's not even reading my emails. And I thought she CARED.............




Give this thread a little time - I think it will be nominated for DUDQ. I MISS DUDQ!

[ClassWarrior]

18. I miss it too...

<LOL> I know the mods were awfully tolerant about those threads. They were letting us blow off some pent-up steam. So I hesitate to go there again... except in times of dire Freeping.

NGU.

[autorank]

11. ...and they're NOT even reading my mind! Bastards.

I have a number of profound and subtle thoughts every day regarding improvements in the party. You think one of them would tune in? Noooo...so my special thoughts are going directly to David Ekkes.

[CWebster]

21. Money and power at stake.

Entrenched entitlement of the ruling class disconnected from the reality of most people's lives.

And yet, apologies and rationalizations of many "Democrats" born of inability or unwillingness to face that reality, maintains the status quo. Those who advocate change are marginalized as "fringe". It is a knee-jerk reaction that keep people from voting against their best interests and serves the masters well.

Sound familiar?

[marcologico]

22. Theirs AND yours.

Let's say you work in a hospital, or in a school, or in construction, or on a military base, or in the food business, or in any manufacturing business, or collect Social Security, or Medicare, or you name it, and they piss off Frist or DeLay and your employer loses his fat federal contract and your job goes down the toilet.

They're looking out for you babe.

[CWebster]

24. That's rich

If they stand up to the big meanies and bullies they are risking more than if they kneel at the big fat Republican arses and inhale deeply?

You are unbelievable, buddy.

[marcologico]

25. Maybe you're independently wealthy. Most of us aren't

I'd prefer to deal with the facts on the ground than fall for anybody's faith-based politics.

[CWebster]

26. Ahh so,

we must do the master's bidding, so the master will throw us a scrap?


Look, I even invented an argument for you, since you had nothing to say under the cover of an insult.

[marcologico]

27. If that made any sense I'd answer it . n/t

[LoZoccolo]

30. Your argument would be more realistic if we lived in that metaphor.

But we don't.

[LoZoccolo]

32. Hey man, when was the last time you threatened your boss' life?

Now I'm mad, actually! When's the last time you held a knife to your boss's throat and demanded a raise? I think you're all talk! Let's see some bite with this bark! Stab that fucker already!

I think that unless you threaten and/or actually stab your boss, then you are a poseur and all talk, and just as much of a torch carrier for the DLC than these people you complain about.

_{NOTE: This post is sarcastic.}

[CWebster]

33. Are you talking to me?

Or, are you just being sarcastic--or is just more of this regressive we can't fight back and should know our fucking place?

Talk about being mad--WHAT IS THE FUCKIBG USE!!!!!!Just fold up the #$@%&&$@%^&* tent and all be one big fucking happy unity party.

[LoZoccolo]

34. It says at the bottom of the message that it's sarcastic.

And what summarily annoys me about people who take your tack is this idea that we are either "killing our masters" or wholly surrendering, and there's no other choices that would be more effective. It's drama-queen behaviour. "Oh, you don't want to do what I want??!! Oh, you're surrendering!!" I already know that trick. It doesn't work on me.

[CWebster]

35. Then bend over and don't complain,

No fucking complaining or I will get on every damn thread and remind you when you start COMPARTMENTALIZING you views again.

[LoZoccolo]

36. Ha ha ha ha this is just what I'm talking about!

Woooo hoooo!

"You're either with me, or you don't believe in complaining at all!"

Oh brother. Do you actually do anything besides complain on message boards?

[CWebster]

37. well, isn't that what you are saying?

Yo, this is a bulletin board, a discussion forum. To all those who say lets roll up our sleeves and get to work, or what do you do, what do you contribute--I ask, what the hell are you doing here?

If your time is so important and your presence is so instrumental, what the hell are you doing here lecturing down your nose at us?

You don't know jack-shit about me, bud, and I find it offensive when others come in here just to harp about themselves under the guise of condemning others for not pitching in.

If i feel like joining in the discussion, I will.

[LoZoccolo]

39. NO that's not what I'm saying.

This one isn't sarcastic. There's something more subtle about what I'm saying in the original post.

And yes I do know jack-shit about you, because you've basically posted three messages already that say that if someone doesn't agree with you they are completely on the other side.

Try and figure out what I'm saying. It'll be an exercise in detecting nuance and subtlety, and will be a step towards developing beyond the with-me-or-against-us tendency in your rhetoric.

[CWebster]

41. Straw man

rather than address the issues.


Some claim lieing down is best--that way the Repugs won't attack. Is that what you want. I advocate standing up to them- but you spin it is either with us or against us.

If the opposition party isn't willing to oppose-WHAT IS THE POINT?

[LoZoccolo]

42. What are you talking about strawman you've been doing that all along!

Some claim lieing down is best--that way the Repugs won't attack. Is that what you want. I advocate standing up to them- but you spin it is either with us or against us.

That's a straw man right there.

If the opposition party isn't willing to oppose-WHAT IS THE POINT?

The opposition party has been opposing things. Just not as much or what you want.

You keep completely missing my point to begin with and wasting my time. The original post says nothing in disagreement with the idea that the Democrats should take stronger stands. Try to figure out what it is. You will find great reward in the journey.

[JNelson6563]

23. Out of curiosity

I realize your post was "sarcastic" but I can't help but wonder, how are you involved in affecting change in Real World Politics?

Julie

[ClassWarrior]

29. Hey Julie...

Speaking for myself, I'm heavily involved in Real World Politics. That's the kind where the Republicons and the Radical RW are enemies who deserve loud, public humiliation, and the Dems are our allies who, nonetheless, deserve severe-though-private whoopings at times.

NGU.

[JNelson6563]

44. Cool

I dole out my shae of whuppin's to the Dems who deserve it and I also see the Rethugs as the enemy. Glad to know of another DUer out there trying to make a real difference.

:toast:

Julie

[LoZoccolo]

31. By creating more practical liberals.

Ones that go out and convince others of their agenda, thus giving our politicians the backup they need to implement that agenda, rather than complaining that they don't do what we want (and what most people don't understand or could be easily convinced won't work).

I also did work for the Kerry campaign, and am a member of DFA (though I haven't been to the meetings the last two months).

[JNelson6563]

43. I see

Your creating "more practical liberals" who "go out and convince other of their agenda". And where is it you are doing this "creating"? DU?

5 pts for creatively spinning armchair warrior "activity" into an almost tangible sounding effort. The Kerry campaign ended some time ago friend. Get busy. I mean in real life. Only then do you have real cause to complain or criticize.

Julie

[LoZoccolo]

45. Yes. This place is ripe with people with tons of energy and no direction.

I think what I'm doing is good. So you'd say liberal political columnists are lazy-ass armchair activists and do-nothings?

But that's not all I do. Of course the Kerry campaign ended. We're in a dry period right now, and I'm still deciding the direction to take. I'm part of IllinoisDemNet and ChicagoDemNet too, and they're planning activities as well, including a rally for Social Security. I just haven't been doing anything like this month or last month. Forgive me for not having direction for a few months after the Kerry campaign. I wanted a break or something after working for a year and a half (first with Dean). That was wrong of me to do nothing for three months. Sorry.

[JNelson6563]

47. That's three months head start for Rethugs

Some of us didn't give ourselves the luxury of licking our wounds for months. And we don't look favorably on those who have chiding us.

Julie

[sendero]

28. They don't now..

... (read it and heed it) but they will. And MOST of the Dems in the Congress right now are part of the problem and they will never be part of the solution, they are bought and sold.

I know you think folks here are tilting at windmills, but you might be singing a different tune in a few years. The grass roots are awakening, egged on by watching Bush** run roughshod over the interests of the country over, and over, and over again.

These jokers, like the Reps, have not caught on to the power of the net yet - but they will :)