Black Churches in LA meet today/move toward GOP

[bliss_eternal]

I saw this piece on CBS news earlier this evening. This is the only link I could find covering the information that was reported on. Couldn't even find anything about it at cbsnews.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
GOP Sees a Future in Black Churches* Social issues are binding the party with a group once firmly in the Democratic camp.
 
  Photos
The Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson of Los Angeles says black preachers are moving toward the GOP.   Times Headlines
 
GOP Sees a Future in Black Churches

 

  By Tom Hamburger and Peter Wallsten, Times Staff Writers

WASHINGTON — Black conservatives who supported President Bush in 2004 and gained new prominence within the Republican Party are launching a loosely knit movement that they hope will transform the role African Americans play in national politics.

The effort will be visible today at the Crenshaw Christian Center, one of Los Angeles' biggest black churches, headed by televangelist Frederick K.C. Price. More than 100 African American ministers are to gather in the first of several regional summits to build support for banning same-sex marriage — a signature issue that drew socially conservative blacks to the Republican column last year.

--SNIP--

The effort has proved so successful already that Democrats who make up the Congressional Black Caucus are quietly expressing alarm — and planning countermeasures.

"I am frightened by what is happening," said Rep. Major R. Owens, an 11-term Democratic congressman from New York who has been conferring with colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus. "Our party is in grave danger. This Republican movement is going to expand exponentially unless we do something."

--SNIP--

Article link below--

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/politics/la-na-pastors1feb01,1,2279196.story?coll=la-news-politics-national&ctrack=1&cset=true
______________________________________________________________________

Am I the only one that thinks the GOP is using these churches and the ministers are blindly allowing it to happen?

What a crock!

[xultar]

1. You are right they are being used, but at least they won't be ignored like

the Democratic party did.

Think about it here. When I bring up issues of race and try to explain things I get shot down. That's generally how it's always been though it's more polite in the real world.

So the Rethugs are taking advantage of it.

Just like I've been warning. But it's fine because we were going to purge the party anyway right. All of those Dems who are deemed unworthy can go we didn't need the dead weight anyways.

[Walt Starr]

6. It was bound to happen

The African-American community has consistently been a strong part of the Democratic base, and like all parts of the Democratic base has been consistently ignored by the Party Power Elites for two decades.

[Gman]

13. Walt, that's just not true

Seriously. In a nutshell, Bill Clinton didn't just earn the moniker of the first Black president for taking Blacks for granted. The list of what Clinton did for Blacks is way to long to list here.

[Walt Starr]

19. Please list a few, then. n/t

[Gman]

46. One of the first things that comes to mind is the so-called

"largest tax increase in history" as the Republicans called it, but in fact the tax bill that moved the tax burden from the middle class and working poor onto the rich who could afford it. I forget what year that was, but I think it was '93. Under Bush the GOP not only repealed, but moved more of the tax burden onto the working class and poor.

More stuff with links:
Four African-Americans, Ron Brown, Mike Espy, Jesse Brown and Hazel O'Leary all were in Clinton's cabinet at the same time, the most AA's ever in an administration. Never before had a Black American headed any of these departments: not Commerce, not Agriculture, not Energy, not Veterans Affairs. http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n7_v48/ai_13698296

African-American unemployment fell from 14.2% in 1992 to an average of 7.7% in the first half of 2000 -- the lowest rate on record. http://www.issues2000.org/Celeb/Bill_Clinton_Labor_+_Farming.htm

Median Income of African American Families Is Up $5,104. Median household income of African American households is up 21 percent (or $5,104) since 1993, from $24,300 in 1993 to $29,404 in 1998, adjusted for inflation. This is an even larger than the increase for all Americans.

African American Poverty Rate Down To Lowest Level On Record. The African American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 - the lowest level ever recorded (data first collected in 1959) and the largest five-year drop in more than twenty-five years. While this decrease marks significant progress, President Clinton will continue to fight for policies that help to raise incomes and reduce poverty.

Child Poverty Among African Americans Down To Lowest Level On Record. While the African American child poverty rate is still too high, in 1998 it fell to 36.7 percent -- the lowest level on record (data collected since 1959). Since 1993, the child poverty rate among African Americans has dropped from 46.1 percent to 36.7 percent -- the biggest five-year drop on record. gman's note: granted 36.7% is atrocious but what is the GOP doing about it? Had Gore gotten elected and reelected this figure would arguably be cut in half by now and still declining.

Much more here

And I like this picture:

[xultar]

26. Awww come on...Where were the Dems in 2000 on the issues in FL????

Couldn't get Kerry to really go into any inner cities.
Look what they let happen to Cynthia McKinney

I'll give you more later...

[Gman]

36. I faulted Kerry AND Dean for not having enough minorities

on their staffs way back in the primaries and I don't make apologies for either of them.

And, we all know where the Dems where in 2000 re FL.

But you and I both know Cynthia McKinney lost in the primaries due to GOP crossovers into the Democratic primary to vote for her opponent. Also remember that McKinney's back.

See my remarks in the next few minutes to Walt about what Clinton did for Blacks. (gotta dig back through my files).

[progressiveright]

74. Where were dems in florida ?...

So...., you are saying that dems didn't fight for minorities when minorities were being screwed by GOP during election, that's why minorities are moving into GOP because they don't want to be taken for granted...?

this makes no sense bro

[John_H]

67. Let's be honest with ourselves.

On DU we love to call out religious leaders as power hungry, money grubbing hypocrites. What makes us believe that there are no african american preachers that fit that description.

Buying off the black preachers that can be bought was what the "faith based" initiative was all about from day one.

It's true that many blacks believe the dem party ignores them except when the GOTV operation ramps up, and that belief is not entirely unfounded. But we'd be lying to ourselves if we said that a solid GOP majority in all branches of government and the rethugs pumping trying to pump money into black churches isn't going to be a factor as well.

[CatWoman]

80. BINGO!!!!!!!!!

Someone gets it!!!!!

[FreedomAngel82]

68. I guess they forgot about Florida in 2000

and Ohio in 2004. Who was it who took away their right to vote? They're just going to be used just like Bush uses the religious folks who fall for his b.s.

[Gman]

9. Xultar, did you see this article

about the CBC meeting with Bush and asking him what he thought about the 2007 renewal of the 1965 Voting Rights Act?

“He said he (Bush) didn’t know nothing about it, and he’ll deal with the legislation that comes before him,” Rep. Jackson told RAW STORY.

You and I both know what the sermons will be in the Black churches if Bush goes after the 1965 Voting Rights Act in 2007 and I doubt it will be to vote Republican. Don't forget the IRS has gone after the NAACP with a vengeance. I don't have a link, but the NAACP has flat out refused to comply with the IRS requests for information so a confrontation seems to be coming real quick and Bush and the GOP won't look real good either.

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/index.php?p=13

[xultar]

21. I SAW THE ARTICLE...I know about that. I was SCREAMING after 11/02

BUT...

You guys just don't get some stuff. When I try to explain it I get CHEWED out.

So instead of being chewed out maybe they think they can fix the REthugs from the inside.

YOu don't have to lecture me abou the fact that Rethugs don't know anything about the VRA of 1965

But Dems surely have a lot to learn while they are still hiding behind the diversity that they say they promote but yet don't live in reall life.

[Gman]

53. Yes I do get it

One of my best friends is an African American (who is also our Democratic Party state committeman) and we have discussed this at length and I have even argued your point at times. But the bottom line is African Americans have access within the Democratic party and those that use that access know it, and those being accessed know African Americans better have access. Sure, not everything is addressed, and things even get blown off (FL in 2000). The Democratic Party is out of power now. We can only try to change that every two years and things don't get any better with the GOP.

Fix the Rethugs from the inside?? You and I both know that will meet with about as much success as the Log Cabin Republicans have had. The only black folks that are received well in the GOP are those willing to do the master's bidding or those savvy enough to con the GOP white man out of his money by acting like a Black conservative. There's a big market for any Black that is educated, well spoken and will parrot the white GOP line. Armstrong Williams was the one that got caught. There's others out there that haven't been exposed. You know they're just in it for the money.

Look at this and then tell me what the GOP has done to help African Americans that comes anywhere near this.

And now the GOP is going after Social Security, which includes SSI, and there's so very many African American's receiving SSI.......

[bliss_eternal]

10. Hi xultar--I'm sorry, did I miss something?

I'm a little confused by your posts. What are you referring to, if I may ask?

BTW, everytime I see a post by you I think how cute your avatar pic is!

:hi:

[xultar]

30. African-Americans have different concerns, we also have moderates

when people talk of bring the party back to the base a lot of that doesn't consider moderate blacks.

When I hear people here talking about PURGING the party they are talking about purging people like me.

[BayCityProgressive]

2. the Democrats

are becoming so bankrupt of any prinicples or new ideas that all of their base is leaving them in droves. They lost a large portion of the Hispanic vote. They are too iffy on gay rights and only 70% of gays supported Dems, Jews are beginning to leave the party, and only 60% of union workers still vote Democrat. The Dems better start working their asses off to turn this around. Bush even made big gains with women.

[BayCityProgressive]

3. I don't think the

answer for the party is to move Left or Right but to come up with some new ideas. We used to have all kinds of big ideas but we are pretty dead now.

[brown6004]

57. I agree.

For example...

As Democrats what should our platform be on these topics

Abortion

God (prayer, tax-exemption for churches, private schools, etc.)

Guns

I believe these are the main reasons are party has been deminished. We are pushing a major segment of Hispanics and AA out of our party if we always take the extreme on these positions. We should be doing what Hillary is doing now and what Bill C. did while he was in office. Reach out to everyone! Dean will be bad for our party IMHO. Where will he go on these issues?

I've said this once and I'll say it again we need someone like Bill Richardson as our candidate in '08. He is a non-polarizing figure and a proven leader now that he has a few years as governor under his belt.

[xultar]

5. But to here it @ DU we don't care about them anyways they are religious

moderate dems.

So who cares?

[FreedomAngel82]

69. I don't know about

Bush and women personally. Here a few days before the election a local news network did a poll on women and voting. Kerry won by two/three percent of the votes.

[roguevalley]

4. Its an awful thing when people with a history of oppression join

forces to support discrimination and oppression from the party of the oppressors. God help us and God help them.

[xultar]

7. It's not their fault. Being a Democrat isn't that rosey. When we bring

up issues of race and try to explain how things are different we get beat down.

So WTF are we supposed to do. Democrats say they are diverse but when it comes down to it we're not.

TRUTH is TRUTH

[BayCityProgressive]

18. Some ideas for Democrats

Cut the payroll tax on working Americans and make up for it by taxing companies who pollute or outsource jobs. Tighten our borders, even most hispanics support this. Make workplace protection for gays a central theme. support abortion rights but put emphasis on emergency contreception. Help pay college for people who get a 3.0 or better and work or give a certain amount of community service. Push the union card check laws, and repeal right to work laws. Launch huge program to switch the country to renewable energy,allow federal funds for faith based initiatives that are proven effective. Give DC statehood and end racial profiling. Invest in totally ending child hunger in the USA. I know Dems use many fo these as pet issues but they really don't agressively push them.

[oasis]

25. Can you be a little more specific. How about an example or two?

[FreedomAngel82]

70. Exactly Xultar

When we tried telling people of what happened in 2000 we were called "conspericy theorist." Look at what happened with Rice and Boxer. :eyes: It's a hard fight. People don't take us seriously.

[KnowerOfLogic]

85. True, dems aren't offfering a lot; but to join the GOP for the gay-bashing

doesn't seem like a move motivated by either intelligence or morality.

[bliss_eternal]

20. THIS is the point that concerns me and sickens me.

As a woman, as a person of color, as a human being I can NOT align myself with a party that has made it very clear that they do not support the ideals of civil rights and liberties for ALL people. I'm not going to jump ship just because the other party starts to sing a different tune just to woo me and others like me.

Maybe the party is lost right now (Dems) and trying to find it's way. So what? Does that mean I get behind the hatred of others?

I don't care how they try to pitch it, it is bigotry plain and simple. They can try to pretty it up as much as they like and make it in the name of religion and family--it still stinks to me.

Oh and btw, I've attended a couple of the churches (w/former acquaintances) that are a part of this 'new alliance.' If it had been raining those people would have drowned, their noses were so high up in the air. Pretentious, uppity people that could give less than half of a damn about the basic tenets of the Bible--love, humanity, good will, etc, etc.

They'll get no support from me!

[oasis]

29. The GOP is a party of lies, bigotry and hatred. They showed such mean

spirtedness during the inpeachment and have shown their hypocrisy by condoning the lies that led up to an illegal war.

No church, black or white, should be supporting them. Especially on the basis of morality.

[bliss_eternal]

61. Excellent point, Oasis!

No church, black or white, should be supporting them. Especially on the basis of morality.

[Tomee450]

42. They'll

get no support from me either. However, the Democrats need to act like they value the black vote. How often do you hear anyone other than members of the Black Caucus speak about civil rights. I've heard blacks complain that the only time they see the Democrats is during election time. When Trent Lott made his infamous remarks, the Democrats were slow to respond. When the Democrats did not stand up for the black voters of Florida, that said a lot to black people. I still believe that most African American will not fall for this ploy. I fail to see how black people can benefit from becoming Republicans. The Democrats need to act promptly to counter this attempt by the Republicans to siphon off votes from one its most loyal constituency.

[bliss_eternal]

62. Good point, Tomee. The party should be held accountable.

I am hoping that it will take note of this and think about what you said here--

Quote:
However, the Democrats need to act like they value the black vote. How often do you hear anyone other than members of the Black Caucus speak about civil rights.

What happened in Florida in 2000 and Ohio in 2004 should speak volumes to the party. To some (like Barbara Boxer and those that stood with her) it did. Obviously others like Michael Moore (hence his documentary) also get it--but we need key party leaders to get a clue, too.

:)

[Malva Zebrina]

8. Faith Based Charity welfare money

is behind it, imo.

and is not limited to black churches, but to all of those churches who are hurting for lack of funds.

[xultar]

11. WTF some of those African American ministers have Rolls Royces! Welfare

I THINK NOT!

WELFARE??? Where did that come from?

[Walt Starr]

22. I believe he means the Welfare for Churches

that the "faith based initiative" is all about.

Like the welfare for corporations that the tax plans are all about.

[Malva Zebrina]

86. it comes from having the tax payer money

being doled out to churches few of whom, I am willing to bet, will refuse it. If you will note and stop shouting long enough to read my post, you will see that I said, " not limited to" black churches. That should be obvious to anyone who knows what tax payer support of churches, or welfare, is about. Just stop and think about it intead of shouting.

I think you may have misinterpreted my post. You need to stop long enough to parse it rather than knee jerking your font HTML.

[DalvaThree]

12. Didn't Kerry get a vast majority of the African American vote?

I understand that the leadership takes them for granted, hell our shit hole leadership takes almost all of us for granted, but isn't this more of the doom and gloom we always here - like how Bush was going to maybe take California in 2000? Ha! Boy that sure happened.

[ultraist]

37. Kerry did get a majority but LOST some of our base

We lost ground with Hispanics and African Americans. THAT IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS.

This is the first election where Democrats lost ground with minorities. I'd say that is a RED FLAG.

[DalvaThree]

40. how much?

got any links??

[ultraist]

52. CNN exit polls, articles quoting Democrats, it's all over

Dean talked about it on Saturday. It's BIG amongst Democratic strategists. We lost enough to have it noticed. Democrats are quite worried and making plans to counter the Repukes.

The Repukes have been quoted in articles stating that the only growing populations are the minority populations and they must reach out to them. They made some inroads this election. They are appointing blacks to powerful positions. They are reaching out to black churches. This is part of their strategy.

This isn't just something a few of us have noticed. All of the power player Democratic strategists are talking about this. Articles on it are out there. I don't have any bookmarked but I'm sure a simple search would produce some.

[FreedomAngel82]

71. Just watch the RNC Convention

and compare it to the DNC. How many variety of people do you see at the RNC? I watched the DNC and there's so many various types of people there. I even saw a middle eastern girl there.

[LittleClarkie]

72. All I remember about the RNC crowd was that one woma with 4 chins

and a purple heart booboo bandage on one of them.

Maybe I should join the Republicans. I go to church. I have more than one chin. Maybe that's where I belong.

[oasis]

14. Jesse Lee Patterson is the boob that Bill O'Reilly discovered several

years ago to be an attack dog on Jesse Jackson. He is a slow witted dolt.

[bliss_eternal]

27. Well if the GOP/Right see's him as one w/influence in

his community he may be dangerous. He seems easily seduced by promises of power and position. I wish someone would look a little closer in his background. Something tells me he has some skeletons in his closet.

[oasis]

43. I suspect that he is a creation of the right via Bill O'Reilly. Patterson

was the head of some small time inner city organization but he was a critic of Jesse Jackson. During that period O'Rielly was trying to discredit Jackson and tried numerous times to have Jackson on his show.

I guess O'Reilly was getting too much flack from the black community so he recruited the inarticulate puppet Patterson to do his hatchet work. He had him on his show numerous times.

The Iraq war moved Jesse jackson to the back burner on Fox. Patterson also went by the wayside since Jackson was his assignment.

I'm sure Ruppert Murdoch and some other right wingers continued to secretly fund Patterson in order for him to still be hanging around. He is a total dunce. If you ever listen to him speak or argue a point, you'd immediately know what I was talking about.

[bliss_eternal]

60. Thanks for the info., Oasis. I don't think he was in

attendance for the press conference I saw televised today (as related to the article). It was a pretty pathetic showing, in terms of the press presence there.

I hope that I won't HAVE to ever hear this guy, but I am sure this is wishful thinking on my part.

Thanks again, Oasis.
:)

[seriousstan]

15. Black churches have issues with many liberal views.

The gay issue in the black community is something you don't talk about supporting, especially in the churches. Abortion and churches don't mix. You have to remember these are essentially somewhat fundamentalist churches.

And the elephant in the living room, when we have the power we don't put blacks in the most visible positions. You cannot continue to underestimate the visual of Supreme Court Justices, back to back Secretary of States, National Security Adviser, Education Secretary and several Deputy Secretaries. Regardless of how people feel about their positions, the black community cannot fail to notice their race when they get the air time. Much like the first black actors on TV stirred an instant reaction, even before the subject of how and who the portrayed was even noticed.

This is something that must be addressed! We can not allow the right to paint us as giving lip service to the black community during election cycles and then ignoring them for the remainder of the time. The right is too good at that game.

[DalvaThree]

23. I knew a number of very religious AAs in St. Paul who had no

problem with gay marriage and were pro-choice.

IMO this article is mostly hype.

[seriousstan]

28. Anecdotal and proves nothing. Are you disputing Rep. Owens statement?

"The effort has proved so successful already that Democrats who make up the Congressional Black Caucus are quietly expressing alarm — and planning countermeasures.

"I am frightened by what is happening," said Rep. Major R. Owens, an 11-term Democratic congressman from New York who has been conferring with colleagues in the Congressional Black Caucus. "Our party is in grave danger. This Republican movement is going to expand exponentially unless we do something.""

Saying it isn't so doesn't make it go away. It simply allows the other side to get on top of the situation first. Calling it a conspiracy theory or "mostly hype" is the same as sticking our heads in the sand

[DalvaThree]

39. I'm saying the sky isn't falling

see my post below

[xultar]

33. Alright, sit on your hype and lookie see what happens when 2008 comes

if Chimpy doesn't do anything stoopid they'll get a third term 2 and the black vote will go into the 25%.

[DalvaThree]

38. I'm not saying not to do anything

I'm just saying the sky isn't falling. The right wing hacks have nothing on leaders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, not to mention that the hip hop community supports mostly Democrats (in fact, I don't think they support pubs at all).

Anyone remember Trent Lott?

[bliss_eternal]

34. You may be right. Welcome to DU, DalvaThree!

:hi:

I have friends that are AA that never miss church, and others that are spiritual but rarely go to church--on both sides of the fence they resent the fact that msm is only showing the race to be uber religious, pro-life, conservative homophobes. This group within the article and on the news today ARE NOT representative of the entire race by any means.

During the cbs report, they stated, "72% of African Americans polled are against gay marriage." Who did they poll? Where, and when? Did they just poll black, church goer's, cbs news viewers. How do we know that is representative of the views of ALL African Americans?

This whole thing pisses me off!

[seriousstan]

44. Fine ignore my assertion but you can't ignore all of this......

http://archive.blackvoices.com/articles/daily/index_20010712_1.asp

The Truth About Blacks and Gays

Many of the negative attitudes toward homosexuality come from the black church, generally on the conservative side of cultural issues. According to Dr. Earl Ofari Hutchinson, the church has long preached that homosexuality is "unnatural" and "destructive." This isn't just a black thing. "Many black ministers, as many white Christian fundamentalist ministers, wave the Bible and rail against homosexuality as the defiler of faith and family values," writes Hutchinson.

In addition to religion-based objections to homosexuality, there is also widespread culture-based hostility to the orientation, especially the assertion common in Afrocentric writings that homosexuality is a European invention, a decadent intrusion into the healthy African lifestyle.

Beyond the personal reservations, Dr. Smith says, there is political resentment as well. Whatever the tolerance level toward gays in general, he says, the black community is most irked when gay activists equate sexual orientation with race, homophobia with racism.

"Colin Powell forcefully rejected that analogy when they tried to talk about gays in the military and compare to blacks joining the military," Smith said. "What Powell was saying, is the general sentiment felt amongst most blacks."


Dems letting the GOP split religious black community
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/12/16/131425/85

Pastor Thou Art Loosed

Eleven states passed amendments to their constitution to define marriage as between a man and a woman. In Ohio, Mississippi, Georgia and Michigan, Black Americans overwhelmingly supported these amendments.
http://www.lesbianation.com/article.cfm?section=5&id=5154

[bliss_eternal]

65. How very sad... thanks for sharing this excerpt,

seriousstan. It's an interesting read.

It saddens me a great deal. It would be nice if the conservative religious communities, be they black, white, blue or grey would take the time to preach some love, compassion and understanding as opposed to judgement and self hatred.

There is an epidemic of black men that are gay and sneaking around pretending they aren't--totally in denial about who and what they are. Who are they hurting? Themselves and the women they marry as part of the 'role' they are trying to play as 'strong, upstanding, black men.' Maybe if the community wasn't so adamant about this lifestyle being WRONG, there wouldn't be an epidemic of self hatred and HIV. Because while these men are 'playing the role of married loving husband and father' they are still having sex with men.

Unprotected sex, because to protect themselves would mean they are actually engaging in this activity--which they don't want to own. So they stay in denial--and possibly take with them HiV to their wives.

Would this epidemic exist if these communites didn't continue to teach people to hate themselves if they are gay? Or tell them that a man is this or that and can't possibly be in this kind of package? I don't know...

[ultraist]

31. BINGO! WAKE UP CALL TO DEMOCRATS!

I agree with your remarks, seriousstan:
"And the elephant in the living room, when we have the power we don't put blacks in the most visible positions. You cannot continue to underestimate the visual of Supreme Court Justices, back to back Secretary of States, National Security Adviser, Education Secretary and several Deputy Secretaries. Regardless of how people feel about their positions, the black community cannot fail to notice their race when they get the air time. Much like the first black actors on TV stirred an instant reaction, even before the subject of how and who the portrayed was even noticed.

This is something that must be addressed! We can not allow the right to paint us as giving lip service to the black community during election cycles and then ignoring them for the remainder of the time."

###
Dean said essentially the same thing last Saturday on the DNC Chair panel.

Blacks see other blacks in power positions thanks to the Republicans and the Republicans are reaching out to them to STEAL PART OF OUR BASE that WE NEED TO WIN. Dean essentially said this on Saturday.

Democrats better get on the ball! Republicans are reaching out to blacks and offering them something, WHAT ARE THE DEMOCRATS DOING?

[Aussie_expat]

41. IMHO

Ex-Klansman Byrd calling Rice "Missy" and the like doesn't help either.

Sometimes I just wonder WTF are we doing to ourselves?

[brentspeak]

49. And yet there's some truth in that perception

Some Democratic candidates DO ignore the black community until election-time rolls around. This is ridiculous. If Dean is made DNC chair, it's going to be up to him to get the ball rolling on that matter. Trouble is, being from Vermont, Dean has no experience dealing with large black communities.

And as far as gay rights and abortion are concerned, something has to give within the Democratic Party; many black churches simply won't stay Democratic if the party continues to trumpet those causes so prominantly. And as the black churches go, so goes the majority of the black vote.

[sally343434]

16. Yes, and how much are they paying these ministers?

These guys make out quite handsomely with their hand in the "faith-based" slush fund.

[Al-CIAda]

17. Conservative Christian Rep: Are "Paid For" Christians Voting Hypocrites?

A Conservative Christian Republican asks: Are "Paid For" Christians Hypocrites in how they Vote?
by Karl W. B. Schwarz
(Friday 12 November 2004)
snip-
------------
Maybe if Christians would take the time to understand the correlation between “drug smuggling, drug trafficking, and US government backed mortgages and money laundering using such government bonds” they would not vote so blindly next time.

snip-
Are Your Tax Dollars Funding Pat Robertson?
Taking a closer look at Operation Blessing International
“Lynn cited televangelist, Pat Robertson's comments on the 700 Club that an angry God had allowed the 9/11 terrorist attacks to succeed in retribution against a corrupt American society.What surprised many commentators at the time was that much of the criticism of the Bush initiative was coming from the religious right itself, including Pat Robertson. Early this year, Robertson denounced the Bush proposal, warning that the program is a "Pandora's Box" that could make legitimate religious charities dependent on government and that the government would end up financing "cults that brainwash" prospective adherents. He went on to tell his 700 Club television audience that the groups getting such funding "will begin to be nurtured, if I can use that term, on federal money, and then they can't get off of it." He added, "It'll be like a narcotic; they can't then free themselves later on."All the more surprising then, that among the very first organizations to be funded by the Bush administration's new program is Operation Blessing International, a Virginia Beach charity created by Robertson. This group is to receive $500,000 in the first wave of grants to be distributed under the faith-based initiative. The award to Operation Blessing is one of 25 announced on October 3rd by Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy G. Thompson. Aside from the irony involved in Robertson's own organization applying for and then accepting such "addictive" government funding, one needs to take a closer look at the finances of Operation Blessing International.”
------------
Now, imagine what you just read. Pat Robertson comes out condemning Bush and the 9-11 attacks as being “on a sinful nation” and then turns around, applies for the federal money he defines as “addictive”, accepts it, and then advises Christians to go out and vote for Bush on the abortion and gay marriage issues. I wonder if it has occurred to Pat to condemn the rampant corruption, greed, killing, empire building, deceit, fiscal irresponsibility, Corporatization of our government and fascism that has taken hold of our government and our nation?
As far as I am concerned, Pat Robertson’s counsel was bought and paid for, subject to impeachment on that issue alone, and I did not listen to him at all. I was paying attention to matters that are undermining this nation from within and without and none of them have anything whatsoever to do with abortion or gay marriage. They have to do with evil, corruption, greed, and fascism, and this nation acting in a manner that is most Un-Godly all the way up to George W. Bush.

-----
As far as I am concerned, Pat Robertson’s counsel was bought and paid for, subject to impeachment on that issue alone, and I did not listen to him at all. I was paying attention to matters that are undermining this nation from within and without and none of them have anything whatsoever to do with abortion or gay marriage. They have to do with evil, corruption, greed, and fascism, and this nation acting in a manner that is most Un-Godly all the way up to George W. Bush.
-----
Just to make sure he got the Christian vote, the federal money flowed to the same ministers that then voiced loudly to Christians all across America – vote for George W. Bush. Maybe they just do not know anything about business, how government works, how businesses work, what evil and greed looks like. While wrapping up this story, I came across an article about Fraud in the name of God and one person was claiming that the total overhead of Pat Robertson’s Operation Blessing International was only 1.4% of the money that came in, so 98.6% of it was going to help the needy. However, upon closer inspection it was over 30% and that organization feeds the money to other faith based programs that have their own overhead and cost of doing business.
---
Maybe they will use their own heads instead of letting others fill it up with falsehoods, intentionally misleading hype, fears that are nothing but fear mongering, and think for a change. God gave us all a brain; it amazes me how few have yet to learn how to use it.
Please sign the petition and the Justicefor9-11.org petition if you too demand the truth and justice regarding September 11, 2001. There is much truth to be found and we have a National Capitol that is full of people that have an aversion to the truth. It is time that we as American Citizens get to the bottom of what they fear so much and why they fear the truth.


http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/11295

[hootinholler]

91. Ole Pat ain't the only one on the dole...

That's what the faith-based initiative is, buying the Christian vote. I wish I'd bookmarked it. There have been huge payouts, one got over 1 Mil to administer the distribution of significanty more. Happened in Fl.

-Hoot

[independentchristian]

24. People who don't know anything do stupid things

The modern day GOP is corporate greed hidden behind a veil of Christian rhetoric, and should be described as such...

[seriousstan]

32. So calling them "know nothings" and "stupid" helps?

I guess you didn't notice how calling people stupid and sheeple didn't work too well for this last time around. I actually think it motivates and mobilizes the other side. Doing this kind of name calling to our own base might not make them Reps. but it will keep them home.

[xultar]

35. That's what I'm saying. The attitude around here even if it is @ minimum

levels in the real world will those voters away.

The GOP found a hole and is going for it.

The way we talk about people who are on the fence where choice is concerned will make Black folks feel they have to choose between Liberals and God and they will choose GOD every time.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Well, if I have to choose between a party that is going to sell out

to would-be theocrats, Flat-Earth Fundamentalist wackjobs, and people who are pathologically incapable of understanding the concept of Separation of Church and State, and registering as a Green, I will choose GREEN...

every time.

[xultar]

77. Well why not just go Green? I'm trying to be positive so hear me out.

Sometimes we seem to want to try to do things the way others want instead of doing what we should do. Maybe Green is for you. Don't struggle if Green most closely matches your issues and views give it a try. Most states don't have us register our parties so why not just read up, study the issues and the candidates and go Green. Vote Green when you can.

[Warren DeMontague]

87. First off, my local Democratic Reps usually mirror my views.

Seeing as I live in a pretty liberal part of the Country. In instances where the Green candidate is superior and it's not a situation of potentially throwing the race to a Republican, I have voted for and will again consider voting for the Green candidate.

However, what I am talking about is a larger shift in party allegiance-- and as a lifelong, committed and hard-working supporter of the Democratic party, that is not something I take lightly or toss around without a great deal of thought. Believe me, if the party starts losing folks such as myself (due to it's seeming never-ending quest to figure out which core principles to jettison... in pursuit of the ever-elusive electability factor) there's no question it's in deep, deep trouble.

I'm listening to what you're saying, but unless I'm hearing it wrong, you are talking about people who are "on the fence" with regards to choice and abortion. Well, hey- one of the wonderful things about this country is that no one who doesn't want an abortion has to get one. Furthermore, no one has to even like abortion-- and if they're really interested in preventing as many surgical abortions as possible (and who isn't) another thing they can do is work tirelessly (like some of us do) for universal access to safe, effective birth control, access to morning after contraception, and effective sex education that includes discussion of contraception. Those are all smart, proven ways that we as a nation could cut down on the rates of abortion. Unfortunately, the religious right isn't really interested in any solution that doesn't involve throwing doctors and women in jail, hectoring people to stop f*cking, and quite probably criminalizing most -if not all- forms of birth control along the way... Sorry, but from where I sit it's hard to think "positively" about reasoning with folks who worry incessantly about the humanity of a micron-sized fertilized egg, but can't be bothered with 45 Million born humans who have no health insurance.

On the other issue- apparently many African American churches, perhaps reflecting views of parts of the African American community in general, have problems with gays and gay rights.. I don't even know where to begin with that, other than saying that I think someone needs to do some long overdue soul-searching on the issue, and it's not the elements of the Democratic Party who have consistently stood up for fair treatment and equal rights for gays.

[independentchristian]

54. No, it's actually, not going to help, but it's true in this case

If "Christians" actually know the bible as they say they do, how in the world can they think either party is more moral than the other?

The GOP is all talk. Like I said, they are are corporate greed masked behind a "veil" of Christian rhetoric. They talk a good game, that's it, and they don't even do it well, as if "gay marriage and abortion" should be the only issues of importance to Christians.

Any Christian with any sense should know better.

[ultraist]

45. That's right! The Democrats LOST part of their base because they...

"don't know anything" and did "stupid things." The knife cuts both ways.

CAN WE AFFORD TO LOSE EVEN 4-5% of our BASE? I THINK NOT!

Let's HOPE that Dean gets DNC Chair, at least he is not in denial here and has the support of people who know better like Webb.

SHEESH.

[Mountainman]

48. Well when they can't go to the doctor, or can't get social security they

can feel good that gays aren't married.

[ClarkUSA]

50. Dean Better Get On Top Of This Soon With More Than Saying "Show Up"

Cripes, this is a seriously damaging development. We have to inspire people of all colors to want to show up. That's why Hilary has come out in favor of faith-based initiatives.

CBC member Owens is trying but the Party muscle is not behind him the way the RNC is doing. Even with election reform, if the RNC makes even small inroads, we lose.

And the GOP is planning for 2006 and 2008 already.

[Clarks_Babe]

51. Showing up is a good start

It is more than the party has done in red states for years.

[ClarkUSA]

55. Slogans are not going to impress the guy on the street or black ministers

I am not impressed by them either. I did Voter Outreach in a black community churches for this past election and the ministers and parishioners are very hip
to the idea that white liberals only pay attention to them every four years and just for their votes.

Does anyone know whether Dean has spoken about this during his regional meetings during the Q & A's?

[ultraist]

56. Dean spoke out about it on Saturday, right before Webb endorsed him

I think Dean will handle this the way Clinton did, reach out to black leaders in the community and network with them. Dean doesn't need to be the "expert" he simply needs to collaborate and turn over some power to the experts and the leaders in the black community. That is the most respectful way to handle it. They know their community better than whites do.

Dean has acknowledged the problem exists. We can only wait and see if he acts on it.It's certainly in his best interest as Chair to do so and to build the base, rather than sit back, deny a problem exists and watch it crumble.

If we wait until the "sky is falling" it will be to late.

[ClarkUSA]

58. "Dean will handle this the way Clinton did"

I'll be waiting and watching. I am a huge admirer of President Bill Clinton's affinity for African-Americans and vice versa.

Nothing we do will be enough if we lose the black vote. Election reform will be worthless if the votes aren't there.

Oh, and flipping through the channels, I notice that Pat Robertson has a black woman named Kristi Watts on The 700 Club. The GOP think of everything.

[SoCalifer]

59. Hmmm

Born and being a resident of So-Cal all my life, I would have to say that IMHO opinion you don't have to worry about that. I have not yet to this date met an Afro-American here that doesn't despise Republicans.

[ultraist]

63. Apparently there are black Republicans in CA and more considering the GOP

snip from OP:
"The effort will be visible today at the Crenshaw Christian Center, one of Los Angeles' biggest black churches, headed by televangelist Frederick K.C. Price. More than 100 African American ministers..."

[Nothing Without Hope]

64. I think this is pro-GOP spin - the truth is closer to this story

"Black Baptists for 1st time in History Unite & Oppose Smirk Policies"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3028916
At this thread there is a link to the important Jan 29 story in the Chicago Tribune.

The most divisive, disastrous (p)resident in history is stimulating some historical unification -- in opposition. And it isn't only the Baptists - this is a major movement.

[bliss_eternal]

66. Thank you for this article link!

It's always nice to have another perspective! The truth is usually somewhere in between...

It was interesting that during the report on this on CBS today, there wasn't much media present at the 'announcement' of this 'group.'

Not sure what that means, but maybe it means they aren't getting much attention about this at this point?

Thanks again for the article link!

[Nothing Without Hope]

73. You're welcome. I think merh, who wrote the other post,

is going to be putting together a more extensive post and/or article about this subject. Her boss (I assume a professor or social/political expert of some sort) is closely involved in watching these movements and will have a clearer perspective on this than the CBS talking heads.

As you say, the truth probably lies between. I'm betting the CBS story omitted any mention of the REAL story, the larger movement of many black churches to unite against the blivet** and his policies.

The Voting Rights Act comes up for renewal in 2007. This is an extremely disputatious subject and you can bet the blivet** administration will be trying to pull its teeth while proclaiming the opposite of the truth. I'm hoping merh or her boss will write about that related subject as well. It's central to what is going on and is not well understood by many (certainly not by me).

[Sgent]

75. Big surprise

That there are few to no african american bush supporters in Los Angeles -- there aren't very many white supporters either.

That being said, bush got 8% of the AA vote in 2000, and 14% this year. AA and hispanics put Bush into office a second time.

If the Republicans continue on this trend, the Democrats are history as the "big tent" party.

One other note -- talk of abolishing right to work laws is an instant vote loser in the South. In my state (Mississippi), until 2 years ago, Democrats were in charge of the legislature and Govenor, and any such propsal got walloped.

[LittleClarkie]

76. God I hope so, I'm sitting here in tears just thinking about it

It feels so helpless to think that minorities would turn to the people who suppressed their vote. How could we stop such a thing if people can't see. I'm hoping with all my heart you are right and this is misinformation and spin.

Can you imagine? "We're poor, we're unemployed, we're not sure our vote counted, but damn we sure do like that George Bush fellow and his values."

How do you get people to wake the fuck up if this is true. Please let your story be the norm and this other one be the aberration.

[Q]

78. But what did the Democrats do to fight for civil rights...

...or to make sure their votes were counted? The answer is the Dem party did nothing in 2000 and 2004. Why should Blacks be loyal to a party that left them at the mercy of the rascist RWingers?

[LittleClarkie]

81. Well, the answer is certainly NOT to joing the racist RWingers, is it?

Does THAT sound like a plan to YOU?

And to say they did nothing is an overstatement. The attempted was made. Observers and lawyers and such were out there. Lawsuits are still pending regardless. Is Conyers not a Democrat? Are the other Congressmen who stood up are not Democrats? Is Barbara Boxer not a Democrat? Even Kerry tried to speak out on MLK day, and once again, as is usually the case no matter what, he was accused of politicking. He can't even visit a grave without that call going out, so what the hell. Even so, he spoke about the suppression, if not the fraud. These people did nothing?

Yes they did. Was it enough? Once again no it wasn't. We got gamed by the Republicans. Again. They had to do an even bigger number on us than last time to make sure they won. I hope they're proud of their "values."

But the answer is NOT to join those who did you wrong against those who at least recognize there is a problem. What is this, the Stockholm Syndrome?! Are they getting all chummy with our captors? That's just nuts, I'm sorry.

[Nothing Without Hope]

84. The blivet** cartel thinks minorities are stupid. Oops--miscalculation!

I truly believe that this story about all the black churches being drawn to the holiness of the blivet**'s cause is cynical PROPAGANDA, hype designed to distort the truth. Whether the corporate media knowingly pushed such distortion or whether they unthinkingly took dictation from the adminstration as usual, I don't know. But I believe the truth is going to come out, and when it does, it will be seen here early on.

There are many reasons for the cartel to push the false idea that people who are actually opposed to it are supporters. It confuses those who don't have a line to the truth and it prepares the way for more stolen elections and other fraud. To deflect suspicions, this kind of groundwork is needed to explain obvious discrepancies in vote numbers from what is expected from demographics.

And the Voting Rights Act is coming up for renewal in 2007. Got to prepare for that too - the blivet** will want to pull all the teeth from it while bragging how he's doing minorities a big favor. They're preparing the ground for these fights with propaganda and staged publicity campaigns, everything they can think of.

There will always be sellouts who trade their souls for money and power, which is what the cartel offers. (We know that they use blackmail and other threats as well.) Witness Blackwell. But a huge movement to oppose the criminals who have stolen the government has started and we need to do what we can to

GET THE TRUTH OUT!!!!

[mattclearing]

79. More proof that gullibility is not a racial trait. n/t

[JunkYardDogg]

82. Bottom Line-The Bush Reich is Buying the Black Churches & Pastors

Out of 80 posts on this thread, maybe there are only 5 posts about The BushReich buying Black Churches and Pastors with FaithBased Money.
Exploiting the trust given the Pastors as Community and Moral Leaders,these So-Called leaders are taking the BushReich Bribes
and distorting and perverting the philosophy and work of Martin Luther King, the Civil Rights Movement, when it really meant something, and what is really important to the Black community.
On MLK:
They are using the perverted rationale that because MLK was a Preacher ( i.e. man of God) that MLK would be on the side of the Christian Taliban.
Bullshit]
During the week of MLK's birthday, on the local University station,
the Political Program Hosts played a bunch of speeches by MLK.
Especially impressive was a speech given by MLK in April, 1968, it was almost one hour long, about VietNam. One could easily have interchanged VietNam for Iraq and the speech would have been just as relevant today as back then. It was an incredible speech.
Now I never really listened intensely to MLK speeches in the '60's, mainly because we didn't need much more motivation than we were giving ourselves, and we were making the speeches and starting riots at our College.
However, today, it should be mandatory to go back and listen to MLK's speeches, as it is under a completely different perspective.
After listening to MLK's speech, and then hearing Mullah Falwell tell Jesse Jackson, on Crossfire, that MLK would have supported the Christian Taliban and the Iraq war, solely because they were/are both Preachers, ("Men of God"), I discovered exactly what the difference was between MLK and the Christian Taliban Extremists, and
exactly what the Bought and Paid for Black Pastors are deceiving their community about.
In MLK's speeches, I never heard him even mention "Jesus Christ".
In MLK's speeches, the Human condition, i.e. freedom, liberty, self respect, self determinism, was more important than the religion.
The human individual had more value than the religion. The religion
existed to better mankind, not mankind existed to better the religion. The religion was not more important than mankind.
Under the values of MLK, man was not subservient to some Savior.
Under MLK, the values of MLK's Christianity were meant to end the subservience of the human existence., not to promote it.
On the Paid Off Black Pastors Endorsement of BushReich "Values":
Why is Gay marriage, and Homosexually in General, so important to the Black community??
How does this issue effect each and every individual within the Black community?? Probably little to nothing.
Compared to The Crack Cocaine Culture and Black on Black violence,
which definitely effects a large proportion of the Black Community.

read the L.A. Times article:
"Bush Rewarded by Black Pastors' Faith; His stands, backed by Funding of ministries, redefined the GOP's image with some clergy"

"The political benefits are unbelievable," says the Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the conservative Traditional Values Coalition (news - web sites), which helped shape the administration's faith-based strategy and the GOP's outreach to black Christian voters. "The Democrats ought to have their heads examined for voting against this." ...


The money that flowed to Daniels' church was part of a broader effort inspired by Bush's contention that religious groups can do a better job than government in providing such services as counseling, education and drug treatment. In 2003, the administration awarded more than $1 billion to hundreds of faith-based groups, some of which hadn't received such public funds in the past. ...


The White House adamantly denies that the faith initiative is a political tool. But the program has provoked criticism that the GOP is seeking to influence new supporters, especially African Americans, with taxpayer funds. The Rev. Timothy McDonald of Atlanta, a prominent black minister with Democratic ties, dubbed the program an "attempt to identify new leadership in the black community and use the money to prop these people up." ...

read more of the article-
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/latimests/2005...



GRRRRR!

This is what we fought for in the '60's??

[blm]

83. RevMoon has been spreading big $$$ to black ministers for years.

The GOP just ramped up their efforts by using the antigay wedge.

[sampsonblk]

88. This should not surprise anyone.

The churches - black and white - are trying to make their voices heard. Getting heard by the Dems doesn't amount to much these days. The party doesn't even seem to have much loyalty to its constituents or to the issues that made the party (once) great. Everything and everyone is optional.

[Obviousman]

89. We are truly fucked

I doubt I will ever see democrats in power again in my lifetime

[Gin]

90. It's all about show me the money.....how soon they forget..

[DoveTurnedHawk]

92. "What a Crock"?

Black folks represent this party's most loyal constituency. We cannot take them for granted, and we ignore the issues presented by this article at our peril. Discriminating against gay folks and/or supporting the same-sex bans are simply not options for us, but there are other ways of defeating the Republican overtures and standing up for a community that has always stood up for us.

DTH

[vet 65 69]

93. here what bush thinks of the black vote in ky

http://tinyurl.com/46nkw

[Warren DeMontague]

94. I'm all for supporting the African American constituency

It's supporting the constituency of would-be "Christians" -of whatever ethnicity- who are gung-ho determined to impose their faith on the rest of the country that I have a problem with.

Maybe someone should have been fretting about "losing" African Americans when, at the behest of the DLC, we de-emphasised economic justice issues in favor of trying to appeal to the SUV and Minivan crowd.