I am really disturbed by a recent quote by Donnie Fowler

[ProudToBeLiberal]

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1022630,00.html

Now Fowler thinks he has the inside shot to unseat Dean in much the same way that Kerry eclipsed the front-runner in 2004. "Inevitability is dead, just like it died in 2004," said Fowler in an interview.
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also if you go to his website www.changetheparty.com the quote is on the front page. In my oppinion this exudes arrogance.

[Kerrytravelers]

1. Don't they all say stuff like that?

NOt to belittle how POed you are, but in a campaign, they all say such crap.

That said, God I hope it's Dean.

[lancdem]

4. That's my take

Talk is cheap.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

42. Is the death of inevitability inevitable? (nt)

[dpbrown]

2. Fowler is the son of former DNC Chair, running as the "anti-Dean"

He worked on Clark's campaign when they were trying to position Clark as the "anti-Dean."

The only thing Fowler has going for him is that he's not Dean.

He's an insider, and the insiders love him.

His relationship to the Internet and activism is just to try to cash in on Dean's ability to use it to organize.

Choosing Fowler over Dean is like choosing the guy who said, "That's a good idea" over the guy who had the idea.

What a boneheaded move it would be to choose Fowler.

[Guaranteed]

5. So fucking right on. nt

[DemDogs]

12. Fowler and the internet

Geez, you all have to stop this. Whoever you want, let's quit set ourselves on fire. And Dean is not "the guy who had the idea." Kerry used the internet in his Weld race in previously unheard of ways. There were a number of books out about the emerging use of the internet in politics. It was NOT Dean's idea. Even Dean's website and online activities were not Dean's idea. His first website was lousy. Trippi was no help; he still doesn't really understand the internet. You don't have to like Donnie Fowler to admit that he worked with the tech crowd for several years BEFORE the internet came to Dean. (Let's be honest, the internet came to Dean, not the other way around.)
Fowler did the grass roots on-line Clark campaign, using all the same tools and manipulations (don't bother flaming, we all know them) all the candidates do, and when the Big Boys from the Clinton Camp came in, he left in a huff. What I object to most about Fowler is that he aired his laundry about that departure, which made it seem like the Clark campaign was more about his online efforts than about the candidate, which maybe it was for him.
But Donnie Fowler was working with the internet long before Dean sent his first email.

[cali]

13. You're right

It's not the internet. What Dean did- and IMO it springs directly out of the Vermont tradition of direct democracy- is lose the top down approach and really listen and work with the grassroots. One thing's certain: Dean has the ability to excite people and bring them into the party, not just to vote, but take up activism. He's often stated that you get a D for voting, dems need to do more than that. Fowler doesn't hold a candle to Dean when it comes to mobilizing and exciting people.

[Eloriel]

15. Exactamundo

And that touches on the big difference in how Dean "used" the internet as well. All the other campaigns adopted some of what Dean did, or had implemented it already. But for the Dean campaign -- and to a large extent the internet DID come TO him -- they had the brilliance (and humility!!) to let it happen rather than insist on directing it.

that's a huge difference, and I love your comment about "direct democracy" because that's what the Dean campaign was all about. It was synergism all over the place. Instead of top-down directives from "Campagin HQ" it was mult-directional AND, as Dean is wont to point out, they let go of the power to control the grassroots and in the process enabled and facilitated an incredibly energized, creative, productive and in many ways effective campaign in pretty much all 50 states.

I heard Kerry brag about his grassroots in this campaign. Fortunately, he also had some nice things to say about Dr. Dean. That's good because a lot of those grassroots he can brag about were a direct and immediate "gift" of the Dean campaign.

[KoKo]

49. Absolutely Eloriel. Without the Dean folks (and Kucinich activists) most

of the "red states" wouldn't have had a person on the ground working for Kerry/Edwards at the end. And right now the Dean/Kucinich folks are a total thorn in the sides of the Dem heirarchy here in NC. I imagine it's the same in some of the other so-called "Red States," where the creaking Dem apparatis doesn't even use computers because they just never needed to....

[LittleClarkie]

24. Oh I remember someone being upset that Clark had abandoned the grassroots

who had recruited him in the first place. Was that Fowler?

[ClarkUSA]

26. Fowler never said that.

[Cheswick2.0]

28. yes it was Fowler and a few others

[ClarkUSA]

38. You have the facts wrong. Fowler never said that. Ask him.

Or better yet, ask Clark's grassroots. C'est moi.

Ciao.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. never said what?

I am not putting words into Fowlers mouth. However we all know what happened with Donnie and being let go from Clarks campaign and we all know he talked about it and was quite unhappy. Who could blame him after the big money insiders cost him a job.
Where'd he go next... he ran the MI camp for Kerry and would have lost MI if not for ACT and Move-on and the imerging power of DFA members who have organized parts of the state.
The consensus on MI is that it was won for Kerry dispite Fowler, not because of him.

[dpbrown]

51. It's not "working with the Internet"

It's making the equation work.

Dean made the equation (Meetups, Fundraising, Empowering Activism) work. Fowler later complained as part of Clark's team that they weren't doing it (what Dean had done so well) enough. He then left Clark's team in a huff.

I stand by my contention that the difference between Fowler and Dean is that Dean is a doer and Fowler is an observer.

And I'll add an observation: Fowler is like Roger Moe here in Minnesota - a good old boy who probably "deserves" to move ahead (unfortunately, at the expense of us all).

Moe was picked at the last minute to be the "stand-in" contestant against Pawlenty, when there were already at least two outstanding female contenders. But since Moe had been Majority Leader of the State Senate or some such thing, he was vaulted over the candidates who should have run, and promptly fell flat on his face and lost the election.

[Finding Rawls]

17. I don't believe that Fowler derserves those words

He's spent most of his adult life working for the Democratic Party. I feel comfortable saying that he's probably done more for the Party and for the country than you have. I have nothing factual to base this upon, but I'd say it's a safe wager.

If you prefer Dean, fine, but lay off.

[LittleClarkie]

25. Eh, somebody around here work with him in Michigan

and said all he was really good for was showing up to take the credit in their organization. The had to get stuff done despite his organization, not because of their help. Based on that alone I'm not keen.

And seeing him today, I must say he didn't impress me. There wasn't alot of depth to his talk. He just kept saying that the Dems have a choice between newness or "same old, same old." Considering who he was saying it about, that seemed absurd.

[ClarkUSA]

39. I'm sure for every good opinion there's a bad one for each candidate...

just ask Joe Trippi.

I saw Fowler on TV twice. Once he was so-so, the other time he was much better.

I think each candidate has their strengths and weaknesses, their experience pluses and minuses.

Forutnately, Roemer has no chance of winning.

[JNelson6563]

46. Here's some info

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=159x1595#1602

[Finding Rawls]

47. He's now responsible for every individuals action in Michigan? NT

[JNelson6563]

54. Nope

Just his own corner of the world which was coordinated campaign. It was a debacle. From one end of the state to the other. They were kicked out of Dem HQs all over the place. That's what happens when a transient applies a scorched earth policy and those that live there have to live with the consequences. They basically kick out the hordes who arrive and consume everything in sight as well as alienating the supporters.

Fowler couldn't manage a state effort. Do you think he's ready for the the big time? We here in MI know he's not.

Julie

[KoKo]

50. It's DU'er Julie, who worked her butt off for Kerry/Edwards and knows

the deal about what went on.

[KittyWampus]

18. Nope, Choosing TRIPPI Would Be Like Choosing The Guy With The Idea

[ClarkUSA]

22. Good point that many forget...

And now Trippi has endorsed Rosenberg? Wonder how they got together....
I'd love to know the story behind that one.

That was a real surprise. Ouch.

[Cheswick2.0]

29. Chosing Clark Would be like chosing the security guard of the guy

with the idea.

[ClarkUSA]

36. There she goes again, #1 Clarkhating basher!

Message Rules:

"Stay on topic. Don't jump into an unrelated discussion and introduce a barely-relevant tangent in order to bring up your pet issue."


:tinfoilhat:

[Cheswick2.0]

44. LOLO,, off topic Dean bashing will get you Clark comments

that's just the way it works. Take the plank out of your own eye and then get back to me.

[ClarkUSA]

21. I thought Martin Frost was the anti-Dean last week when Newsweek said so

now it's Time Inc. saying Fowler is. They love the term, don't they? Certainly makes it more exciting for the rest of us and sells advertising space.

Wonder who the anti-Dean will be next week? Anyone who is running against Dean will automatically become the anti-Dean to the media. Before 2004, Dean never was considered an outsider nor was anyone running against him an "anti-Dean" because he didn't have an audience that pays the bills and reads the headlines and gets the hits on their websites so they can sell advertising space.

By the way, Fowler lasted all of 3 weeks before he got fired/quit Clark04 and it wasn't pretty.

That being said, I don't have a horse in this race and could care less anymore who wins as long as it's not Roemer.

[Cheswick2.0]

45. The party insiders will throw anyone at Dean......even Clark

when they are afraid of losing control of the money and power that goes along with being big shots.

[Tinoire]

23. Good post. The guys a real dick. n/t

[Radical Activist]

33. So it was Dean's idea to use the net?

Or was it the campaign organizers who worked for Dean? Dean was the candidate, not the organizer. A real organizer like Fowler is better equipped for the job than a showhorse like Dean.

[ClarkUSA]

35. It was Trippi

But Gore invented the Internet.

Sorry, couldn't resist. :evilgrin:

[lancdem]

3. I wouldn't worry about it

Just keep working for Dean. I think Fowler's playing a little psychological game.

[Goldeneye]

6. I don't like the way that sentence is clipped.

I'd like to see the whole quote. If he meant it the way it came off, its a little bit cocky.


Someone who knows this stuff: How many state chairs endorsed Fowler vs. Dean? How much pull do they have over the actual decision?

[autorank]

7. Dean learned, he won't get screwed this time by the "in crowd."

The "in crowd" wants a job. Dean and Clark believe in a cause. Big difference. Screw the "in crowd" and their loser consultants.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

8. Fool me once shame on you

Fool me... can't... can't uh... fool me again. I fell for it and Kerry disappointed. Not this time.

Voting DNC Member contact info:

http://drafthoward.com/index.php?id=19

http://platform.smartcampaigns.com/DNCMemberState

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Current_DNC_Members

[Guaranteed]

9. I've put it off, but no more.

I'm writing them tonight.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

10. remember only the dnc members in your state nt

[Kerrytravelers]

11. The California DNC reps came to speak with us...

their email address is [e-mail]

Email them, but remember, they are really busy, so keep it short and stick to why we want Dean, not why we hate everyone else.

When they came to talk with us, everyone only had two minutes to state their cse. Two minutes! Hardly enough time. So keep the emails really short!

[Lefty48197]

14. I thought Donnie Fowler looked pretty good at the forum today.

.

[hellhathnofury]

16. I heard Fowler speak at a 21st Century Democrats training session...

and I wasn't too impressed.

Problems with Fowler:
1. He's young and it shows.
2. His resume is a bit overstated. He ran field operations for Gore nationally(?) and we all know how that went. He wasn't with Clark that long.
3. As much as we all like playing the "I'm Southern" card in candidates, it's not a selling point for DNC Chair.

[KittyWampus]

19. Man, Some DU'ers Are DESPERATE To Find Something To Trash Fowler

for.

Sad really.

Why not find out what campaigns he's worked on and see what's he has accomplished.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

20. why so hostile all of a sudden :(... nt

[DFLforever]

27. I've heard from Michigan Dems Fowler was inept in Michigan

The Kerry operation there was so poor, it was a miracle he won the state.

[Cheswick2.0]

30. He lost ground in MI

Gore did better than Kerry in MI. People who worked for Kerry in MI said they did it despite Fowler. Apparently he is a real asshole and difficult to deal with . Other people there say they would have lost if not for ACT and Move-on.

He managed the field operation for Gore in 2000 and IT WAS REALLY BAD. He didn't even have an office where I live in a heavily democratic area of a swing state. We had one Gore staff person come to town 2 days before the election.

He's not qualifed.

[Radical Activist]

34. Standard operating procedure

anyone considered a threat to Dean must be attacked. That's the spirit of the movement.
Notice how their chosen second choice guy doesn't get attacked so much.

[Radical Activist]

31. Why is this disturbing?

Fowler seems like a good man for the job. I hear Dean people say they want to make the party more grass-roots, use internet fundraising more etc. Well, Fowler is the guy who knows how to do that. He's a grass-roots organizer. Dean was just the candidate. Dean isn't the guy who put his campaign organization together. Fowler is the expert at doing all the things I hear Dean supporters say they want done at the DNC.

A southerner would be nice too. Once again, Dean says we need to appeal to the south, but a man from the south is much better prepared to do that than an ivy league new england millionaire who is liberal on social issue but conservative on economic issues. Guess what, we lose the south by being liberal on social issues, and we will win it by being liberal/populist on economic issues. That's the exact opposite of Dean. If Dean means all the things he says, he should drop out and endorse Fowler.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

40. Fowler will be even better... under Dean's leadership

[Radical Activist]

48. four legs good, two legs bad!

You couldn't even make an argument to support that statement? Why bother posting?

[CanOfWhoopAss]

52. The argument...

...is throughout the thread. All that Fowler has going for him is he is an insider and the "anti-Dean". Fowler is good but he is not ready and Dean is a better grassroots organizer and sharper all around.

Fowler is a southerner and Dean is not... so what? Reagan wasn't a southerner but he had southern appeal. Fowler is not ready and may never be. So he managed to win Michigan but under Gore he couldn't help overwhelmingly win Florida so that it couldn't be stolen. He didn't help him win Tennessee or any other southern state.

"His relationship to the Internet and activism is just to try to cash in on Dean's ability to use it to organize.
Choosing Fowler over Dean is like choosing the guy who said, "That's a good idea" over the guy who had the idea."--dpbrown

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1548002&mesg_id=1548021&page=

[ieoeja]

53. I disagree on the South.

"Guess what, we lose the south by being liberal on social issues, and we will win it by being liberal/populist on economic issues."

I do agree that we lose the south being liberal on certain social issues. But I think we win the Rural (more accurate than "the South") by driving a wedge between the Religious Right and the Get-Government-Off-My-Back crowd on other social issues.

These latter gents just want to be left alone to enjoy themselves. THAT is as liberal a sentiment as it gets. However, when the topic of being left alone is raised, Republicans start discussing issues wherein the Democrats are less liberal and Democrats start defending their position instead of hitting Republicans on issues where the Republicans are less liberal. So Republicans are actually winning that demographic by arguing in favor of liberalism on certain issues. They just rarely** use the "L" word to describe their position.

**"Rarely" because the NRA for one does repeatedly claim that they support "liberal gun laws".

[loudsue]

32. I've called everyone on the N.C. Committee to endorse Dean....

Unfortunately in N.C., our Democratic Party has been heavily infiltrated with the neocons and corporatists, so I have a feeling many of them will go with whomever the DLC/NDN wants to endorse. The DLC and NDN are DETERMINED to swing the Dem party as far to the right as they possibly can...and they're the ones with all the corporations purse strings. (naturally!)

:kick::kick::kick:

[JNelson6563]

37. We in MI know him well

and he is arrogant and rather in love with himself. He would be torn to shreds the first time he showed up to do a head-to-head with a high profile Rethug. That is if he could tear himself away from hanging out at the reflecting pool whith his pal Narcissus.

<gag>

Julie--when seeing Fowler backer thinks "neophyte"

[CWebster]

41. Don't much about him but he has edge.

Where Rosenberg is pretty bland.