Gonzales as Attorney General and Graner looking at 15 years?

[fooj]

What's wrong with this picture? As much as I abhore the behavior of Graner, wasn't it Gonzales that gave the OK to torture and terrorize (a bit ironic) these prisoners? So...HE GETS PROMOTED and the other dumbass gets 15 years? What's the deal? Smells like bullshit to me!

[Tigress DEM]

1. I totally agree

Support Our Troops - because the repubs always need scapegoats, cannon fodder, a diversion from EPA investigations. Looking back I think my dad was a Liberal Hawk before the term was coined. He fought for his country in the Korean Conflict (prior to the Full on 'Nam) and he always taught me about how important Democracy and our rights and responsibilities as Americans are to keeping this thing going.

What bugs me is that we have to talk about this Underground. Although I am so grateful this site is here, I think all America should be outraged about a stolen election and INSANE appointments - of which Gonzales is only the latest in a long string.

Soldiers get busted. Democrats get busted. Martha Stewart gets busted. But the biggest criminals in this country sit up in the White House and laugh because they have made themselves above the law.

Tom Delay. Why is that man still around? Know what I mean? The shit from their illegal activities is flying so fast and furious it's hard to even keep current on it.

[fooj]

3. Welcome to DU!!! It's nice to see that some Americans actually

use critical thinking and analysis when considering issues. You know what? The "underground" aspect of our movement bugs me, too! However, because of the "pooling of resources" we were actually able to make some a statement on Jan. 6th! I firmly believe that when Rove and Co. stole yet ANOTHER election...they covered all of their bases except for the POWER of the bloggers! They didn't calculate into their dirty little equation the indomitable spirit of the American people. The irony in all of this is that we are the true patriots fighting like hell to preserve the integrity and honor of our country! It's crazy, isn't it?

[Tigress DEM]

5. I'm hoping......

that we can recover from our collective grief and regain our abilities to take up rational discourse with the "other side" and I'm not talking those who are corrupt, but those who innocently believe what Bush and the administration feed them. I'm hoping there can be some sort of "centrist" type of result out of this.

During Clinton's time we were beginning to have some real bi-partisan work being done. God, I miss Wellstone. He spoke his truth, even if it was a bit far left for me. I don't know if I'm really all that "Liberal" because I'm more of a tough-minded moderate Democrat. Not quite a Liberal Hawk either, but I think when it's warranted we may need to go out and kick some ass once in awhile and I think people on public assistance should be taught how to get off and stay off - become their own success stories - instead of getting stuck in the system.

[fooj]

7. Sounds like we have much in common...

once again...WELCOME! I consider myself a moderate democrat. Don't you hate all of these labels? I totally agree...time to go out and "kick some ass"-no kidding!!! It's getting mighty scary out there...

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. It's

not *very* underground, is it? We're posting this on a public website, and I get the impression that a lot of DU'ers are involved very visibly in local and national politics, and there are an awful lot of them, aren't there?

[w4rma]

2. Bushit rolls downhill. (nt)

[Tigress DEM]

4. Duh... Now I get it.

Not any regular form of B.S. Presidental Bushit.

[DeepModem Mom]

6. Excellent point!

[fooj]

8. So...where's the outrage?

What's wrong with everyone? It's mind-boggling!

[Tigress DEM]

11. It's simmering and about to boil over....

But I think we have to be careful that we don't hurt ourselves by blasting everyone on the "other side". If we get into US vs Them mentality, everyone loses.

We have to do the hard work of exposing the lies and getting a dialog going with "Independents" and "moderate Republicans" who distanced themselves from Bush as his insanity became apparent toward the countdown to election day. I haven't gotten there yet, but that's my goal. Not only to help heal divisiveness among the Democrats but get some cooperation from the other side. Wrong is wrong and the longer Bush is in, the harder it is for repubs to deny it.

It's tricky because if you can't trust them you have to be twice as smart and prepared in advance to handle their sneak attacks. Prepared with facts and canned responses that put the issues to light without making the person feel defensive.

For instance, it was great in the court hearing for Gonzales when they carefully asked him about ongoing torture. They got him to waffle and it's on the record now. If we can get the mainstream papers and radio and TV to cover that, it shows he is unfit. NO politico will actually say they are "FOR Torture" especially on the record.

We may have to write in editorials, call in radio shows, picket the TV stations, sit in at Government offices to make the press notice us - whatever. We have to be a plague across the nation until we are heard. It's just hard to know where to focus the energy.

This administration is filled with WAR Criminals - especially after FALLOUJA. I went in and sent an email to all Democratic Members of House and Senate asking why can't Bush be tried as a war criminal. No one got back to me, but things are popping up in mainstream media and there's more movement toward questioning by Dems. I'm sure they are as dispirited as we are and under constant fire as well, so it's a favor to them if we write and say, "DO SOMETHING!!"

[fooj]

13. Has anyone interacted with a moderate repub lately? Where are they?

I was just asking my neighbor about this the other day! I agree with your ideas and i think the "approach" angle is a good one. Have you noticed how they are into attacking first? That's what makes them so defensive!

[Vinca]

9. Why isn't that maggot Graner spilling the beans?

If he was only following orders - which I believe - why isn't he naming names? He's dumber than he appears if he doesn't.

[newblewtoo]

12. Early release ?

It has been known to happen....see this post...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2956516

worked for Calley.