Theoretical: Patriot Act II vs. DU - shutdown of DU ?

[steve2470]

Is there any legal (or illegal) way the DOJ or FBI can shut down DU in the name of anti-terrorism ? I susupect the answer is "no" but I'd like to hear from you legal beagles and law enforcement experts.

[Cooley Hurd]

1. They can do whatever they want...

They can shut us down. Skinner can sue. The trial will go in front of a Repug-appointed judge, who will rule in favor of his masters.

Welcome to America - not your father's America anymore...

[Gman]

7. They can do whatever they want

then go to court for a few years. Even if Skinner wins, DU is shut down for a long period of time which is what they wanted anyway. So, they can do whatever they want.

[Pharaoh]

2. I doubt they would be that blatant

What they would probobly do is highlight a few crazy posts out of context and destroy us using the MSM, ruin our credibility, thats how they operate these days, They don't murder people much anymore, they destroy your credibility in the minds of other americans.:dem:

[fasttense]

4. They are already doing that, and it hasn't stopped us.

[AlbizuX]

9. i agree with Pharaoh

you don't have to risk acting illegally against the First Amendment if you can just destroy credibility. They'll do what they did to Michael Moore...now in the minds of almost half of all Americans, uttering Michael Moore is tantamount to uttering communist or traitor.

That's what they will do with DU.

[Massacure]

3. The President has the power to suspend the constitution during war time.

Abe Lincoln and Franklin Roosevelt did it. Bushit could probably do it too.

[cornermouse]

5. Woodrow Wilson sent former political opponents to prison

and jailed anyone who said they opposed the war. That was on PBS just the other day.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nikepallas]

8. Logically no. However knowing how the Patriot Act II works and if

BUSHCO is allowed to continue their ways I can see that happening in June (I know I should be shot for thinking of this) Provided that the followers keep drinking the Kool-aid or even a stronger kind of Kool-aid created by perhaps another threat to America and it's "Freedom".

[Toby109]

10. Does anyone know what is in PA II?

If the neo-cons try to ram this through, exactly what will be the new definition of terrorism? I'm pretty sure Al and the boys have given some thought to stifling dissent. But they'll probably go after porn first. Just so the American sheeple get used to the idea of government intervention vis-a-vis the internet(s).

[steve2470]

14. Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004 - patriot act II

http://tinyurl.com/2vezf

link to IAA for Fiscal Year 2004, the link I originally posted did not work.


The parts of the Patriot II Act are in this law.

[steve2470]

11. WITH A WHISPER, NOT A BANG - news article re: PA II

http://www.sacurrent.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10705756&BRD=2318&PAG=461&dept_id=482778&rfi=6


Bush signs parts of Patriot Act II into law — stealthily

On December 13, when U.S. forces captured Saddam Hussein, President George W. Bush not only celebrated with his national security team, but also pulled out his pen and signed into law a bill that grants the FBI sweeping new powers. A White House spokesperson explained the curious timing of the signing - on a Saturday - as "the President signs bills seven days a week." But the last time Bush signed a bill into law on a Saturday happened more than a year ago - on a spending bill that the President needed to sign, to prevent shutting down the federal government the following Monday.

By signing the bill on the day of Hussein's capture, Bush effectively consigned a dramatic expansion of the USA Patriot Act to a mere footnote. Consequently, while most Americans watched as Hussein was probed for head lice, few were aware that the FBI had just obtained the power to probe their financial records, even if the feds don't suspect their involvement in crime or terrorism.

The Bush Administration and its Congressional allies tucked away these new executive powers in the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2004, a legislative behemoth that funds all the intelligence activities of the federal government. The Act included a simple, yet insidious, redefinition of "financial institution," which previously referred to banks, but now includes stockbrokers, car dealerships, casinos, credit card companies, insurance agencies, jewelers, airlines, the U.S. Post Office, and any other business "whose cash transactions have a high degree of usefulness in criminal, tax, or regulatory matters."


<snip>

edit: edited out an accidental text repitition

[theycanbiteme]

12. Folks...read your ISP's "Terms of Service"....

You'll be VERY surprised at what you'll find in there. This is why
I stand by my claim that the Internet CAN and WILL be shutdown when
the fascists really take over.

[steve2470]

15. Bright House Networks Central Florida Terms and Conditions of Use

http://cfl.mybrighthouse.com/useragreement.asp

<snip>

You agree not to use any obscene, indecent, or offensive language or to place on the Service any material that is defamatory, abusive, harassing, or hateful. Further, you may not place on the Service any material that is encrypted, constitutes junk mail or unauthorized advertising, invades anyone's privacy, or encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, give rise to civil liability, or that otherwise violates any local, state, national or international law or regulation. You agree to use the Service only for lawful purposes and you acknowledge that your failure to do so may subject you to civil and criminal liability.

<snip>

a little vague, huh ?

[CatholicEdHead]

22. Where is DU hosted

Is is domestically? Is the server physically overseas? If the server is overseas, then it would be much messier to shutdown the servers as they are in another country.

[H2O Man]

13. Why would

they want to? Shut down DU?

[RetroLounge]

16. They would be creating 60,000 *real* insurgents

right here, and they don't have the troops to deal with us.

Are they dumb enough to try? of course...

RL

[pocket]

17. They could kill us all if they so desired

if they can MIHOP once, they can do it again.

[JohnLocke]

18. Not a chance (nt)

[American Tragedy]

19. They wouldn't dare do it - at least not that blatantly

They would be evoking the wrath of over 60,000 bitter liberal activists, who would in turn draw many thousands more to the cause. It would be far more trouble for them.

Speaking for myself, I would make Martha Mitchell look discreet if they pulled something like that. I'd never shut up. They'd have to kill me.

[InvisibleBallots]

20. why would they want to shut down DU?

DU is where fans of "Democrats" like Rosenberg tell us how the war was a good idea. I'm sorry, I don't see how DU is a threat to anyone? :shrug:

[Deja Q]

21. As long as the mods go after disruptors and threads which constitute a

legitimate threat, there should be no problem at all.

And, to date, they've done an awesome job. Reputable, in fact.

[H2O Man]

23. DU is a discussion forum.

It is a very good place to discuss a variety of issues. However, discussions of the type that occure on DU pose no threat at all to the administration or republican strong-hold on the county. It might actually be more the opposite: DU may be seen by the administration as social novacaine that keeps people who might otherwise resist having their teeth (and more) yanked out of them, more likely to sit and suffer peacefully in a chat room. I do not think that DU has impacted any election or legal case, which would be the types of things that might cause a republican alarm to go off. I am kind of surprised that after the hatchet job by the NY Times and Fox News, that DUers haven't even undertaken a letter-writing campaign. As long as it remains a discussion forum, it's safe for both democrats and republicans.