I like the way Dean handled the issue of choice on MTP today.

[madfloridian]

He did not waffle on his pro-choice stance at all, yet he worded it in a very good way.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/ID/6702005/

DR. DEAN: We can change our vocabulary, but I don't think we ought to change our principles. The way I think about this is--and it gets into the gay marriage stuff, too. We're not the party of gay marriage. We're the party of equal rights for all Americans. You know, I signed the first civil unions bill in America, and four years later the most conservative president the United States has seen in my lifetime is now embracing what I signed. We've come a long way. We're not the party of abortion. We're the party of allowing people to make up their own minds about medical treatment. It's just a different way of phrasing it. We have to start framing these issues, not letting them frame the issues.

I have long believed that we ought to make a home for pro-life Democrats. The Democrats that have stuck with us, who are pro-life, through their long period of conviction, are people who are the kind of pro-life people that we ought to have deep respect for. Not only are they pro-life, which, I think, is a moral judgment--I happen to be strongly pro-choice, as a physician--but they are pro-life more moral reasons. They also, if they're in the Democratic Party, are real pro-life. That is, they're pro-life not just for unborn children. They're pro-life for investing in children's programs. They're pro-life for helping small children and young families. They're pro-life in making sure adequate medical care happens to children. That's what you so often lack on the Republican side. They beat the drums about being pro-life but they forget about life after birth. And so I do embrace pro-life Democrats. I think we want them in our party. We can have a respectful dialogue, and we have to stop demagoguing this issue."

[Mojambo]

1. Sounds like an effective DNC chair to me. n/t

[Placebo]

2. Great words; horrible choice for DNC chair.

[madfloridian]

3. I think Gep should be DNC chair...why isn't he running?

Dean should lead DFA.

[madfloridian]

4. And when you do this, it does not affect me.

It affects the tone of the forum.

[Padraig18]

6. And why is that?

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

7. Because it contains the word Dean....and some jump on.

It is really quite bad for the board, makes it look silly. Same old same old.

[Padraig18]

9. Yep. Same song, verse 392...

Oh, well...

:shrug:

[Tinoire]

5. Dean. I am serious here

Dean for DNC chair. Those other ass-holes need to go.

Give me a man who says what he means and means what he says over those flip-flopping, lying asses.

To think that Dean, the moderate centrist, caused so much fear in the heart of the DNC only shows how corrupt they are.

Go Dean!!!!

On edit... It's more like "Go Dean Machine"!!! Because the words behind Dean aren't necessarily his, Deans greatest strength is that he represents the people behind him and stand up for their ideas... A novel concept of representative government. The Democratic Party should try it. Could do us a lot of good lol.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

8. Dean hit the nail on the head

We need to tell things like they are, and to define ourselves and our positions rather than passively allowing the Rethugs to define us. His statements on Life were right on the mark.

He'll make a great DNC chair.

[SemperEadem]

10. talk about slingshotting a rock between the eyes of the

Goliathan RW rethugs!

" That is, they're pro-life not just for unborn children. They're pro-life for investing in children's programs. They're pro-life for helping small children and young families. They're pro-life in making sure adequate medical care happens to children. That's what you so often lack on the Republican side. They beat the drums about being pro-life but they forget about life after birth. And so I do embrace pro-life Democrats. I think we want them in our party. We can have a respectful dialogue, and we have to stop demagoguing this issue."

No rethug who claims that they are pro-life should be allowed to squirm out of this fundamental fact of the premise of their belief.

[ThorsHammer]

27. Hey, there are some of us

I know there are a lot of the hypocrites who could care less about the baby after birth, but there are also many of us moderate/liberal ones too. While we're pro-life in the abortion sense, we're much closer to the Democratic side w/r/t being pro-life on healthare, education, a safety net, living wages, etc. The hypocrites tend to get the press, but there are many of us who are pro-life both pre and post birth.

[housewolf]

30. We should stop using the term "pro-life"

We should call them what they are - Their positions are anti-choice and anti-abortion rights.

And we should call us what we are - pro-choice. We are not pro-abortion (well, most of us anyway). We are pro-abortion RIGHTS, but not necessarily pro-abortion.

This language has been co-opted by the conservatives to their benefit and it's used to demonize us. We need to take it back.

[Us vs Them]

11. I agree with Dean.

We need to look at opting against abortion as the honourable way to handle a situation. I applaud those who are pro-life, and support bringing a well loved child into this world. However, as a Democrat, I stand behind the right for an individual to make medical choices regarding their own body.

Nicely handled.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. He was right on!!!! n/t

[MissMarple]

13. "...they forget about life after birth." How true.

And being pro life also means understanding that just making a law doesn't guarantee the desired result. Often it can exacerbate the problem while driving it underground and out of the view of "polite" society. Abortions have gone up since George has been in office, they declined during the 90's. It is often a question of economics as well as a basic health issue. Strident clinging to ideology doesn't serve us well. We all must find common ground on this.

[madfloridian]

17. I have never heard it phrased that way; it was a great way to say it.

:hi:

[grumpy old fart]

14. So many people vote on the "pro life" issue...

we need to embrace them, and widen the pro life dialog. We need to champion the fact that life goes beyond conception. War is not pro life. Universal health care is pro life. We are on the right side of this issue. Repugs have killed untold scores of thousands of post birth lives. We OWN this issue.

[chaumont58]

15. I liked the performance, period.

I've been a Governor Dean supporter for some time, but I don't think a blind supporter. I thought he did well today. He looks to me like a man comfortable in his skin.
I think he will do good for the Democratic Party and for the nation as a whole regardless of what office he holds. He has a good mind, and a good heart. The other side has few with good minds, and none with a good heart.

[madfloridian]

16. Good post.

I think you are right that he is one of those who is comfortable with himself and his thoughts. I always think of an article Anna Quindlen wrote in Newsweek about him, that he might be one of the rare men who cared more about changing things than about themselves.

He started out to make change, and he is succeeding. See my sig line? That is from his new book, and it is why he is able to be that catalyst the party needs.

[Lugnut]

18. I agree with you.

I thought he was great on MTP this morning. I didn't know he'd be on and was pleasantly surpried.

Although he didn't specifically say that he wanted the job of running the party if he really does he has my full support. He expresses views that closely mirror my own and I find myself in agreement with him on every level.

[sonicx]

19. this is not a slam on dean, but i have a question...

does he have issues with anxiety? alot of times when i see him do interviews, he seems a little jittery (i realize being on TV would make a person nervious, but it seems more noticeable with Dean)...

I still like him, tho.

[madfloridian]

20. LOL we all have our little issues.

I am always listening to his thoughts and words, and whatever. I would advise you not watch if it bothers you so. LOL

[sonicx]

21. it doesn't really bother me. i've always just wondered.

[madfloridian]

22. Well, all our candidates had quirks.

I have a list, but I don't use them here. It is not kind.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Dean would be a good choice, BUT Byron Dorgan would be as well

Dorgan is very progressive, not a DLC member, voted NAY on the IWR, and apparently knows something about winning in red states since he got re-elected in North Dakota with about 68% of the vote. Both Dean or Dorgan would be very good.

[DFLforever]

25. You want to give up a Senate seat so Dorgan can be DNC chief?

I think that would be a big mistake.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. He doesn't have to actually...

I asked this question this morning, Dorgan can be DNC Chair and a Senator at the same time.

[ThorsHammer]

24. Very nice, that's the pro-life that I believe in (nt)

[TheDonkey]

26. One of the best ways to explain Pro-Choice I've ever seen

very good, he's trying to test the waters for DNC chair. I hope he gets it personally and I'm not even a Deaniac.

[housewolf]

28. We have caved into the conservatives with this language....

We should never (in the past, present or future) use the term "pro-life" to describe anti-abortionists. They are not pre-life. They are anti-abortion rights. This is one of those distortions that conservatives have so successfully re-framed. We need to take this back. They have no compunction in referring to our position as pro-abortion. I have heard even democrats use this term and it is an absolute distortion. Dean distorted our message when he used that language. We are pro-choice, pro-abortion RIGHTS but NOT pre-abortion (at least most of us - there may be a few people out there who actively promote abortions but there are not very many of them). We just can't let them continue to own this issue throught their languaging.