Straight up poll. Is Clark telling the truth about VP offer from Dean?

[wndycty]

This is a yes or no question. Do you believe General Clark when he said that Dean offered him the VP slot?

[poskonig]

1. Yes.

Clark says it was "dangled," and that sounds plausible.

[Closer]

36. :-)

[wndycty]

49. Cute. . .

Your maturity is really impressive.

[Closer]

51. And please know that I'm out to impress YOU.

[wndycty]

52. I doubt it. . .

. . .:shrug:

[meow mix]

69. gah

must admit thats pretty funny. ROFL!

[Fahrenheit911]

74. don't even try to go there

[wndycty]

2. I just want the Dean campaign to either. . .

. . .fess up or call him a liar.

[poskonig]

4. Maybe they can destroy each other in the process.

WooHoo! </SARCASM>

[wndycty]

11. You call it destruction, I call it honesty. . .

Either he was offered the spot or he was not. I think we the voters deserve to know the truth and if someone is lying we deserve to know who is.

[poskonig]

28. But how would you tell it was the truth

unless you already knew it? You'd have to take either Howie's or Wes's word for it.

[wndycty]

35. And I am taking Wes's word for it. . .

:kick:

[Padraig18]

5. 'Call him a liar'????

They're already being accused of 'attacking' JK and DG in Iowa for passing out flyers pointing out that they both voted for the IWR; why would they call him a 'liar', given that sort of climate, even if it were true? :wtf:

[Scott Lee]

To Clark and Kerry, the truths about them are equivalent to lies

because they both equate negative blowback on them.

Darn you Howard Dean, Darn you all to HELL for telling the truth about your opponents.

[wndycty]

30. You mean like Dean. . .

. . .who calls for civility then distributes fliers that attack Kerry?

[Padraig18]

33. They don't 'attack' Sen. Kerry, unless...

... you consider the statement that he voted for the IWR to be an 'attack', in which case they do attack Sen. Kerry... :shrug:

[madaboutharry]

3. Yes

What would be the reason for Clark inventing something like this? I don't believe Joe Trippi's denial.

[Demobrat]

8. What would be the reason?

Too boost his credibility, what else?

[Demobrat]

6. No.

If that were true it would have come out when Clark entered the race, not now when his campaign has performed below expectations.

[wyldwolf]

9. It did come out when Clark entered the race...

Today is the second (or third) time the story has bubbled to the surface.

So I guess with your reasoning gone, you'll change your vote to a "yes?"

[FrenchieCat]

7. The Dean Campaign should be ashamed of themselves.....

This is definitely as bad as Dean whining and saying Dems candidates should stop attacking him. Dean who said enough times to hurt Clark's campaign...."he was a Republican until 25 days ago"....Dean who keeps talking about Wes stance on the Iraq War and not really being against it....while he Dean all along had the same stance...or Dean sending his attack dog Rob Reiner to attack Clark on his Desecrasion stance....when Dean had his own issues with HIS flag stance!

This must be a national security issue...after all Dean said it was ok to lie about that!

I guess we can forget about restoring honor to the White House in the Dean Campaign!

Here is the New York Times take on Dean & Clark and the VP issue:
http://query.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F20815FA385F0C728DDDA00894DB404482
Archived article:
September 11, 2003, Thursday
NATIONAL DESK

Dean Asks General to Join Him in Primaries, Aides Say

By JODI WILGOREN (NYT) BURLINGTON, Vt., Sept. 10 --
After months of friendly discussions about national security and other issues, Howard Dean, the former governor of Vermont, asked Gen. Wesley K. Clark to join his presidential campaign in some capacity if General Clark decided against making the run himself, aides for both men said tonight.

''The governor's told him repeatedly that he should run if he wants,'' Joe Trippi, Dr. Dean's campaign manager, said at the campaign headquarters here. ''I'm sure that along the way the governor's made clear that we want General Clark's support if he decides not to run for president. I assume every other candidate has done the same thing.''

The meeting on Saturday in Los Angeles was first reported tonight by The Washington Post. Mr. Trippi and an aide to General Clark said that they were unsure whether the two men had discussed the vice presidency as The Post reported but that Dr. Dean had not tried to persuade General Clark not to join the fray.

Dr. Dean is often asked whether he would put General Clark on a short list of running mates if he received the nomination. He always says, and Mr. Trippi repeated tonight, that it is far too early to engage in such conversations.

General Clark, who was the supreme allied commander of NATO and has retired from the Army, is expected to announce next week whether he will seek the Democratic presidential nomination. Dr. Dean, whose summer surge has made him a focal point of the nine-person primary field, has often spoken fondly of General Clark, in public and among his friends and supporters. The two men are both darlings of the Internet, which spawned a Draft Clark movement and has been fertile ground for Dr. Dean's fund-raising success.

Asked whether the meeting would have an effect on General Clark's decision about entering the race himself, his senior aide, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said: ''No, no, no, no, no.''

''General Clark has had an ongoing dialogue with a number of the presidential candidates,'' the aide said. ''He's been talking to them all about national security issues.''

General Clark was in Los Angeles on Saturday as a guest on the HBO program ''Real Time With Bill Maher,'' and Dr. Dean was there for a fund-raising retreat. They had a wide-ranging discussion about the presidential race and their prospects, people who were there said.

Many political observers have said they believe General Clark will jump into the race, in part because he has scheduled a date, Sept. 19, to announce a decision.

Mr. Trippi played down the significance of Saturday's session.

''They've been meeting for months,'' he said. ''They've had these conversations over the phone. Every time they're in the same city, they meet.''

[Padraig18]

12. Umm...

How is that article repsonsive to anything that has been posted? Just curious...

[FrenchieCat]

17. Joe trippi

wasn't at the meeting....Clark was.
That's how.

One day I hope someone will explain how Dean can just say anything, and now apparently Trippi too....and even if they are lies, his supporters don't care.

[Padraig18]

23. You don't *know* that they're 'lies'.

Unless *you* were there, too, you have no way of knowing, do you? :shrug:

[elfin]

10. he said it was "dangled"

Doubt if Dean asked him directly - but hinted at it so strongly that that was the only inference possible.

[robbedvoter]

13. Voted, but resent the idea of his honesty being questioned even.

Trippi must apologize. Or else.

[Padraig18]

18. If Trippi's telling the truth, why should he apologize?

:shrug:

[Scott Lee]

19. "Or else" what? You gonna throw Trippi a beatin'?

[poskonig]

*Clark* said Trippi did not know

because Trippi wasn't at any of the "meetings." Why should Trippi apologize if he was being honest?

Spare me the "or else" stuff. You sound corny.

[Scott Lee]

14. I'm sure Clark can nuance himself out of this blunder.

If not, he can call the Kerry campaign for tips. They have a running history of it.

[Scott Lee]

15. HA! Don't DARE question Clarks honesty....but now Dean....

You walked into that one with no boots on. I'm really surprised!

[wndycty]

20. You know its sad when people reply to themselves. . .

:kick:

[Bucky]

72. I agree

[Bucky]

73. So do I

[Scott Lee]

75. Even sadder when you lack the intellect to see it was an added comment

Not a reply.

*snort*

[robbedvoter]

22. Clark and dean on truth telling:

http://Blog.forclark.com/story/2003/12/15/101641/24

[wndycty]

16. It does not seem like a blunder on Clark's part. . .

. . .I think Joe Trippi is the one who blundered on this one.

[Scott Lee]

21. It sure is if Clark can't differentiate between "dangled" and "asked"

Another blunder by the Clark team. Don't they know that every word coming out of his mouth these days will be scrutinized with a microscope from the other camps?

[wndycty]

24. So what would you say when Dean admits it was true. . .

:kick:

[Scott Lee]

27. You have some inside knowledge that not even Clark has?

Amazing, the psychic power of some of these supporters. Kreskin, move over!

[FrenchieCat]

26. Sounds

like blunder is "YOUR" word of the day.

Could it just be you?

[robbedvoter]

29. I am not rich - can't donate like you - but for every "blunder" - another

letter goes to another outlet about this.

[BootinUp]

31. Whats the difference then? n/t

[JVS]

38. Here let me demonstrate.

Dangle: Maybe if you come over to my house after dinner there will be an extra piece of pie for you.

Ask: Please come to my house after dinner and I'll give you a piece of pie.


See the difference?

[BootinUp]

42. So what your saying is

Dean was just playing with the General? He didn't mean it.

yep

[JVS]

44. Well neither of us knows what really happened, if anything.

I doubt that Dean would offer him VP on a platter, though. That would not be shrewd at all.

[poskonig]

45. I'm sure Dean talked about this with other people too.

Bob Graham, for example, comes to mind.

Are you Clarkies out of ammo or something? Terrorists are on the move on Iraq, and you choose to make your campaign about this?

No wonder you're getting clobbered.

[BootinUp]

46. Clearing the air

would be nice. Thats what this was about. And Clark is not out of this race by a long shot.

[poskonig]

48. The Clark campaign just wants to campaign on fluff.

I hope the Dean campaign refuses the bait and sticks to substance, since that is what works.

[wndycty]

50. Fluff. . .you call this fluff?

Remember you have the power. . .LOL

http://clark04.com/issues/

[poskonig]

54. Talking about healthcare resonates more than

talking about a bruised ego.

Tell the Clark campaign to try it! :thumbsup:

[Scott Lee]

59. Clark = fluff. Yes.

Sad too, because Clark is my second choice. Some of his supporters are making this look worse by the day.

[JVS]

60. How can you call him fluff?

Have you not seen how nice he looks in his uniform? The man is destined to lead.

[poskonig]

64. "Have you not seen how nice he looks in his uniform?"

:yourock:

[Scott Lee]

76. Hey, even Napolean made a breastplate look good.

[BootinUp]

53. I'm not a politico operative or anything but

it seems to me that it does not help Clark for rumors to circulate that he would consider or accept a VP slot. So any rumors on the subject should be dealt with in a straight and honest fashion IMHO.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

55. Mmmm...Fluff...Substance

Fluff...you mean like the snow on the ski slopes of Aspen?

Substance...perhaps by that you mean something like testifying at the Hague?

Lets see...Fluff/Aspen/Dean...darned if that doesn't seem to fit...what do ya' think, mmmmmmm?

:shrug:

[Auntie Bush]

62. I see the difference but...

In either case wouldn't he think he was offered some pie?

[ibegurpard]

25. Who cares?

I'm not interested in some little spats over egotism.

[robbedvoter]

34. You took comfort in completing your 1/2 candidate with a lie

which was peddled to others for endorsements as well. Truth matters to us at least. And if anything, all them VP dreams should just about stop. Tome to chose: a candidate or a 1/2?

[Toucano]

32. From Clark site: Press Release

Press Room

For Immediate Release
Date: December 21, 2003

Clark Campaign Responds To Joe Trippi
Little Rock - Clark Campaign Communications Director Matt Bennett issued the following statement in response to Joe Trippi's comments to ABC News:

"Joe Trippi may want to check in with his candidate before talking. Howard Dean did in fact offer Wes Clark a place on the ticket in a one-on-one meeting that Trippi did not attend. Joe Trippi shouldn't comment on meetings he wasn't invited to."

http://www.clark04.com/press/release/136/

[robbedvoter]

39. Thanks! "I DUNNO" was the correct answer. Or the truth.

This was not called for.

[Toucano]

47. What was not called for?

I don't understand.

[TrueAmerican]

40. Wow. That lays it out.

Thanks for the link.

[TrueAmerican]

37. Wouldn't suprise me if Dean dangled the VP position to others

I hope they don't get too upset IF Dean wins the nomination and picks someone else.

[Kahuna]

63. He has. Bob Graham for one. Probably offered ...

Gov. Jim McGreevey of NJ a position. McGreevey is skating on very thin ice in NJ. He may be looking out for his future.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

41. Amazing

Doesn't really matter whether Dean did or didn't...as Dean won't be naming anyone for VP after Wes is nominated.

[wndycty]

43. LOL

:kick:

[maddezmom]

56. kick

:kick:

[Texas_Dem]

57. oh yes

Its true all right. But will Dean admit to it? Stay tuned.

[wndycty]

58. Well it appears. . .

. . .that an overwhelming number of DU'ers think Clark is telling the truth!!!!

[wiley]

61. Lieberman Says Dean would say...

Okay, now the media is getting all dizzy about Joe and his purported resurgence. I told you people not to play with the Gore thing, but no...Now Al Gore III, son of the man who endorsed Howard Brush Dean III gets busted for half a joint and shakes and they mention that just recently Gore endorsed Dean.

In any case. Wesley K. Clark is incapable of lying. Read his statement on it.

Hadn't we all be getting people to register so that they can actually vote in the primaries?

My union is having a hard time getting people to do anything at this point after the last week of Dean. Not that I was helping in that effort anyway.

[mikehiggins]

65. Yes, but it's really not a big deal

It could all have been a misunderstanding, or something like that. If Clark didn't beleive he had been offered the spot he wouldn't have said it. Its possible for two men to have a discussion in which there is communication but no real understanding.

Take a lot of DU threads for example.

Dean may not have meant to give Clark that impression or even brought up the subject as a hypothetical in such a way as to let Clark think more of the idea than Dean intended.

Both men should walk away from this one and get on with beating up on Tom Delay like Clark did today.

[mzmolly]

66. No, but I didn't vote. Dean discussed possibilities.

Clark is said to have integrity issues, and this may be another example.

[robbedvoter]

67. Yeah, by war criminals , Republicans and those with an agenda

You're in good company!

[mzmolly]

68. And co-workers superiors like Hugh Shelton....

I don't recall if HS is a Republican war criminal? But I do know that Rove/Clark claim Dean can't win.

So who's in who's company? :shrug:

[andym]

70. Actually all the other candidates declined to support the idea that Dean

Actually all the other candidates declined to support the idea that Dean
could win at the last debate. Only Dean raised his hand to the question of whether anyone thought Dean could win the GE.

[mzmolly]

79. Did they ask that of any other candidate? Why plant that question about

Dean and Dean alone? It's a joke... If anyone can win, Dean can.

[Rowdyboy]

82. I'd be interested in Hugh Shelton's thoughts

If he had the guts to make them public. When do you think he might? Instead, he makes baseless charges and then hides, refusing to clarify or explain. I call that character assassination. Really, an impressive character for you to cite in opposition to General Clark.

[mjv135]

81. Clark?

Clark has integrity issues?
And Mr. "I'll take on anyone who opts out of matching funds" Dean is a frickin' bastion of honesty?

Dr. Dean's word of the day - "Rationalization"

[in_cog_ni_to]

71. Yes he is.

I remember an interview Dean did with Wolf Blitzer BEFORE Clark entered the race and Wolf asked Dean if he would like like Clark to be his VP? Dean couldn't say yes FAST enough. That was right after the rumor of the meeting Dean and Clark had earlier that week. Clark is telling the truth.

[robbedvoter]

77. Curious: the 13 who voted "No" are the same 13 who voted DLC

as bigger threat that bushco in Will Pitt's poll?

[bhunt70]

80. Dean probably thought it was a matter of national security.

...

[arewethereyet]

78. there is obviously more to this than meets the eye

and I'll say right now that I don't think either of them are being completely truthful. And its not just some hair splitting "dangle" vs "offer" semantics at play.

If I had to guess I would say that there was some form of proposal made based on some conditions and that were the circumstances not fullfilled that this would all go forgotten and not to be spoken of again.

That explains Dr Dean's silence (trying to retain the high road till such time as it's appropriate and because Trippi has removed his tongue temporarily) and General Clark's use of a breach of confidence to try and reverse his faltering and cash poor campaign.

But thats just a guess. We may never know.

[mjv135]

83. $$$

Cash poor?

hehehe

You been to the Clark blog lately?

[arewethereyet]

85. no, saw his FEC numbers though

I find this more credible.

[Julia Grey]

84. The Clark Campaign is not "cash poor"

They're on track to take in 10 million or more this quarter, and then pick up 3+ million in public financing in January. Gephardt, Lieberman, Kerry, now, THOSE guys are (and will remain) "cash poor."

>>> That explains Dr Dean's silence (trying to retain the high road till such time as it's appropriate <<<

The only thing that explains Dean's silence on this is that they haven't been able to figure out how to have him respond. To me that means he DID dangle the VP slot in front of Clark, but he's trying to calculate whether the public will believe he didn't before he either admits it (bad) or denies it again (potentially worse).

How will this play to anybody who's been following the primary campaign who is not already a Deaniac?

[Upfront]

86. Hmmm

Who cares?

[FrenchieCat]

87. All those voters

that were tempted to vote for Dean because they thought that Clark would be on the ticket......

that's who cares...

that's why Dean's campaign has been rumoring that VP fairy tale around!

Well at least it's making front line news.....so voters will hear about this.....
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/21/elec04.prez.democrats/index.html

[WiseMen]

88. Someone is LYING. Or Does Logic No Longer Apply

[LuminousX]

89. A matter of perception

Clark feels he was asked. Dean says he didn't ask. Most likely, when Dean was consulting with Clark (one should recall only two candidates conferred with Jimmy Carter - Clark and Dean, Jimmy may have suggested to Dean to speak with Clark) he brought up the idea, in much the same way he brought up the idea of Graham. He didn't ask Graham, he only said he would considere Graham.

Dean probably asked Clark if it was okay to consider him as VP. Clark, not in the race yet but certain he would be, probably said that wouldn't work for him.

No, I was not present for the conversation. This is pure speculation, comparable to low grade crap. But it is a valid explaination for the two versions of the story without either being a liar.

[bobthedrummer]

90. He should explore that offer

for all the right reasons.