Did anyone see Michael Moore last nite on Leno ?

[ecoalex]

A very reserved more obese MM came out, looking way out of his self, clean shaven, wearing a penguin -like black suit. It was sad for me to see his passion gone, he seemed like a beaten man to me. He made a few indirect jabs, and said in 4 years...... But what will be left after 4 years? What will have changed in 4 years regarding a secure free to all election? With Jimmy Carter saying "until the party in power wishes to change the way elections are held, nothing will change" . This is encourageing , if you're a republican, and chrushing if you wanted change. MM we need you, we ask you to please lose some weight, otherwise in 4 more years , you'll not be able to do that voo doo you do so well.

[T Roosevelt]

1. I caught the end of it

was quite surprised at his appearance - clean shaven and a suit. So not like him. Did he say why?

[genius]

46. He said Bush got more votes. He's seems to have given up

He was talking about 08. Does he have no idea about the rigging or did he just quit on us?

[formernaderite]

60. No, he's brilliant and he's chosen not to drink the kool-aid...

..no doubt there were some voting irregularities...probably on both sides, as in every election.
We need to focus on the fact Bush received more votes...sick as that is, it's also true.
How do we change that dynamic? As Moore pointed out...Bush didn't win by a huge margin...but he did win. 2008 gives us a chance to take back the country. But we'll end up on the Jim Jones ranch politically if we don't say NO to the kool aid.
Focus people.

[trumad]

2. Yeah and I wish you looked like Brad fucking Pitt.

:eyes:

[blueknight]

3. actually he said

if you cant beat them you might as well look like them. lol

[peacetalksforall]

7. You're right - the dress matched the (kinda quiet) jokes about being

one of them because of the money he's made.

I think a joke is on...we'll have to wait and see.

[CatWoman]

8. God, I love you!!!!!!!

:D

[peacetalksforall]

4. Don't know if he is in the know about actions to coma & is playing a game

or if he feels defeat. There was no fire. I hope there is something up his sleeve. We need his $reserve for a documetary about the 'swing' states.

[HeeBGBz]

5. That was my first thought, too.

When I rewatched it, I caught the more subtle subtleties.

Repugs really don't like MM. By pointing out that he would be receiving the tax breaks, he made all these peeps who can't stand him realize they funded him by voting for Bush. Also, made the point about healthcare.

He said that Bush got more votes. Not that he won them fairly. He also kept stressing about the Republican's "story" being better. The Democrats can't come up with a good "story". The emphasis on "story" in the context that stories are usually made-up.

He's got a game on, but I don't know what it is.

[Glenda]

16. Bush got more votes..

I noticed he said this. And I also noticed as you did that he didn't say more people voted for him.

It was very interesting...

[genius]

47. He talked about Bush having a better story

As if his win were legit. What's going on with Michael?

[KoKo]

6. Moore bucked huge pressure to get F/911 out even offering it for free

just before the election. We should have some idea what he was up against from what we've seen in the last four years ourselves.

But, it's up to us and not Mike to make the changes. He's a hero to many of us, but one night on Jay Leno's show doesn't make Mike a beaten down or turned into a "repug" (as some said on threads about him last night.)

Moore will always be out there fighting. I imagine he was doing a little bit of "theater" with the suit and the subdued behavior. After all how many of us are really cheerful these days and wouldn't want to stick something in the face of these talk show, entertainment types.

Moore was probably doing what he does best and that's "throwing them off their game." People would have expected Moore to behave like his usual brash self, but that he didn't says more about his character than if he'd spent the show letting Leno and the audience attack him about Bush.

So, if he seemed to say Bush got all the votes. Well, the media said Bush got all the votes. What's he supposed to do? Go into a long rant about BBVoting and recount efforts? On Jay Leno???? Give me a break, he has too much good sense and class to do that.

He behaved exactly like he "WASN'T" supposed to.

Moore is out there fighting against this regime. I hate to see him called a "sell out," here. He was using the media like a good showman knows how to do.

[peekaloo]

9. champagne, breath mint, bull shit

I thought this lil' story of his was a subtle reminder.

[Cheswick2.0]

10. who are you Ralph Nader?

What is with the comments on his weight? I don't think he was heavier than before and I don't really care anyway. That is his business and he is fine the way he is.

The outfit was a joke to make a point.

[Bombtrack]

11. "fine the way he is"

I think there's a sane middle ground on Mike's weight that neither of you are quite hitting.

[Cheswick2.0]

42. I think his weight is his business and that is what you are missing

Like I said, his weight is fine the way it is....because it is no one else's business.

[greenohio]

12. I'm not sure Michael Moore ever helped us.

I don't think his movie got us very many votes and it enraged the repukes. He is a polarizing figure.

[LiveInHope]

13. I think he did help

He brought a lot of unknown ideas to the attention of the general population and got them to think. People who just watch tv for their news weren't aware of all the stuff going on. I live in a republican county and people APPLAUDED at the end of F9/11.

[greenohio]

17. Welcome to DU.

I do believe he "helped" with spreading ideas and what not. I think his net effect was a loss in votes because he motivated the repukes. Visiting their convention did us no good whatsoever other than make them mad.

[ArkDem]

28. He was preaching to the choir. I doubt that anyone other

than us hard core dems went to see it.

[CatWoman]

40. I remember reading many stories about republicans

who went to see that movie.

I also recall republicans deciding to switch their vote as a result of that movie.

Republicans -- not neocons.

[Bridget Burke]

14. Please let us not make the Republicans mad.

If we're very, very polite, perhaps they will be polite in turn.

But if things get "polarized" we're well on the way to being "marginalized" as "fringe hard-left liberals." Even if Moore's last movie was 90% documentary & 10% opinion. Best to suppress the truth.

[greenohio]

18. Theres taking a tough stand and then there's

just stupid politicking. Tell me, how did Moore visiting the repuke convention help us? How many votes did we get?

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. He knows what a lightning rod he is to the repukes.

He showed up there, I think, in the clear hope that they would over-react and show themselves to be the intolerant (choose your noun) they are, on national TV. Something on the lines of the scum that kicked the protester on the convention floor.

Good for him.

[greenohio]

26. Great plan. It worked well.

Not.

[NYCGirl]

32. No, he showed up there because he was hired by USA Today to write

a series of columns about the RNC. That's why he was there.

BTW, the articles were wonderful.

[CatWoman]

41. Just like Anne Coulter was hired to write a series of columns

about the DNC.

I really, really wish people would know what they are talking about before they so eagerly trash people.

[CatWoman]

15. that comment is so fucked up for so many reasons

I don't think his movie got us very many votes and it enraged the repukes

[greenohio]

21. And this comment is wise and insightful.

[CatWoman]

23. thank you. I agree.

yes. Yes, it is.

[Bush was AWOL]

22. Not true

I know plenty of people that couldn't vote for Bush bc of F 911.

[KansDem]

25. Case in point....

Several years ago my wife and I went on a trip to Colorado. While in Denver, we stayed overnight with a friend of my wife from high school. When we left the next morning, I exchanged email addresses with him; strictly a obligatory gesture as I never really expected to correspond. And that was the way it was for a couple of years--until shortly after MM's movie came out. Suddenly one day I bring up my email account and find a message from him, addressed to several people including his family and friends, informing us that he had seen "F9/11" and urged us to work against Bush's reelection. What made this proclamation additionally profound was that he was raised in a strongly conservative Republican family...

I don't know what his politics were before "9/11" as my wife thought he was a Republican ever since high school, but I certainly knew how he felt about Bush AFTER seeing the movie...

[Eloriel]

27. the opposite of "a polarizing figure"

especially in this climate, would make one complicit with the extremist in the rightwing. Take your "polarizing figure" charges elsewhere.

[greenohio]

30. I believe there is middle ground.

Moore should have stayed home rather than attend the repuke convention. I know for many on this board, he can do no wrong.

[Cheswick2.0]

43. he did no harm at all

some people are just so affraid of how we are viewed. It's the appeasement factor. Congratulations you have bought into it.

No wonder we lose all the time.

[greenohio]

44. Still trying to get my attention I see.

I'd say Moore didn't do any appeasing, but he made lots of money and we still lost. So how does that support your point?

[sonicx]

35. Moore alone did not enrage repukes

he's not that powerful. Terrorism/'Morals' were the main factors. Kerry would have lost anyway.

[robbedvoter]

38. Unlike say, Joe Lieberman or the Vichy Democrats.

[Generator]

58. The Vichy Democrats!

We have a winner. This is what they are all fast becoming. Wake up, or France will have to rescue us. (Am I the only one that imagined that scenario-of France rescuing US from fascism? Man..we would never live it down...hey maybe we could become bilingual like Canada..maybe we could drink wine and read more..NAH)

[Gloria]

50. He mentioned the number of cities he campaigned in and how

Kerry won in all of them except for two....

[LittleClarkie]

51. He moved a good friend of mine from over a notch

Over the course of 4 years my friend has moved from feeling we need to support the prez and being disappointed in MM at the Oscars because he'd always liked "The Awful Truth" to hating Bush and going to see F 9/11, which only moved him farther away.

He did not know many of the things in the movie, about the Bin Laden's and such.

Remember that millions went out to see this, and I even heard some Repubs say it was very damaging if true. They just didn't know if they believed it.

I have yet to see it. I think my head would explode.

[primavera]

54. Maybe, but....

... I'd hate to have to admit to myself that I've grown so cynical that I no longer consider our country capable of tolerating people who tell the truth. That's going to be a dark day, and we're on our way to it, but, mercifully, I haven't quite reached it yet.

[greenohio]

56. I didn't say we couldn't "tolerate people who tell the truth."

All I'm saying is that I doubt Michael Moore's net effect is negligible, if not negative.

[primavera]

57. I understand what you meant

I wasn't trying to jump down your thraot, it's just something I've been thinking about alot these days as I'm working as a policy analyst for a thinktank, the effectiveness of which genuinely depends upon it not being perceived as "too left" or "too right." As a consequence, I encounter on a daily basis issues where I'm not allowed to tell the truth, or at least not the whole truth, as telling the full truth would compronise the institute's political position and its ability to influence policymakers on both sides of the aisle.

Rationally, I understand that's just political reality. At the same time, it sticks in my craw having to pretend that rabid, foaming at the mouth, right-wing assholes are anything less than rabid, foaming at the mouth, right-wing assholes. A part of me just rebels at not being able to call a duck a duck, you know? I think that's why I like Michael Moore so much - and resect him - regardless of what his political impact might be: I just have to admire someone who finally stands up and says "No, goddamn it, it's not a matter of perception or political point of view, a duck is not, never has been, and never will be a lion, it's a fucking DUCK, period, end of story."

[Must_B_Free]

61. He was a nigative polarizing figure

he gave tangentially aware people a reason to dislike "liberals"

[Sparkle]

19. I did. It was very depressing.

I was puzzled but reading over the threads from last night, some say he was up to something. I sure do hope so because he was totally unlike Michal Moore.

[Bush was AWOL]

20. I think last night even makes him seem

more credible. I was impressed with him. If he starts ranting and raving most Americans will think he just think he is some wacked out dude that hates Bush.

[Pirate Smile]

29. We need to figure out the best way to reform the voting process and

get ballot initiative or amendments on the state ballots for 2006 to accomplish it.

Elections are run on the state level and we need to focus on them that way.

Repubs put all the gay marriage initiatives on the ballots in 2004. We need to look ahead and start the process for what we want to get accomplished.

edit to add - I was responding to the point about elections not changing unless the party in power wants them to - Screw that. I didn't get the memo to focus on weight and other BS.

[maxsolomon]

31. here's why his weight matters:

because if he doesn't get it under control, he's going to DIE. like john candy. and he's too valuable to the progressive cause to die when he doesn't have to. a "billionaires for bush" makeover is just what the MM haters don't want to see.

and if he was "reserved", its because the new GOP meme is that liberals (or "leftists", whatever that is) are so angry it just proves we're not qualified to rule.

its true: i'm MORE pissed than i was on november 3rd.

[Adelante]

34. Yeah, skinny people don't die NT

[LittleClarkie]

52. Well, not as quickly anyway

He looks almost as big as a friend of mine, who died of an aneurysm at 27. He was around 500 lbs.

[AngryAmish]

33. A voice of dissent re M. Moore

I never liked the guy. He has become very rich off of what I perceive to be a phony persona. I also do not like to be told what to think. I like to think for myself.

[sonicx]

36. Noone really 'tells' you what to think

they give opinions on why they think their ideas are the best. Everyone does this. You can reject the ideas if you choose.

[robbedvoter]

37. How did Moore compell you to think his way? Other than convincing you

that is.

[CatWoman]

39. did he "tell you what to think"

or did he present alternate views not reported by the media?

I don't get your drift.

[classics]

45. Funny.

'more obese MM'

'MM we need you, we ask you to please lose some weight'

I'm sure he will do just fine without looking more like you.

[Mend]

48. I wrote to him after the election

and said that I thought he assumed that if he showed the horrors of war, that people would care and vote against *. I said it was clear that millions of people were actually happy about the repukes' ability to inflict pain, death, and destruction. Maybe he came to the same conclusion and is depressed about the state of the human race....I know I am.

[bush_is_wacko]

49. MM should go on...

"The Biggest Loser" That would be a great place to bring his little Bush jabs to the Republican's who refuse to read and research their candidates! I really like MM, but he really is dangerously obese!

[Gloria]

53. I had read all the negative comments before watching last night

and my reaction was....not negative.

First of all, he pulled a Bill Clinton, explaining how he and Jay would do well under Bush because of all the money they made. (But, as I recall...he's donated most of the $$ from F911, if I'm not mistaken. The dumbasses don't know that, yet.)

He read a moving letter from a guy who was going to go to Iraq that was pretty ambivalent....but which underscored the sad plight of many of our soldiers in a way you won't get on the "news." He "plugged" his book, but it was only in passing, and in the context of that letter he read.

He talked about the "story" of the GOP which was, in my opinion, spot on. He also said it really didn't have anything to do with what actually was going on...in terms of our safety, etc. He also was accurate in saying that if you asked what the Democratic story was, you'd have to fish around a bit....

And, at one point, Leno made some comment about dressing and he said he was doing it for this one time....I got the feeling that whole suit thing was part of the opening joke about how he would do well with Bush's tax cuts. It was a finger in the eye at the dumbasses who don't get what Bush is doing to them.

And, he wasn't going to mention fraud or discuss the recounts because there is something afoot and he's not going to mess it up. He's not part of all the legal stuff and he is wisely...and perhaps under advice...NOT TO GO THERE. So, he hit the Bush tax giveaways, brought up the Iraq war via the soldiers, and mocked the GOP "story."

Not bad for one night.

And then Bruce Hornsby came on, and I was even happier.

[CatWoman]

55. thanks Gloria

you're a doll.

I always, ALWAYS, enjoy your posts. :hi:

[JohnOneillsMemory]

59. I think Bruce has put on weight and dresses funny and polarizes-oops.

I got confused for a minute.

Many of our troops in Iraq saw F911 and now know what the fuck happened to them.

Consequently, some of them won't be killing for oil if they can avoid it. And they might not be willing to die for oil either.

So Michael Moore has already saved lives.
Thank you, Michael Moore, for being a truth-teller with perseverance.