Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Remember, Monday is the day to Stop Alberto Torture Gonzales

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:41 PM
Original message
Remember, Monday is the day to Stop Alberto Torture Gonzales
Monday is the day planned for that call-in protest. If we don't win this one, we might as well all give up and fold. Anyone who doesn't want their family tortured will need to leave the country if he is confirmed. It's not just that he wrote the torture memo or that he's the inspiration behind Guantanamo, he has also stated very clearly that we have the right to break treaties and agreements at will. This is a violation of our own Constitution If he advocates breaking our constitution, how can we expect him to enforce or respect any rights. This guy belongs in jail. He certainly should not be our chief law enforcer.

Contact the judiciary, committee, whose numbers are posted below:
Senator Home Office Phone Home Fax
Patrick Leahy (802) 863-2525 (202) 224-3479
Edward Kennedy (617) 565-3170 (617) 565-3183
Joe Biden (302) 573-6345 (302) 573-6351
Herb Kohl (414) 297-4451 (414) 297-4455
Dianne Feinstein (415) 393-0707 (415) 393-0710
Russ Feingold (608) 828-1200 (608) 828-1203
Charles Schumer (212) 486-4430 (212) 486-7693
Richard Durbin (312) 353-4952 (312) 353-0150
John Edwards (919) 856-4245 (919) 856-4408

Also contact your Senators and the house minority leader, Harry Reid
Harry Reid (702) 388-5020 (702) 388-5030


One of the various groups leading this is patrickhenrythinktank.org
They have info up on their site concerning this call/fax protest.

Please keep this kicked.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
1. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. He wrote a torture memo. He made himself a torture advocate
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 03:50 PM by genius
Are you saying that lineage should be the primary reason for supporting a person? That sounds a little Republican and racist to me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WyLoochka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Yeah like it was better to
have Clarence Thomas? All races and ethnicities spawn some creeps. And right wing ideology captures some of these creeps across all racial, ethnic and gender lines.

NO, Gonzalez is not necessarily preferable to Ashcroft. He may even be worse. Ashcroft was a pain in the ass to the neocons. He was largely a laughing stock across the board, except to the fundies. Gonzalez has a more palatable "demeanor" and apparently has the respect of the neocons.

He is extremely ideological, and has a criminal mind. He could do a lot of damage.

As an advocate of law-breaking, he should not be confirmed as the country's top law enforcement officer. The Dems should take the high road and keep their hands clean by going on record 100% against confirmation.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
15. You have a whole lot of reading to do
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 05:35 PM by WilliamPitt
Stop with the superficial stuff. It takes up space and wastes time. If you are not informed on a topic, spare us the commentary.

Start here:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/111304A.shtml

The Quaint Mr. Gonzales
By Marjorie Cohn
t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Saturday 13 November 2004

(snip)

Notwithstanding his mild-mannered appearance, Gonzales is the iron fist in the velvet glove. Gonzales, whom Bush affectionately calls "mi abogado" ("my lawyer"), wrote one of the most outrageous torture memos. On January 25, 2002, Gonzales advised Bush that "the war on terrorism is a new kind of war, a new paradigm renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitation on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders some of its provisions quaint."

Oh really? The "quaint" Geneva Conventions are treaties ratified by the United States, and therefore part of the supreme law of the land under our Constitution.

Gonzales also provided Bush with novel defenses against potential war crimes prosecutions that might result from torturing prisoners captured in Afghanistan. The 1996 War Crimes Act says that grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions are war crimes. Thus, the definition of war crimes includes torture, inhuman treatment, and willful killing, as well as outrages against personal dignity. Gonzales advised Bush that he could avoid allegations of war crimes by simply declaring that Geneva doesn't apply to the war against the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

When Colin Powell saw Gonzales's memo, he reportedly "hit the roof." Powell wrote a counter-memo to Gonzales and Condoleezza Rice, warning of the immense damage this could do to the United States - legally, politically, militarily, diplomatically, and morally. To declare that the Geneva Conventions did not apply, Powell wrote, "will reverse over a century of U.S. policy and practice in supporting the Geneva conventions, and undermine the protection of the law of war for our troops, both in this specific conflict and in general."

Powell was right. The Geneva Conventions contain no loopholes that would allow the torture and inhuman treatment of prisoners. Even if a captive did not qualify for prisoner-of-war status under the Third Geneva Convention, he would be protected by the Fourth Geneva Convention on the treatment of civilians during wartime. And article 3 of both conventions prohibits torture, and humiliating and degrading treatment against anyone who is no longer fighting. It is well-established that article 3 applies to international, as well as internal, conflicts.

Bush didn't listen to Powell. On February 7, 2002, Bush declared that Geneva would not apply to Al Qaeda. He added that he had "the authority to suspend Geneva as between the United States and Afghanistan," but declined to exercise it at that time. Geneva "will apply to our present conflict with the Taliban," Bush said. But then, in a striking example of double-speak, he determined they were "unlawful combatants," ineligible for hearings to decide whether they were prisoners-of-war under the Third Geneva Convention. (Under the terms of Geneva, only a "competent tribunal" can make that determination). Bush also proclaimed that article 3 of Geneva didn't apply to either Al Qaeda or the Taliban prisoners.

After the pornographic torture photos, and memos justifying torture, leaked out last April, it was Gonzales who was charged with damage control. While being run out of town, Gonzales made it look like a parade by releasing more memos - though not all of them, then admitting to reporters that Team Bush "felt that it was harmful to this country, in terms of the notion that perhaps we may be engaging in torture."

Another controversial memo, dated August 1, 2002, from the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel to Gonzales, was one of the leaked documents. It opined that under the president's powers as commander in chief, interrogators who torture Al Qaeda or Taliban prisoners could be exempt from torture prosecutions.

Gonzales, still trying to stem the rising tide of outrage, said the August memo and another one from the Pentagon had only been meant to "explore the limits of the legal landscape." To his knowledge, said Gonzales, they "never made it to the hands of soldiers in the field, nor to the president."

In his January 25, 2002 memo, Gonzales also outlined plans to use military commissions to try prisoners, in order to deny them due process protections afforded by military and civilian courts. In a significant defeat for the Bush administration, a federal district court judge in Washington D.C. ruled earlier this week that the military commissions violate the Geneva Conventions, and were unlawfully constituted because Congress had not authorized them. The military commissions have been suspended indefinitely.

Gonzales's sordid record goes beyond his apologies for torture of prisoners. When he was counsel to Texas Governor George W. Bush from 1995 to 1997, Gonzales provided his boss with "scant summaries" on capital punishment cases that "repeatedly failed to apprise the governor of crucial issues: ineffective counsel, conflict of interest, mitigating evidence, even actual evidence of innocence," according to the Atlantic Monthly.

Gonzales prepared 57 such summaries, including one regarding the case of Terry Washington, a mentally retarded man executed for murdering a restaurant manager. The jury was never told about his mental condition. Gonzales's three-page summary of the case for Bush mentioned only that Washington's defense counsel's 30-page plea for clemency (which covered the mental competency issue) was rejected by the Texas parole board. Bush refused to stay executions in 56 of the 57 cases in which Gonzales wrote abbreviated memos.

...more...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
27. You Asked the Exact Same Question in at Least This Previous Thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1391132

My narrow experience on this discussion board is that a sure sign of flaming is when somebody will not acknowledge having been answered and continues to repeat the same question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. & NAVARRETTE Has the Same support-the-minority-BECAUSE-of-minority
A racist postion: Support GONZALEZ and RICE -----JUST BECAUSE------they are minorities.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2755739
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
StClone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Why can't we call the Republican Offices?
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 03:45 PM by StClone
They deserve an ear ringing don't they?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Good idea.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 03:49 PM by genius
Particularly Arlen Specter
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. We can't stop Gonzalez. Period.
and frankly, I'm not sure we should try. We should concentrate on making sure that the dem Senators do a proper job of questioning him so that the torture memo and other unsavory bits of information about him get out in front of the public again. Realistically, that's the most we can hope for. Senator Leahy has already said he'd support him, barring any unforseen information. I completely disagree with you that if we don't stop Gonzalez, we should give up. Supreme Court nominations are where we need to fight, and we actually have to pick and choose where we can be most effective in that arena. I don't like it, but that's the reality of being in the minority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. If we can't, then we should just quit. Ask the Dem Senators to come home
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What would you suggest they do?
I'm so tired of people dumping on Senators like Leahy who consistently fight the good fight. The only route open to them is to filibuster. Should they do that? It'll almost definitetly result in the thugs going "nuclear". Most dem Senators wouldn't go along with a filibuster, let alone the repubs. Their options are extremely limited. If you have a plan to stop Gonzalez, what is it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The nuclear option is illegal. Our senators need to be brave & filibuster
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't believe you're right. about the nuclear
option. Almost everything I've read suggests that it is legal and it could be done.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Albert Einstein Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. They need a two-thirds majoriy to change the fillibuster rule
They can't do it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. But if DEMS are brave, the GOP/media will be mean to them!!!
It's better not to make waves- if the media is mean to us, we may alienate swing voters- right?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. There are quite a few dem Senators that
clearly aren't intimidated by the repub/media reaction. I don't know what their reasons for not opposing Gonzalez are, but I'm not going to reflexively condemn them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Are there DEM Sens. are on TV bringing up the Torture memo...
and calling it "Un-Amercian?" Are they demanding to have Bush himself say whether or not he specifically supports this kind of torture? That is what the Repubs would do. They would call us "liars" and "communists" too.

And I am not reflexivly condeming anyone.

I've been working for the DEM party on the ground for years- so I have every right to criticise. They REFUSE to tell it like it is. They REFUSE to listen to their base.

This will be no exception.

But keep the faith baby, mabey they will fight for us some day in the distant future. Lets pretend we are "giving them enough rope to hang themsleves with"-There is always "next time" and "the next election." But for now, we walk on egg-shells so Judy Woodruff, Wolf Blitzer & Bill Frist wont "be mean to us."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I wasn't accusing you of anything.
I was speaking for myself when I said I refuse to reflexively condemn them. And some of them- although not enough- do fight for us. As far as seeing them on TV goes- I wish there was more criticism. Speaking only for my Senator, I know first hand that he does listen to his constituents, and that's reflected in his voting record and his actions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. So the answer is "no" then.
Edited on Sun Nov-28-04 06:20 PM by Dr Fate
If it aint "on the TV"- it did not happen.

I wish there was more criticism too- A LOT more in fact. I'd love to see DEMS assault the liars the same way they went after Clinton- but they are too scared Judy Woodruff & Bill Frist will be "mean to them" to do that.

DEMS could DESTROY Bush's political capital if they would SPEAK UP against his HUNDREDS of lies and scandals. But they refuse. Over and over and over, they refuse.

Are any prominent DEMS on TV demanding Bush go "under oath" about the Plame leaks, for example? No? Would the GOP do it if it was Clinton? YES- you say? See the difference?

For some reason, our DEM "leaders" are too stupid or frightened to realize these things.

I guess we will sit on our hands and wait for the pendulum to swing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:26 AM
Response to Reply #18
24. We?
No, we won't. Our leaders might but we won't.

Don't forget Poland? Hell, don't forget Ukraine!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. We have to force out side to stand up for us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #5
23. So therefore
if it's hopeless, don't try. No thanks. Yeah, we are going to suffer a lot of defeats but I will not back down even once. I'm just getting warmed up.

We are not the minority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. Save your energy
they will oppose him or not based on their own personal political needs and deal making that happened months ago.

Save your energy for getting rid of the most useless democrats in the next election and replacing them with some who have convictions.

Clue: they pass legislation without reading it. Gonzalez is the least of our problems.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Randers Donating Member (252 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Albert Einstein Donating Member (241 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. Let's forward this to everyone we know. It's time for bravery
Kerry's concession was enough cowardice for a lifetime. We need to act with courage and not be afraid of offending the Nazis.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. the DEM ground troops have been brave & hard working for years.
When oh when oh when will our DEM "leaders" start acting like we do?

Keep dreaming.

Our "leaders" are too scared of Judy Woodruff and Bill Frist to fight for for the people who donate their time, money and energy to the party.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dem2theMax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-28-04 09:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kicking as requested!
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cheswick2.0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:50 AM
Response to Original message
25. it's not going to happen
phone calls and e-mails mean nothing to the senate. They will ignore us as usual. Our only alternative is to run reform democrats against the worst of them in the next primaries....or all out revolution...bu there is TV to watch you know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. The Senate has listened before
But if you feel powerless, you're welcome to move to Canada.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
genius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-29-04 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. The home phone office phone number for Kennedy need corrected
Google came up with the same number but I can't get through there. Here is his Washington office 202-224-4543
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri May 03rd 2024, 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC