I want a street brawler in '08, NOT a 'chess player'!

[Padraig18]

Although recounts are being conducted, etc., I have no true hope that anything is going to change in terms of who gets how many electoral votes; in short, it's pretty much a lead-pipe cinch that * will take the oath of office on January 20th and Sen. Kerry will likely be looking on as he does.

I fought the good fight, folks; I canvassed precincts, I stuffed envelopes, I registered voters, I worked the phone banks, I gave money and I poll watched. I've earned a right to have my say, to my way of thinking, and here's what I've got to say:

Don't give me a 'chess player' in 2008, thank you very much. I want someone who's not afraid to 'get down in the mud, the blood and the beer' and play by 'Chicago rules': if they make one swift-boat commercial, I want to see TEN rabid-dog-going-for-the-jugular 'response' commercials within 72 hours, I want them to run TWICE as long as the original commercial and by God, I want at least one of them to say something nasty about the candidate's mother! If they start making calls in minority areas intimidating voters, I want an ARMY of Democats at the polls challenging every freaking Republican who comes in to vote if there's so much as an undotted 'i' or missing comma on their voter registration! If they raise one dollar, I want to raise two-- or three! I want private detectives to follow their mother-in-law to the bingo parlor, and their brother to the bathroom! I want their trash sorted through!

I've had it with 'nice' candidates! By God, give me a street brawler who's not afraid to cut the other bastard's heart out and eat it raw, warm and dripping, on live TV!

NO SURRENDER IN '08!

:grr:

[autorank]

1. You'll be happy to hear Dean may be our Dem Chairman!

I agree with you. I want Dean running the party and Clark out there pushing from now on as our candidate apparent. I think Clark should do a bus tour of all the Red states and just slam the shit out of Bush on the economy, war, and progress (e.g., stem cell research). Clark can be a nasty dude (just ask Milosovic). People in red states want red meat. Give it too them and the rest of the country too. Tired of seeing us sit back and be polite!

Vilsack Won't Seek Chairmanship of DNC

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1013272

[TwentyFive]

9. People want a LEADER - Howard Dean is that man!

And when that leader is an ethical, intelligent, compassionate, determined leader....people will go out and lay down in the streets for him or her.

Howard Dean....I would go lay down in the street for him, if it meant fighting a war to get rid of these rabid republicans!

[Missy Vixen]

17. If I were Howard Dean

I would start cleaning house at the DNC the minute I was hired.

I would fire whatever advertising agency the Democrats use, and hire the guy who came up with the "Brand Democrat" campaign. It's brilliant. What else does he (and other prominent bloggers,) have up his sleeve? Let's get some positive momentum going. Let's show people by word and deed that the Democratic Party stands for them again.

One thing's for sure, if Howard Dean was running the DNC, I'd start watching the Sunday Morning Gasbag shows again just to watch him put the smackdown on those who richly deserve it.

Let's take our country back.
Julie

[Padraig18]

22. I second all of those suggestions.

It's time to sweep clean with a 'new broom'.

[TwentyFive]

26. Exactly! Out with the Poodles - in with the Pit Bulls!

Clean house! Let's get some fighters who can define those republican fucks for the criminals they are.

[Padraig18]

28. Gouge eyes, bite ears, kick b*lls! Repeat!

NO MORE 'MR. NICE GUY' IN 08!

:grr:

[Missy Vixen]

54. To steal someone else's line

We Can't Wait Till 2008.

Other people's kids are fighting and dying in a desert because * couldn't be truthful. While I'm at it, other people's kids are going to bed hungry while their parents try to find a job, keep a roof over their heads, and get them educated in a school system that is slowly having the life sucked out of it by those who think that standardized tests are cure-alls.

What would happen in American politics if, instead of rolling over and playing dead, the Democrats decided to fight back? What DO we have to lose, anyway?

Julie

[JNelson6563]

47. Amen!

From the other Julie

:toast:

[Leilani]

55. It was Bob Shrum doing the commercials...

The way I understand it is, the Dems ad people (Shrummy) make a profit on every commercial they produce.

Whereas the Republicans have their ad people "in house" & are not profiting per commercial.

Throw them all out, & go get someone who knows what he or she is doing.

[Padraig18]

11. I have mixed emotions about Howard as DNC Chairman...

He'd do a GREAT job, I have no doubts whatsoever, but I'm not so sure I don't want him AND Gen. Clark on the ticket tearing the Republicans new assholes on a daily basis, and Howard couldn't do that as DNC Chairman.

:evilgrin:

[CAcyclist]

13. I read on another thread that Dean actually could run in '08

even if he is the chair. Just yesterday.

[goodhue]

33. DNC Chair must be impartial and evenhanded as to presidential candidates

See DNC Charter, Article Five, Section Four . . .

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v002/www.democrats.org/pdfs/charter.pdf

Dean could resign as DNC chair after 2006 election in order to run for prez in 2008. But as chair he must remain impartial.

[lojasmo]

45. Bwahaha!

Like Terry M. was last year?

Right. :eyes:

[bunkerbuster1]

81. So give him a chance to kick some reThug ass in 2006.

If he's our best shot for a Presidential candidate in 2008 he can step down and allow someone else to do some more ass kicking.

Main thing is, how do you Americans say, the kicking of the ass.

[Zookeeper]

2. Yes, yes, yes, Padraig!

The Rethugs are ruthless! It's time to give them a taste of their own medicine and put THEM on the defensive. Honestly, folks...we really have nothing left to lose!!

[Padraig18]

25. We have nothing to lose but our chains!

We... control...nothing! We have absolutely NOTHING left to lose, except our minoreity status!

[MuseRider]

3. Whew!

Wiping the sweat from my forehead. I am not so much for brawling but I do agree, we gotta be really tough. First we have to fix the voting in this country, if that is not done we may as well stay home.

[Padraig18]

6. I mean this in a non-sexist way, but...

not only do we have to fix the voting problems, we have to have a candidate who's got a set of stones!

:hi:

[TwentyFive]

23. HRC doesn't have stones - but whatever she's got, is really damn good!

[Padraig18]

24. In for a penny, in for a pound.

If she can do it, so be it, but whoever gets my support will have to promise me 'no surrender' first!

[OneMoreDemocrat]

80. Whoever it is next time around has to do more than 'promise'......

no surrender, they have to actually follow through on that promise.

I was promised "No Surrender!!" this year....in fact it was even sung to me, and yet when push came to shove our candidate evidently forgot his promise....or never meant it in the first place, which is even worse as far as I'm concerned.

[MuseRider]

31. I have been thinking about this issue,

there has to be a non sexist way to say that. While in many ways it does not bother me in some ways it does. I will have to give this some thought. I have been told ever since I started performing that the key to stage presence was a set of steel balls. It has been long used so for now I agree until I can think of a better term! :hi:

BTW, I think Kerry did but I think he was moderated way too much. I am not certain of what is going on now, I have to think for my own sanity that there is much more going on than we know. In not too much longer we should find out. I have a funny feeling we may disagree on who we need but we do agree that we need someone ready and willing to scrap.

[Padraig18]

32. Yes!

I wish I knew a better 'term of art' to use, so that it wasn't so clearly male-referenced. We may well disagree on the 'who' part, but I have little doubt that were on the same page as regards the 'what, why, where, when and how'.

:hi:

[MuseRider]

39. How about for now

we use the old fall back, but a great one IMO, intestinal fortitude? Not quite as easy or graphic but still, it sounds pretty good.

Edit to add Part of the problem with the term "balls" is that I get pissed when my gender is used to discribe something bad. While balls isn't a bad thing to say about guys it is still the same, refering to them by their genitals. Not quite fair to complain when one does it as well.

[Padraig18]

42. That works for me, darlin'!

:loveya:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

67. "Spine"

Both men and women have spines. :-)

[mistertrickster]

4. Damn right! If we are fated to lose another one, let's go down swinging

and hurt the bastards as much as we can . . .

The way it is now, we hit the canvas for nothing. Bush is just as strong as he was before the election.

[bushisanidiot]

5. I hear ya, brother. We took the high road and they took the low one

as expected. And, once again we find ourselves looking on in disbelief as yet another election was stolen and our guys were too nice to call them out on how they "won" the election.

[sampsonblk]

48. They took the same road they always take

Hopefully, next time we will be ready for them.

[GOPFighter]

7. Ditto!

I'm ready to sign on if you find someone like that. I would just love to live in a country where opponents at least respected each other, but as long as there are rabid Republicans that ain't going to happen here.

Newt Gingrich, Carl Rove, and Tom DeLay: we will never forget what you've done to our country, and we'll never forgive.

[JuniorPlankton]

8. Being a chess player myself

I don't think that "chess player" means "nice".
Though I understand the genereal meaning of your post

:mad:

[Yupster]

16. Agree with you plankton

I'm an old tournament chess player myself. My rating hit 2000 four different times, but I could never keep it there long.

Anyway, if you're a tournament player too, you'd probably agree that as a whole chess players, especially highly rated ones are a pretty obnoxious and unfriendly group of people.

I asked one high rated player who beat me if he could show me what I did wrong. He said that he didn't think there'd be any point in that. Another guy with admittedly halting english told me "you don't think right" when I asked him where I went wrong.

I'm sure you have your own stories.

[JuniorPlankton]

57. Yeah, I do

Once I lost to a guy at the US Open (2001 in Boston :)
When a friend of mine asked that guy how he did, the reply was something like "How do you think it could possibly go" :(
(My rating is 2300+)

Chess players are obnoxious as a whole, but so are the people as a whole.

[Guaranteed]

18. I hear ya...I'm a chess player, myself, and a political

street brawler.

e4, baby. :P

[AVESGA]

10. Gotta stop bringing knives to gunfights! n/t

[tk2kewl]

19. gotta stop bringing pens to gun fights

i haven't even seen a knife

[welshTerrier2]

12. we can't wait until '08 ...

hey, it rhymes ...

we need a street brawler NOW ... '08 is way too late ... if that person doesn't end up being the nominee, so be it ... we can't wait four years to start fighting back ...

[Padraig18]

15. We have to start fighting back NOW!

No more 'free passes' for Republicans! they bought it, and if they break it, I want to hear a veritable CHOIR of Democrats screaming every time they do!

[glitch]

14. I want a chess playing street brawler right now! nt

[Shopaholic]

20. I want a names-taking, ass-kicking,

candidate next time. I want someone who will have no qualms about hitting back as hard as they can against the media and the right-wingnuts. I want a fighter. Playing chess is totally optional.

[Padraig18]

21. Amen!

Take NO prisoners!

:grr::nuke:

[soothsayer]

27. I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller

I wish I had a girl who looked good

I would call her

I wish I had a rabbit in a hat with a bat

And a six four Impala...

[zulchzulu]

29. As long as we have paperless black box voting machines, it doesn't matter

The system is gamed.

Until we have election voting reform, you can have the angriest, meanest, most bad-ass candidate with all the money in the World to be able to make a bunch of ads (@ $2-10 Million a piece to distribute) to defend against lies, he or she would still lose in the Election.

Add that without a right-wing corporate media to achieve the goal to getting the Repug in, you also will have to address that "little problem" too.

But first, election voting reform is the canvas you need before you start painting the picture.

[Padraig18]

30. See post #3, and my reply in post #6.

You're absolutely right, of course, as long as we remember the 'artist' after we get the canvas right.

[grasswire]

34. I want someone who looks like Karl Malden

And no more "nice ladies" for campaign chair. We want baracudas.

Intimidating people arise! Your party calls.

[Padraig18]

35. I want a pit bull on steroids with an abcessed tooth!

Anything less will NOT be able to fight back successfully.

;)

[AmerDem]

36. I'm in your camp Padraig, 100%

We need someone who goes right for the throat. Someone that will organize all the so called talking heads of our party to attack these news people non stop. Someone who will get on television and call out the Karl Roves of the world. Someone who will let the American people know about the completely fraudulent e-voting system that has taken our democracy away from us. We don't need party leaders like Pelosi and Reid. They are too soft spoken but more importantly they aren't taken serious by anyone other than the Washington inner circle that anointed them.

[depakid]

37. Kinda funny how all the "chess players" here have gone silent

or conveniently developed some form of memory loss.

Many of us saw what was coming before the convention when the "no Bush bashing rule" came out... it didn't take a genius to see we were being set up for a repeat of 1988.

I wonder how many people who voted for Kerry in the primaries would have done so had the known that his "strategy" was basically to follow Dukakis' lead and simply roll over for 6 weeks?

He promised not to do that- and yet that's exactly what he did- and some of who screamed bloody murder at the time were rountinely flamed and derided as "not understanding that Kerry is playing chess."

Forget chess. How many Americans even know what a book opening is? 5% would be my guess- whereas more than 1/2 can probably tell you something reasonably astute about football....

Hit 'em hard, hit 'em low and keep hitting 'em. That unfortunately is how you win election in America. Soft cerebral types- get a clue. Do whatever it takes and "Just win, baby."

[sampsonblk]

46. If you look hard enough, you can still find a few...

repeating the same garbage, and calling the rest of us Monday morning quarterbacks.

"Hit 'em hard, hit 'em low and keep hitting 'em." - AMEN

[Stinky The Clown]

38. You are **Fucking**A**RIIGHT***

"cut the other bastard's heart out and eat it raw, warm and dripping, on live TV" is really a new liberal value as far as I'm concerned.

[Padraig18]

41. Would-be nominees, you are forewarned!

If you do not have the ability to rip the beating heart out your Republican opponent's chest and eat it raw, warm and dripping on live TV, get back on the porch with the puppies, because we need a BIG, mean, junkyard dog for the fight in '08!

[Cuban_Liberal]

56. WOOF!

:evilgrin:

[Padraig18]

83. WOOF, WOOF!

:evilgrin:

[Larry in KC]

40. Remember this Clark moment from the campaign trail

On his way out a veteran asked in a pained voice: "In the NH and South Carolina GWB trashed Senator McCain in his commitment to veterans"

"I know", Clark said.

"Are you going to take the offensive and not allow him or the other democrats to use the Radko Mladic hats or any officers that didn't appreciate your raising to the top (he mixed Shalicashvili for Shelton) use that against you? Are you going to take the offensive?"

Clark: "Of course I will! I'll beat the shit out of them!"

And he will!

[Sugarbleus]

43. I say, nominate an "Activist"....Martin Sheen!!!

Guys been in everyone's face/cause since forever... Why let Ronnie and Arnold have all the fun!?

[Leilani]

44. Great Post!!! I don't want JUST a closer,

I want a Starter, a Middler, & a Closer!!!!

[Malva Zebrina]

49. No more senators who play chess according to belt way politics

They have been too ingrained to the good old boys club and it is a tragedy that they manipulate us even if they profess to be on our side-- the people's side that is.

They have a mighty fine, cushy job, and in the final tally, would rather keep that job than defend the people of AMerica-they have a mighty fine education, --even if they do have millions of dollars and acres and acres of estate in Pennsylvania while the people are going further and further downhill

And what is the answer to that? Why we are the statesmen. Why we are the elite, with the millions of dollars and the education at Yale and Harvard and we are the ones who will screw you in order to keep that indentity.

What have they got to lose if they lose an election? Nothing. They go back to their cushy life and v acations and the good life. They can afford health care at it's finest--but get it off the tax payer money anyhow. They have the best of everything in their job as the senatorial elite who need to be addressed as the "HONORABLE". And, if they want to run, then let them give that all up and run a campaign for the people, goddam it, who pay them to represent them, and not to screw them by being nice to a fascist pig who is destroying us all.

Not to mention the atrocity of Iraq.

[janx]

50. THE TEA IS IN THE HARBOR! n/t

[leftist.]

51. GREAT F'ING POST!

Was anyone like me? When the "Swift Boat" nonsense first started, I was talking to some friends trying to figure out why Kerry wasn't at Oneil's house THE NEXT GODDAM DAY, full press in tow, with his sleeves up, his hair tousled, and a crowbar clenched in his right hand.

"I'm here today to do some necessary dental work on Mr Oneil!"

And when they promise me no fucking surrender (and I'm looking at YOU, Kerry) they had better do it on a blood oath ... I mean, someone had better open a vein this time because anything less is unacceptable after Kerry put his white flag up so fast.

Great post, man!

[quaker bill]

52. You nailed it

The time for pleasantries is over. The revolution is now.

[Cuban_Liberal]

53. F*cking A, Paddy!

:thumbsup:

[kentuck]

58. The "brawler" has to kick "chess players" ass in the primaries....

The moderates will follow. They always do.

[Cuban_Liberal]

62. The '08 primary season may be a repeat of '04

One thing we need to do is be sure to support the 'brawler', rather than sit back eating popcorn while the others and the media destroy him/her, like we did this year.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

68. And not be dissuaded by talk of "electability"

"I really prefer Kucinich/Dean/Clark, but he can't win."

Enough of that.

[LoZoccolo]

72. Yes, in order to win, we need to nominate someone...

...who we're not as sure can win. We can't give it the slightest thought.

[LSdemocrat]

59. My sentiments exactly

[mtnsnake]

60. This is the single most important thing we can do

is what the OP says.

We could nominate ANYONE, and if they're a pushover like what we just experienced, then we'll be sunk again before we even start.

The two people who I think would have a fine combination of leadership skills and TOUGHNESS would be Hillary and Obama.

To Obama you could add his inspirational qualities and to Hillary you could add her political savvy. For either of them, smirking off any dumbass repuke attacks would be like taking candy from a baby.

[Sputnik]

61. Clark's the man

"What makes it interesting, while doing reporting on it, I called Wesley Clark, the former NATO commander, who is sort of an interesting guy in this stuff, because early in the war, early in my reporting on the war, I had written critically about a Delta Force operation. Delta is the secret unit of the army. The commander unit. They had been ambushed. The Delta guys were enraged. I'm talking about the first month of the war because they had been sent on this stupid operation and they had gotten hurt very badly. And they don't like it. Delta guys, they like to crawl in little holes for a week and get to their target. They were ordered to do it in a different way. Everybody denied the story like crazy. And Wes Clark, to his credit, told a bunch of newspapers, "Look, I know this is right." I had said 13 people were hurt and he said 12 was the number that he had. I saw in him somebody with a great streak of integrity, difficult he may be. In any case, I called him about this story while I was doing it. He encouraged me to write it. I didn't write it. About a year-and-a-half later, he's running for president. I mention this in the book, and I bump into him, and he jumped all over me. He said, "Why didn't you do that story?" I said, "Well, I just thought, it just would have been -- I just didn't do it." He said, "You should have done it. That was your job." Pretty scary. You know, he was right." - Sy Hersh http://www.democracynow.org/static/hersh_trans.shtml



Bill Maher: OK. I'm just wondering, of all the people who have the credentials to say "liberal" is not a bad word, I'm wondering if I could get you to say that.
Wes Clark: Well, I'll say it right now.
Bill Maher: Good for you!
Wes Clark: We live in a liberal democracy. That's what we created in this country. It's in our constitution! We should be very clear on this... this country was founded on the principles of the enlightenment. It was the idea that people could talk, have reasonable dialogue
and discuss the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get struck by a divine inspiration and know everything,
right from wrong. People who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, and dialogue,
and civil discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back


"I'll beat the shit out of them." - Wes Clark in response to what he would do if his political opponents questioned his patriotism


During the Bosnian war, Gen. Wesley Clark was among a group of U.S. officials forced to drive a dangerous mountain road outside Sarajevo because the Bosnian Serbs refused to guarantee their safety on a more direct route. Then came tragedy: one of the group's armored personnel carriers slipped off the road and crashed down the mountainside. Clark immediately risked his life to rappel down to the burning APC in a futile attempt to rescue those inside. http://www.wesleyclark.h1.ru/profile.htm

[fujiyama]

63. You said it!

Let's call them for their bullshit!

For example, we should have had push polling calls out to southern and midwestern states telling the people that abortions have gone UP since Bush got in office.

We need to play rough. I was appaled by how meek the Dems were in addressing (or more accurately NOT addressing the Swift Liars). We should have had a million ads with Bush's relationship with the Saudis, and his unwillingless to confront the terrorism problem beforehand.

Not only that but why the hell didn't the party take on the PATRIOT Act? The one senator that voted against it got the most votes in his state than any other person (Fiengold won reelection by about 10%, compared to KErry winning the state by 1%).

Enough bullshit! Enough chess and judo bullshit. I want a street battle!

[ulysses]

64. I'm more of a checkers man myself.

;-) Did we ever find out who Dem Strat was?

:thumbsup:, Paddy!

[callous taoboy]

65. I ate this post and washed it down with Guinness!

BURP! Tastey!

[LoZoccolo]

66. Quinnipiac University Poll. Jan. 28-31, 2004

George W. Bush: 43%
John F. Kerry: 51%

George W. Bush: 49%
Howard Dean: 44%

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh04gen6.htm

[Sandra_Deaniac2]

69. "Quinnipiac University Poll. Jan. 28-31, 2004"

Hey now.........those were both really really wrong, weren't they?

[LoZoccolo]

71. They do not match the final results, true.

But there's still this big gap between Kerry and Dean with regards to Bush*. I don't think Dean could have done better than Kerry is what I'm trying to say. I think Dean would have lost by more.

[LuminousX]

73. To be fair... Dean never got a chance to run against Bush

I happen to be a Dean supporter who believes Dean would never have been able to withstand the GOP machine. I don't think we could have put anyone up in 2004 who would have won. We were playing cards in their casino and the game was fixed right from the beginning.

[LoZoccolo]

75. Me too. Dean wouldn't have done as well at the debates.

I think certain things that Bush* said would have been responded with anger and outrage by Dean, and some people here would like it, but it would have wasted time to present a counter-agenda and just made him look like he was losing big and desperate. Kerry held up excellently during the debates.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

78. Oh, you've convinced me.

Everyone knows I'm a sucker for raw accusation.

[Q]

74. Lost by more? You either win or lose....

...and if you lose...why does it matter by how much?

The point is we need to fight back and not flinch every time they try to intimidate us. If we lose...at least we'll lose knowing we didn't sell out or back down.

[Cheswick2.0]

76. Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean

I didn't see a mention of Dean in the OP.

Let him go. Just like Clinton isn't President, Dean is no longer an issue. Let it go. He is helping other democrats run for office...ooooooooooh scary.

[LoZoccolo]

79. No, but he's what people think of by the OP.

You can see this quite early into the thread.

[Cuban_Liberal]

82. Dean is performing incredible service to our party.

I'd have no problem with Dr. Dean. Although I didn't support him this last time, I never had the problem with him that some people seemed to have, I simply liked someone else better.

:)

[Julien Sorel]

70. "Afraid." "Wimpy." "Cautious."

"Spineless." "Pink tu tu."

Somewhere in the white House, a fat, 50-odd year old sociopath is laughing his ass off.

[unfrigginreal]

84. Because of the truisms