Monday Night Football soft porn intro hurts...who else? Dems.

[mrgorth]

I don't know how many saw it but I was at an even to watch the Eagles trounce the cowboys this past Monday night. As an intro they had an actress from desperate housewives (a show which offends me in the first place) talk Terrell Owens into not playing the game so he could romp with her. In the spot she sheds a towell, provacatively. Both ABC and the NFL have taken a lot of abuse over the spot. Frankly, I was bothered by it since it was 9 and MNF isn't supposed to be something you have to shield your kids from. As I watched it all I could say was "this hurts us". Freaking ABC, knowing the heat that CBS took over Janet Jackson puts this crap out there and the fundies can feed off of it. How many fundy preachers or politicians will use vielded references to this spot to get votes or money and then procede to do nothing about it. A) Why can't "the TV people" learn to stop doing this shit? and B) Why can't we come out against it for once? Take the culturally conservative stance when it is right?

[kanrok]

1. I was listening (gaaaacccckkkk) to Limp-balls

in the car this morning. He was railing all about this. It's now another "conservative" issue. I ignore 'em.

[mrgorth]

2. Sometimes we shouldn't

Look. I'm not saying we need a minister of information but when shit stinks we should say it stinks.

[MaineYooper]

102. criticize quality (or lack thereof) not morality (alleged lack thereof)

Let the whacko right gets up on their high horses about the "shock".

I just find it to be typical of the lowbrow way ABC packages MNF. (I love football, by the way, but hate the bs that now surrounds it)

[farmbo]

107. "The Conservative Elites" now run the FCC and Monday Night Football

Hell...the Conservative Elites run Everything!

Al Michaels little "flip- flop" (rehearsed) comment during the New England game is fair proof of that.

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh091004.shtml

[liberal N proud]

3. Why do you subject your self to the misery of listening to that

fat drug adict.

[kanrok]

5. It's akin to watching a car wreck for me.

He's so over the top that I have to laugh.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

97. We know why Limbaugh is pissed.........

Black guy, blonde woman..........


Oh, and it involves the Iggles. His least favorite team in the NFL.

[Flammable Materials]

100. Limbaugh didn't like it because, like most neocon gasbags ...

... he is turned off by the sight of the naked female body.

[wug37]

4. I don't know what the big deal is

There was no nudity in the spot. Just some PG or PG-13 rated stuff. As one guy interviewed on my local news (Philly) said, "My kid has seen worse in his cartoons". But at least we trounced the cowboys.

[seabeyond]

15. my kids have seen worse

that just isnt good enough. and when you have kids i would hope you would know this. a lot of the cartoons are not kid friendly, good healthy shows, so that isnt a good enough validation

[wug37]

23. I don't get what you're trying to say

Could you please clarify? I know that a lot of cartoons aren't kid friendly. I've seen the cartoon network at night, and I agree with that statement. But what is it that you are trying to say about validation?

[seabeyond]

30. there is a bunch of crap being fed to kids on cartoon

so the parent restricts what kid see. to say this isnt a big deal cause there is crap in cartoon isnt good enough. they have to get the crap off here too. i dont care what adults watch, i dont care what adults do with their sex life, i do care that my husband cant sit down and watch football on a saturday or sunday and have to be concerned with what commercial is going to be put on that the kids shouldnt see

my husband just wants to watch some football. now he is feeling he has to turn that off to, cause it is becoming smutt, and he doesnt want his sons to learn this is how you view female.

[wug37]

44. That makes sense

But we're talking about Monday night after 9:00 pm. Kids who really shouldn't be seeing that shouldn't be up or watching football anyway. Or are you saying that violence is ok for kids to see but sex isn't?

[seabeyond]

50. 7 oclock here. so not too late.

boys go to bed at 8 and read til 8:30 if interested. but is early enough in the evening that they may hang with father. as far as the violence of sport, i have been in competitive sport all my life my brother was a really good football player. i can appreciate the sport. i dont particular like and vocally call the poor sportsmanship, bad loser and bad winner stuff that goes on. but tackling, no i dont see it as violent game. but........

my children arent interested in the game, maybe later in a bonding and hangin with father, but not now. they would rather play with toys, computer or again, read or play outside.

but this isnt my problem, last monday nite. where i have the issue is because it is a predominantly male show, they feel to have women in degrading mode for their entertainment. and it is on during the weekend days. my husband can and will turn off tv if he feels the need. we have already stopped routine of watching news at night and in morning when we wake up. no more news. we will simply turn this off too.

my children will be taken care of, but this isnt my point. and i dont like being dismissed to being a prude because i speak out. consistant with the we dont want to hear, so will dismiss you. not doing that role, not for the repugs, and not for the male that wants their porn

[wug37]

56. That time zone thing

Didn't consider the difference in time zones. I'm so used to being in the eastern time zone and tv times bing on that time zone. I also now understand where you're coming from. Your issue isn't necessarily with that particular scene, but with the way society deals with sex and women's roles. That's a tough one to solve since that requires a huge upheaval of society, and people just aren't comfortable with that kind of quick radical change. I say, if you really want this problem to ever be solved, talk to your kids and let them know what's out there. Shielding them from it won't help since at some point they will have to experience it. Explain to them your opinions and thoughts on it, why it's wrong and and all that. Hope they take that with them. Of course, you're the one with kids and I'm not, so it could be that I'm just blowing this out may ass with no clue what I'm talking about.

That last paragraph didn't make much sense, but it seemed to say that you would blow me off. I hope that's not the case, and if I have offended you or made you think that I was blowing you off as a prude, I apologize. That was not my intent.

[seabeyond]

65. turn off tv or go back to afghanistan

are the dismissive comments to ignore the issue, without thought, basically telling a person to shut up,. my concerns are not valid. i was referring to that. not to you. no

and i am not easily offended, girls, guys, we are all conditioned. i was. then i grew up. my husband was, then he grew up. now life is much easier for the both of us

my just turned 7 year old saturday nite, sittin with me on my bed said, mom to make a baby does a man stick his penis in a womans butt.

the next day, i was watching a comedy, cbs, everyone loves raymond type show, and they were saying sex, over and over as 9 year old walks in and says, everyone is so obsessed with that word. where do you hear it i say. everywhere he says. then proceeded to tell me standing in line at grocery store all the magazines have it on the cover and he was reading them today. yup

cant shield a kid from it. deal with it each moment it comes up, and bring to the good healthy and balanced sex you want the kids to embrace. in a repectful manner both to themselves and to their partner.

driving down the street the 7 year old learning to read, sees a bulliten board telling girls to not get preg, or boys use a condom or just say no to sex.

my kids have an healthy example of two parents respectful to each other, loving towards each other. they are going to be ok. but this isnt just about my kids. we are going to talk to our kids, they already have a pretty good idea on mutual respect and kindness. you know that moral value, lol.

having two boys i have certainly learned to embrace the boy and respect the boy, the boy transcending to manhood. a wonderful process. for any man to sit next to a 6, 7 year old daughter trying to see what it is to be a woman, yes that young, we are conditioning them to do that young, in every way, for a father to sit next to his daughter, and watch a grown woman half naked humping the ground, boobs hanging out of top, crawling to camera, licking her lips, and then pursing them for a blow job, the cutting off to room full of studly males hoopin and hollarin like she is going to come thru the camera and give each one a blow job, i assure you, that man will then understand.

and if he doesnt, that is truly sorry.

[maxrandb]

38. But They Find Nothing Wrong

With several teaser shots of the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders dancing around in skimpy outfits??? Hell, I've seen more material in a hand towel than I've seen in the cheerleader outfits.

[Politicub]

62. It wasn't a big deal

If the fundies didn't get offended by this, something else would have made them reach for the pearls.

[Uzybone]

6. But wehat if you really are not bothered by it...

I wasnt. Still not. No nudity, no curse words, no sexual contact. Why the big deal? I really think that if it was a white football player and a white actress we wouldnt be hearing half of the complaints we have now.

[mrgorth]

8. Oh God

can we stop that it's racial please.

[DrWeird]

14. So then you're equally offended...

by the beer commercials with bikini girls?

[seabeyond]

20. i am by the thirdboob commercial

that had a near naked woman in a snow scene crawling on the ground like she is humping it to a camera licking lips and pursing them like she is going to give a blow job, shot off into a room of ten young white males cheering her on like she is going to crawl thru the lens to give them all a blow job . ya i am. and ya, it is pretty damn shitty i have to shield my sons 5 and 7 from tv at 3 in the afternoon on a saturday and sunday, when they want to tlak to their father

[mrgorth]

104. Yes and no

I think those commercials are absurd but they're kind of expected now. My problem with the MNF intro was that such a spot isn't "par for the course" at that time.

[obreaslan]

21. With fundies, it's always racial...

See also: Bob Jones University dating policies
Voter Intimidation/Disenfranchisement <--Big word.

[obreaslan]

16. Exactly! I think that's where the fundie's problem is...

If it hadn't been a white actress with a black athlete, there wouldn't have been as big an uproar. Even if it had been a black actress and a black athlete, I don't think there would have been so much hoopla.

This country needs to stop taking itself so seriously. This was at worst, a PG moment. Any kid that should not have been watching it, should have already been in bed. Much like any other TV/Radio that people find offensive, TURN IT OFF, YOU ARE NOT FORCED TO WATCH!

BTW, GO EAGLES!!!!!

[NoPasaran]

7. The Cowboys lost?

FAR OUT!!!

[seabeyond]

9. these football teams players owners sponsors and watchers

are the ones that voted bush. first. secondly i saw my first coors boob twins commercial since coor ran for senate from colorado. he took his sexist degrading soft porn commercials off the football games while he was running for senate to present his family values. once lost the commercials are back

these are aired on saturday and sunday afternoon, certainly not a time to keep aways from little boys or girls

now, as republicans and christians tell me about moral value, until i see them go after their own, this man, screw em all

[fishwax]

69. Yeah, Coors is a huge hypocrite

but fundies and republicans often don't care much about the beam in their own eye, when there are so many specks to notice elsewhere.

[seabeyond]

73. these are who we go after

as a party attack these. edwards wanted to go after the viagra commercial. build on that. corporate responsibility for our pure and moral values, wink. and in the process do us parent a favor, so we dont have to discuss whole repoductive behavior to a 6 year old

[fishwax]

94. I'd prefer to point out their hypocrisy rather than go after anyone

I think attacking the hypocrisy diffuses any damage such issues may cause democrats, without putting the party in the role of moral policeman.

[seabeyond]

98. if we cant even agree that there should be a few channels kids

can watch safely without having influences that arent appropriate, then screw it. i will give up tv. not an issue in this house. but there are a lot of kids that dont have parents that do their job. and this isnt good for them. it isnt a matter of censor, it is a matter of having a little of this world safe for children.

this is what amazes me about the dems, as they say they want the vote of all those parents yet then rejects the parents desire to have a healthy enviroment for their children. then they are critized for looking for some party that will represent their children.

so basically i am hearing on this thread, screw the kids, this is our world, and we want a tv that continually always offers us the ability to degrade women in whatever fashion we chose and all you silly ass prude parent screw yourself. this is our world. you just stay out of it if need be

now vote for our party cause we are so much better

[fishwax]

101. Well, I never said screw the kids

but I also don't think it is a foregone conclusion that everyone would be upset if their kid saw the promo last night.

I think dems want a healthy environment for parents to raise their children ... and that means making sure they have access to healthcare; preventing the coming of the military draft because we've spread ourselves too thin militarily fighting unjust wars; making sure that regulation of drinking water (arsenic levels), air quality, and medicine prevents unnecessary dangers to children (not to mention adults); seeing to it that education is funded properly, so that schools don't have to sell out to soda companies and fast food, compromising children's health to an extreme degree all in order to keep the lights on ... I could go on, but ... to me these are all more obscene and threatening to children's safety than the monday night football bit.

Anyway, I'm all for a safe environment, and I think most dems are. I know some dems (though I don't think most) will dismiss your concerns out of hand, and that can be frustrating. I'm making no attempt to take your concerns lightly, but, honestly, who determines what influences aren't appropriate?

[seabeyond]

106. i did not see this demo, so i cant say specific on this

but if it is what i am hearing, a woman doesnt want a man to play the game because he is good so she gets naked and says lets screw to keep him busy and he misses the game.

you think this isnt a big deal to teach a 7 year old. that a woman wants something from a strange man she doesnt know, she takes off her clothes and says lets fuck

and you dont see that as a problem as a parent. so son sees it, i have to chat about how some people use their bodies to get what they want, an adult thing, not necessarily good yada yada yada

again i didnt see this so i dont know

lets take the coor commercial, a woman is crawling on the ground, humping the ground and the boys on the other side of the camera are hollering for her to come on thru to give them a blow job, so i have to explain to sons, that men like to create this in woman to make them less and dominate over them and isnt a nice thing and as they grow up they have to have a respectful healthy image of woman to yada yada yada

jackson and timberlake dancing in total sexuality, he reaches over and rips her brazzier thing off as he says he is going to do her, i have to tell boys, men arent allowed to rip off womens tops yada yada yada

what are all these images of a woman. positive? is this a womans worth? is this what sexuality between partners are about. is there a balance in power between the two, the man and woman in all these three spots

or is it a male being the one in power in all three spots. is the woman in a demeaning position in all three spots.

we are talking how our young girls see themselves. are they powerless to a man or equal

we are talking how young boys see a woman, are the equal to a woman, or powerful over them

we have the attack of religious right on woman putting them under male control

we have the howard sterns.........

we have moms that are no longer the nurturing mom and dont know what to do with there kids, and fathers that dont want that job and married couples that cant stayed married more than a year or two if that and a nation of kids not being taken care

so i put it right up there with healthcare ect. i put it right up there with equal rights. i put it with the basic battle of male vs female and female is losing bad.

having this conversation on the board last nite, watching a totally fine movie son walks in, i am petting dog and he is talking sex again. personally i have had enough talk about sex to last me a while. was on a commercial and how to use sex in a bad way, my son tells me. i dont know what the fuck he is talking abut. a commecial?

we have insisted our children learn all the adult things as a child. we give them adult life to figure out. and we give them no time to mature so they can consume these adult lesson in maturity. asking a 6 year old to figure out the whole sex thing, male female thing is asking an awful lot out of him.

i am sorry to see so many people dont get it. hence one of the things really pissing of a majority of parents. madonna, madonna that gave all of us this crap a decade or two ago, she sees, she knows it is wrong for her kids. if it is wrong for her kids, it is wrong for all the kids. if it is wrong for my kids, it is wrong for the neigbor kids.

[seabeyond]

108. btw, it is right up there

with continually talking with boys were the unhealthy is with the christian right right now. it is equal to me having to continually talk to them of nice vs mean in our society. it is right there with teaching them to own what they do in life. with not being a victim in life, with honesty and integrity in a world that have forgotten the definition

parents today are being hit on all sides with little support. trying to get there children thru a time of total chaos. we are being bombarded. 9/11 my kids are spinning out of control with the sadness. we are having to learn another culture to find the grace in what happened and not hate, in an enviroment of christians that are in battle. to love nation and soldiers and know we are the bad guys. that is a challenge for a little one. we have a president that lies everywhere and a nation that honors him. i have to teach my kids to be aware of the lie, understand they dont have to hold responsibility cause they are in aware and all the people that voted for bush, this is his lesson, not theirs. but still we have to love these people, not hate them. or we are feeding the same thing

parents are working there ass off here

we are making them aware of clean air and water. about their future in fiscal responsibility. we are teaching them about the whole world knowing they are going to have to clean up our mess and the only way they can do it is in integrity and grace and love. and educated and smart and on the ball.

i think kids have enough of a responsibility in this very adult world we have created for them

a nation of kids on drugs, they are spinning out of control

[fishwax]

110. You are putting words in my mouth, and I rather wish you'd stop

I never said this wasn't a big deal to teach a 7-yr-old. But just because a 7-yr-old sees it, doesn't mean he is "taught" it. I said that it is not a foregone conclusion that all parents would be upset by this kind of thing, which is pretty true. The parental model I most respect and that I have seen be most effective is the one whereby parents *explain* these things, as you apparently do. Congratulations, it sounds like you take that responsibility seriously, and that is worthy of respect.

The parental model that consistently fails is the one whereby parents don't want their kids to know anything, and when anything potentially offensive comes up they don't want to talk about it, just change the channel and pretend it doesn't exist, so the kid can get all his information online or on the playground.

As far as the Coors commercial, I agree that it is degrading to women. And further, I thought that the mimed sexual violence of the super bowl show was offensive, but the nipple was no big deal. The mnf spot shows a sexual aggression by a female (itself extremely offensive concept to fundies, who don't think women should have ANY control over their sexuality), but doesn't show a woman as a victim. It seems to me that subtle (and not so subtle) violences against women are prevalent in popular culture. The proper response, in my opinion, is not to say "kids shouldn't see that!" but rather to say "violence against women should not be acceptable, and the public should be educated to reject images and themes which subtly perpetuate these offensives." Then, maybe if a man aggressively rips the shirt off of a woman, the public will be mad at the man for violating the woman, rather than mad at the woman for having her nipple exposed.

And finally ... "if it is wrong for my kids, it is wrong for the neighbor kids" ... does your neighbor get a say in that, or is that your final decision? Shall we all bow to our neighbor's will in raising our children? If your neighbor doesn't allow his children to watch movies that don't promote a Biblical worldview (I have known plenty of parents that are that way), will you assent to his standards and impose the same on your children? I'm not asking these questions to be sarcastic ... they are at the very heart of the larger question.

[seabeyond]

116. good post

And finally ... "if it is wrong for my kids, it is wrong for the neighbor kids" ... does your neighbor get a say in that, or is that your final decision? Shall we all bow to our neighbor's will in raising our children? If your neighbor doesn't allow his children to watch movies that don't promote a Biblical worldview (I have known plenty of parents that are that way), will you assent to his standards and impose the same on your children? I'm not asking these questions to be sarcastic ... they are at the very heart of the larger question.


my brother is an alcoholic, his wife is an alcoholic. my brother is mean and controlling and his wife allows it. (x sorry, this has been a decade of shit, i do the mop up) my brother would put porn calendars on the wall and say it is beauty, it is art. i want my daughter to embrace her female. she is 5, you know the relationship of a father and daughter at five, filled in sexuality, yup........cause of the daughter learning male/female and in her conclusions at such a young age, gonna be indicitive of who she marries. ya, important shit.

i said, no it was to control and degrade and let all women who walk in your house to know their place.

my brother never had restriction, nor did the mother, what the children watched

was theirs to do. my children wasnt around it. when those kids come into my house it isnt allowed.

i take responsibility for only me, i can do only me, but i do know, that that isnt healthy for those kids. i do know, i have no more of a responsibility but to speak out and give them love. because my brother has the right to porn.

you all have clearly told me.

there are things we do in this home, that others dont approve. truth be known, if i were to mention a couple, there would be someone to tell me i need to have my kids taken from me because i am irresponsible/

i have heard it, i know it is true, i have been told by people on this board. and i laugh. to be aware of something, to be able to see it in truth, and i know this feeding of kids perverted sex is not healthy and isnt going to create joy in their life. i dont want that for my children any more than i want them to embrace the not owning thing, or lying, or stealing or anything else that isnt healthy. like any parent. i will be the first to stand up for that right of the parent that has that porn calendar, but..........i know it isnt healthy for the kids.

when those children are ready to look at their experience and see why they are retarded in their sexuality, as young adults, i will be the one holding their hand, in love and helping them to see, so they can heal

is that good enough

but,........my husband should be able to turn on tv, and watch a football game. and my children should be able to see their father, without having to see human beings in their worst. on childrens tv, if they are feeding my kids, kids that are only angry, sad, stupid, be less, the tv is turned off. my kids dont want to watch it either. they know people are conditioning them. they know it isnt for the good, they dont want to play the game. i put the work into kids to let them see the basis, not just bandaid something, but give them the ability to take within and make their own choice. so they have a foundation.

but the world is making us have to do it with every single friggin adult thing, that adults are fucked up in,.........my kids are having to do it all. give them a break, a breather

or i turn off tv. if people dont want to be reasonable

so yes, in essence, way more than most, i allow people to do themselves, i am too busy doing me, and teaching kids to do themselves.

was just asking for some help. a tired parent, but........a good parent that will do it all, if you all dont want to help me along. like i tell my boys, we are that good.............

and i say, i am not going to let people lie. not honoring that. so, when people tell me (not you) screw the kids, if i want sex an porn and making women less, by gosh, i dont care about that kid, i can do what i want

i get to say, ass. i just do. my right

and we as dems, can own that too. because this is exatly what a lot of parents are hearing from democrats, read the thread, you will hear it right here, from..............democrats

each and everyone gets to speak out and demand. doesnt mean i have to buy into it

[chefgirl]

135. I've read your posts

After reading all your posts in this thread, the over-arching thing you seem to be saying is that you're pissed at the effect that this kind of thing will have on your kids.

Without picking apart your words detail for detail, you seem to think you 'know' an awful lot about whats good for kids and what is not.

While you may or may not be right, I'll share something with you that I 'know'.
I am the mother of a 15 yr old son, and I can tell you, without a doubt, that if your kid is more influenced by some inane crap he sees for a few moments on TV than he is by YOU and what YOU teach him, then the fault certainly does not lie with the people who decide to put that stuff on the air, or the people who defend their right to do it.
YOU have to be responsible for not only what your children see on TV, but also how they percieve the stuff they see that you will never be able to control.
In short, its YOUR job, not the job of some TV executive.

If it bothers you that much, change the channel.

-chef-

[seabeyond]

137. if you have read everyone of my posts

no i am not concerned about my kids. because as you suggest if i am a parent they will figure it out for themselves

there are a lot of kids out there though, that dont have parents, being parents and giving them this stuff to do and is hard and a challenge for them

but that is ok, not mine to do is it.

my kids will be ok. i am not worried about mine

[Blue Wally]

111. A truth

Back in the sixties, a woman once said that the pill and the "sexual revolution" didn't make women more equal, just more available.

[ArtVandaley]

146. Watchers?

I'm a diehard football fan myself and I would had my fingernails pulled out with hot irons before voting for Bush.

Let me refer you to a few columns by espn.com sports reporter Hunter S. Thompson, who is one of the most diehard football fans and one of the biggest left-wing nutjobs in the country.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/_/id/6562575?pageid=rs.Politics&pageregion=single6&rnd=1100805724088&has-player=true

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=thompson/041109

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=thompson/040727

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/archive?columnist=hunter_s._thompson&root=page2



Any Hunter fans out there? I love his writing style. For all the Halloween parties on campus this year I went as Raoul Duke. It was quite funny.

[Bleacher Creature]

10. Why is this important??

There have been countless posts on this "issue" and more than a number of stories in the newspaper, on tv, etc. Frankly--I don't give a rat's ass about this. I don't care if it was tacky, inappropriate or both.

I care that there are 1200+ American soldiers killed in Iraq and probably more than 100,000 innocent civilians.

I care that our dollar is headed for oblivion and that recent economic reports are showing the first signs of inflation in YEARS.

I care that our civil liberties are shrinking every day.

I watched MNF - and if this really "hurts us", then we are officially the lamest fucking country on the face of the planet.

[Gato Moteado]

11. the violence of football seems worse than that.

22 guys swearing and beating the crap outta each other just to get a ball over a line.

i didn't see the game so i missed the intro. doesn't sound any worse than what's on tv already.

[lukasahero]

12. How does this hurt dems?

Seriously, I don't know anything about the situation. I can say that I'm pretty tired of women being used as sexual objects to sell their "manly" games and in general, I would think that a great number of dems agree with me. (Although I know I'm gonna get reamed for saying that by the folks here who think women should just get used to the fact that men think they're hot and like to say so.)

Are you/they suggesting that the dems have something to do with the ads on MNF? Why is that our fault? Who owns ABC? Isn't it Viacom or some corp like them?

[ret5hd]

18. i think what the OP is saying is...

why don't we jump up and down decrying the decline in our moral standards, how evil the bare flesh of the human body is, because by god the democrats just need to be on the conservative side, dammit!

[lukasahero]

32. Oh. Thanks, I think

Sorry but I can't get all bent out of shape about this one particular instance. I think sexism needs to be addressed but I cannot get on board with the outrage over the supposed immorality of this.

Dead Iraqi children or a football player and a half naked lady getting ready to get it on? Not much of a challenge as to where my outrage lies...

[ret5hd]

40. but don't you understand...

9/11 changed everything! jeebus is now a psychotic killer that hates the bare sight of his creation...killing=ok, bare skin=rage.

[lukasahero]

43. I don't think that's really what's being said here

if you read the posts of the people who are upset about it. Agreed, I am not freaking out about it but I don't have kids and I understand the objections of the people here who do.

Their objections aren't about nakedness and sex. It's about what we are teaching our kids about sexuality. To me it's like the people who voted on "moral value issues". Well that's a stupid thing to say because I voted on moral value issues too - I believe shrub is morally bankrupt and that intolerance and hatred are immoral. So just because some people here agree that there's a problem with the ad, it doesn't mean they're just like the fundies and afraid of or disgusted by sex. It means they want their children to have a different view of sex than what is presented in a beer commercial.

Can they change the channel? Sure - I do. But I don't see why they should be ridiculed for writing their congresspeople if they want to. Last I checked it was still a free country and people are free to choose and fight for the issues that concern them.

[wug37]

49. That is brilliant

The best summary of what the problems/concerns people have that I have seen related to this topic. Nicely done.

[mrgorth]

19. No

I'm saying that it will be used against us because we're painted as the "Hollywood" party. I'm not saying dems had anything to do with it or that the pugs will ever stop it. I also agree with the other poster on the beer ads. I just think that putting it in the intro was in very bad taste and unless dems come out against us the heatseekers look for us.

[obreaslan]

26. I would say that the GOP supporting Disney corporation...

That aired the thing should be the ones to take the heat, not the Democratic Party.

[DrWeird]

13. WON'T SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN??!!!

[seabeyond]

22. people dont, i dont get it

there was a coors commercial so bad, soft porn for any unprepared parent, on a saturday and sunday afternoon football game. this is nothing to do with repug or dem. it is called parenting

[DrWeird]

25. Parenting?

Sticking your kids in front of the TV? Then demanding TV stations do your parenting for you?

[seabeyond]

31. ya dr wierd cause you really know what goes on tin this home

my 4th grader is 9th grade reading. you want to question me on whether i put the time into my kids. or do you suggest husband shouldnt come home monday night and turn on football game. after working and prviding for us so well. or maybe he should lock his door when watching football game, because promoters cant be held responsible who may see it

[DrWeird]

33. Well if he's a 9th grade reader...

than he'd be mature enough to see a woman's bare back. God forbid he should go to a museum and see all the naked painted ladies.

At the very least, I am mature enough to see a woman's bare back on the television. And I shouldn't have to watch some Taliban-censored television because of your turn-of-the-century pseudomorals made you too lazy to supervise your own kids and therefore had to decide what I can and can't watch.

[seabeyond]

35. dr weird, it is not the bare back

it is not tits, it is not the naked body. we are not prudes. we are not conservative fundies. we dont hide our body, never have. nakedness in purity is grand. sex is grand. giving it to a child too young isnt grand. i didnt see that shot so i cant tell you were my sons would be bothered with the picture. i can tell you were they were bothered at 4 and 6 watching a woman having an orgasm in the shower. i saw the janet thing, i can tell you where i would be bothered in what they were being taught in that action. i can tell you were i am bothered in the coors commercial

you get past deciding it is a shielding of sex, or nakedness or prude behavior. this isnt what it is about. it is about the connotaions going with the action

i pull kids in to see pictures of the naked protestors, those that get naked to make the peace signs. that is giving them nakedness in expression and health. to have a sophisticated sexual perception at 7 or 9 is not healthy, in my book of paretning. lots of kids have it. i am not fond of it. but others parents to do. but it is not a place my kids even want to be

[lukasahero]

39. I get you

and understand what you're saying - it's not about nakedness or sex, it's about what it says about women and what it says about sex.

That's the problem, though - the fundies don't give a rat's ass about that stuff. They see sex itself as dirty and bad and something we need shelter from. We need to change the conversation. I don't know how exactly we do that but your posts are a big start.

BTW, this - "what they were being taught in that action" - is the most important line in the debate. I understand your "discomfort" wasn't in your children seeing a breast. It was the whole damn stalker quality of the routine that ended with Timberlake ripping Jackson's clothes off thereby exposing her breast while singing "I'll have you naked by the end of this song". I'm not sure why that point is so hard to understand.

[seabeyond]

51. i appreciate

when our 12 year old girls think they are suppose to give a line of little boys blow jobs, there is a problem with what we are giving our kids. when we are telling our children at 10 they are suppose to be dating and sexually active, and suppose to not listen to parent, we are doing something wrong.

and you are right on what the issue with the jackson to do, and everyone took it to the retarded, a tit big deal. right, a boob big deal, that wasnt the big deal.

it is my job as a parent to address these things with kids, and the adults that feed it to them. people dont want to see it because it doesnt fit in agenda. when i was in twenties and no kids, i didnt care either. i would be saying, dont let your kids watch.

well...........look at our kids today.

look at why so many middle aged people voted against kerry and spouted family values

look how i was attacked cause i wasnt going to say, ya a bare back, you are right not a big deal. that wasnt the point the bare back. these are big deals to parents. and if we say no to these things, understanding there are people out there working their ass off to raise children, and we help them, and reinforce we are on their side and see their plight, then maybe we can get their vote

example. went to convenient store, and a pill that makes you hot and there is a girl, short shorts, huge tits out to open space, no waist caracture,............my 12 year old niece standing next to me. i am buying something, look at this and say, shit,.....lets give up, lets just not even try anymore, lets just let all the girls be a slut and quit fighting this battle.

what the guys want. seems to be what the men want to

[GumboYaYa]

48. Your point is well taken.

While I think the current outrage from teh right over theMNF commercial is disguised racism, there is no question taht there are abundant sexually explicit commercials on TV. Hell, even shampoo commercials show sex in the shower these days. That lady on the bull eating a hamburger is the most suggestive commercial out there.

The bottom line is that if you want to shield your kids from sexually suggestive commercials you have to turn off the TV, not just Monday Night Football.

[seabeyond]

my kids watch kid channels

a couple years ago they did have the woman in the shower, and the man at the mirror spitting out his mouthwash. was animal planet. i was doing laundry, they were watching a kid show. i couldnt make it to the remote to turn, and they are just glued to it. that was wrong having that on, and kids both looked at me in questions. shrug, silly girl. but no, that shouldnt be on that channel. i would say 70 percent of kid tv is not allowed in this house either. if all about anger or stupid, we dont watch.

but i dont think we give up on it. because i think we support the parent doing a job. the adults that want that programming there is more than enough access they wont be deprived, nor do i desire to deprive. but what if we backed and understood the parent with the child.

it would benefit all of us, to give healthy in this to our kids, and not adult retarded to them.

we can go after the republicans for this. i so wanted coors to be attacked during the race. so many women are mad at coors, i talk to these mothers. one mother took her husband off football because of it. if we had gone after coors or do it now, we can use to our political advantage. they talk morals, they ran this man on family values and supported him for his christianity. he took commercials off while he ran. he lost. he put commercials back on.

this is where we attack. when republicans get serious about family values, then maybe we will listen. they have to go after those doing the commercial to sell their product and out of greed use sex to sell product even to child. this is their people doing this. forget janet, forget this other occurance, we could use it to go after their base

and parents will see a party concerned for their kids.

[Kipepeo]

53. I get you too

I don't care about the nudity.

But I do care about the sexual aggression against women that I see played out on tv more and more often. I didn't see this football thing, but I saw the Janet nipple-crisis and what bothered me about it was the faux sexual violence that it portrayed. Guy rips girl's shirt off and she pretends to be mortified...blah blah, it seems to be everywhere. I am so sick of 'male = sexual predator, female = sexual object & entertainment' crap that I see on tv.

[seabeyond]

55. exactly................

and this is what we are teaching our littlest of boys and this is what our girls are going to htink they are suppose to be. not good for anyone. and it is getting worse. now we have both sides, the religious pinning us to be virgin mary and the sinner eve, and the left making us the whore

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. How Can Parents Prevent Their Kids From Watching Something They Weren't

Expecting...


They expected to see a football game not a scene filled with sexual innuendo...


In the privacy of your home you should be able to fuck who you want, smoke what you want, and watch what you want but the public owns the airwaves and should not have to censor Monday Night Football...

[DrWeird]

58. Well, you can turn off the TV.

Because if you can't expect to watch football without seeing sexual innuendo. That's the way it's always been.



Turn on Nickolodeon. Or go back to Afghanistan.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

60. "Or Got Back To Afghanistan"

I made my position clear....

I am a libertarian but I distinguish between self directed act and other directed acts....

As John Stuart Mill said "over his body and mind the individual is sovereign"...


That being said that skit was inappropriate....


If you want to sit in your bedroom smoking a joint and jerking off as you watch Jessica Simpson fellating Lassie that's your right but when you put suggestive scenes on tv without warning that's offensive to me... The public owns the airwaves and what is appropriate to you might be inappropriate to your neighbor....

[DrWeird]

63. Yes, women's bare backs are as obscene as bestiality.

If you're offended by seeing a white woman's bare back being embraced black man, than Afghanistan's the right place for you.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. More Strawmen.... It Would Be More Honest To Say You Have No Response...

John Stuart Mill , the author of On Liberty, distinguished between self directed and other directed acts...

It's like jerking off... It's appropriate in your bedroom but not in a public library... If you don't see the difference remind me not to sit in front of you..

[DrWeird]

72. Strawman?

You mean like comparing a woman's back to bestiality?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

76. Reading Is Fundamental...

The point I made is that there is a distinction between the private realm and the public square...


You or me can beat off to Jessica Simpson fellating Lassie in the privacy of our bedrooms but our right to engage in that behavior is relegated to the four corners of our private domains....

It's nobody's business...

But if you or I open all the blinds and engage in that said behavior then we are taking our behavior from the private realm to the public square....

In the scheme of things the skit was hardly groundbreaking but I can empathize with the folks who took offense...

[DrWeird]

79. Writing is fundamental.

You compared the skit with bestiality. "keep that kind of thing confined to your bedroom, like bestiality."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

83. when you are in a hole stop digging...

you put something in quotes...


I defy you to find where I said that...

Use the copy and paste function...


Anybody who reads my post can see it's an argument for absolute freedom in the private sphere.... Nothing more.... Nothing less...

[DrWeird]

85. Maybe you should take your own advise.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=paraphrase

It's up there for everybody to see. Maybe you should stop pretending you said it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

93. Here's My Post...

Where did I conflate a faux Harlequin love scene with bestiality?60. "Or Got Back To Afghanistan"


I made my position clear....

I am a libertarian but I distinguish between self directed act and other directed acts....

As John Stuart Mill said "over his body and mind the individual is sovereign"...


That being said that skit was inappropriate....


If you want to sit in your bedroom smoking a joint and jerking off as you watch Jessica Simpson fellating Lassie that's your right but when you put suggestive scenes on tv without warning that's offensive to me... The public owns the airwaves and what is appropriate to you might be inappropriate to your neighbor....

[seabeyond]

67. ah but see even though people say this isnt the issue

you continue to ignore. so you dont have to think. whatevah

the whole jackson thing people kept syaing wasnt the tit that was offensive was the dance and the stalking and the ripping off clothes and the fiend modesty that was offensive. yet you continually point finger at all saying, you prude, if a tit offends you go back to afghanistan. how serious do you want to be taken

[seabeyond]

68. beginning of time teenagers exploring the new world of sex

and they are so awestruck by the whole thing that they want to show it off. like they are the first to recognize or experience. and they want everyone to watch them explore, oh so impressed with themselves.

well hey, do your exploring, that is yours to do. i dont need to experience it with you, i have my own. not impressed with yours, way impressed with mine. that is what counts. and it isnt for my little kids to experience with you either.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

70. He Lacks The Ability To Reason...

I told him ad infinitum and ad nauseum I am a civil libertarian but I distinguish between the public square and the private realm...


He chooses to ignore it and knock down strawmen...


It' the old saw about you right to swing your fist ends at my jaw...


And I could care less if T O was white, black, aborigine, or some combination thereof...

[seabeyond]

71. you right to swing your fist ends at my jaw...

yes

[DrWeird]

75. Maybe I lack the ability to reason.

But I'm not the one getting my panties in a bunch over seeing a breast on television.

Oh, goodness gracious! What is the world coming too?!

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

82. my panties in a bunch over seeing a breast

regardless of how many times people tell you the breat isnt the issue, you continually go back to making that my issue. so i ask you, what is the difference between talking to you and rush

[DrWeird]

84. Rush gets upset over seeing breasts.

Like most sexist, pruddish republicans.

[seabeyond]

88. he also tells people what they think and then dismiss them

without much thought or contemplation

[DrWeird]

89. That's true.

And some people are prudes, but like to pretend they aren't.

[seabeyond]

91. and some people are reasoned with a valid point

it is your job to listen. not to just go to the easy, paint everyone with one brush

[DrWeird]

74. People can deny it all they want.

IMHO, they're full of shit.

Getting upset over a breast and then saying you're not a prude, is like saying something racist then saying "but I have lots of black friends."

It was the breast that offended these people. It was the white woman in the black man's arms that offended these people. If it wasn't they'd already be upset about beer commercials, and cheerleaders, and killing civilians in Fallujah. They are prudes, they are racists, and they're basically the same uber-conservative, puritanical nutjobs that ran Afghanistan. Oh my! A sexual, exposed woman! That's pornography!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

78. Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right And Four Certainly Doesn't...

If it's consolation I do believe kids watching two people fuck each other is infinitely less harmful than seeing a marine shoot an unarmed man...

[DrWeird]

80. Really?

You sure seem awful upset about the news.

:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

87. what news....

The marine who shot the unarmed guy has brought dishonor to his country and unit.


What am I supposed to do....

[DrWeird]

90. It's on the TV, you know.

nt

[seabeyond]

86. well dude two years ago when i saw that coors commercial

i started an email campaign to the company and my husband stopped drinking their product. i have been talking about it, but keep being dismissed that it is all about me being a prude, not what is ok for our children. so as long as you continue to tell people what they think, instead of listening, not much reason to go any further in conversation. but is good of you to tell me, what i think, even though clearly and honestly i have told you exact opposite.

allows you to stay in your really comfortable place, without questioning

[DrWeird]

92. Hmmm.

But here you are deciding what people can and can't watch on TV. Instead of just flipping the channel on your own remote. Sounds a bit hypocritical to me.

[seabeyond]

95. saturday afternoon my husband is watching football

my children walk in to chat with their father. a coors commercial comes on that isnt appropriate for any child. so we make a to do and scramble for the remote in hopes of turning it off in time, we draw their attention away from tv in conversation, we pretend they really arent watching, or we give up our tv

yes, we do have a responsibility to our children. as much as non parents dont like that their behavior is reflected in the children we raise it is true. sorry these babies are so cumbersome for this society today

and we wonder why they are all fucked up

[DemocratSinceBirth]

96. You Have A Point

Parents are responsible for what their children watch on tv but the skit in question came with no warning....


For instance if you turn on Howard Stern on your car and you hear something that embarasses you in front of your children you have no one to blame but yourself because you knew what you were listening to but if you are just listening to the radio and some guy starts talking about the third input on a female then the problem is with the broadcaster....

[Goldmund]

120. Amen brotha.

[seabeyond]

124. what are ya, 17? n/t twenty. ?

ya man, f* em. what a dude

[Goldmund]

125. I'm 11. I like boobies.

[seabeyond]

126. big thumbs up to boobies

i have a couple i like them too

[Goldmund]

129. I don't have any but I want some

Maybe I can have one of yours, and I'll give you my XBox? I have HALO 2!

[w4rma]

17. Um. Michael Eisner, Disney's CEO, is no Democrat.

Why would he want to do anything at all that doesn't hurt Dems or help Repugs?

[eataTREE]

24. Because I could care less about this.

Sorry, the prospect either of my children seeing a 'provocative' shot of a naked woman jumping into a man's arms really doesn't bother me. I didn't see the spot in question, but frankly it sounds much more innocuous than a whole bunch of other stuff that gets regularly shown on broadcast TV. If you object, call your local ABC affilliate and complain, but don't expect those of us who are not cultural conservatives to jump on the cultural conservative bandwagon.

[obreaslan]

27. A voice of reason.

Thank you. :yourock:

[mrgorth]

28. Let me try and rephrase this

I didn't like the spot. However, I can deal with it. When I think of what is going on in Iraq right now, there's no comparison. My point is that whenever "Hollywood" jumps the line like that the fundies and the pugs scream and people run to them for shelter and we get the blame for somehow "allowing" it. I'm just saying it'd be nice if one of ours addressed it even if by saying that ABC should've been more responsible.

[sangh0]

45. Plus, why do so many DUers DEFEND CORPORATE ADS?

I thought corporations were responsible for much of the terrible things going on in the world today, right?

So why do we want to protect their ability to use women and children for profits? Is seeing the hint of sexist sexuality an ad provides really that important?

[WCGreen]

29. The outcry is about race.....

It always is...
Janet Jackson gets vilified and Justin Timberlake walks away like the clueless goon he is...

If that would have been a white girl jumping into the arms of a white man......

Just like the twins....

Come on people.... This is a country that still, although great strides have been made, racist...

Just look at what the Republicans promote....

And why are they winning so much in the South...

Come on people, The Dem's use to be the party of racism and now that we embraces the liberal idea of civil rights for all, the south has turned 180 degrees to the republicans.....

[fishwax]

77. Race has a lot to do with it

It's hard to believe otherwise. As others have said, if it were Vinny Testaverde and Niccolette Sheridan, it's probably not such a big outcry.

Of course, the fundies hate the show that was being promoted too, and have tried to organize boycotts against it. They don't like it not because of a whole ton of sex, I imagine, but because it shows women dissatisfied with the role of housewife and shows some of them making assertive choices about sex.

They don't only hate the sex, they hate the message buried therein.

[Generator]

34. Don't even think of touching my porn or

I'm never voting Dem again. What kinda party is this?


Or in other words, this puritanical kill every last Arab standing, let the soldiers die but take time to obsess about SEX SEX SEX country is a fucking joke.

Canada looks greener every day. I can't even enjoy my jokes anymore.

[THUNDER HANDS]

36. Frankly, I Don't Care About You, Your Kids, Your Grandmother

Your hampster or anyone else who was offended.

You don't like it, change the fucking channel and shut the fuck up.

Let the people who like to use their brains make the decision for themselves.

God I hate this country.

BTW, I'm 25-hours gone without a cigarette. Expect more of my happy attitude for a while.

[seabeyond]

37. i dont igve a shit about your fuckin porn

jack off in front of your computer every night. shit two three times a day, just not a deal to me

but to not care about what we feed our childrens brains, and how we present their sexual role, one they will have a lifetime, that will determine if they are happy or not. i mean, really the essence of who the democrat is. isnt that why they dictate to me to keep a seat belt on my kid, dont smoke around a child, dont even let them see you with a cig. oh, any gun is a loaded gun, even a non loaded gun

so do all you political democratic hype on how all are suppose to protect these kids at all cost, but man, miss with your porn, stop from degrading women, and we have gone too far.

[blackangrydem]

41. It's that old OJ and Nicole bad feeling cropping up again...

[neverforget]

42. When women are taken out of the workplace and put back into

the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, then maybe the Right will be satisfied. But I doubt it.

[leesa]

46. And why not point out that it is the holy conservatives who

churn out this stuff?? If Fundies have a problem with it, they need to be reminded that it is their conservative rich boys who put this on their teevees.

[sangh0]

112. Some liberals also turn out this "stuff",

and some liberals also have a problem with it.

[GumboYaYa]

47. Give me a break. This is about racism and not sex.

How many time a game does the camera pan the cheerleaders on the sideline. Virtually every cheer they use is a sexually suggestive dance. Their uniforms show more skin than was shown in the commercial in question. If we were truly outraged about sexually suggestive content in football games, people would be screaming to get rid of the cheereleaders. Has anyone made that suggestion today?

This is outrage is about the fact that the commercial suggested a beautiful white woman getting laid by a big black virile stud. It is too much for the red staters to handle.

The Janet Jackson affair is the perfect example to show why this is blatant racism in the MNF case. Everyone was outraged by Janet showing some boob, but no one expressed any outrage over the fact that for ten minutes before the boob slip, Timberlake and Jackson acted out a scene so sexually suggestive that it looked like he was ass f$%&ing her right there on stage. If there was anything offensive about that show it was the ass F&%*ing act. But a commercial with even the suggestion that a black man might have sex with a white woman is outrageous. Come on the ony part of her body shown naked was the back so it is clearly not an issue of nudity.

Why is simulated sex with a white man and black woman no problem, but simulated sex between a black man and white woman outrageous?

[Tomee450]

64. I couldn't agree with you more.

It's all about race. Had this been two whites or two blacks, nothing would have been said. There is still a lot of racism in this country, particularly in the south. That's why so many southeners vote Republican. They consider that party to be anti-black and pro white. This is all about race but some people will not admit that.

[fishwax]

81. Great point

about how the white man/black woman sex was okay, but the black man/white woman sex wasn't.

[IndianaGreen]

52. There may be an undercurrent of racism in the complaints

What if the woman had not been white? What if the athlete had been white like the woman? Would we have heard the same intensity of complaints?

Since most fundies are racist and intolerant, perhaps is the fact that they showed a white woman with a BLACK MAN that is the real reason they are upset.

[Voltaire]

59. You got it Sister

I didn't think much about the commercial. Being an Eagle fan, I was more interested in the game. Reading all your comments and seeing the commercial again made me realize CLEARLY (by way of disclaimer, I am a black man) that its a race thing. Think of it. What was shown was a racists WORST NIGHTMARE...right there on the Tee Vee.

Trust me on this one...if they were the same color we wouldn't be talking about it.

[IndianaGreen]

99. Biracial military families face racism in the Deep South

from the same people that wave flags and attend "support the troops" rallies. Racism is as prevalent today as it was in 1776.

[Forkboy]

61. That's my take too

Nothing pisses off the chuckleheads faster than a black dude stealing their women!

[kwolf68]

57. C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M

Companies should be allowed freedom....whether they are polluting our air, rapping the rain forest, or showing sexual innuendo.

I think Conservatives are more pissed that it was a white women jumping into TO's arms.

[chyjo]

103. Oh sweet Jesus

The commercial was no worse than seeing the cheerleading squad. But yes, becoming the party of censorship is very appealing to me. Oh wait, actually now that I think about it, it isn't.

[IronLionZion]

105. I'm just glad the Eagles won

Walt Disney must be rolling in his grave, but there's plenty of t + a surrounding football. no surprise here

[Angelique]

109. I'm with you.. can't we agree that there should be some self control..

I had my sister's young kids spending the night and we always watch football and eat popcorn.. I was really embarrassed when I walked in the room with the snacks and saw those kids watching that garbage. I'm sorry, IMHO, that venue is out of bounds for that much adult stuff.

[newportdadde]

113. BS double standards.

It didn't bother me to much although my son is under a year so he doesn't even care yet. What does bother me is the hypocrisy of ABC. My local affiliate in KC won't show Saving Private Ryan because they drop the F-bomb and people... *gasp* get hurt and die in a war. But they are okay with X slut basically saying "Stud come take a hit on this."

I don't like the double standards.

[seabeyond]

119. and when your son is 6

are you going to see it from your same adult eye, or the 6 year old eye

mine are just 7 and 9. i am seeing it thru their eyes. it isnt so pretty. here ya. clear up to three/four, not bothered. just cause i have an older i have been looking at the picture differently the last 5 years. lots of lessons

[MadHound]

114. Don't buy this BS, this isn't about soft porn intro, or protecting the kid

This is about race in a racist society.

Look, we've all seen more provacitive things on TV, and more skin on TV, than what went on here. Hell, turn the clock back one hour on that night, and you've got Fear Factor, featuring skimpier clad models showing more skin that ABC ever thought about. The dropping towel shot, showing the nude back, is a staple that dates back to the late seventies, early eighties on shows such as Dallas or Knots Landing. Hell, the Dallas cheerleaders show more actual T&A out on the field, and on TV, than this intro did. Sex, skin, and provacative images is NOT the issue here, race is.

I guarantee you that if the player in the intro had been white, or the woman in the towel black, there would have been no uproar at all. But since it involved a biracial couple, showing a white woman desirous of a black man, it pushed all sorts of racial loathing/insecurity/inadequacy buttons in our racist society. Remember friend, if this had occured fifty years ago, Terrel Owens would have been shot dead on the field when he came out(especially in Dallas, and most other southern team locations). But that came to be considered too over the top a response, especially since one would now risk jail time doing such a thing(fifty years ago, you wouldn't have been risking hardly a thing). And since up front, in your face racism has become frowned upon, it has gone underground, masking itself in the guise of "morals" and "cultural wars", etc. Thus, while the motivation for many people protesting this is the racial issues, these people have gotten more clever and are disguising it under the rubrik of "morality" Morality my ass, the target audience for MNF is male, 18-45, working class, etc. Just same target audience as soft porn mags such as Maxim. The target audience loves this kind of T&A show. So what is the difference between Maxim and this intro? It shows a white woman throwing herself nude at a black man. It is the racists' ultimate nightmare, so they respond with a vengance. It is just that they have become sophisticated enough to disguise their true motivations with the cloak of "morality" Don't buy this dog and pony show friend, for it simply masks their real motivating factor, stark, naked bigotry.

[seabeyond]

121. maybe the dems can be ever more of an example

and say this isnt about race like the fundies would like to create. bigotry once again. because of the hypocrisy we see in this issue with them. what the democrats say, on moral value is this shouldnt be on. along with the coors commercial. companies should have a responsibility in airing their product, and there should be times, say 9 pm, that they can promotes certain things. there should be a public airwaves with responsibility and then there is cable. and this is the moral value we the democrats would like to give the nation, to help the parents and to have a kid friendly public airwaves across nation

i dont know. i like it, i would buy it, i wouldnt be infringing on any adult rights, they can get there shit all over the place

maybe a space we can clear for kids

i mean really is this too hard for us. cause then lets just give it up. whatever goes.

anyway, i have said enough on this. i am done. not an issue in my house, i take care of my kids. and they have yet to see any of the shit cause i dont have it on, or when they do we deal with it. just put the effort in to share.

[oldcoot]

115. This might help Democrats

I was listening to a local "radio personality" on a classic rock station giving a short speech about why the "losers" who are offended by a bare back should "get a life." During this mini-speech, I wondered who this gentlemen (some of our "radio personalities" praised Bush during his first term)voted for during the election. I also wondered how many football fans voted for Bush and how they would react to the possibility of the federal government messing with their sport. We may be able to tap into this resentment during the 2006 elections.

[Angelique]

117. "This might help Democrats"?????? We are doomed fir sir..

This is exactly what the Rightwing wants us to think.. It was stupid to shock a family audience with that ad.. It was Football for heaven sakes, millions of kids play football in school from the 4th grade up, and watch the game with their friends, siblings, dad and mom.

My older kids did and the youngsters still do, we watch this kind of program when the kids are in bed, or out of the room. It is the way we choose to raise our kids, and don't want to be shocked and overruled by an enlightened program director.

Geeze, how can anyone spin this into a win.. don't you get it? This is a perfect example of what these hypocrites are talking about.. Sorry this one isn't close, it's stupid.

[seabeyond]

122. i think so too, but go figure, just a mom...........

Sorry this one isn't close, it's stupid

[oldcoot]

142. Censorship vs. Permissiveness

The Republicans control both houses, the executive, and judicial branches. How they handle this controversy and other similar controversies may come back to haunt them. If they are too zealous in prosecuting every little infraction such as this skit, Americans might become increasingly concerned about censorship and they could lose votes in 2006. However, if they show restraint and television shows become more sexually explicit, they risk alienating the Christian Right. Religious conservatives will feel that the Republicans are all talk and might stay home for the next election.

[oldcoot]

133. I use to live in "Bronco" country

I am use to seeing rabid sports fans in action. When the Broncos were suffering from a string of humiliating Super Bowl defeats, fans would behave very strangely. Criticizing the Broncos was one way to get punched. Some would become extremely depressed. I remember thinking, "it is only a football game."

In order to win elections the Democrats need to face the reality that many people do not care about politics unless it effects them directly. For example, it amazes how many pro-life voters are willing to support stem-celled research because they had loved one who might benefit from this research.

We also need to deal with the unfortunate reality that too many people care more about entertainment than world events. Remember how many people got upset after CBS cut into "CSI: NY" to report Arafat's death? I also suspect that more people probably watch football and "Desperate Housewives" then watched the presidential debates. For better or worse, the Republicans have total responsibility in determining what can or cannot be aired. They may learn first hand the dangers of interfering with people's entertainment.

[Goldmund]

118. I don't think you had to shield your kids from it.

That's an arbitrary convention. I doubt your kids would have grown horns after seeing that.

[seabeyond]

123. then you can be thrilled to know they arent being shielded

they are unadated with it. everywhere they turn it is everywhere. dont worry, kids are fed this, geez everywhere, 24/7. there is no way any parent is going to, today, be able to even kinda shield the kid. the best we can do is stay on our toes every friggin second, so as they are thrown our kids way we can say, ok...........this is adult stuff, so,........

lets stop what we are doing, talk it out, so it can go in its place

feel better. no kid is shielded

[Goldmund]

127. As I said,

I think it's a totally arbitrary convention to think that exposure to sex is "adult stuff". Since I see you're getting pretty defensive, I just want to make it clear that I'm not attacking you and I'm sure you're a great parent. But if I ever have kids, I will make sure they grow up without any stigma about sex -- rather than making sure they "categorize" sex in the "correct" mental drawer.

[seabeyond]

128. without any stigma about sex

that is all i want to. and i do have kids, now that i am raising. not a thought to what i would do, but an actual what i am having to do. now, look what we are being fed. and you suggesting it isnt filled with stigma.....what is that anyway

maybe defensive, maybe just damn clear on how i feel about it. tamato......tamoto

[Goldmund]

132. Oh, I totally agree that it's already filled with stigma

And furthermore, this whole sexual iconography is _dependent_ upon the stigma. Were there no stigma, that commercial would have absolutely no effect. It would be like showing somebody eating a ham sandwich.

But to me, that stigma is a negative part of our culture. I would want my kids both to get to know the culture they're growing up in -- the stigmas included -- and to be able to reject the stigmas for themselves; to me, adding the element of forbidden mistery to cheap fratboy sexual imagery, such as displayed in that commercial, amounts to enabling the stigma.

[seabeyond]

136. children are getting enough, is what i am saying

we are all tired. so when we talk about it, we may look at the tired parent of always walking their children through this. have a little compassion. we are doing this on all fronts. then, my kids have all the fundie stuff they are dealing with. they go to a fundie school. they have been the ones seeing the anger and ugliness of christianity and having to keep in in grace and love

we are literally asking our kids to figure out life at 5

[Goldmund]

140. The fundie stuff I can see

But sex? Why is sex even a "front"? I don't see any more reason to have to "explain" sexual imagery to them than I do to have to explain, I dunno, sports imagery, or musical imagery, or anything else. "Sex" is assumed to intrinsically hold this special "adult" place in our culture; all I'm saying is that I don't see this as intrinsic, but as arbitrary.

Well, at least arbitrary by nature; not historically arbitrary. It's a remnant from the millenia of sexual prejudices that our civilization has gone through.

Out of curiosity, how come you sent your kids to a fundie school?

[seabeyond]

143. because about every way it is presented in u.s. the women dont

come out very good. almost never. it is always dominately a male having poewr over a woman.

if it were merely nakedness, or sex. but that isnt u.s. comsumption

there is nothing wrong or needing explanation in bible or jesus, but with the christian today, we have to go to the abuse in what they are presenting in christ name

the same with porno, it is not the nakedness, or sex, yes at four kids are already figuring it out, just as they are connected to spirit and know lite and darkness, equally this is innate in my book.

what the outside world feeds them, and whether they buy into it, it what creates the boxes for ourselves.

either side. i am working both sides here. amazing similarities. but that is what polarity brings.

[formernaderite]

130. Why is Sheridan an aging over the hill ex-hottie democrat?

I actually felt embarassed for the woman, that said she was a truly spectacular young woman once.

[mtnsnake]

131. Desperate Housewives ratings SOAR, but not a whisper about vote fraud

Unreal how the fundies and bigots can get the entire media riled up over this, yet there is no one interested in talking about voter fraud or what's really going on in Iraq.

[seabeyond]

134. lol and the a really funny, not watching news

i turned it all off before the debates. lol i dont know what the f* yawl are talking as far as this particualr thing. so getting big huh, go figure. i dont know a thing

[LSK]

138. the Europeans are LAUGHING AT US

Get over sexuality already.

Its ok to let 9 year olds to play with wargames all day but a little skin and its the end of the world.

GIVE ME A BREAK

[shuffnew]

139. Offensive?

Well, I live in the central time zone with 3 children who go to bed at 9:30pm weekdays. My children see much worse just having to endure the pharmaceutical ads DAILY. So, you simply have to be the parent to explain away whatever you feel is so offensive. My children are not of the age to have been tuned in to the game anyway - if they had, they would have not been adversely affected by a joke of a falling towel...

I find the advertisements the most abusive... I am sick of Viagra and Cialis ads for instance (but, then Bushies have to cater to those folks, right? Fill their pockets with campaign money & fill their Deibold machines with votes.) There's no way to block these offensive ads from your channels.

So, I would say that you could just block out anything except Disney channel... but, no that won't work either... the far right extremes have objections to Disney's PG-13 movies too such as Hercules and Shriek2.

What to do... I choose not to put my children in a bubble... even if you opt for home schooling, they will eventually have to face the reality of diversity. So, teach them now -- your own way. Don't blame the media if your children go astray. It is a known fact, that many preachers' children (born in a bubble and kept there until they rebel) are more apt to struggle with reality and go the wrong way than children that have been exposed and educated in diversity.

[seabeyond]

144. study out kids in abstinance club earlier sex

than children that arent in the club. something they do in the south anyway. also D>A>R>E project, bet if looked at numbers same would hold true

and psychologically and chemically i could see easily why this would be the case

[shuffnew]

145. DARE & Abstinance Club

Yes, I am familiar with D.A.R.E. Don't know if there are any stats on that one, but you are probably right on your assumptions. And if we teach our children that "abstinance" is the ONLY option in life, we fail them again. There's nothing wrong with suggesting abstinance is the better or preferred choice (eg., you could use deadly disease as aids for examples), but if you don't also educate them on other options and that one option didn't work -- are they more apt to be an aids victim (for instance) because they didn't know (or were taught that contraceptives were NOT a choice) there were other options?

Parents have to take the lead here... don't depend upon TV or your school to do the parenting or un-parenting for you.

Children are going to have exposures if you let them out of the house and need to know how to cope with reality in life. It's best to try to give them a well-rounded education at home as well -- your way.
We can't hold them in a protected bubble forever... when the bubble bursts (and it will, without a doubt) they may have a more difficult time to adjust to reality and not have the tools to help them with decisions that they must make through life w/o parental mandates.

[eriffle]

141. I'm kinda split

I think the FCC decency stuff is ridiculous. I'm of the mind set that you should know what you're in for before you watch it. That's the point of the TV rating system. There are shows on TV that I don't watch because I don't like their content. I know of the content because it is easily known. I like Desparate Housewives, and I like MNF, but I really don't want to the two to mix nor would I want some younger children watching Desparate Housewives. This is my own choice and I think this is the issue. Fundies were angry at the Super Bowl and from Monday night because of the content on it's face. Moderates are upset not necisarily because of the content, but because they weren't aware the content would be there.