DU represents the left wing of the left wing of the Democratic party!

[vet_against_Bush]

I just heard Al Fraken has sold out to the Republicans. Anyone who talks about Reid or Vilsack in a positive way gets hammered for being a closet freeper or selling out. Gez, I thought we were the party of inclusion? Everytime a bit of diversity, like God forbid, being against some late term abortions, a good portion of DU grabs its own fundamentalist-lite scorn. Progressives don't all fit in your box on every damn issue!

[mark414]

1. yeah we are pretty fucking crazy

i am unrealistically radical

at least i realize it though...

*sigh*

[Protagoras]

52. At least we represent SOME wing of the Democratic Party

as opposed to a number of people who are advocating we just cover a republican platform with a democratic bumpersticker.

Perhaps DU represents the remaining Liberal conscience of the Democratic party.

[ShaneGR]

97. Lol, awesome....

I like it.

[Liberal Veteran]

2. No...DU represents a variety of viewpoints.

Some more conservative than others.

Are some more vocal? Yes.

Are we probably a bit more liberal than others? Sure, I'll buy that.

Did you just make a gross generalization about a place you post at and probably insult half the people here? Absolutely.

[vet_against_Bush]

4. "a good portion of DU" isn't a generalization. It may be a minority but

it is at least common. Maybe that was a stretch but please don't nit pick it.

[Liberal Veteran]

20. "DU represents the left wing of the left wing of the Democratic party!"

I don't where I could have possibly gotten the notion you were making a gross generalization.

[vet_against_Bush]

33. Shall we take a survey? politicalcompass.com? nt

[Liberal Veteran]

40. I don't require a survey to pidgeonhole me....

Besides, I've been there and done that.

What I take issue with is your condescending attitude toward the variety of opinions on this board.

What you are saying is that DU represents the lunatic fringe of the democratic party.

Yeah, I am left winger. I make no bones about it. I embrace my liberalism and know for a fact I am more liberal AND less liberal than other people here.

Generally speaking, if you come to a board that generally prides itself on being open to progressives and progressive ideals then you are going to find a majority of progressive rather than conservative democrats.

And you presume to be shocked by that?

What is even more shocking is there are a variety of people on this board from those who believe the party has gone too far to the right to those who think we are in the proper place as a party to those who thing we have gone too far to the left.

Probably more of the former than the latter because the party HAS been steadily moving to right to accomodate the so-called "moderate majority" and yet oddly we are still losing. Are you really shocked that people are starting to come to the conclusion that doing the same thing each time and expecting a different result is questionable?

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

43. He didn't say "Lunatic Fringe"...

...YOU did.

Setting that aside, he's right. And it's nothing to be ashamed of, but it's certainly something we, as Democratic Party members, should be aware of.

In other words...

Harry Reid is NOT Satan!! But you wouldn't know that by looking around here.

[Liberal Veteran]

48. No...he just put it a bit more nicely but meant the same thing.

A rose by any other name.

"the left wing of the left wing of the democratic party" is nothing more than a cheap attempt to marginalize all viewpoints on this board.

So he didn't use the exact wording "lunatic fringe", but that is what was meant.

And after years of having milquetoast democrats in leadership positions trying to reason with people who don't want to be reasoned with, is it any wonder many are looking for someone who will actually stand up and fight the majority in the congress instead of bending over so much?

[usregimechange]

108. Hell, he could be a member of the left left wing. he was just...

making a statement. But judging from your reaction, he was right.

[The Wielding Truth]

113. Since when do the guard dogs run the junk yard??? The people who

care should run this country . We have so many laws to stop power from getting out of our hands and yet we give it away. I want it back. I want government to just make sure we have roads and I don't die of lack of care and I can live my personal life as I choose and don't purposefully do anything that harms someone else.Let's get this administration off our backs.I can run my own life, thank you anyway Cheney,Rumsfeld,and the Yale club.

[MsAnthropy]

3. And I'm left of that so three lefts make me right

[vet_against_Bush]

6. If someone was left of you would you be a sell out? nt

[MsAnthropy]

8. I don't get it

but I'm easily confused

[Placebo]

5. I couldn't agree more.

It seems, now that the post-election faux unity bubble has burst, DU members are showing their true colours.

Although, I hear it was a lot worse during the Primaries.

DU is definitely not representative of the Democratic Party as a whole, that's for sure. DU is far more liberal.

PS: I'm a proud liberal, but I'm just sayin' :P

[RhodaGrits]

7. Yeah, DU members do encompass the left wing of the Dem party for

the most part. So? This forum allows for disagreement. You are welcome to defend your position and let others debate or discuss it. You will find that most dems that treat dissenting opinions with scorn would also defend their right to hold that opinion - unlike other parties which would purge them.

[gordianot]

16. Topsy Turvy world.

Not really sure there is much meaning to the old left and right divide any more. Same goes for radical, liberal, conservative, socialist, nationalist, environmentalist etc..

[Cheswick2.0]

9. people have strong opinions and they state them and argue them

Are you made of jello? You'll live.

[glitch]

10. This is more accurately known as the 'Bite Me' wing - of which I am

a proud member. :evilgrin:

[Cheswick2.0]

71. bite me... kiss my ass...... it all works for me

I am a proud member too.

[LoZoccolo]

11. You will probably never be able to change these tendencies.

The best thing to do, then, is to cope with them when they arise. Hit the button on the out-and-out FReeper accusations (I even do this for other people), and go a little bit harder on the rest.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

38. "besides fair voting"

Oops, you slipped up. Aren't supposed to use that phrase.

Remember, we lost because we're green tea sippin' far left super liberals. Out of the "main stream." Nothing to do with any voting problems.

You've got a script to follow; better stick with it.

[cubsfan forever]

58. Superb riposte!

No, we only represent the 56 M whose votes were counted against Commander FullDiaper. Guess he/she went the TelePrompter for a bit.
:evlgrin:

Professor 2

[Angelique]

69. I am really bummed about the GREEN TEA stuff.. I like green tea.. LOL

I guess I am really a far left, left wing, lefty.. wingnut.. pass the GREEN tea please..

[Angelique]

76. Oh my.. I must be a leftwingnut.. I love GREEN TEA.. the shame

[Cheswick2.0]

82. The green tea's in the harbor

[420inTN]

101. Green tea is great!

Really good for the immune system. I should really drink more of it, and less coffee. *sigh*

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

83. Sorry..but the MAINSTREAM of society happens to be in cities

where people actually live...we of course get our votes cancelled out by the ARMPITS of society where people get more voice for their electoral votes

[Warpy]

13. DINOs like Reid and Vilsack are what they are

However, putting such conservatives at the center of party power is self defeating. The DLC has done nothing but lose elections since they started dragging the party to the right. They got lucky with Clinton. They won't get lucky again, because competent men with charisma are a once in a lifetime phenomenon.

[vet_against_Bush]

18. They got lucky with Clinton twice. nt

[no name no slogan]

87. Lucky is right-- he NEVER got a majority of the vote

If not for Perot, Clinton may not have won in 1992. Even in the 1996 election, he NEVER got a majority of the popular vote.

Democrats overall DECLINED during Clinton's presidency. We lost both houses of congress, more governorships, and more state legislators.

[Walt Starr]

14. Democratic Party Activists tend to be more liberal

The Liberal side of the house is the base, just as the right is the base for the Republicans.

The Republicans have shored up their base while going after the center.

The Democrats piss off their base while pissing off the center.

This is American Politics in the 21st century.

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

94. You just said a mouthful Walt

:toast:

[BansheeDem]

102. Well said ...

"Democratic Party Activists tend to be more liberal ...
The Liberal side of the house is the base, just as the right is the base for the Republicans. The Republicans have shored up their base while going after the center. The Democrats piss off their base while pissing off the center. This is American Politics in the 21st century."

This is what I have been trying to articulate to my fellow DUers. If we insist on staying at the far left of the political spectrum, we will continue to piss off the base and the center at the same time. Better to move slightly to the center, reclaim the base and bring in those Dems and Repubs that are moderate. This is what Clinton did and he was a two term President. What part of that is so hard to understand?

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Walt Starr]

19. I knew as soon as it was a loss, the DLCers would be back

They cannot stand to lose their dwindling power in an increasingly marginalized (by the DLC) Party.

[vet_against_Bush]

23. I am sorry, I fogot to ad DLCer to the list of labels for dissent. nt

[Walt Starr]

31. No, DLC is a label for the Vichy Wing of the Democratic Party

:evilgrin:

[EST]

34. Hey, Walt!

This was a beautiful thread, don't you think? I've read it through several times and admired the wisdom of everybody. Makes me want to hug y'all! (Don't worry, I'll resist the urge)

[vet_against_Bush]

21. Than act like it. nt

[LoZoccolo]

26. You should be more polite to our new guests, ma'am.

:hi: :nuke:

[Mike L]

17. Suppress all Dissent!

[JaneDoughnut]

22. Radical and proud

You're right, I don't think most of what gets posted on DU represents the mainstream of the US or the Dem party. But as a long-time music fan, I've long equated the word mainstream with the lowest common denominator. And those of us who would like to see radical change, some REAL IMPROVEMENT in the world around us, really appreciate a place where we can find like-minded souls, even if we're better at vision than strategy.

[ibegurpard]

24. Let us assume that you are correct

If so then so what? If you don't like it here I'm not sure why you would want to stick around when there are many other choices out there.

[madfloridian]

25. No! Our party is having a contest to see who can stand for less.

It is not about left or right....it is about having resolve, ideals, and standing up for something.

It is about not voting for illegal wars, not dismissing the people who beg you not to vote for it.

It is about not sitting on many millions of dollars instead of supporting recounts to make sure the vote is counted.

[Walt Starr]

28. BINGO!!!

Buth the DLC wants it to be a fight about Right and Left labels so they can stand for less.

I refuse to be a Republicrat or a Democan.

[JohnOneillsMemory]

100. JFK on being a liberal on 9/14/60.

"If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."" JFK 9/14/60

Personally, I'm the type of liberal who believes in the Bill of Rights, Geneva Conventions, Evolution, and the forgiving compassionate nurturing that Jesus is said to have taught.

[riverwalker]

27. Dem's are independent thinkers

which is why we are Dem's. So it's to be expected. Our greatest strength as Dem's is this same diversity of thought. It's not a liability. Hang with us Vet, please. Everyone is kinda testy right now, this is where we can let off the steam. At times it seems the only place :(

[EST]

29. DU is not a "thing."

It is not an entity of itself. We are all here, and, on any given day, a huge variety of different people will be posting and those views are all over the map, as it should be in a liberal meeting place.
If you post an opinion, expect that thought to be talked about, challenged, complimented, whatever. I think anyone ought to be happy to get a little attention, especially critically; that's your chance to defend your views and, maybe, secure a few converts, change a mind, or at least get others thinking-always valuable in a democratic society, such as the one represented by democratic underground!
The essence of liberal thinking must include the fact that liberal is, by definition, incapable of extremism. It is the opposite of extremism of any sort. People, however, may well be liberal, or mostly liberal, and still hold a view on one issue that others may consider extreme. Anyone complaining about the view of someone else's being too "far out there" is simply displaying his own lack of a liberal bent, at least in that area.
Everything's cool; don't sweat it. You, me, they, we are all different from each other in some areas and that's where the real powerfulness of democratic (read-liberal) ideals shows up! Our common enemy is the one view that states that if you don't conform to my way of seeing things, you are simply wrong and you'd better wise up or I'm going to wise you up, no matter the cost to you or me. That's the conservative (read neocon) view. We all, also, have a little bit if conservative lurking in us somewhere, and that is where the fun can be-chase your own ghosts!
:D :toast: :toast: :hi:

[madfloridian]

30. DU represents those who think about issues, free thinkers.

The party no longer does that.

[greenohio]

105. I agree.

[madfloridian]

32. Get the facts on late term abortion....it is to save the woman's life.

There will be no pandering on that issue. Stop talking down to us.
I am about as moderate as you can be, but I am fed up!

[vet_against_Bush]

36. and the "health" of the mother... A little vague.. nt

[madfloridian]

39. See....agree with the other side...you have it down.

:hi:

[Cheswick2.0]

45. cool how they sound so much like the religious right huh?

I guess brain washing even works on democrats.

[Cheswick2.0]

44. tough shit

women have a right to protect their health. Sorry if you don't approve.

[Walt Starr]

47. "Health of the mother" is the standard in Roe for 2nd and 3rd trimesters

Maybe you should read that since you apparently don't support it.

[fujiyama]

35. Reid and Vilsack are decent people

but don't seem to have a real fighting instinct (though I think I saw Reid doin a decent job once).

I think the main problem is that the DLC looks at everything in a very academic sense. It has absolutely no touch with ordinary people. It also hasn't been able to get the party to articulate a clear, alternative message to that of the republicans.

Clinton didn't win because of the DLC. He won because he was a skilled and charismatic politician.

I understand the frustration with some DUers, but I am annoyed that some believe that they can accomplish something by creating or joining a third party. That's just nonsense. If the party isn't united in some sense, fascism will become that much stronger.

[Q]

37. I have an idea: let's continue to sell off bits and pieces...

...of the Democratic party and when we lose...we can sell off a few more pieces. Soon...we'll be so much like the GOP that the people will be confused and accidently vote for us.

- So when will you call us 'purists'? I can hardly wait.

[unfrigginreal]

67. A purist might suggest that adjusting the Party's language is selling out

(or selling off bits & pieces) when in actuality it's an attempt to expand the roles *without* compromising the principles.

I do not agree with the OP, but 'purists' aren't doing us any favors either.

[Q]

73. A clever use of the word 'expand'...

...and of course they're compromising principles. If you CHANGE a principle...it ceases to be a principle.

- Please tell us why it is that when the GOP loses they NEVER abandon their base...but work harder to win them over the next time? Why is it that when Dems lose they think they have to sacrifice their base to please the GOP?

- Many who have traditionally voted Democratic are leaving BECAUSE the party is sacrificing their principles. New voters can't seem to determine where the Dems stand on any particular issue because the leadership keeps changing their principles based on which way the wind is blowing.

- We can't be FOR something like 'choice' and then say we'll compromise in order to win a few votes in the middle. You'll pick up ten votes in the middle and lose a hundred votes on the left. Why is this so difficult to understand?

[unfrigginreal]

86. It's not changing a principle to change the way you market it

It's not abandoning the base by reaching out to others.

Sacrificing principles IS a real problem in the Democratic Party BUT a large part of the fault lies with those that won't allow a for a new approach in the marketing of those principles. It gives us candidates like Herseth that will campaign AGAINST our principles because the language we're using would never be supported in their region. Personally, I find it a hell of a lot more repugnant for Democrats to campaign against our principles than I would for Democrats to adjust the language.

Your use of compromise is the non-starter. I don't advocate compromise.

[ElectroPrincess]

77. I'm no purist but have reached saturation with the gutless wonders

we have for our leaders. I'm a woman and love Nancy Pelosi's personality ... she's excellent for fund raising. HOWEVER, like Daschle she's NOT a fighter. We need Democrats who will fight as hard as their counterparts in the Republican party.

I'm out! When the Democratic party leadership take off their knee pads and tutus I'll return. Don't call me a quitter because up until this point in time, I've been a loyal Democrat (and volunteer!) for almost 25 years.

This is it! This is the last straw. All my respect for Donna Brazille flew out the window when she went on and on and ON praising Karl Rove ... the man is morally corrupt and SHE KNOWS THAT!

We need leaders who will speak the truth. Perhaps the Democratic party will have to be completely destroyed in order to obtain leaders who represent the people.

So be it, not one more penny of my money NOR any more volunteer time at my Local Democratic rallies UNTIL we get national leader who stand for MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS.

[lojasmo]

41. welcome newbie

DU is NOT left wing. Of course, since you're new here, you wouldn't know.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

42. Only an idiot would bash Franken.

An idiot or a disruptor (Green or otherwise).

Yes...This place is WAAAAAAAAAAAY to the left of America as a whole, but it's the base that makes the differences in political parties!! And while I am not nearly as far left as the majority here, I do appreciate their points of view...Makes for good discussion.


Now...The kooks and conspiracy nutters...Well, that's another (Embarrassing) story. ;)

[Cheswick2.0]

46. takes one to know one I guess

:hi:

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

49. Let me guess...You've been bashing Franken?

Why am I NOT surprised?

Now...Go read my post again, then please...Stop trying to pick flame wars with me. You're just not that interesting.

Thanks!

[Cheswick2.0]

53. have I?

nope, just reading your posts since you got here.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

61. Well...I'm glad to have you as a fan.

I guess you've got to find a lot of winners to follow around...Seeing how you're a Green, and not used to winning and all...

[ibegurpard]

64. LOL

Cheswick a Green...I'm sure she'll thank you for providing her with laughter to last for days.

[Forkboy]

65. OMG....Ches a Green?

You're so desperate to paint those you dont agree with as losers you can't tell who is who anymore.

You have NO IDEA how funny your post!! :thumbsup:

[TeacherCreature]

66. You don't know her very well, do you?

Cheswick is one of the most loyal and steadfast Democrats I have ever met on the web.

She is SO loyal in fact that she worked hard every day for the election of Kerry, IN SPITE of the abuse that both she and her candidate suffered at the hands of Kerry operatives and website brownshirts.

HA!!!!!

:crazy:

[Cheswick2.0]

72. is there a clueless song I can sing you ........ROFL

Do you really think you are fooling anyone with that avatar? Clue phone: Many of Dean's supporters are not democrats. They are the very green party members you have just made fun of. I just happen to not be one of them. In fact I think the "two party system" is just fine the way it is. In fact I have voted a straight democratic ticket in every single election since 1976. In 2002 I worked 60 hour weeks for 3 months to get Rendell elected. I did it for free. This time I did it for a month to get Kerry elected but this time I got paid shit wages instead of doing it for free. I don't have any idea where next months rent is coming from and my utilities are about to be turned off because I should have been pursuing a better paying job and chose to do this instead.

You on the other hand can't be labled for what you are because stating the obvious is against the rules here at DU.

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cheswick2.0]

95. I was going to alert on this post but it's too funny

I think I will just let people laugh at you instead.

Okay...where ya going next?

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

99. Alert it.

There's nothing wrong with it. Unless refering to you as "Little Greenie" is against the rules...I suppose it could be?

If not, then...

Don't like it? Stop picking fights...

And get a job.

[TeacherCreature]

103. Why are you so hostile?

Isn't there someone you could insult at home or at school or something?

[greenohio]

114. Busy making friends I see Ches.

Your a master at charm.

[TeacherCreature]

119. ACTUALLY SHE IS VERY CHARMING....

YOU JUST DON'T KNOW HER AS WELL AS I DO....

[greenohio]

120. Gosh I want to.

Every time I try to get close, she just pushes me away.

[TeacherCreature]

121. Try some sweet talk--that always works for me.

Really, she is kinda nice, or so I have found....

[greenohio]

122. I must admit, I have little experience with sweet talk...

but if the opportunity arises...

[TeacherCreature]

123. Oh come on--sweet talk is easy--all you do is dribble some compliments..

You know the drill...works every time for me..but then I am told I am VERY charming (in person)....

[ElectroPrincess]

78. I hold the opposite opinion to you but would advise ...

Ches has taken me on at least a half dozen times ... I've learned the hard way that it's always a good idea to let this person think that they have won ... at least to me, it's not worth the irritation of a no holds barred pissing contest. Just my take to a newbie ;)

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

92. Thank you for the kind words...

...But I don't back down to bullies.

[Forkboy]

51. Yeah,your posts are a model of tolerance to others on the left of you

I do appreciate their points of view... :eyes:

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

62. And I do.

What I don't like are spoiled babies who take their ball home when they don't get their way.

[TreeHuggingLiberal]

88. I'd say the "embarrassing" part

is people like you that feel they have to be condescending to others to get their point across. I find your attitude much, much worse than any "conspiracy nutters" as at least they are searching for the truth with an open mind whereas you sit close minded sneering at all those who question.

[Zorra]

50. Maybe that is because RW trolls are actively infiltrating Democratic

Underground every single day trying to move it to the right (as well as the Democratic Party), and RW corporations have made a long term sustained effort to move the Democratic Party to the right since the inception of the DLC in 1984.

[Silverhair]

59. Maybe they aren't RW trolls.

Maybe they are on the 25Left Yard-line and maybe you are to the left of that. I would say that most of Du is to the left of the 15L line. I am about on the 45L line and get flamed for some of my posts. But I have a thick skin and hang around. Does being on the 45L make me a Freeper? I've been called that.

[Reality Not Tin Foil]

63. 45 yard line?

I'm surprised you haven't been banned.

Or killed.


Interesting being a common sense Democrat on the internet, isn't it??

:)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

54. You say "left wing of the left wing"

as if that were a BAD thing.

Me? I'm proud of it. At least I stand for something, unless certain people I could mention.

[sonicx]

55. well, them 'normal' democrats seem to be having problems winning

don't they?

[Beacho]

56. First of all, It's not called 'Late Term Abortion'

It's called dilation and extraction.

Nobody chooses this procedure, it is not elective.

It's done to protect the health and/or life of the mother ONLY.

More often than not the fetus cannot survive on it's own and will die in the womb.

Or be severely disfigured and die from malformities.


STOP DRINKING THE KOOL AID!

http://rawstory.com/exclusives/avery/partial_birth_abortion_feel_good_bad_831.htm

[Cheswick2.0]

57. why would you be against late tern abortion?

It is only done to save the life and health of a woman and almost always when the fetus is either already dead or will die at birth anyway. Do you have something against protecting the life and health of women?

[Forkboy]

60. I can think of another board that can't be mentioned

that must be laughing it's collective ass off of your subject header.

[Cheswick2.0]

70. So true Forkboy

the OP has no clue about the utter ridiculousness of his post.

[Bridget Burke]

68. What's wrong with that?

I'm sure there's a "Moderate Underground" board somewhere that might make you feel more welcome.

[Cheswick2.0]

84. Moderate underground.............. LOL

how about a appeasment underground? Their motto could be "we stand for less".

[PATRICK]

74. Suicide not an option for us

Nobody has a problem backing any of the fine democrats of various persuasions. When it comes to joining the circular firing squad the rest of those self-styled new wave pols never stop firing.

It's about the losing stupid. The DLC and others get very unnerved that any talk of being held responsible for their disastrous failures casts aspersions as well on their precious philosophical dogmas. the extremism is all left and center when it comes to clinging to power and this strange vision for the swing voter dominance of the new Democrat.

Even Clinton bemoaned the fact they were forced pretty much to become Eisenhower Republicans. What a rush. Not only do you turn off the huge Democratic base and coalitions I suppose one brands liberal(AFL-CIO, minorities) but you join a losing cause. The GOP is being transformed into a ruling fascist party and the Dems want to slide into place by becoming the new Republican(moderate) minority Party. That is bad enough except for the mortal blows being wielded against the American people and the very notion of America AND our simple survival. When an ideology becomes that great a hindrance it no longer can be part of a party.

That is why we don't need fascists, communists, Republicans, delusional New Democrat collaborators. We simply need a healthy spectrum of Democrats. The problem is a poisonously incompetent and blind leadership, easily played, conned, but like so many of such ilk, damn hard to dislodge by people who want to fight and get the job done. It seems they all have succumbed to media poison like any poor sap on a sofa and that anything that might be called "liberal" is taboo. That's leadership?

Daschle, Reid, Vilsack, Lieberman, Bayh. All have very fine positions, values and much to offer the party. It is their disastrous effect on national leadership( a spectrum of defeat, horribly misjudged collaboration and anti-charismatic "blending") that raises ire here- although it is usually boils over on some issue or other. I mean it's bad enough to know these guys couldn't ever lead us out of this mess, but to be lectured to, sold out and treated as rivals dangerous to democracy is sealing their fate not ours. Or maybe all of ours.

If they succeed in exclusionary politics, trying to sop up the 2% lukewarm, wobbly voters, they can keep the party in name only. The real party will move on. We had dean supporters and Kucinich supporters and Clark supporters in abundance on DU. Practically speaking we wanted someone to win for all of us. The losing impetus seems to have come from the morbidly quiescent "pragmatism" of the central command. I don't think anyone on God's earth could have won under their tutelage. A purge would hurt the party too and these nellies hide behind the togetherness security blanket to evade responsibility and the plain truth.

Dean should be closely consulted in picking a DNC chair. Instead the losers hold him at arms length to drive away even more enthused voters than the ones they let down November 2004.

[Cheswick2.0]

75. very well said Patrick n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

80. Besides when they gang-up on you ... you don't stand a GHOST of

a chance. ROTFLMAO & scampering away to the moderate political spectrum.

[Cheswick2.0]

96. I'm sure you have a point

I wonder what it is?

[kodi]

81. nicely done.

working class people are not radicals, but they understand the vicissitudes of life better than the well-heeled dem pols and policy wonks who run the party.

until we get back to basics and advocate economic democracy and the things it brings to the average working person, we will continue to attempt to cobble a majority party from often mutually exclusive viewpoints that cancel each other out at the ballot box.

i thought that howard dean spoke of this better than anyone else in the primary campaign.

the heart and soul of the democratic party has been organized labor and the civil rights activists. labor is weak now and many of the original goals of the civil rights movement have been obtained. we will have to take a step back and return to advocating the basic needs people expect from government... justice to our citizens.

somehow we have to communicate that leaving to the private, wealth producing sector the nation's health is inadequate for producing justice.

really, there is no more important thing a government does than provide justice to the people.

[no name no slogan]

89. Patrick, if you're a drinking man, I'd buy you a beer

:beer:

You nailed it EXACTLY with your post. After all, even Wellstone and Kerry were close friends and were very close on most issues.

The difference is that Wellstone was a street-fighting Dem who cut his political teeth fighting against big utilities and banks on behalf of working people-- even getting arrested for civil disobedience. Although he was active in the DFL in MN, he was always a bit of an "outsider": for example, he didn't run in the same circles as Hubert H. Humphrey III or Walter Mondale.

Kerry, OTOH, was a big-city prosecutor who moved in the circles of the elites-- you would never expect him to be at a protest, out in the streets with the "rabble" or performing an act of civil disobedience. Yes, he was right on 90% of the issues, but he didn't seem like the type of person who ever had to fight for anything in his life.

People are sick and tired of the "focus group" politics espoused by the DLC. They don't want the party to take the position of convenience, thinking that's what most voters "want". They want a party that holds certain values and truths, and will stand up for these values come election time.

[PATRICK]

93. People organize

elites divide and conquer.

[kentuck]

79. I can tell by the lack of disagreement that you are exactly right...

<sarcasm off>

[Harlan James]

85. Names, names, names...

How fucking boring.

[LittleClarkie]

90. I seem to remember a high school teacher

who commented that if one goes far enough to the left, or far enough to the right, that one would end up meeting the other side around back.

There is a definite Democrat Freeper contingent here that I'd say has as much of a reality disconnect as their mirrors on the other side of the spectrum. I don't know how big it is. It's loud and proud, though.

As you say, I thought we were the inclusive party. But when I hear "It's us against the Moderates!" I cringe. Somewhere Rove is cheering. Yea, the Dems are splitting apart at the seams. They'll be especially ineffectual now.

We had something beautiful going there for a while with the coalition. We need to find a way to stay together. Power in numbers. Wish I knew how to make that happen.

[seg4527]

98. I'll one-up you

I'm part of the left wing of the left wing of the left wing of the Democratic Party.

Have a nice day. :)

[TeacherCreature]

104. You wouldn't know left if it came up and bit you on the posterior,

I could direct you to some other forums, but you wouldn't last ten minutes.

They have REAL lefties at those places...and they are ALWAYS hungry for fresh new meat!!!!

[usregimechange]

109. And you know him how? nt

[TeacherCreature]

111. From the post, only the post, y' see.....

And anyone who REALLY thinks that DU is a "leftist" forum could not possibly know what a real leftist or liberal-left website looks like.

[ScreamingMeemie]

106. The big tent is fast becoming a teepee...er chapel even.

:hi:

[greenohio]

107. I think it is a place for people to vent and think "out-loud" with others.

To test their ideas and get feedback. That said there are some who are just candidate hacks who want to promote their guy.

[Q]

110. It would be much EASIER to be a Republican...

...no disagreements, no stepping out of the party line, no critical thinking...just accept what you're told on face value. You're not asking for 'diversity'...you want everyone to think alike and march in lock-step. That kind of thinking belongs somewhere else...like the GOP.

The 'late term' abortion argument is bogus. Why are people in our own party using it?

[vet_against_Bush]

116. I am glad you aren't DNC chair, nt

[LaPera]

112. Your WRONG!!! Get fucking real dude--This forum is way, way too

too middle of the road, "moderate".


THIS IS LIGHT WEIGHT CHILD'S PLAY HERE...

DENNIS KUCINICH THE ONLY REAL LIBERAL RUNNING COULD BARELY MUSTER 10% OF THE PEOPLE HERE AT DU...EVERYONE WANTED MODERATES LIKE EDWARDS, KERRY, DEAN OR CLARK---HARDLY HARE-CORE LIBERALS!!!

(EXCEPT IF YOUR A REPUBLICAN AND WANT TO POINT THE FINGER AT THOSE FOUR GUYS AND STICK A LIBERAL LABEL ON THEM. DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE THOUGH, BY ANY MEANS).

[brindis_desala]

115. Archaic terminologies

There are no liberals or conservatives anymore or haven't you noticed. Are the neocons conservative? Are the Dominionists led by Thomas and Scalia? I have been impressed with much of what I've read here but by in large the political analysis seems stuck in the 1970's. The corporations have turned this into a nationalist vs. globalist game and the Republicans (appear) to keep winning by creating the right wedge issue just in time for the next election: In the 80's it was crime, the nineties drugs, the 00's gays and abortion. None of these are the economic or environmental issues which are what vitally need to be discussed and addressed. Are we helping ourselves by becoming an empire or should we be thinking multilaterally in a cooperative global context. How do we get the corporations to act ethically and pay a decent wage fairly graded to the demographic of the workforce. That's the ten ton elephant in the room folks.

[vet_against_Bush]

117. Because they wanted a winner, imo

[vet_against_Bush]

118. Well, someone they thought could win... nt