Regain power with Dean - By Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen

[Khephra]

Regain power with Dean
By Rob Reiner and Martin Sheen, 1/19/2004

AS THIS PRESIDENTIAL campaign began, we knew that something fundamental was at stake: Our country faces a growing threat to our liberty and justice in America.


Thomas Jefferson and James Madison spoke of the fear that economic power would one day seize political power. That fear is now being realized -- under the Bush administration, pharmaceutical companies draft our Medicare laws. Oil executives sit in the vice president's office and write energy bills. A majority of the reconstruction contracts in Iraq have gone to the president's campaign contributors. This president has squandered the goodwill of the world abroad while pursuing reckless fiscal policies here at home all for his personal agenda and that of his campaign contributors.

A year ago, the Dean campaign began as a traditional candidacy for the presidency. Governor Dean hoped to talk about health care for all and a fiscal responsibility that would benefit all Americans. Indeed, Dean has an unmatched record in this race: He's balanced budgets, he's created jobs, reduced taxes, and he's passed a health care plan that works.

But this campaign has grown above and beyond a discussion of the important issues that concern us. It has become a movement that is allowing the American people to reclaim their political process.

more..........

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/01/19/regain_power_with_dean/#

I checked and this doesn't seem to be a dupe. If it is, my apologies.

[Rose Siding]

1. A traditional political campaign will not beat Bush

It has to be bigger than that.

[ulysses]

3. maybe you missed the "began as" part

But this campaign has grown above and beyond a discussion of the important issues that concern us. It has become a movement that is allowing the American people to reclaim their political process.

[Rose Siding]

4. I agree with that!

I don't think Dean's campaign is traditional. That's why I think he has the best chance.

[ulysses]

10. my bad!

*ties knee to floor*

Sorry - I'm a little twitchy these days. :)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. LOL

A lot of us are twitchy.

[cthrumatrix]

11. so very true....there is so much at stake for the people...shrub must be

fired....he has done too much damage already to US credibility in the world...

start today..get involved

[question everything]

2. I don't get the contradiction

On the one hand Dean wants to "replace Washington," on the other hand he worked hard to get "Washington" - Gore, Harkin, Bradely, Carter - to support him.

[JPJones]

5. It seems to me that...

a lot of Dean endorsements are really endorsements of the Dean campaign.

"His candidacy offers us a chance to ensure a government of, by, and for the people.

This movement offers the American people an opportunity to take back the White House, the Congress, our state legislatures, and our local governments."

How? Someone tell me the plan. Otherwise, it's just a bunch of populist fluff. I've been to the White House, and it will never hold all of us.

[Bombtrack]

8. It is a bunch of fluff, Dean's campaign message requires unspecificity

because the idea that we have a better chance to beat Bush with him than Kerry, Edwards, or Clark is so ludicrous when you get down to reality

[Lobo_13]

12. I look at it this way

the PTB in Washington have been increasingly boldened by the lack of interest by the majority of Americans in politics. They love the fact that half of the voting age population didn't last time around. That only 1/3rd of them did in the mid-terms.

They use this disinterest to serve their own interests, not those of the American people.

The campaign is all about not just making people aware of what's going on in Washington and how it affects their lives, but also making it easy for them to be involved. Because like it or not, politics touches just about everything we do in one way or another.

When we go out to vote in large numbers, we are letting the folks in Washington know that we are paying attention and they may just start looking out for our interests again.

(disclaimer: This is not in any way a smear on any candidate running for president, but a statement about the overall atmosphere in washington.)

[Lobo_13]

29. And as expected

the rabble rousers aren't actually interested in an answer so much as they want to rabble rouse.

[lastliberalintexas]

33. I agree

I've said this before myself- the candidate is not so important as the campaign. And that's a *good* thing.

Until we have a campaign willing to talk to that 50% of registered voters who fail to show up in Nov, we will continue to lose ground to the repubs. They are extremely committed to their party and turnout in very high numbers.

If we could focus on getting Dems and non-voters to turnout for election day, we could win with 60% of the vote. And that doesn't even speak to the many Americans who aren't even registered to vote!

But something like that- massive participation in our democracy by our people- might actually change the balance of power and Corporate America might get called to the carpet. And we can't have that, you know.

[stickdog]

30. It seems to me that a lot of the attacks on Dean are attacks on the

Dean campaign.

And I have to wonder why so many feel so threatened by new and energized Democratic voters.

[blm]

6. I thought Dean was FOR deregulating power for his energy donors.

How can he give it to the people when he already sold the power company to BFEE loyalist, Koch brothers?

[poskonig]

7. If Dean loses IA, I want Dean supporters to join the Kerry camp.

Recycled candidate-bashing doesn't help us.

[Khephra]

14. Why?

It won't be over for Dean if he loses IA. Originally he wasn't even expected to come in higher than last place and now he's in the front of the pack with the big boys.

Even if Dean pulls off a miracle and wins 99% of the vote, it wouldn't be over for the rest of the candidates either. ANYONE who thought/thinks that IA is the end-all, be-all of the primary is fooling themselves. All of the frontrunners have a chance until at least Super-Tuesday.

[poskonig]

15. Not all of Dean's support is hard.

Much of it is soft. Additionally, there are a lot of undecided Democrats out there. Many Dean supporters aren't thrilled about the prospect of a President Clark either.

[Khephra]

16. A lot of us are also anti-Kerry

I'd rather vote for Clark than Kerry, despite the hassles that I've had to deal with from SOME Clark supporters.

[poskonig]

18. Which is precisely the point.

If Dean is out of the equation and/or heading downhill, where would a Kerry supporter want the lost Dean votes to break -- Clark or Kerry?

[Khephra]

22. And you miss my point

It WON'T be over after one primary, even if Dean pulled off a landslide or finished last, so there's no point in Dean supporters (really the supporters of anyone) changing after one contest.

This race is now too close for one or two primaries to set it in stone. Dean has roared back before (in fact the latest polls have had him on the uptake) and he could do it again. Hell, if any candidate happens to win the next two primaries it still wouldn't be over for anyone.

(other than possibly Lieberman and Gephardt...Kucinich isn't going anywhere and neither is Sharpton.)

[poskonig]

23. I understand Dean will not be knocked out by a single primary.

However, given 'x' amount of Dean supporters may switch for whatever motivations if Dean finishes 3rd (as an example), attacking the Dean people right before a potential loss is not a sound method to bring people into another campaign.

I'm sure you agree, given all of the attacks here at DU.

:bounce:

[stickdog]

31. If Dean wins IA, I want Kerry, Edwards & Gephardt supporters to join

the Dean camp.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Fat chance. Switch from anti-war to pro-war?

No way.

[jmaier]

9. It's my belief

that if Clark, Edwards or Kerry instead of Gov Dean win the nomination then the American people, well at least Democrats and Democrat-leaning independents, will have just as successfully regained a chance to again be 'empowered.'

[Bombtrack]

13. We'll LOSE a hell of alot more power with him on the ticket

It wouldn't matter if he raised a half a billion dollars(which he never would, just for the sake of argument) the 5 southern democratic open senate seats are 10 times more likely to go republican if Dean is on the ticket than if another southernor or a war hero (or both) were the presidential nominee and could be competative in those states and nationally.

[ulysses]

17. "if another southernor or a war hero (or both)..."

Please ponder the fate of Max Cleland in 2002 and explain to me how a southern war hero is likely to save more Senate seats than anyone else.

[Bombtrack]

20. That was completley different. Cleland lost because of the governors race

The pro-confederate flag people(racists) were excited and turned out in numbers they never had before to oust Roy Barnes. As a side effect, it spilled over into the senate race. And because it was a midterm election, the racist demo was enough to tip the scales.

And it isn't just about Clark being a southern war hero and Edwards having the southern american hero, atticus finch story, and Kerry being having the sort of war hero turned movement leader to senator story

but it is a big part of what would contribute to there overall electoral strategy.

Dean doesn't have a shot at almost any red states, particularly the southern ones

[ulysses]

24. this was a triple-amputee Vietnam vet and incumbent.

Sure, there were other issues at stake, including a suppressed gotv among black voters after the party's treatment of Cynthia McKinney. There are other issues in the presidential election as well, and Clark's southern military background simply isn't a magic potion against them.

[Bombtrack]

26. like how he will cut middle class taxes more + is a foriegn policy expert

which Dean and Bush can't. They also can't say they truely relate to the upbringing of an average American. Which he can.

[ulysses]

36. Clark can expect

more challenges from the left *and* right regarding his foreign policy and tax positions. Dean can too, but again, my point is that Clark doesn't have a magic bullet.

They also can't say they truely relate to the upbringing of an average American. Which he can.

Ok, he's "The Man from Hope" reborn. I don't see that having much resonance.

[Eloriel]

34. Bombtrack

Cleland lost because of the governors race
The pro-confederate flag people(racists) were excited and turned out in numbers they never had before to oust Roy Barnes. As a side effect, it spilled over into the senate race. And because it was a midterm election, the racist demo was enough to tip the scales.

Not true. The GA SoS released the data in Feb last year and it showed no significant change in any demographics -- well, except for a slight uptick in black females.

SoS Press Release, Feb. 25, 2002
http://www.sos.state.ga.us/pressrel/022503.htm

BTW, your argument fails in other ways as well, IMO: Those hordes of racist white males you imagine elected DEMOCRAT Secretary of State Cathy Cox, AFRICAN AMERICAN DEMOCRAT Attorney General Thurbert Baker, and DEMOCRAT Lt. Gov. Mark Taylor.

[lastliberalintexas]

21. I hope you don't actually

expect a reasoned, logical answer to your question. I've asked it several times and have yet to see anything other than Clark is superhuman and can deal with Rove, get every Dem to vote AND bring in repub voters to our camp type responses. At least I've learned that we have a candidate who can walk on water. ;-)

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lastliberalintexas]

28. Please- I said nothing of Dean

But to think that the political neophyte Clark can withstand scrutiny from Shrub's team when someone like Cleland couldn't is, um, strange to say the least.

Any of our candidates has a good chance at LA and WV. But it's highly unlikely that any other Southern state will be won by ANY Dem. I'm just sorry that some people here think that Clark is some kind of savior set to reclaim the South for the Dems- because it's not going to happen.

But thanks for the implication that I am pathetic. I had not been called a name yet today and was waiting on what the term of the day would be. :hi:

[Bombtrack]

38. I didn't call you pathetic, I compared your charge that Clark supporters

are unwilling to critisize him, when I believe you're candidate(and I believe that is Dean) is supported by people here who completely hold him in just that regard, an infallable one.

And Democrats have a better chance at winning Arkansas than Louisiana, and guess what state Clark is from. That's right, Arkansas. He could win his home state. He could win Florida. And I recently posted a thread on why he has the best chance at Florida a couple days ago. And he has the best shot at Louisiana as well. He's from a Nieghboring state and is Catholic.

Not only that, something people here don't understand, is that even if a candidate doesn't have a good shot at winning every southern state, it's important that they have the best shot of any candidate, of being the most competative in as many states as possible. Because even that remote possibility that Clark wins the Carolinas or Virginia or Tennessee, makes the GOP have to work as hard for those states as they did against Al Gore and we need that because otherwise they realocate that percentage of the expendature in money and people to other, more moderate states

[lastliberalintexas]

41. Well, I've criticized Dean

on many issues, so I doubt that accusation can be applied to me- or to most Dean supporters for that matter. Every candidate has supporters who refuse to acknowledge any weakness in their guy, but I wouldn't say those are the majority for any candidate.

But I responded to someone who had asked a very specific question about Clark- one that I'd asked in the past myself and have yet to get a reasoned response. I've also asked how gay marriage/civil unions hurts Dean more than any of our Dems as some have alleged, and have yet to receive an answer to that question either.

On the South, we will just have to wait and see. This is something that bothers me about *some* Clark supporters- they act as though they have a crystal ball which tells them exactly how this election will play out. No one knows that- except that we all know Shrub will try some sneaky stuff. Beyond that, all of this is just someone's opinion. You think Dean would do miserably in the South, while I think he'd be one of our better candidates down here (pro-guns, pro-death penalty in some instances, fiscally responsible, perceived as "no-bull" non-politician that plays well down here). FWIW, as much as I personally like him, I think Kerry could be one of our worst down here ("anti-gun", anti-death penalty, "boring" liberal elitist from the Northeast). This should also not be read as any indication of where I agree with those men, just how the majority of Southerners would *likely* see them. And I could certainly be wrong in my calculations- but so could you.

OTOH, if you *do* have that crystal ball, how about PMing me with the next winning lottery numbers? ;-)

[Eloriel]

27. Then you don't understand the meaning of the word --

at least as it applies to Dean and Dean supporters. To me, the notion of Clark, Edwrds or Kerry "empowering" anyone but themselves is laughable.

[jmaier]

32. Well

you aren't one of their empowered supporters so I'll give you a pass on conflict of interest. It was, in fact, Clark meetup grassroots efforts that pulled me into this campaign in the first place but then I'm not Wesley Clark and I'm not Howard Dean.

I'm just Jeff Maier and I've found an intelligent, principled candidate that has successfully appealed to both to my reason and emotion.

[Eloriel]

37. You're empowered as a Clark supporter? Really?

Please explain to me how.

[jmaier]

40. Ok

Since my first meetup (in IL), I've been working through grassroots only to do the following:

- send hand-written letters (over 150 to NH and 40 so far to SC)
- get IL ballot petition signatures (4 separate weekends)
- hold house parties and help raise funds (I've hosted 2)
- volunteered to make NH phone calls
- encouraged my daughter to canvass and volunteer (in AZ)

Now, I haven't been contacted by any official from the campaign other than the usual campaign fund-raising emails. The materials (CD's, flyers, etc.) for my house parties all came from pure grassroots supporters.

The petition gathering efforts all came from meetups. The letter writing and phone call making all were coordinated 100% via the Internet.

That's a quick, rough summary.

[Eloriel]

42. Okay

Are you saying none of this is coordinated by the campaign?

[funky_bug]

39. Blacklisted

Sheen AND Carter are both on the NRA blacklist (don't know about Reiner, but I think he is too.)

Not only will this piss off the NRA, but will get that, "Dean is NRA" bullsh*t out of the way.

(I get so tired of guilt by association threads.) Handed to Dean candidates on a silver platter, this rebuttal from a Clark supporter.

In peace, y'all!
Robin