Oh, my, this should be really fun..battle for DNC head.

[madfloridian]

http://www.nysun.com/article/4549

SNIP..."Democratic moderates are gearing up to mount a campaign to block a former presidential candidate, Howard Dean, from succeeding Terence McAuliffe as chairman of the Democratic National Committee, arguing that his election to the top post would prevent the party from moving to the political center..."

SNIP..."Party moderates, however, are already raising a hue-and-cry. With Dr. Dean in the top national party post, any attempt to rethink the Democrats' big party orthodoxy would be hindered, they argue. (Well, Dean is actually a strong moderate)

Speaking on CNN, an outgoing Democratic senator from Louisiana, John Breaux, warned that Dr. Dean is the wrong man for the job. "We're going to have to move to the center," Mr. Breaux said...."

SNIP..."In a speech in Albany this week, Dr. Dean warned the party against moving to the center. "We're not retreating. We're not giving up," he said...." (Well, actually he said we were already in the middle, and if we went further right we would fall off the earth.)

SNIP..."Southern Democrats are also pushing former Rep. Brad Carson of Oklahoma, who lost a Senate bid last week to Republican Tom Coburn. Mr. Carson, who received the endorsement of the National Rifle Association, ran as a moderate. (moderate, my ass..he's extreme.)

While acknowledging that he would be a longshot, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, Jay Parmley, said Mr. Carson is exactly the kind of politician the national party should be turning to. "We need a moderate and a conservative to lead us into the midterm elections," he said...."

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[geek tragedy]

2. NY Sun=rightwing propaganda.

Why not just name Zell Miller or Karl Rove while they're at it?

They are thinking in one-dimension--left vs right. A foolish way to conceive of complex issues and elections.

[madfloridian]

11. One of the owners is a Democrat....will look him up.

..."Reportedly funding the publication on a shoestring budget of $15 million, the Sun’s backers include international media mogul Conrad Black and Democratic Party activist Michael Steinhardt — the latter also mentioned in a gossipy New York Daily News item last week as a possible buyer of the neoliberal New Republic. (Current owner Marty Peretz told the News that there was nothing to it, but stay tuned.) The Sun’s editor will be Wall Street Journal columnist Seth Lipsky, who was ousted as editor of the Jewish Forward in 2000 because of a dispute over his political conservatism. Lipsky will be assisted by Ira Stoll, another Forward alumnus and the impresario of SmarterTimes.com, a hugely entertaining Web site devoted to bashing the Times."

[geek tragedy]

36. Michael Steinhardt is a big-time DINO.

He pals around at a Republican think tank called the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.

[Eloriel]

65. Not just a DINO,

if I'm not mistaken he's a PNACer, also DLC big time. There's lots of info on him, and NONE of it good. He's the type of person that makes me suspicious about:

The best way to control the opposition is to lead it ourselves. -- Lenin

[Logansquare]

3. If they pick another DINO right-leaning, no-vision fundraiser

It will be 527s and direct contributions for me, and the DNC can go fuck themselves. It's got to be Dr. Dean or someone like him.

[BurtWorm]

4. If the "Moderates" win this war, I will work to destroy

the Democratic Party. I will leave it and not come back until I find it recognizable again.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

8. Winning elections after a while is less the point than maintaining

the integrity of the party. I will not be pulled right because the leaders of the party are too chicken shit to fight back.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

10. You think it's relevant to become Republican lite?

Imitation is the sincerest form of irrelevancy.

[Red State Rebel]

14. I agree, we cannot let them push us further right.

Either we believe in our party principals or we have already lost the fight.

[Carni]

34. Why would I want to "win"

If my party and candidate doesn't stand for anything I agree with?

WTF would be the point to THAT?

[BurtWorm]

38. I think the poster meant something different by "our agenda"

than you and I do. ;)

[Carni]

46. Yeah...us drooling leftist pigs LOL

I thought "uber lefties" were people like the Symbianese liberation army (sp?) and maybe the black panthers?

Do those people still exist BTW?

Maybe I am posting in the wrong forum and should go join my brethren "uber lefties" over on an SLA or BP forum LOL
(although frankly I have never looked good in a large afro or a beret!)

[madfloridian]

13. "enough of you"? I think you gave away your agenda, my friend.

Sort of like "those people"?

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

16. "uber lefties?"

Oh what a giveaway, mein herr.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

24. You're proposing the same old shit: retreat.

If the Democratic Party wants to retreat, it's going to lose more and more of us. If it doesn't learn how to stand up and fight, it's not worth saving.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

42. So you think we should just run right wing Democrats from now on.

Interesting theory. ;)

[Name removed]

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[UpsideDownFlag]

56. "literally the most liberal member of our party"??

um...but up ahead, i thought you talked about kucinich and dean being the Uber Liberals...

[Voltaire]

57. Ummmm....Kerry USED to be Liberal

Now he's just a tired old Dem Politician scrambling to maintain his political viability. Enough of that shit. If this party does not have the cojones to stand up for themselves then to hell with it. And moving towards the middle won't cut it. Parties are supposed to LEAD...not pander. What you are suggesting is the worst kind of ass-kissing to the middle.

For the record, I am a very strong and SELFISH Deaniac. While I think you should get someone like him to run the DNC, I would much prefer he stay out of that place and run for president again.

[Walt Starr]

18. When given a choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a

Republican, the American people will always go with the Republican.

---Harry Truman

Part of Kerry's problem was he tried to be too close to Bush on too many stances and offered no clear choice between himself and Bush to the middle, thus he lost.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

26. Right Lane Must Exit.

How true.

[mrgorth]

31. Fervently...anti...gun...as...Kerry?

I know you're not serious.

[mrgorth]

32. Fervently...anti...gun...as...Kerry?

I know you're not serious.

[Walt Starr]

47. I see by your tombstone you are a dead Freeper

Makes sense, huh?

[BurtWorm]

50. Man, did he disrupt poorly!

:eyes:

[VelmaD]

22. If you think Howard Dean is anywhere near...

being on the left then you have obviously drunk the Kool-aid. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

28. What do you care about who runs the Democratic Party?

Seriously. Do you dare to be honest?

[Carni]

37. What "middle"??

How the hell is Dean an "uber leftie"

Is being a *Democrat* just your day job?

[mondo joe]

53. Please explain specifically what maks Dean an "uber lefty"

I'd even give you Kucinich.

But what about Dean is uber lefty?

Specifics please.

[madfloridian]

54. That one can speak no more. Check profile .

:hi:

[Walt Starr]

6. Breaux needs to be considered a spy

Feed him bad information and send him back to his Republican masters with it.

[goddess40]

19. Breaux should shut his mouth

He is a Democrat in name only. He votes consistantly with the repukes.

[BurtWorm]

35. Speaking of spies

What happened to the one who was just here a moment ago?

[Carni]

39. I could have sworn that I read herr bush was considering

Appointing Breaux to some type of cabinet position.

I think I read it last night but I can't recall where I saw that?

[Nederland]

7. You're right

This should be fun.

Its odd, I'm one of the most conservative people here on DU and I never understood why Dean is considered left wing. My aunt, who lives in Vermont and is a member of the "looney" left, can't stand Dean. Why do people think of him as left wing, is it simply because he was anti-war in the primaries? I never understood it.

[VelmaD]

25. Pople think of Dean as left-wing because...

the media told them he was. People are stupid.

[Logansquare]

49. I agree!!! Dean is a pragmatic liberal

People who say he is left wing haven't met left wing, obviously. The Terry McAuliffe/Donna Brazile wing of the Democratic party are seduced by money and power. Ethics don't really get in their way--it's all about winning.

[dsc]

12. Forget about Carson being a conservative

the problem is that he is an idiot.

[madfloridian]

20. I heard him on MTP or FTN, and he is really extreme.

I was surprised. He did not sound like a Democrat. Didn't the party support him over someone else who was running?

[demokatgurrl]

27. Dean is a CENTRIST!!! He may even be more to the

right than Clinton. This drives me CRAZY that people think he's far left. If we move any more to the center we'll be on the right wing!

The Democratice "moderates" and party leaders are gearing up to destroy themselves. Why don't we all just become Republicans.
And that article is just FULL of inaccuracies and mischaracterizations.

[madfloridian]

30. Stop yelling. His supporters know he is moderate.

I believe I said so in the OP. He is different than the others though, he is the only Democrat who is now willing to keep the stances on pro-choice and support of civil unions.

Trust me, the others are ready to drop them big time.

Trust me. Clinton pulled the civil unions not electable stuff before Iowa on Dean.....you don't need to yell. Those of us who support him know every stance.

[Name removed]

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[Stuckinthebush]

29. Don't they get it?

If the DNC moves further to the center, then the very significant left will leave. I guess Ralph Nader is correct, there is no progressive party.

I am a Democrat because the Democrats represent my values. Once they stop doing that, I am no longer a Democrat.

[Winamericaback]

33. Right wing pandering

Okay so in order to win we are going to pander to the right and basically become them loosing the base to pick up the right wingers.. oh that makes alot of sense. If they move any more right then I'm jumping ship. I'd rather spend my vote on a 3rd party candidate then pander to the right.

[madfloridian]

43. They are destroying our country because we won't confront them.

They have take issues like abortion, crammed them down peoples' throats. We are not speaking that our country is dying...instead we are being nice and not making them mad.

Just ask someone where the money is coming from for the Iraq war, since taxes have been cut? Confront them on it.

My son said it made him think when I said "where are they getting the money?" He just never thought about it.

[JNelson6563]

45. "We need Rethug-lite!" cried the DINOs

Puh-thetic!

When will Dems grow a backbone and quit letting Rethugs set the debate? It better be soon.....

Julie

[madfloridian]

55. And a big "Yes" to that statement.

:hi:

[tokenlib]

48. We are talking Dean here, not Kucinich...

Dean is a moderate with progressive leanings who would be awesome as party leader. Those of us who are much closer to Kucinich will vouch for Dean being a moderate. We do not need a DLC--republican-lite leader. Dean would be a great leader.

Look at it this way, those of us on the left will tell you Dean is a moderate---those on the right will tell you he is a liberal--- so he must be a moderate!!

[Logansquare]

51. This hijacking of the terminology makes me see RED!!!

I am infuriated at the super-liberal label being pasted on Dean, or Kerry for that matter. Talk about two very different people who are in the same party. I consider myself to be a moderate, partially because I know so many people to the left of me. According to "common wisdom" I am a commie pinko, though.

[madfloridian]

52. The DLC started that label. They also made fun of anti-war protestors.

That is when I started getting very mad.

At their site find this article, "Good night, Vietnam"
www.ndol.org

[Lenape85]

59. EXACTLY

Even as a Kucinich Democrat, I can stomach Howard Dean, and I would jump for joy if Dean was DNC leader.

And yes, he's just the type of moderate we need.

[Maeven8pol]

58. DEMOCRATS.......Let's Define OURSELVES for a change. Howard Dean

STARTED the dialogue when he spoke out against the war and *'s policies during the primary. Once the other candidates realized that Howard had struck a chord with the people, they were all on board and that's when * started to have a fight on his hands.

Howard Dean WILL CONNECT with the people and make them see exactly what a Democratic national party SHOULD BE DOING. He'll show them who the Democratic Party REALLY is....and that's what they're afraid of! People HEAR Howard Dean when he speaks. They listen to him and they relate to him. He could energize the BASE of the party like no John Breaux, Donna Brazile, Vilsack(?) or ANY of the other possibles could. So you can BET that "THEY" will never stand for Howard Dean getting anywhere NEAR being the DNC Chair.

The media finished him off before because too many people were scared to death of what he'd do for us. Unfortunately, they'll probably do it again.

[Minstrel Boy]

60. Jean-Luc Picard addresses the Democratic Party:

"They invade our space, and we fall back.

They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back.

Not again.

The line must be drawn here!

And I will make them pay for what they've done."

I think that's a roundabout way of saying he endorses Howard Dean for DNC Chair.

[seraph]

61. What is with these people??

Who the fuck wants to be republican-lite?

[Capn Sunshine]

62. This is the problem

They have allowed the republicans to frame the debate.

The definition of "center" keeps getting moved farther right. So much so, that a centrist like Howard Dean is portrayed as a wild eyed left winger.

Folks, moving farther right is not the answer. Stay true to your core values, don't try to co-opt your opponent's set. You just end up a watered down version of the same thing. And as they have demonstrated, the electorate tends to vote for the real thing over a diluted substitute.

[RunningFromCongress]

63. Screw moving to the middle nationally

Let the middle work itself out in house races & some senate races; Nationally we need to be left.

[bobbyboucher]

64. If Dean wants it, give it to him.

Fuck the centrists, they are going to split the party. Hell, they might have already done it. Which begs the question, are they really Democrats at all? Would it surprise you that the Democratic Party was infiltrated with asshats?

[Larkspur]

66. So the DLC clowns want to replace a loser, McAwful, with another loser

While acknowledging that he would be a longshot, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, Jay Parmley, said Mr. Carson is exactly the kind of politician the national party should be turning to. "We need a moderate and a conservative to lead us into the midterm elections," he said...."

If Carson's moderation is the elixir of winning elections, he blew his, so why would we want this loser at the helm of the DNC?

Personally, I want Dean to run for Prez again in 2008 and in the meantime work to build the Dems from the grassroots up so that we can oust the DLC clowns who are killing the Dem Party.

[sampsonblk]

67. Dean is the man for the job

He brought the only real excitement to our party this year, and a lot of people listened because what he said made a LOT of sense. Thats what we need. People on our side making sense instead of retreating all the damn time.

[DoYouEverWonder]

68. Maybe both parties should split?

I for one, am sick of playing to the middle. I'm sick of compromising my principles.

I think the same thing is happening in the Repug party, too. The idealogical split in the Repugs is even bigger than the Dems. Has a matter of fact, before the election the Dems had never been so united.

I think there are a lot of po'd liberals and creative people in this country and that we are not about to shut up. We will find our own voices. There are few politicians who speak for me anymore, anyway.

[Mountainman]

69. Could any of the other DNC candidates do what Dean did in the primaries?

Dean got a lot of people involved, I assume he would do that again. For that reason alone I am for him as head of the DNC.

What good are two parties fighting for the middle? A man walking down the middle of the road gets hit by trucks going both ways.

I want us to go to the left for a change. I want us to be anti war. I want us to be about social justice. If we aren't about those things, if we just imitate the repubs just for a win I will become independent.

[Wind Dancer]

70. Same here!

[melv]

71. Carson is not a Democrat

Trust me. I live in Oklahoma and he got is a** handed to him by Coburn.

He is a repug. Plain and Simple.

[eridani]

72. Dean better as DLC head than as presidential candidate, IMO

As a candidate, he did much better at engaging passionate volunteers that at getting votes, as there are 10 times as many people who are ignorant as there are people who are passionately involved, and they get to vote too. After he dropped out, he immediately began doing one of the things that most needs to be done--seeking out and promoting new candidates for public office at the state and local levels. If the DNC would admit that that is what most needs to be done, they'd instantly see that Dean is the best guy for the job.