Part of Me Wants Dems to Let the GOP Have Their Way

[mondo joe]

Let middle America see what the GOP plans for them - not only no abortion but no birth control. No social security to speak of. Not only no gay marriage but NO rights for same sex couples.

I really wish the dems would push for a compromise position so the repigs could prove how extreme they are.

[MsTryska]

1. absolutely.

as i've been saying for the past week, let them sit in their own shit.

[mondo joe]

4. How do we do it? Have dems just agree to everything?

Or at least fail to filibuster?

[MsTryska]

9. There was a thread on this a few days back....

basically the idea is that many moderates are expecting us to stand up and fight for what's right, so they can happily carry on with their partisanship.


but since we're the monority, and any unified front we form winds up being useless, let the moderate republicans and the jesus republicans fight it out amongst themselves.


this will help in fracturing the party, because the jesus republicans will come up with something loonie, the moderate republicans will think it's loony, but they will expect us to do the fighting for them. if we stop enabling, they're forced to fight their own party by themselves.


we sit and we wait, without giving an opinion, or maybe just little hints at support for the moderates......(most bills go through many iterations before they coem close to being finalized)

we abstain abstain abstain until the final iteration comes around and by then the moderates are courting us to vote us a block, we give them the vote and stop the insanity.


this way, republicans become their own opposition, and we are the ones working in the spirirt of bipartisanship.


now if anyone that's actually in Congress actually sees this, and implements, is beyond me.

[mondo joe]

12. I missed that thread but like the idea. Let the moderate repigs fight it

I missed that thread but like the idea. Let the moderate repigs fight it and fracture their own party.

[chefgirl]

27. It's called triangulation

The Republicans have been doing it for years, and much more openly in the last 4 years. The idea is to co-opt both sides of an arugment, forcing the opposition to take a much less desirable, third side of the argument, if you will. Think IWR.

I believe its CRUCIAL for the Democrats to stop being the third side of the triangle for the Republicans. If you don't give them the target they need to throw political darts at, they will have no one but themselves to blame.

Abstain, abstain, abstain is exactly the answer, because the Republicans know they can't afford to enact a lot of the changes they pay lip service to, and they depend on the Democrats to be the loyal opposition. If the Dems force them out into the light, like the cockroaches they are, the more radical among them will push for their agenda and the more moderate Repubs will have no choice but to take the other side or risk their own political capital.

If the Dems really start playing some smart politics, we might just have a chance to expose all the pandering Bush did to win votes. As an added bonus, it would make the fundies heads explode to find out they were HAD!

Save the limited power we have for the most important issues, like SCOTUS nominees, but other than that, give them enough rope to hang themselves.

-chef-

[LisaL]

10. Well, aren't we sitting in their shit as well?

[mondo joe]

13. We are. But the question is do we make a symbolic fight

We are. But the question is do we make a symbolic fight that doesn't ultimately stop anything, or just abstain and say "You're in control. You decide."

And don't forget that much legislation is just politics - putting an issue out knowing who will vote against it so their vote can be used against them later.

[MsTryska]

15. We're sitting in it regardless.

and have been for the last for years. so we might as well make ourselves as comfortable as we can while we watch the horror sprout up on other people's faces.



How do we the people make ourselves comfortable?

Spending our money wisely, and in the "right" places, boycotting those who stand to gain from whatever follies the administration throws at us.

preparing the ground game now, to take some of those newly disenfranchised votes away.

never letting anyone sitting in their own shit for the first time forget that they are in fact, sitting in their own shit.

maintaining that stoic sensibility and faith in what being a liberal is, and that it is a good thing.

[in_cog_ni_to]

2. Me too. Let's watch them fall on their faces.

Let's watch them further destroy this country. Let the middle class disappear. I want every repuke in this country to SUFFER. I don't care who the fuck they are. They need to LIVE what they voted for.

Things are already bad. Let them finish it. Maybe then the idiots that voted for him will open their damn eyes.

[0007]

28. ....they surly will and it right around the corner.

You'll hear em screaming in just a few short months from now.

[JI7]

3. not sure about let them "have their own way", but one important thing

we need to do is expose the extremists who are controlling the party. let falwell, robertson, etc go out there on tv and everywhere else so people can see what their party is about. since the evangelicals did their part in turning out in huge numbers for bush they are wasting no time in wanting their demands met.

i think exposing the extremists would help us in the future in states like Colorado, Arizona,Nevada,Ohio etc which the Republicans have been winning, but not by much.

[meow2u3]

5. I don't know if we should let the babies have their bottles

I wouldn't mind if Bush and the rethugs won fair and square, without any hint of under-the-radar shenanigans. It's the reasonable suspicion of dishonesty and even evidence that the election may be a racket that makes me want to fight for the truth.

[patcox2]

6. They don't have any choice, really.

I get sick of people screaming about how "spineless dems in congress don't stand up to the republicans."

When you are the minority, you have no power, zip, zero, none. Stand up, scream, pound your little fist all you want, the dems have no choice to allow or not allow the republicans to do what they want.

Both sides will bow only to public opinion. Neither democrat nor republican will do anything that they beleive will anger the people of their individual district. The only thing that democrats can possibly do is make sufficient noise to publicize those few issues in which it will make a difference. For example, I don't think Bush will be able to privatize social security, as much as he wants to, it just won't happen. But not because the dems stopped it, rather because the public will stop it. The dems can add their voices to the noise, try to rally public opinion, but thats about it.

And don't even put too much in the senate filibuster as a secret weapon. If its over-used, public opinion will go against us and then they will change the rule. It has to be used very very carefully, because it is essentially an undemocratic tactic.

[Bridget Burke]

7. The Republican part?

Guess you aren't in any of the vulnerable groups you mention, so it's must more of an intellectual exercise to you.

You do not push for a compromise position. You push for what you really want. A compromise might eventually be reached, but you don't make concessions before you even begin the fight.

[mondo joe]

8. Please do not make assumptions about me

IN fact I AM in one of those vulnerable groups I mentioned. It's MUCH more than an intellectual exercise for me.

But I do want middle America to see that the pretense of moderation the GOP has put forth is just a scam.

And I'd like them to see that while there's still a chance in hell of turning things back --- not when its too late.

So thanks for shooting off your mouth about things you are completely ignorant of.

[Bridget Burke]

14. I'm sorry if I offended your sensitivity.

But acting like this is just street theater seems a bit cruel.

And why should be push FOR compromise? What compromised goals should we proclaim?

[mondo joe]

16. It's not sensitivity or street theater.

I wonder if it's possible for you to post without insulting your fellow poster.

And as to why compromise: so voters can see how extreme the cons are. They continue to use stealth campaigning to feign some moderation. They call themselves "compassionate conservatives". But every time push comes to shove they demonstrate how extreme and out of the mainstream they are.

By proposing compromises Dems show a willingness to bend, and they demonstrate how unreasonable the opposition is.

[PsN2Wind]

11. Democrats in the House

have no ability to stop anything the Repugs want. Their votes have little to no value against a majority that votes in lock-step. So, they might as well abstain from votes on most issues rather than casting votes that are only symbolic. They can let their constituents know that whatever comes down the pike is courtesy of the Repugs and that since they are powerless to stop or amend any bills they chose to abstain. Put it ALL on the Repubs.

[G_j]

17. important distinction

abstaining: OK
voting with: No Way!

[toddaa]

18. Pithy H.L. Mencken quote that sums up this thread nicely

Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.

[Teaser]

19. That part of you will be happy then.

The GOP will have most of their way. They are the unquestioned majority party now and will win most fights.

[mondo joe]

20. My issue isn't whether or not they'll win - they will. It's what dems do.

My questionis purely strategic.

Do we gain more by having dems fight and lose?

Or do we gain more by abstaining, getting the very same outcome, and letting the repigs demonstrate who they really are?

[Teaser]

21. A combination.

Fight the very worst things. On other issues, offer an alternative agenda but abstain. This way the public sees what Democrats are offering and feels the sting of bad Republican policy.

That's what opposition parties do around the world and it's time we did too.

[mondo joe]

Teaser, I agree.

Fight hard against the things with the worst long term and irreversable impact - like nominations to the Supreme Court.

On issues where Dems are likely to loose anyway, abstain and say "You're in charge. You take responsibility."

But I also think it's not enough to just respond. I think we need to very wisely and very politically put forth some compromise solutions and let the far right refuse to even agree with that.

[mondo joe]

22. Teaser, I agree.

Fight hard against the things with the worst long term and irreversable impact - like nominations to the Supreme Court.

On issues where Dems are likely to loose anyway, abstain and say "You're in charge. You take responsibility."

But I also think it's not enough to just respond. I think we need to very wisely and very politically put forth some compromise solutions and let the far right refuse to even agree with that.

[Piperay]

23. Same here

let them see what happens when the Democrats aren't there to protect them.

[Zynx]

24. Let them pass their agenda in full. It's unpalatable to the American

people. We found that out to our own dismay in 1994 when we tried to pass our agenda. People do not support the parties' full agendas. In fact, they reject them soundly.

[sendero]

25. I'll go you one further...

.... ALL OF ME would like for Dem congressmen to abstain from all votes for the remainder of Bush**'s term. Let him have his agenda.

The Dems should just issue a statement "we think this legislation is bad for Americans" and sit back.

When the inevitable result comes home to roost, the Reps will be done for decades. Give them the rope.

(I make an exception for judicial appointments, which, in the case of idealogue appointments I hope the Dems fight tooth and nail)

[CBHagman]

26. Did you read the NY Times Letters to the Editor today?

There was one that said compromising would be absolutely the wrong thing for the Democrats to do, as the Republicans translated eight years of openly and very bitterly opposing Clinton into complete control of all three branches of government. That gave me pause.

We've got to stop expecting everyone to love us. I don't think playing nice is going to stop the extremist agenda or even kill Bush's approval rating, let alone win us the House, Senate and the White House.

[petepillow]

29. i agree except for the really long term stuff

because if we're to lay low to let them blow themselves up, we should't let them blow us up as well.

[really annoyed]

30. Might Be A Good Idea

And it seems to be the chosen path for the Democratic party itself!

Funny, but I want to agree with you. I want to see how low this country goes under a "Christian" value system.

Mind you, not the values Christ spoke of.

No rights for same-sex couples is a reality in Virginia. It has already begun!

Just go for it conservative America!