We Were Outsmarted In Florida...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

When I was in grad school one of my political science philosophers shared with me his waxings on why there is tension between those in academia and successful businessmen... It's because those who went on to a career in academia had the good grades and those with mediocre grades went on to mske big money in business...


We have book smarts but the Pugs are better marketers... Look at Florida... In 00 we got 60% or so of the Hispanic vote because outside of Miami much of it is non-Cuban and traditionally Democratic.. What did the Pugs do... They put a Cuban on the bottom of the ticket to run for senate.. Mel Martinex got 60% of the Hispanic vote and won his senate seat... I'm sure he also helped AWOL big time with non-Cuban Hispanics...

We could have countered Martinez with Alex Penellas... Sure he wasn't perfect... He didn't want to send Elian back but he would have been crucified in the Hispanic community if he did...

Betty Castor lost FL by 70,000 votes... It is logical to assume that Alex Penelllas would have got all the vote Castor did plus more Hispanic votes...

We are the brainiacs and they are the guys who know how to sell things....

[gordianot]

1. Do they grow banana's in Florida?

Sorry that was mean.

[Soup Bean]

2. This has added value in that it SUCKS because its TRUE.

*sigh*

[GRLMGC]

3. Right

Our ideals are better and if you ask people, they probably would agree. However, the Republicans are able to mask their evil policies with "morality" and that wins over a lot of the public. It doesn't matter that they're the biggest hypocrites as long as they appear palatable. We need to learn that not everyone is an intellectual.

[lancdem]

4. Very true

I hadn't even thought of that.

[Awsi Dooger]

5. That's the only thing I admire about Rove

He handicaps the individual state and isolates the best candidate, practically mandating they are the nominee. I've mentioned that on DU at least a dozen times. No wimpy let-the-state-decide crap. Almost every Rove-chosen senate canidate has won since 2002.

Remmeber, Katherine Harris wanted to run for that senate seat but the White House forced her not to, worried about a backlash from 2000. Then the losing GOP candidate from 2002, McCullum, ran again in this year's primaries but the administration backed Martinez.

I spent 5 weeks in Florida this summer. Martinez signs were more prevalent than Bush signs by at least 3/1. On Sunday night my mom said, "they're everywhere!"

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. We Could Have Groomed Penellas..

he was a diamond in the rough...


young, telegenic, hispanic, and a cuban hispanic to boot....

now he's finished...

John Stuart Mill called the Tories the stupid party... I wonder what he would say about the Dems...

[Orangepeel]

9. actually, Pinellas is not finished

He didn't fade away (he was a strong supporter of Betty's). He'll most likely run for Governor.

I'll be supporting Jim Davis, but Pinellas has a good shot.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

6. political science professors...

editing time expired....

[Orangepeel]

8. I strongly disagree

1. Castor got more votes than Kerry. She was NOT a drag on the ticket.

2. There is no reason to believe that Pinellas would have got all the votes than Castor did. Castor had name recognition in Central Florida (she beat Martinez in Orange County, his home town), had been elected statewide before and had good cross over appeal to moderate republican women.

3. Why would a Hispanic non-republican voting for Martinez be more likely to vote for bush? If they vote for one R they'll vote for all Rs? Why? The republican party courted Hispanics six ways to Sunday. George P. is very popular and they were all over Spanish language radio for example. It is not at all clear that the reason bush did better among Hispanics this time was because of Martinez.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. She wasn't a drag but she wasn't an asset...

Many Hispanic Democrats voted for Martinez out of ethnic loyalty... Some of them would have stayed with the Dems if the Dem was another Hispanic...


You are missing the point...

Penellas would have got more Hispanic votes than Martinez and that could have been the difference and possibly helped Kerry...


Whatever Betty Castor did it wasn't enough...


The seat held by Bob Graham since 1986 is now in the hands of a pug and a homophobic pug to boot...

[Orangepeel]

16. I'm not missing the point. I just disagree

that Pinellas would have helped Kerry significantly and that Pinellas would have done better than Castor.

Pinellas would not have done as well in Central Floria and would have lost more badly in North Florida. He would have done better in South Florida, but that's already heavily Democratic and wouldn't have made up for more votes from the I-4 corridor.

Believe me, I know that the seat held by Bob Graham since 1986 is now in the hands of a homophobic republican, but running Alex Pinellas instead of Betty Castor wouldn't have changed that.

[hannah]

14. In Jeb's World

Democrats vote touchscreen. No paper trail. No fingerprints. As long as Jeb is Gov., with his pinched faced Secretary of State Glenda Hood, No Dem will win.

[venus]

10. I think we did the right thing by sending Elian back to his

FATHER. Sometimes it takes balls and a political price may have to be paid for it. Just look at us now. Kerry supported unpopular positions and paid the highest political price. By the way just heard on NPR that Hispanics supported Bush in even larger numbers than before. So tell me, what did we get for our pandering - nothing. Even Kerry speaking fluent Spanish did not bring in that valuable voting block. Was it moral values or just the "Elian" issue I wonder. Aren't most Hispanics Catholic?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. the elian issue would have affected the 00 election and it did in fl...

yeah, chimpy got 40% of the Hispanic vote.....

another thing to celebrate...

[eriffle]

12. I disagree

Hispanics went to Bush for two reasons. First, a large portion have been able to move upward through entrepreneurship. These people favor Bush because they're the gimme gimme crowd and want to get away with paying as little taxes as possible. Secondly, the big moral issues thing. Hispanics are not just predominantly Catholic, they're conservative Catholics. Catholics here have a liberal slant to them because of the anti-Catholic sentiment that exists in the US. Hispanics have not seen this sentiment and if they have probably think it is due to their heritage and not their faith. Anyway, so hispanics are begining to side with Republicans over the "baby killers" and "queer lovers". Florida used to be a state that could be considered a possible Blue state, but unfortunatly as Hispanics begin to side with the Republicans over "moral issues" Florida will be red for years to come.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. I Live In Florida...

I would suspect most Hispanics are working class....


In fact research suggests they are economic liberals and social conservatives...


Their economic liberalism draws them to the Democratic party and their social conservatism drives them away....


Yes, Cuban Hispanics are sui generis.... They are entrepreneurial oriented ....

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

15. Betty Castor also conceded before all the votes were counted.

I read on yahoo that 250,000 were still left to count. I'm not sure what that's all about.

"The former housing secretary held a lead of 79,067 votes out of more than 7.1 million counted in the race to replace retiring Democratic Sen. Bob Graham (news, bio, voting record). As many as 250,000 ballots had yet to be counted, but Castor said she didn't think she could gain enough votes."

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_el_se/eln_florida_senate_4

Why would she do this? I don't understand. Why did the democrats give up with out a fight? I don't think the republicans would have given up so easily.