Democrats MUST Take back "Values"

[liberalpragmatist]

Clearly, we can't move to the right socially. What we are going to have to do is stress "true compassion" and "true American values." True compassion means zealously arguing the American-ness of tolerance and acceptance. True American values means stressing patriotism, individual liberty, and fairness - those are the values that fueled the American Revolution.

Basically, what I'm saying is that we can't win unless we make a dent in those voting on morals and values. We should continue to be tolerant to religion, but realistically, we're not going to take a majority of evangelical votes b/c we don't have that cultural intolernace. We can't abandon our positions on gay rights, civil rights, women's rights. What we need therefore is to stress Patriotism and American-ness. I know it sounds jingoistic, but reclaiming the flag for the left could go a long way to winning over independents and at least enough "values"-oriented voters to win.

[WI_DEM]

1. Ok, I value equal rights for all people

regardless of race, sex, creed or sexual orientation. How's that for standing up for values? and if the fundamentalists can't live with it. Fuck 'em.

[liberalpragmatist]

2. um, did I ever say NOT to stand up for those rights?

my point is shifting the debate from religion to patriotism and taking back the flag, which we can do without sacrificing our values on race, sex, creed, and sexual orientation.

[MissB]

3. Values, as Lakoff describes.

You are right.

[Sara Beverley]

4. You mean we must become hypocrites? Like the RW funddies.

They "use" values. Look at their lives and what they do and how they treat other people. They are not Chrisitians. They accept a liar in the WH, cheating, corporate thieves, baby killers (as long as they don't kill fetuses), they don't love their neighbors only if they look like them. These are the people who not long ago were supporting the killers of little girls in a church for God's sake. What do you mean we must take back "values." We never gave them up!

[liberalpragmatist]

5. But nobody believes us

Of course we're more moral about the other side! What's moral about ANYTHING the right has ever done?! but that's not the point - american aren't seeing it. We have to stress how WE are the true patriots, we're the ones standing up for true american values. We aren't doing that. We're assuming people will see that for themselves, and they're not. We can't win unless we do better among people for whom "values" is the big thing.

[MissB]

6. Have you read Lakoff's book?

You're certainly sounding like you have. :hi:

[asjr]

8. Right on! We didn't lose this election. It was STOLEN!

We have more values than any fundie around. They have their particular set of "values" which basically are as unChristian as you can get. Especially when they think everyone but them are going to hell. When I refer to "fundie" I mean the fire and brimstone kind. That is who Shrub caters to. Now that he has a rerun on the agenda he will leave those in the lurch because he knows he can.

[atreides1]

7. Bull

Morals like Guiliani, values like Bush lying about why the country had to go to war.

No thanks, if these are morals and values to the right then I don't want them.

Patriotism, individual liberty, fairness, have nothing to do with their definition of morals or values. Their morals and values are based on their intolerant religious beliefs, racism, and warmongering.


With these people patriotism becomes nationalism, individual liberty is a liberal concept, and fairness to them is "your with us or against us".

They don't care about what fueled the first American Revolution, they only want what their narrow minds view as what is good for the country.

[Zookeeper]

9. "Moral Values"

The pundits started repeating that last night when it looked like Bush would win. I find it very transparent and a warped use of the words. It's a euphemism for being anti-gay and against the separation of church and state. The media is using the term to hide the ugliness behind it.

[RinaJ]

10. They can start with changing the way they treat African-Americans

We've got lots of issues. We get hurt the worst by Republican policies, but the Democrats don't show how in a way that the average African American understands. Believe me, though most of the African Americans I know voted for Kerry, they didn't necessarily believe in him or the Democratic party, they simply disliked Bush. Overall, they don't see much difference between the parties.

Don't talk about the environment, talk about the state of our neighborhoods in many places. Then, go beyond the talk and put in place local programs to help us keep our own neighborhoods the way we want them. Don't just show up in our churces come election time, or use statistics about us for stump speeches.

Don't come at us with depriving us of abortion rights. Sorry to the more militant activists, but this is a troubling issue among conservative Blacks, and may be the chink that causes a few to drift towards the Republican party, which is all it takes. Instead, address sexual education in our neighborhoods, get involved with young women and men before they become sexually active at a young age, educate them on ALL options available to them.