referring to Mary Cheney

[onenote]

I know I'm gonna get beat up for this, but at least hear me out.

I wish JK had not mentioned Mary Cheney in his response. Not because Mary Cheney's sexual orientation is a secret or not an appropriate topic of discourse in the appropriate context. For example, I would have been completely at ease if JK had said something like I don't think my marriage, or anyone else's marriage is threatened by according people like Mary Cheney and her partner, or other gay and lesbian couples, rights equivalent to those given to me and Teresa.

But where I think JK went astray is in using Mary Cheney to answer the question about whether being gay is a choice or not. I believe -- I know -- that its not a choice. But for JK to say "if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as" is presumptuous. JK cannot and should not speak for Mary Cheney unless he could say he's discussed this issue with her and knows her view. Maybe (probably) Mary does hold the view ascribed to her by JK, but I think it was a mistake for him to suggest that he knows what she thinks.

Moreover, it was unnecessary. He could've made the point that being gay isn't a matter of choice without citing any individual, or by using someone he knows personally. There is an unwritten rule in politics that candidates can talk about their own children, but you don't talk about your opponent's children.

Now, in the great scheme of things, while I think JK would've been better off not mentioning Mary, it substantively is not a big deal. But what it is, is a distraction. If he hadn't said anything, there would be much more focus on Bush's numerous lies, particularly his bullshit lie about his Osama statement. As it is, that point is getting the play it should. And, finally, while mentioning Mary isnt going to cost JK votes among the gay community or those who strongly in gay rights, I worry that it may make some "soccer mom" types uncomfortable, if they translate the controversy into the idea that it overstepped some fuzzy line for a political candidate to convey the impression that he knows what another candidate's child thinks or feels.

My two cents. I'm open to hearing what others think.

onenote

[Vincardog]

1. You miss the point He was using the Fundies own bigotry against them.

The homophobes and Zelots in the church of Bush will run like mad from the knowlege that they are voting for someone with ANY connection to a G/L. Kerry drove a dagger into the heart of the Moral Majority.

[calmblueocean]

2. You're right: it is a distraction

And if Bush wins, it'll be because liberals were too willing to be distracted by right wing misdirections instead of staying on message.

[newyawker99]

8. Hi calmblueocean!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[2Design]

3. the question was - is being gay a choice

the answer was perfect

fundies want to believe it is a choice
kerry said She was Born that way

that is what is p*** them off

they have not accepted gays are born that way

kerry gets it
they don't

I thought it was a great shining moment of acceptance

[onenote]

5. It would've been better

in my opinion if he had said "I don't think a choice. I think if you are gay it is part of who you are, who God made you. I think that its who Mary Cheney is, I think its who Barney Frank is, I think its who (fill in the blank) is...

Its saying "Mary would tell you" that bothers me. Right message, wrong delivery.

onenote

[WI_DEM]

4. I agree with you

He did presume to speak for her and that turned some people off. If it didn't would we be spending so much time on DU on this subject? it is a shame too because Bush told another bald faced lie about never saying that he never said he didn't spend alot of time worrying about Bin-Laden. That should be the issue, not Mary Cheney.

[lancdem]

7. I think the media picked up on that bin Laden lie right away

last night.

[Dhalgren]

6. I think it was a way for him (Kerry) to point out that unlike

most reasonable parents, the Bush bunch do not support their children in who their children are. It is like when Bush made the little "joke" about putting his girls on a leash, it just doesn't sound like a supportive sort of relationship. I think that although the statement by Kerry can certainly be construed as a snide reminder to all the fundies that their God-given VP has a hell-bound daughter, it is also a reminder to everyone that these people will sell out their own children for a vote...

[sangh0]

9. Why are you talking about lesbians, when bush* said he forgot about OBL?

Whenever someone mentions something about a lesbian to you, start talking about how bush* forgot about how he forgot about OBL. Don't talk about Mary Cheney. There's no votes in that. Talk about how bush* denied that he said he didn't think about OBL very much.

[wadestock]

10. It's going to be exploited big time.....

One very bad sign....at lunch today my wife said it was a low blow.
Then I overheard several others mention it too. It has the ability to resonate at this point. Yes, in fact the comment should be taken as essentially meaningless...but we don't live in such a world anymore.

Kerry's main suit should have been the high ground.

Edwards did infinitely better, and it's baffling why they just didn't leave it at that. I really hope that Kerry wasn't trying to equal him.