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Is this true? Heinz exemption is oursourcing bill

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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:54 PM
Original message
Is this true? Heinz exemption is oursourcing bill
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/10/editorial_ralph.html
'Outsourcing' good for our economy

Tax legislation proposed in the Senate by Kerry last year was designed to crack down on companies doing business overseas, but the proposal had one giant loophole: an exemption for H.J. Heinz, the source of his wife's vast fortune.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sounds like a lie to me (nt)
nt
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. Note that he doesn't name the bill.
Also, US Senate legislation doesn't mention specific companies, as far as I've seen.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Heinz is an international company
Always has been.
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cheshire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. She no longer owns the Heinz Co. Period.
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. She never owned the company
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. So motherfucking what?
She has no controlling interest(or much interest at all...) in the company and The Heinz Family not had such for years. Where is the loophole? In an amendment? Who introduced the amendment?

Yada yada yada...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. I doubt it, for several reasons:
First Teresa no longer holds a significant amount of Heinz stock. The trust she inherited from her first husband sold almost all of its Heinz stock a number of years ago -- it now holds only about 4%, far from a controlling interest. Teresa has absolutely no control over or involvement in the company. Furthermore, Heinz, like Coca-Cola, sells about 60% of its output overseas, so strictly speaking it does not "outsource," but instead manufactures products in other countries for local consumption. It is quite possible there is an expemtion for companies who make stuff overseas that is intended for consumption overseas. There is more information about this at http://www.snopes.com/kerry/heinz.asp -- posted in response to false freeper e-mail rumors that Teresa owned and controlled Heinz. Actually, Heinz still donates mainly to Republicans.
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Barney Rocks Donating Member (746 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. Heinz has
ALWAYS been an international company--and Teresa does not control or run it.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
9. One word: Enquirer.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. It's not the National Enquirer - It's a local Cinci paper
Right?
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. Media Lies Daily.
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. This was a Your Voices column in the Cincinnati Enquirer
Reader's who submit columns get 1000 words. My concern is these opinion pieces are not fact checked.

That's why I seek DU help to debunk.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Its an international company isn't it
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. Couldn't be true because according to the Bushistas
Kerry has never introduced a bill, never done anything but raise taxes and loaf around wind surfing and skiing and sailing and dating and marrying beautiful rich women, and demonstrating against the VN war 500 years ago and hanging out with Jane Fonda on stage and arguing with John O'Neill, and faking wounds that he didn't get in that damn war 500 years ago!!! Oh, I forgot...he rescued his daughter's hamster and administered CPR!

Now, what is the resume of the chimp?
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
12. Take it for what it's worth.
It's an editorial written in one of the most right-wing newspapers in Ohio, the Cincinnati Enquirer; some of the most conservative people I've ever met live in Cincinnati.

There may be some shred of legitimacy to what the guy claims, but it's been my experience Cincinnati conservatives are excellent at blowing them out of proportion, then not admitting they lied or deceived by proportion.

Ralph E. Patsfall, the author of the editorial, works for General Electric as a metallurgist and process engineer. GE probably outsources some indecent number of jobs, so he's really blowing off to try to get the attention away from the jobs his employer has blown out of the country. I suggest anybody who's interested run his name on Google -- type in (double-quote)Ralph E Patsfall(double-quote) and have a look at the other editorial letters he's written.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. I must concur
that there is likely an element of truth here. My guess is that the loophole for Heinz is probably not exclusively for Heinz - if it named them specifically I am sure it would be getting much more press since Kerry says he is against outsourcing. But politics is politics, kids, and these things happen on both sides of the ring.
This is where I close my eyes and say "Anybody but Bush, Anybody but Bush"...
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Philostopher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. One thing I do know about Heinz.
They build their factories in the countries where product is sold, as close to agricultural locations as possible. There are a couple of Heinz plants up in the Ontario 'tomato belt' -- they do this so that product can be harvested, made and canned immediately, so it's fresher on the store shelves.

This may be what the guy is referring to -- but it makes sense that companies like Heinz, Birdseye, etc. would do this. Maybe there was a loophole for such corporations -- but it's not like it's not done the way it's done for a reason. Most of the wineries in the world are also in the grape farming regions -- does this dork want the grapes to be shipped six hundred miles or another country away by truck?
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #12
29. call Ray Cooklis to complain 513-768-8525 rcooklis@enquirer.com
Call Ray Cooklis at 513-768-8525 rcooklis@enquirer.com

Your Voices columns are obviously not fact checked.

demand a retraction!
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Robert Oak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
15. This article is a complete lie
and on top of it, he is trying to confuse the issue.

Offshore outsourcing is shipping jobs offshore and turning around
and having the results come back into the US as imports for sale
in the United States.

The Heinz company is more of a global company, with processing plants
as well as markets around the world. They are not what offshore outsourcing is about.

Offshore outsourcing is talking about manufacturing and professional service companies moving to India and China, firing Americans and bringing the exact same product they used to make domestically,
now coming into as a import into the United States. Another example
is our state and federal governments using our tax dollars to not hire
American citizens, but instead send the work outside the United States
even though the work results should be assisting our government operations.

His example of 200 years ago is spurious and has nothing to do with
what is the problem today. In fact, that is what makes this situation
unprecedented in world history....never before in the history of the world can the "goods of production" be so mobile. Basically the Internet turns any "brain work" into a digital signal and now any analysis or white collar work can be done in a foreign land and shipped back to the United states in a nanosecond via the Internet.


This article is complete multinational corporate propaganda. His "insourcing" example tries to negate the reason Honda employees US workers.

In the 1980's Reagan put a quota (yes, a word of sacrilege among free traitors (traders) and their religious elogy)

So, Honda and Toyota et al. had no choice but to start building plants and hire US workers in order to sell cars in the United States (much like China demands from US companies today in order to trade with them). This action saved the big 3 auto industry and has become ironic...for while the big 3 basically are Benedict arnolds...due to quotas Japanese companies are more American.

Our trade deficit is at a historical record and unfortunately multinationals try to repress the true number of jobs outsourced
and no one tries to tally the number of jobs that normally would have been created in the US that instead...are created in 3rd world countries where the educational level is the same, yet the PPI ratio
puts us at an enormous disadvantage.

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olddem43 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. I saw that article also, and I thought it was a lie. - The Enquirer
never checks the facts on anything that is submitted by anyone. Even obvious mistakes and lies are overlooked or rather ignored. The Enquirer is a RW piece of fishwrap and this kind of crap is what you can expect from them.
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fknobbit Donating Member (479 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. Snopes killed this rumor months ago
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Verdict is in. Thanks for clearing it up!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #17
28. Please send your complaints to rcooklis@enquirer.com
Call Ray Cooklis at 513-768-8525 rcooklis@enquirer.com

Your Voices columns are obviously not fact checked.

demand a retraction!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
18. I keep getting this BS in emails..and I keep sending out the
snopes page (above). how boring
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eriffle Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
21. This is RW fud
Hannity has been talking about this for ages, my girlfriend recieved right wing spam the other day, well it wasn't spam, it was from her family....same diffenence ;o) Anyway, I wrote back a fairly good and long response to it and I'll paste it below. To debunk part of the article posted above, which I address in theory below Honda, Toyota, Subaru, BMW, and other car manufactureres that the article lists are exporting very little of the goods produced in the USA out of North America.

Here's the response I sent out.
Outsourcing in general means having someone else do a job that used to be done in house. There is more to this however. The problem of outsourcing that our country has faced that is really a direct slap in the face of all working Americans is when a corporation in order to boost profit margins moves jobs outside of the country that American consumers still peruse. An example of this is you buy a computer from Dell, an American company, and it breaks. Well you, as an American, call tech support and get an English speaker in India. Now, Dell sells computers in India as well as other countries, and if the consumers of India were to call an tech support center in India that would be one thing, because the people of India are serving the people of India. The problem lies when the people of a foreign country are serving people of a different country. See, the people of India can speak english, how many Americans can speak Punjab? So, that is outsourcing as it is known today, the moving of jobs that still serve America overseas. Now, quickly, go to your refridgerator and look on the label of that bottle of Heinz ketchup you have. What does it say? It is bottled in Pittsburgh if you live in the Northeast or Mid-Atlantic. The people of Tennessee who are reading this may say another location, but it is still in the USA. How may Heinz ketcup bottles have you seen that says Hecho en Mexico? See the subsidiaries of the Heinz corporation that are located in foreign countries are serving foreign countries. Why? Well, first off we all know Heinz makes ketcup, but as I visited Germany this past May they sell a lot of other canned fruit and vegetable products in other countries. A Heinz factory located in the USA just can not realisitically make guava jelly or traditional German saurkraut due to regional differences in the perishable raw materials that go into their products. Some foreign aimed Heinz products may be made overseas and sold here, but also USA made and bottled Heinz ketchup is also sold in foreign countries. There is a strong American value of civic duty in this country. Why should this civic duty end with private citizens and not be expanded into the corporate realm? If you want your product to be a smash hit in a community you need to eventually give back to the community. People have to want your product on several different levels, and if they can personally relate to it it helps your product. A prime example of giving back to the community of your customers is the Toyota Motor Manufacturing plant outside of Huntington, WV. The number of Toyota trucks and cars in southern West Virginia went through the roof after the opening. I was a Toyota salesman, and I can gladly attest to this fact. See, Toyota, a Japanese Company, opened a factory in America to serve it's American customers. Everyone won. Toyota got more sales, higher profit margin from lower cost of production, and the people of southern West Virginia got a big boost in the economy from the investment and the jobs. The Heinz corporation as a business move is not only offering more local aimed products in these foreign markets, but also giving these foreign markets jobs which helps further their economic growth. Another misconception in your email, just because John Kerry's wife's name used to be Heinz does not mean she, nor Senator Kerry, have any control over the operations of where the Heinz corporation does their business. Mr and Mrs. Kerry are merely stockholders in a corporation which is run by a board of directors which does not include Mr or Mrs. Kerry. Just because someone owns stock in a corporation does not give them a conflict of intrest as given by example of Vice President Cheney who has recieved compensation from Haliburton while holding office. President Bush on the other hand has complete control over the United States military as their commander-and-chief and he did outsource the jobof capturing Osama Bin Laden to a bunch of Afghan thugs and warlords to capture the man who killed over 3,000 people on 9/11/2001. President Bush tied the hands behind the back of America's finest and did not allow them to do the job that they were sent to do. President Bush's party having control over both houses of congress has revised the tax code four times in four years and has not raised a finger to stop the outsourcing of American jobs that still serve Americans or close tax loopholes. According to a New York Times article a week ago there is a very large tax hole in America by corporations. 28 of the most profitable corporations in America have not had to pay taxes in the past three years. I would like everyone to think how great it would be if you or I could make a few million dollars each year and not pay a penny in taxes
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LiberalFighter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
23. All one has to do is search thomas for all bills that Kerry has introduced
Since the letter writer did not provide the bill number it is unlikely that it is true.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Something like less than 3% of Heinz-Kerry's total wealth is Heinz stock.
Alll the money she has came from Heinz Ketchup. But very little of her wealth has any connection to the fortunes or misfortunes of Heinz Inc.
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VLC98 Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-10-04 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
26. This particular lie infuriates me!
As an English person living in the States I have to do without some of my favorite foods that are made by Heinz, which I believe has been producing and selling foods in the UK for about a century. (I bet most British people think Heinz is a British company). On top of ketchup they make baked beans, probably the top seller there and everyone will tell you "beanz meanz Heinz"; curried beans, beans with vegetarian sausages (my favorite!), "salad cream" which unrefined people like me put on our chips (fries) and they sell more soup than any other company. Their vegetable soup is ten times better than any soup I've had here. Now I'm feeling really homesick!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. call Ray Cooklis to complain 513-768-8525
call Ray Cooklis to complain 513-768-8525 rcooklis@enquirer.com
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. call Ray Cooklis to complain 513-768-8525 rcooklis@enquirer.com
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/10/editorial_ralph.html

I can't, I work there. Please DUers we must not let this lie stand!
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. Please DUers at least send an email to complain about this lie!
rcooklis@enquirer.com

Regarding the blatant partisan lie in this Your Voices column regarding Heinz and Tax legislation proposed in the Senate by Kerry last year.

Demand that the paper start fact checking Your Voices columns.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/10/editorial_ralph.html

The H.J. Heinz Co., employs more than half of its workers "offshore." It has plants all over the world and a political agenda that is not always straightforward. Tax legislation proposed in the Senate by Kerry last year was designed to crack down on companies doing business overseas, but the proposal had one giant loophole: an exemption for H.J. Heinz, the source of his wife's vast fortune.


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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. call Ralph Patsfall at 513-561-6188
to complain about his blatant lies.

Harrass this Ahole!
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. British food can be bought online.
The link below offers several Heinz products--even Spotted Dick....



http://store.yahoo.com/englishteastore/index.html

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VLC98 Donating Member (398 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Thanks Bridget....
I have purchased British food online, (not spotted dick I might add), on a few occasions but it certainly isn't cheap. I really feel for people who had to live with rationing in wartime!
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