Why was the Pentagon allowed to burn until the next day?

[DoYouEverWonder]

What is wrong with this picture?



The building has already collapsed, so this shot is from later in the day. There are only 3 fire trucks on the scene. The two green trucks which earlier had been running water lines, are sitting idle. There is a fire raging over on the left, yet there is no attempt being made to put it out.

In the meantime, it is alleged that a passenger jet has crashed into the PENTAGON and there may or may not be survivors.

What happened? Did they run out of water and foam?

[DrDebug]

1. Putting the fires out was not a top priority

They had to go start a war in Afghanistan and see if they could blame it on Saddam.

[hack89]

2. Here is a good place to start ..

http://www.911investigations.net/IMG/pdf/doc-1004.pdf?PHPSESSID=9d9c52f0d14a9768774d8f58f927eb45

[Grateful for Hope]

3. Link is not working for me. n/t

[mirandapriestly]

8. an excerpt

"The success of the ACFD reposnse to the terrorist attack on the Pentagon did not happen by chance. The AFCD's preparedness was the result of yerars of hard work , sound organization, and outstanding leadership."

ooh, yeah, I'm going to believe every word of that!

[leftofthedial]

4. the script did not rely on them putting out the fire

why waste water?

[hpot]

5. Maybe there was something more hazardous than jet fuel

"Burning uranium is hard to extinguish, and if doused with water, it will explode."

http://www.projectcensored.org/publications/2005/4.html

[mirandapriestly]

7. The radiation readings were really high afterwards

Leuren Moret , a radiation expert was interviewed in Loose Change and she thought they could have used a missile with a depleted uranium warhead .

[Jazz2006]

9. Even CTers know that Loose Change is a crock of shit, though.....

haven't you noticed?

[quickesst]

20. You're telling....

cters that LC2 is a crock of shit because even cters know that? That being the case, why state it? You know, if they already know it. :rofl: How, uh, profound.:boring: Thanks for the morning chuckle Jazz.
quickesst

[Jazz2006]

30. Er, no.

I'm saying that Loose Change is a crock of shit and always has been, and that even most CTers have eventually come around to recognizing that. There are, of course, a few diehard CTers who still cite it as authoritative, but those few are clearly in the "more deeply deluded that the others" category among the various CT categories.

Chuckle away.

[mirandapriestly]

32. There was a specific woman on it

Her quotes can be found online. Please stop stalking me with your uneducated ...duh...posts.

[Jazz2006]

44. Stop flattering yourself.

I've never stalked anyone but if I ever did, you would hardly be worthy of any such efforts on my part.

The fact is that "Loose Change" is a crock of shit, and that's quite apparent even to tinhatters.

Here's a hint: Message/messenger.

Deal with it.

[mirandapriestly]

6. Here is an civilian fire fire fighter

Recounting that day. He is not in doubt of the official story or anything, but you can see there were some pretty big obstacles put up to fighting the fire, it's obvious they didn't want it to go out
http://pentagon.spacelist.org/

Why did they not want the fire to go out? Maybe because of all the budget analysts, financial directors who were in that section..(missing trillion)

http://www.insightmag.com/main.cfm/include/detail/story...

Of course the Department of the Army, headed by former Enron executive Thomas White,
had an excuse. In a shocking appeal to sentiment it says it didn't publish a
"stand-alone" financial statement for 2001 because of "the LOSS OF FINANCIAL-MANAGEMENT
PERSONNEL sustained during the Sept. 11 terrorist attack."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=90471#91992

[Jazz2006]

10. "they didn't want the fire to go out"

Riiiiggght.

It appears that some extra strength tin foil is in order.

[LARED]

13. missing trillion

If the Pentagon was attacked to cover up missing trillions (actually unaccounted for trillions) it would have been attacked about 40 years ago.

[BuddyYoung]

27. "Missing trillion" is disinformation. nt

nt

[mirandapriestly]

34. That's ridiculous.nt

[mirandapriestly]

37. sorry if I sounded rude

why do you think it is disinformation, I hadn't heard that.

[mirandapriestly]

33. Oh really?

can you dig up some info on that, I seem to have missed it.

[LARED]

11. Maybe your picture is not showimg all;

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. I guess eventually someone showed up

and put that particular fire out. No way to know how long took to get aroind to it, but eventually they got there.

Now here's a pic taken that night, so obviously this at least 10-12 hours after the attack. You can see new fires burning in at least 3 different spots. This shouldn't be happening at this point. Not if they had put enough equipment on the fire. I've never seen firemen leave the scene of a fire without making sure every last damn spark was out, even if they have to destroy half the place in the process. Yet for the entire day, I've never seen more then 3 firetrucks at any one time fighting the fire and I've only seen one picture where they had actually had 3 lines working at the same time. Most pics show two lines and even no lines, like the first pic that I posted. It's not like this was some empty warehouse and it didn't matter if it kept burning. We are talking potential massive casualties and no one seems to be in a hurry to stop the fire in order to get people into the burnt sections to attempt a rescue. Why?

[greyl]

18. Why do you think there are people in the burning sections? nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. I would assume

that the 188 people who died and the 76 people that were injured were in the burning sections of the building. Or did all those people just spontaneously combust at the local golf course?

Of course, there would be no way to know if there were victims who had not been rescued or recovered until the fires were out and complete search could be completed.

The better question is how did they know that there weren't survivors in the sections being allowed to burn?

[LARED]

24. This shouldn't be happening at this point.

How do you know that? The Pentagon is the largest office building in the world. Part of it has collapsed after having a jet impact it, and you're having some dark weaved fantasy that something is amiss because all the fires are not contained yet.

Just curious. Do you have any experience fighting fires? Do you have any experience as an emergency responder, or do you just find crap you are ignorant about and make up mysteries.

[DoYouEverWonder]

25. According to the report put out by Arlington County

In summary, the response to the September 11 terrorist attack on the Pentagon was successful by any measure. Although the tragic loss of life from this horrific event could not be avoided, it was minimized. Had it not been for the heroic actions of the response force and the military and civilian occupants of the Pentagon, clearly the number of victims would have been much higher. Damage, although severe, was constrained in area and the fire was brought quickly under control.

http://www.911investigations.net/IMG/pdf/doc-1004.pdf?PHPSESSID=9d9c52f0d14a9768774d8f58f927eb45


They claim the fire was brought quickly under control. Three fires burning through the roof 12 hours later is not under control. Despite the size of the building accessablility wasn't much of an issue. It's not a tall building and in a city the size of DC, they could have brought in more equipment to fight the fire to put it out quicker. The Pentagon was a 2 alarm fire, why didn't they go to 3 alarms or even 4 alarms? Given the importance of the site and the fact that there may be survivors, you would think they would have spared a few more firetrucks?

[LARED]

28. I'm not a fireman

But I do know that having a fire under control is entirely different than having fires extinguished. Stop trying to make mountains out of stupid stuff.

[greyl]

12. Holy crap!

It looks like a damn jumbo jet hit that building!

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. This is not what this thread is about

This thread is about the response to the attack, or apparent lack of response.

[greyl]

16. Your question has been answered.

You need to look at more than one picture.

[DoYouEverWonder]

17. I've looked at every picture I can get my hands on

Maybe you need to open your eyes?

All press reports say the Pentagon was still burning the next day. This is not normal in a fire where firetrucks have easy access to the site, especially when they bring in foam trucks from an airport. Unlike water, the foam puts the fire almost instantly. Yet, that night there are at least three significant fires that we can see burning and again it apears there are no lines running to try to put them out.

[greyl]

19. What's your response to post #2? nt

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. I'm trying to wade through it

but they disabled the enlarge function and the select function so its a little hard to read and impossible to select sections to bring here to discuss. Maybe you can point to a particular page or section you think is significant?

[mirandapriestly]

36. Have you seen Pentagon Research?

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/fireresponse.html
It is a very good site. they have links to a bunch of "official" sites, too, fwiw.

[DoYouEverWonder]

23. Scratch my comments

about the enlarge and select functions, I finally found them.

[greyl]

29. and? nt

[gbwarming]

26. That photo may hav been taken during an evacuation

page A-16 of the Arlington county report you linked (edit: in post 25) may explain why there are so few firefighters n the picture:

"During the first 24 hours, it was necessary to evacuate the Pentagon on four
separate occasions because of the risk of structural collapse or the threat of
additional terrorist attacks. It is difficult to measure the full impact of repeated building evacuations, but it was clearly negative and significant. Each time an evacuation was ordered, firefighters interrupted operations, abandoned equipment, shut off hoses, and ran several hundred yards to protected areas. From there, they had to watch as flames reclaimed the parts of the Pentagon they had just evacuated. On-site emergency medical care of injured victims was also affected and some patients were sent immediately to area hospitals before a complete on-site medical assessment."

And the roof fires according to the link you provided was difficult to fight, so perhaps it was not reasonable for the fire to be entirely extinguished within a couple of hours:

"Teams of firefighters assigned suppression work on the Pentagon roof had
difficulty finding access points from the fifth floor. Neither building engineers nor
detailed structural drawings were available to assist them at that location.
Captain Robert Swarthout, Incident Safety Officer at the ICP, was in contact with
a Pentagon engineer, but that resource was not accessible at the point of fire
attack. Firefighters eventually climbed onto a ledge from a fifth-floor window
then hoisted themselves onto the roof. Attacking the fire on the roof was
particularly difficult. The thick wood-plank inner layer burned out of control,
protected by a layer of concrete below and a thick slate roof above. Firefighters
cut trenches across the slate roof. It was physically demanding and involved a
certain degree of guesswork to breach the roof ahead of a fire that could not be
seen. On the second day, September 12, a military representative pointed out to
Battalion Chief Randy Gray, the Incident Command Operations Section Chief, the
locations of two key communications and operations facilities threatened by the
roof fire. The fire was stopped short of those facilities."

And according to that report there was some problem getting equipment to where it was needed:

Height restrictions limited equipment access along A-E Drive into the Center
Courtyard. Eventually, the tiller cab had to be cut off of an ACFD ladder truck so it could support the fire attack from inside the Center Courtyard.

edit:spelling

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. If the fire got into the roof

and was difficult to get to, why didn't they bring in more equipment and firemen? In every picture I've seen there's usually only
two lines of water running at anyone time.


Here's an interesting report from one of the firemen. From what I can get from this report is that a two alarm fire was called for the Pentagon and not until 1:00 PM did they even call a third alarm.

Shortly after the plane crashed into the Pentagon, the Arlington County Fire 1 Department requested aid from the District of Columbia (DC) Fire/EMS Department. Because the incident commander had a plane crash, building fire, terrorist attack, building collapse, and a crime scene all going on at once, the District dispatched a second alarm 2 assignment to the Pentagon, along with several EMS units. A little less than an hour later, Prince George's County Fire and EMS Department (PGFD) put out a call for all volunteer and career personnel to report to their stations. Being a volunteer firefighter with Greenbelt's Volunteer Fire Department and Rescue Squad for almost 6 years, I reported to my station. As units from DC were enroute to the Pentagon, the DC Fire Chief called back all DC fire personnel. The Chief also requested mutual aid from Prince George's and Montgomery Counties Fire Departments to fill in at stations in the Nation's Capital that were sent to the Pentagon. Shortly after 11:00 am, engines 3 from Greenbelt, Morningside, Kentland, and Branchville and a truck 4 from Cottage City were transferred into the District. Greenbelt's Chief, Assistant Chief, six other personnel, and I filled in at DC Engine 8 (1520 C Street) in southeast DC. Because we were not familiar with southeast DC, an officer from Station 8 rode with us on our engine. Shortly before 12:30 pm, we ran a hazardous materials call at a local high school. Enroute to the call, we could not help but wonder if this was part of the terrorist attack. We cleared the call almost 30 minutes later. Just after 1:00 pm, the DC Fire Department's Pentagon Command requested a third alarm. As we were heading back to Station 8 in the District, we were informed that we were being transferred to another DC fire station. Arriving at Station 8, we dropped off the officer who was riding with us. Just as we were about to leave, he ran out telling us that we were the first due on the third alarm at the Pentagon.

http://pentagon.spacelist.org/

So let me see if I get this right? We've got the Pentagon, probably the most important military complex in the country. We've got a hijacked passenger jet that's crashed into the building. We know we've got a large number of dead and injured and we would assume survivors that need immediate medical attention. Yet, this fire only goes to 2 alarms until the building collapses and it's not until much later that they go to a 3rd alarm?

It's not like there wasn't enough room on the beautiful Pentalawn to park a few more trucks. Or couldn't they find enough water to run more lines?

[bushatbooker]

31. This shot was taken on 9/11

not the day after.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. Yes, I know

However, there are numerous press reports that the fire persisted until the next day. Also further down the thread is a pic of at least 3 fires going at night.

[mirandapriestly]

35. Funny how "al qaeda" was able to evade

the most powerful, well funded military in the world but they didn't know better than to target the only steel & kevlar reinforced masonry walls and "blastproof" windows at the Pentagon. ;)

[LARED]

40. Funny how you conflate entirely different issues

in ways that imply they are related, but are quite illogical.

[BuddyYoung]

41. The point made is simple & logical. Maybe you should re-read it.

I don't see why any reasonable person would feel the need to try and diminish the important point MP made. UNLESS. Unless the point is exactly that: distract, diminish, duck, dodge, and otherwise fight the "good" fight to keep the lies alive.

[Bolo Boffin]

42. Self-delete - double post n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

43. What proof do you have that Wedge 1 was targeted?

Would you like to claim that the hijackers hit precisely the spot in Pennsylvania that they actually hit?

[greyl]

45. That's #3 on the list of Top 100 9/11CT Fallacies

#3 The planes were directed to precisely tiny intended targets. Huge buildings? What huge buildings?