Pentagon Strike

[Postman]

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/

Up until now I've tended to believe that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.

After watching this video and viewing the succession of still photographs that the Pentagon has released I'm starting to question what really hit the Pentagon.

Could it have been a Predator Drone laden with bombs? A Missile?

The "crime scene" evidence of a Boeing 757 is non-existent.

How could a 757 penetrate 3,4,5 rings into the Pentagon creating such neat, round, narrow holes?

[idgiehkt]

1. so then, what happened to the damn plane?

they one they said hit the Pentagon, I mean...

I'm starting to think Rove is really, really getting indicted tomorrow if they are desperate enough to feed us MIHOP for dinner tonight.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. Smashed into a million pieces....see photos inside (dial-up warning)....

<>

<>

The photo above was taken very soon after the impact. The burning debris appears to spread the length of the former wingspan of Flight 77. I can not identify any airplane parts from this view.

This picture was taken before the area above the impact point collapsed.

There is a mangled piece of metal in the foreground of this photo. I'd be greatly surprised if it didn't come from Flight 77.

Stretching back toward the Pentagon are what appears to pieces of the plane, and/or the Pentagon.

<>

The photo above was also taken before the collapse of the impacted area. Note all of the debris in front of the burning face of the imact area. IMHO, some, or most, of that debris has to have come from Flight 77.

JMHO.

[MervinFerd]

58. see these photos also...

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

BUT pics selected from the internet are poor evidence of anything. The REAL evidence is that hundreds or thousands of decent people were involved in the investigations, actually SAW the wreckage and the crash site and the bodies.

To claim that these people are lying or murderous conspirators is pathetic.

[meisje]

2. How does a piece of straw penetrate a telephone pole in a tornado?

[rman]

70. straw remains intact - where's the "straw" that hit the pentagon?

[originalpckelly]

3. Of course the real question is why those holes would be so large...

if a missile hit the Pentagon? Wouldn't the hole be the size of the missile? Well the size of that hole is just to large for a missile, in my opinion.

Question is also where those people would have gone, if not killed in the airplane crash?

Another question is why people have conspiracy theories for every thing that happens? Why can't we just accept that some really nutty and brainwashed people killed themselves and others? Is it because we want things to feel less random, or because we just don't trust the government, which I openly admit, isn't always deserved of trust?

The final question is whether anyone will ever take the Democratic party seriously with a bunch of people coming up with conspiracy theories right and left?

[MervinFerd]

5. Exactly right.

Please hit the alert button and urge the mods to remove this thread to the 9/11 dungeon.

[idgiehkt]

6. I think the theory doesn't have to do with what happened

it's whose version of what happened that is suspect, you know.

Why should someone trust them on this if we don't trust them on anything else. Especially since they have gained more for themselves with this one event than anything that has happened since, and, well, they kind of said that this is what it would take to get their goals accomplished, like way back in '96 or so. So what is the opposite of a conspiracy theorist...a 'coincidence theorist'?

[originalpckelly]

I think it is 50/50 Bush let Al-Qaeda hit the USA...

That I don't doubt for a moment. The choice is between his incompetence or his intention (consistent with PNAC) to go to war in Iraq.

We know he is supposed to have had intelligence saying airplanes were going to be hijacked, we just don't know if he was incompetent and didn't read it, or let the attacks happen.

In fact I would say every thing this President has done has an equal probability of incompetence or malignance.

[idgiehkt]

25. what about the "My Pet Goat" thing

that was kind of 'letting', in my book.

I don't think Bush was involved that much. I think Cheney was the King, and Bush at most is a pawn, or maybe a rook, at best.

[aquart]

9. Well, some people can't cope with a world in which

anyone other than the white people cause all effects.

And some of them can't admit that racism has anything to do with the theory that the white guys blew up the towers or the Pentagon, not those brownish nobodies.

Because if the evil white guys did it, somehow, some way, we're still in control.

But that's JMHO.

[readmoreoften]

18. right, believing the white guys did it is racist.

oh, next up... believing the brown guys did it is also racist.

the only way to remain non-racist is to believe the event never happened and that no one did it at all.

african-american? arab? it's just your internalized racism if you believe that the PNAC staged this event. :sarcasm:

[catnhatnh]

15. Hole size....

The question isn't why the hole is "bigger" that a missle-the question is why it is SMALLER than an airliner.....Want proof???Throw a 1" ball bearing through a rigid surface (say a pane of glass).Is the hole larger or smaller than 1"???Continue the experiment until you produce a hole smaller than the ball bearing....I won't hold my breath waiting...

[SPKrazy]

41. I Don't Think The Democratic Party Has Come Up With Any

conspiracy theories

This is Democratic Underground, not the democratic party.

And when the government doesn't answer questions that it should be able to answer, then people start asking why?

why are you so sure that there was no conspiracy??

I'm not a coincidence theorist.

Read up on 9/11 and then discuss "conspiracy theories"

Oh, and the right wing is full of conspiracies too.

Look at Clinton and the mass murder of hundreds of people per Jerry Falwell.

What about Waco and David Koresh? Not unique to dems or repukes

stick around and learn a little, you might even start to open your mind to the possibility that all is not as it is packaged to be.

[radio4progressives]

52. LOL!!

The final question is whether anyone will ever take the Democratic party seriously with a bunch of people coming up with conspiracy theories right and left?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Stolen Elections in 2000 : Just a Nutty Conspiracy Theory!

Stolen Elections in 2002 : Just a Nutty Conspiracy Theory!

Stolen Elections in 2004: Just a Nutty Conspiracy Theory!

Next Stolen elections in 2006 and 2008 : Just another Nutty Conspiracy Theory!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[MervinFerd]

4. Don't be silly.

This is proved about as conclusively as anything can be proved:

The plane and 64 passengers and crew have not been heard of since that day; radar tracked the plane to the Pentagon; numerous eyewitnesses saw the plane HIT the pentagon; numerous family members reported phone calls from their relatives aboard the plane

AND

Search crews recovered remains of all but one of the passengers and a substantial part of the aircraft.

It is simply false that ""crime scene" evidence of a Boeing 757 is non-existent".

This is proved beyond beyond a reasonable doubt.

Don't be a fool.

The plane was travelling at 350 mph and the video footage is about 1 frame per second. Do the Math. How much of the plane did you expect to see?

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Then show us the beef

because there is no proof that Flight 77 hit the Pentagon or anything else that day.

[originalpckelly]

16. Our entire way of thinking is not to assume anything, but to allow...

evidence to give us hints. We don't have a hypothesis and then try to prove or disprove it, we let the facts speak for themselves.

I do hope you know our party is going to look like fools. People are going to be afraid of electing people who are completely out of touch with reality. It is bad enough people are afraid of dying in a terrorist attack, let alone they think someone leading or who has major impact upon a party would not think there is anything to protect them from.

It changes someone to see the rubble or the wreckage of a terrorist attack. I now know for sure, that there are people in this world who are crazy enough to go blow themselves up. I didn't loose anyone on 9/11 and I have never been to New York, but I saw the remains of this bus from Israel, which was blown up by a suicide bomber. I knew then that the truth is that people want to go kill themselves, for whatever reason, and I will never, never forget how I changed the day I saw that bus. I knew there were little kids on the bus, and I knew that the bomber probably saw them. How the hell could someone blow up little kids?

So you can see, that while I may not have the experience of some people on this forum with terrorism, I do believe it is real.

I would kindly appreciate it if all you nutty conspiracy theorists would stop, you make us ALL look bad when you post this kind of crap. I know you don't trust anyone, but the truth is that terrorism is real. It is scary, but we must rise above the fear they instill in us because only then can we overcome their particular form of tyranny.

If anyone wants to make claims like the ones in this thread, go ahead, but you have got to have a HELL of a LOT of cold hard evidence, not just innuendo.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. You can keep your fear

I just want to know the truth.

And we will never know the truth unless we are willing to question all of it. The official story has more holes then swiss cheese. There is little of it that is even based in reality.

Maybe this attack hit a little closer to home for me then it did for you? I grew up in NYC and I know people that were there that day.

Yes, there are crazy people in the world who wrap themselves in bombs and blow people up. But the people who do that sort of thing are small potatoes compared to who and what was behind the 9-11 Attack. If you want to believe that some barely competent arabs with box cutters totally destroyed 3 major buildings, hit the Pentagon, and disintegrated 4 planes in one day, then I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to sell you.

[originalpckelly]

31. I'm not going to back down because I am sick of this...

Now I don't want to become engaged in a flame war or anything, but I do intend to be firm.

The conspiracy theory you and other people are advancing has many more holes than the conventional 9/11 attack theory.

1. What were those airplanes we all saw hit the towers?
2. Why would the people who planned the conspiracy use airplanes for the towers, yet not use an airplanes for Shanksville and the Pentagon?
3. Where did all the people go who were on the airplanes that hit the Pentagon?
4. Many have claimed the twin towers were brought down with a controlled demolition, why weren't there more explosives used?
5. How did explosives go unnoticed by the people in the towers?
6. Why didn't the people who supposedly blew up the towers, blow them both up at the same time?
7. 3,000 people were killed in the attacks, why wouldn't someone involved in the conspiracy, which would have to be massive, come forward out of conscience?

There are probably more questions than these few I thought up in a couple of minutes, why do these questions outnumber the conventional explanation, and why would someone think the conspiracy theory is more valid when it has far more unanswered questions to it?

[chrisbur]

37. I agree with both of you.

The terrorist attacks were carried out by brainwashed operatives from an organization called Al Qa eda headed by one Osama Bin Laden. But since the crusades of the middle ages the worlds power brokers have been using brainwashed Assassins to carry out their nefarious purposes, manipulate popular sentiment etc. The neo-cons and the Saudi royalty are allies.

Physically and logistically it happened pretty much like the official story.

Maybe. I'm not really sure. Isn't it sad that we can't be sure that our government has our best interest at heart? Growing up I was somehow confident that it would all turn out better than this.

[SPKrazy]

42. There You Go With "Our Party"

The Democratic party has no position on 9/11 other than what is the official story as far as I know.

Maybe you are aware of something else?

I wonder what you are trying so hard to say?

[originalpckelly]

44. No we don't have an official position to my best knowledge...

but I didn't say that. I did say (in one way or another) that we are going to look nuts or like a bunch of idiots.

That I am pretty confident in saying.

[SPKrazy]

50. So How Do You Confuse DU With How Democrats Look?

Only to Freepers do they look crazy, because freepers are crazy (I'm not calling you a freeper)

really only people who are interested ever see what's on DU about 9/11 usually, it is always relegated to the 9/11 forum. Lots of stuff there to see.

You did sure imply that Democrats look crazy, and as I said, there is no Democratic party position on 9/11 conspiracy theories. And Democrats aren't the only ones who think all is not right in the kingdom as far as the fishy smell coming out of the "official" story, the 9/11 commission, etc.

[MervinFerd]

24. DEAR GOD!! WHAT MORE PROOF COULD THERE BE!!!

[DoYouEverWonder]

26. An actual airplane

would be nice?

[MervinFerd]

27. They recovered large parts of it. YOU ARE MAKING A FOOL OF YOURSELF.

[Twist_U_Up]

28. mervin,mervin,mervin

please your embarrassing yourself

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Please show me pictures

of large parts that can positively be identified has Flight 77.

I know someone who was working at Boeing on the day of the attack. They were never able to recover enough debris from any of the four planes to even try to reconstruct a plane like they do in every other crash.

[kenny blankenship]

43. They recovered large amounts of it

large AMOUNTS.
Large parts on the other hand--meaning identifiable pieces and structures of welded together components that serve an identifiable function--that is a different matter.
They do have pictures of wheel hubs, landing struts, tire chunks, engine components, the odd piece of passenger seating--mostly the harder parts of the plane that typically survive highspeed impacts and are not only hard and dense but also unique enough to be easily identified. See pictures of Pentagon crash 757 parts here.
Unidentified twisted shattered pieces of structural aluminum and scraps of confetti like aircraft skin--they got truckloads of that, but there's not much to learn from it since it's so destroyed and scattered by the sheer violence of the impact and explosion.
There's more aluminum skin visible on the Pentagon lawn in well publicized photographs taken while the fires are still burning, just on the lawn not even counting all the debris inside, than would be required to skin 3 global hawk drones. And I doubt the Global Hawk even has a metal skin.

Welcome to DU don't let the moonbats get you down.

[DoYouEverWonder]

65. Then why didn't the NTSB

even attempt to reconstruct the plane, just like they do in every other crash?

[kenny blankenship]

67. Because the NTSB reconstructs planes to find out why they crashed

so that other planes won't fall prey to the same accident/malfunction; and in this case and in the case of the WTC crashes it's obvious that the crashes aren't accidents.

[diamondsndust]

14. do you have any pictures of the "substantial part" ...

of the aircraft, as stated in your post?

Thanks for weighing in.

[MervinFerd]

29. NO. I am not an NTSB investigator.

If there was no airplane, then HUNDREDS or THOUSANDS of investigators and rescue workers are lying.

[diamondsndust]

59. So you are making your assumptions on blind faith??

You admit you have seen NO pictures of a plane from the scene, yet you argue against pictures that clearly show otherwise. I'm no conspiracy theorist but there is no way in god's green earth I will ever believe it was a plane that hit the Pentagon unless I see with my own eyes a clear picture of that plane. Never!

One of the threads on here mentions an eyewitness saying that the supposed plane hit the ground before it hit the Pentagon. Why do all of the photos show no evidence of this? The grass outside the impact point is unscathed. Am I to believe that a 757, traveling at approximately 450 MPH (I've seen it reported anywhere from 350 to 600 MPH), hit the ground with no landing gear out, bouced back up in the air enough to become totally airborne again, still intact enough to penetrate 3 rings of the pentagon???

I'm sorry, I'm a reasonable, open minded, live and let live type of person myself, but I just cannot bring myself to believe this story.

This was a very traumatic event for a lot of eyewitnesses, and traumatic events can skewer your view on what you saw, or even just lived thru yourself. I know this from experience, after almost being killed in hurricane andrew, and having to dig my family out from under a collapsed wall. Luckily, they all survived also, but every one of us have different memories of what and how things happened, even for days afterwards. We were right in ground zero, in Florida City, Fla.

Traumatic times can bring on a lot of stress which can alter your thinking, or you could just become numb to things. I lost count of days, myself, but I was heavily involved in taking care of all the people that were in the motel with us. My father and I both brought grills with us for some reason. They came in very handy, as we cooked for and fed everyone there (about 100 people), plus offered food to the state troopers and the national guard when they arrived.

My point is, as has been stated by many others, is that you cannot trust everything you hear from someone who just went through a traumatic experience. I would be willing to bet that if questioned deeper, at least 75% of them would admit that when they saw something flash past them at 450 MPH, their first thought was "what the hell was that"!... then they heard on their car radio that a plane had just hit the pentagon.

I speak only for myself, but this is just MY belief and opinion and I not asking for anyone else to believe it nor endorse it.

PEACE

[Rainscents]

61. AMEN!!!

757 is...

W - 124 FT 10"

Long - 155FT 3"

Highth - 44 FT 6"

It Seats anywhere between 200-225, Pratt & Wittney Engines ( two large engines).

I don't care how fast this plane was going, it's way too big for not being able to capture it on the video.

[lonestarnot]

55. Where's the wing holes?

[Bushknew]

7. Why not release the gas or hotel video?

This "new" video is of the same angle that we’ve seen before.

BTW, I saw no plane hit the Pentagon either.

Boss! Where is Zee plane!

[ramblin_dave]

32. I want to see the hotel video, the one that

employees were reportedly watching over and over until the FBI showed up and snatched it.

[Rainscents]

62. Yup... FBI told them to keep their mouth shut!!!

[MervinFerd]

39. You won't see a plane there, either.

The video is about 1 frame per second. The plane was moving about 500 ft per second.

There is a streak visible in one frame. That is all you would expect.

If they had shown a plane, it would be evidence that they had faked it.

[Rainscents]

60. I don't give a shit how fast 757 was going... You can NOT miss the 757!!

This plane is HUGE!!! Size... 124 FT 10"" Wide 155FT 3" Long and 44FT 6" Hiighth. I have no idea where the hell you coming up with all these none sense shit! And another... Where the hell is all the SEATS on board of the airplane? 200 passenger seats??? If it was passenger planes, seats, HUGE wings, two HUGE engines should be on the ground... NAT-TA!!! Where the hell is it 757 ???

[kenny blankenship]

68. There is a little more than just a streak--not much, but very significant

Mostly all you can see is the streak of white smoke from the engine(s) which took damage from the light standards over the highway, (Flight 77 knocked six of them down or damaged them, on a dead straight pathway into the crash site). However, looking at the original security camera video you can definitely see the plane's vertical stabilizer above the white smoke. Looking at the frames that follow the one linked below, you see nothing that could correspond to that angular shape, therefore we should conclude that this shape was in motion, right to left, along with the trail of white smoke which clearly moves right to left and which appears to spew from the same body this shape is attached to. Smoke doesn't come from nowhere and that's a LOT of smoke. Unfortunately the post of the first gate blocks any view of the rest of the plane. The stabilizer though is enough to show that there is something BIG coming in.

Since the damage inside the building matches the pathway of damage over the highway, and since the smoke travels along that path and the tall angular shape appears connected to that smoke as part of a large body, and the damage inside the Pentagon as well as the debris showered all over the lawn indicates a large body struck the building, we should conclude that the angular shape is part of that body that hit the building. Since a Global Hawk drone would need to be stood on its nose or tail in order to present a shape of that length and since such an attitude of flight doesn't comport with the straight line of exhaust smoke moving from right to left in the above still as well as the rest of the frames of the "video" we can safely conclude that this was no Global Hawk. We can safely conclude, and in fact we are almost obliged to conclude, that the angular shape is just what it looks like: the vertical stabilizer of a large aircraft, such as the one many people reported seeing fly over the highway and strike the Pentagon.

[libertypirate]

8. Learn about PNAC here, who they are what they did and how

they pulled it off.

Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime

http://www.911podcasts.com/display.php?vid=92

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Welcome to the other side

[jdeetz1019]

12. I had a buddy that sat me down and

showed all this to me a year or so ago. The one thing I couldn't wrap my head around were, where were the wings? A neat hole into the wall, ok the fuselage might fit in there, but wouldn't the wings shear off from impact with the building? Where are the wings?

[kenny blankenship]

33. The wings blew apart into thousands of pieces

they are going 350Mph too, along with the 757 fuselage, straight into steel reinforced concrete. They aren't going to shear off and gently settle to earth. They're going to shatter to bits. What is supposed to slow them down and lessen the impact? A warm updraft?
fighter jet hits the wall
just watch this film of a controlled high speed crash. The plane has its wings on and the fuel tanks are loaded with water. Even though the wing span of the crashing plane is greater than the width of the barrier it's clear to see that the wings disintegrate just like the fuselage.
http://www.sandia.gov/news/resources/video-gallery/index.html
Look at the 3 high res photos of the F4 progressively disappearing under the force of a 400Mph+ impact.

That's where the wings went. A gazillion little scraps.

[understandinglife]

13. No picture of a plane. No parts of any plane. Period.

pro-Bu$h = Anti-America

[MervinFerd]

21. BULLSHIT. Many parts of plane. Many parts of bodies.....

Many eyewitnesses of plane hitting Pentagon. No other explanation of missing plane and passengers. RADAR records of plane flight. Family members who talked to their relatives before their deaths.

BULLSHIT.

Miserable stinking foul idiotic BULLSHIT.

[SPKrazy]

45. Calm Down Mervin

got any of those pics?

seen any of them?

show us

[MervinFerd]

56. Selected "Pics" aren't evidence of much of anything.

You can Google pics as well as I can. But try www.911myths.com for a start.

Look at the totality of the evidence.

The missing plane and passengers/no other explanation.
The testimony of family members who talked to passengers.
The testimony of eyewitnesses who saw a plane.
The testimony of rescue workers and investigators.
The conclusions of the NTSB and other legitimate agencies.
The complete incoherence of the story.

Either THOUSANDS of good people are lying about this, or that plane hit the Pentagon.

[MervinFerd]

57. Here look at these:

http://www.911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html

[SPKrazy]

46. self delete dupe

[Chomp]

17. EYEWITNESSES!

http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blflight77.htm

Listen to the eyewitnesses, saying things like:


'It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane,' Mr Campo said. 'I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here.'


'There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in.'


"I can still see the plane. I can still see it right now. It's just the most frightening thing in the world, going full speed, going full throttle, its wheels up,"


"I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building,"

[Jacobin]

20. don't confuse the issue with eye witnesses

Or people who lost loved ones on the plane.

:crazy:

[MervinFerd]

35. Or RADAR records, or NTSB investigations, or dead bodies......

[alfredo]

22. My best friend's son was there. He saw everything.

It was a plane.

[MervinFerd]

38. You are confusing the Conspiracy Nuts with facts.

Don't do that.

It annoys them.

[SPKrazy]

48. Calling Fellow DU'ers Conspiracy Nuts

or any fucking kind of nuts is frowned upon here.

just chill

[MervinFerd]

53. Even many MIHOPers know this 'Theory' is NUTS. Facts is Facts.

[alfredo]

64. I'm 61 years old, I can be annoying if I want to.

Bllluuuuhhhhhh!

[Oversea Visitor]

23. There is no plane

PERIOD.

What the hell it is?
Let just say only those in the know will know.

[Rex]

34. The Pentagon is a modern day fortress, why the hell OBL is still free

is beyond me. I believe a 757 could do that kinda damage, who really knows? (The NSA knows, that's who!)

[MervinFerd]

36. Spontaneous Airframe Combustion (tm)

"It's like Spontaneous Human Combustion, only with aluminum." (tm)

Yeah, the plane just burst into flames and disappeared into thin air.

What kind of a Fool do you have to be to take this crap seriously?

[MervinFerd]

40. If they faked everything else, why not the VIDEO?????

Huh?

[SPKrazy]

49. Do You Know They Didn't Fake The Video?

how do you know anything other than what you want to know?

take it all in

chill out

you are really chompin' about this one Merv

it ain't that important is it?

[MervinFerd]

54. Yes, it is important.

It's ugly and idiotic and it makes Liberals and Progressives and Democrats look ugly and idiotic because these Fools insist on associating themselves with legitimate political activities.

Yeah, they might have faked the video, but, then, why wouldn't they have put a plane in it?

[The Straight Story]

51. See here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1210654&mesg_id=1210654

A dry run in 2000??

[RandomKoolzip]

63. So what happened to all the people on board Flight 77?

[theboss]

66. Where did the bodies come from?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A61202-2001Nov20

[rman]

69. how can there be bodies if the whole plane vaporized?