What sites are considered "legitimate" 911 research avenues

[DemInDistress]

and what 911 sites are considered "conspiracy sites" where one should bring their tin foil? I had a beef today with the management regarding 911 research sites. One poster in GD and I were discussing reopening 911 whether or not it was a good issue for November. My sites that I listed were "tin foil" and considered then removed by the management while another DU-er posted world trade 7.net and byu professor jones.com..I listed
reopen911.org-eyewitnessto911.com-911truth.org and 911 citizens watch..was the management ever livid, they banished me to the Sept.11 forum while the other DU-er was allowed to continue posting about 911..
I have strong feelings about those Murders and feel way to much has gone unanswered,unchallenged,and grossly under reported.
So, I'd like to know who is legit so I don't run afoul of DU rules. I love this place and the many smart individuals I have come to know..

[pauldp]

1. first thing to remember...

These sons-a-bitches have shown that they are conspiring 24/7, so speculating about what they may have or may be
conspiring to do next is a logical and HEALTHY endeavor.

2nd thing to remember:
Many people will dismiss out of hand any speculation that these criminals would intentionally hurt Americans.
Deal with it.

3rd - The 911 truth movement is a rats nest of info and dis-info.
View everything with a measure of skepticism and the credible sites will make themselves obvious.

[DemInDistress]

3. Thanks for that insight..my own personal belief is

911 WAS INDEED AN INSIDE JOB. No doubts no reservations no way the 911 Report is genuine. As a matter of fact
that "ludicrous" report is more a conspiracy to hide the truth than find the truth. Its just that I got a warning today about "conspiracy sites" from the management of DU and didn't like it..One person seemed to be allowed to post, world trade 7.net and BYU professor jones.com both are terrific I viewed them. I added 4 sites, eyewitness to 911.com where I listened to massive explosions caught on tape. Why MSM never picked this up is obvious, ITS DAMAGING TO THE OFFICIAL REPORT..Second..reopen911.org. another good site where the dvd sent to me shows in chapter 7, 2 seconds before world trade 7 collapses at least 50 small explosions on the north side of the building. Clearly the signature of controlled demolition..then I post,terrorize.dk.com a site with many video clips from different angles revealing many unanswered aspects of that terrible day but the great thing about that site is, ITS IN DANISH. You can't determined by text anything the videos speak for themselves, I saw many frightening facts that only controlled demolitions could explain.. then finally I listed 911truth.org. a local NYC group seeking the same answers I, you and others are seeking . so why the warnings to me and not others with 911 site and opinions. hence, the reason I ask tonight ..
I like this DU and the many good people I come to know..their very smart and you my friend fit right in..

thanks again and if you could recommend a few more good 911 sites I'd like to look.

[pauldp]

10. cooperativeresearch.org

if you have not seen it, it is impeccably researched.
:thumbsup:

[DemInDistress]

16. I have that...ITS MY BIBLE

and I often quote from that timeline,..thank you for your support. Why do others scoff at material well documented in the timeline? Then god forbid I connect 911 to the present chaos and strife in the world,Iraq,raid of the Treasury,unpatriot act,plame spygate. The management here came down hard on me for my beliefs of 911.
I'm relieved that at least you agree and recommend the timeline to terror..

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for cooperativeresearch

[Harald Ragnarsson]

9. 2 words that PROVE the Bush Admin WILL intentionally hurt Americans

Anthrax and Katrina

[pauldp]

11. yup. n/t

[Christophera]

2. They Are Not FULLY Legitimate Unless Raw Evidence Is Used For Structural

determinations.

There is NO way a vaild analysis can be made without knowing exactly how the towers were constructed.

NIST and WTC report info CANNOT be used with out confirmation of raw photographic evidence of the structure as it came down and ground zero.

This is absolutely vital because what happened is strictly impossible with the structure that is officially described.

Here is a sight defining the structure with logic and photos of the towers.

http://concretecore.741.com/

[DemInDistress]

4. I read there are some 7,000 photo's and 300 hours of video

being withheld from public view. No wonder we have conspiracy theories. but how to weed out the good 911 sites from the evil sites looking to lead me,you and others astray. I checked out the site you sent.Looks good and has some technical info beyond my grasp right now. But I'll stick with it for these Murderers in our Whitehouse need to be exposed. This will be the 5th anniversary of the attacks and "how time flies" I want answers,arrests,indictments,convictions and executions for all involved. There is more evidence linking our government (cover ups) and larry silverstein (mossad) to 911 than osama and all the al-queda culprits. So I will try to keep my cool stay in this Sept.11 forum and hope I am not kicked out of the DU..

thanks again..

[dchill]

5. We live in an age of rampant relativism...

where often, the "truth" is what one makes it. Everything being relative, what I make it may be the exact opposite of what you make it. I personjally don't know what the truth is about 911, but my gut tells me it's no way what our government says it is. Everything is a conspiracy theory when it comes to 911. I think that's working in a number of ways for a lot of people, from George Bush et al to the zaniest webmasters on the internet.

Some of what I DO know is that our leader read a children's book about a goat for a considerable amount of time after he was informed of the second attack, that no planes were scrambled to intercept anything for an hour, and that Osama bin Laden claimed NOT to be responsible for the attacks, and that an obviously fake tape was made to counter that.

Facts are facts, and though there are few non-relative facts available, I know what I don't believe. Each of us has to make up his own mind. Unfortunately. There are those around this forum who will readily tell you that any site that contradicts their theory is "tin foil" - but they're all conspiracy sites. They have to be, after all, it was a conspiracy.

The question you pose is like asking "Which TV News channels are legitimate purveyors of actual news?" Well, it's relative.

[DemInDistress]

6. I expect an uproar from gopers/freepers when arguing 911

I just didn't expect it from some dems..In my eyes I see the massive bush crime family with all its divisions
larry silverstein, mossad, shadow government,neocons and others. I just can't picture osama and 19 merry men
defeating the greatest intel, the greatest air force, the greatest nation ever on earth. I do see greedy scumbag oilmen, defense contractors, big oil, other corporations lining up to raid America's Treasury and savage other nation's natural resources..there is so much more about 911 that goes unanswered,unchallenged
filled with distortions, lies discrepancies and denials..It pisses me off to feel banished to the Sept.11 forum because as far as I'm concerned iraq, patriot act, deficits,plamegate, spygate are all connected to 911 but if I interject that into a thread someone doesn't like it and I'm done. I love this place but I also don't like kissing ass or having to eat shit..This use to be a free America, say what you like but not anymore
anyway thanks for the feedback..I feel better.


http://www.cosgan.de/images/smilie/ziel.php?tableWidth=811&filefin=froehlich&setstyle=grey

[dchill]

8. Pssssst...

Don't tell anyone, but I see the same things. :)

[DemInDistress]

17. thanks dchill I'm not alone..

:thumbsup: :hi:

[we can do it]

22. Well - You Can Add Me, Too

I don't understand why DUer's who know what booshco is capable of - Stealing elections, Iraq, Katrina, bankrupting the country, raiding social programs....the list goes on - absolutely freak out when you suggest that the government could have been behind 9/11.

:shrug:

[DemInDistress]

26. thank you "we can do it" for your support. I got hell in GD

for expressing my 911 beliefs. At least I am not alone but I feel like I was sent to the dungeon. This forum should take top stage for all the chaos in today's world was brought by the Sept.11 2001 attacks and sadly I wholeheartedly believe, 911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB. Just ask larry silverstein,"we decided to pull the building" hell if that's not indictment material then nothing is.

[we can do it]

33. One Reason That Should Cause Every DUer To Doubt The Official Theory

Is that the boooshies use 9/11 to justify EVERYTHING THEY DO. Its now ok to spy on us, waste our young military people's lives, pour billions of dollars down the black hole of Iraq, steal more elections, expose an undercover CIA agent...etc. infinity.....

[greyl]

15. You should know how to separate the meaningless uproar

from reasoned points of view.

[DemInDistress]

18. meaningless uproar..please explain..I recall 3,000 innocent

people died to advance PNAC..you? what do you beleve?

[greyl]

24. Ok, "meaningless uproar" represents

the guff heard from people who disagree with you on principle or because of reactionary partisanship. The opposite of reasoned points of view, iow.
Again, you should know how to discern between them or else any investigating you do will be contaminated by your own reactionary partisanship.

Btw, there is an abundance of evidence that well more than 3000 innocent people have died to advance PNAC.

[Christophera]

7. We Should Rate Them

I don't really go to any one site. I review them and see what kind of images they have and what theories they promote.

If you have a particular site, or if anyone does, I could evaluate it.

[rman]

13. Anyone can "evaluate" websites

[DemInDistress]

21. yes but god forbid you mention a site in GD that doesn't conform

to management. Others seem to pass but reputable sites I mentioned drew harsh criticism and warnings were issued.

[Christophera]

23. Critical Thinking And Experience With Construction, Explosives Not

common with those that allege conspiracy.

For example;

I post this image of the core of WTC 2,



and people do not have the experience with steel and concrete to realize that there is NO way that the core was steel. Steel simply cannot have that appearance.

Or I post this image and say, "here is the base of the core wall".



Again, people do not have the experience with concrete to know that the top right corner of the core wall seen, its eroded condition, is only possible with concrete.

Now, .................. the critical thinking part.

In that area of the core wall there are supposed to be steel core columns. There are supposed to be steel core columns sticking up throughout. We see none. We do see interior box columns along the outside wall of the core which fully matches this image.



Which shows the spire. Not a core column because it is outside the core at a corner of the core.

So, ............... anybody can say they can evaluate a web site, but only a small percentage can actually back up their evaluation with evidence and logic.

[DemInDistress]

29. I read your concrete core thread..I'm still not sure although

I see in your pics a massive core of something (concrete?).Anyway I added a picture of molten metal dripping from the 80th floor of WT2..and the website, if you hadn't seen videos from this site please do I was shocked at some of which never made the light of day in MSM..
I applaud your efforts Christophera for you are lights years ahead of most 911 hunters..also Make 7 and Kiltown deserve a hand...

[Christophera]

32. VERY Interesting. Definitely Liquid Running Out The Side OfTower 2

That is a god site with video I hadn't seen.

http://www.terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem2/

It could be molten metal but it does not have the brightness that liquid steel has. Think of those documentaries of the foundarys with huge crucibles of molten steel. Most likely water. We know fire fighting was hampered because lines were wiped out by plane impacts. Definitely liquid.

[DemInDistress]

34. watch the videos on that page...clearly looks like molten

metal for when you look at the video there are several pieces of super red hot/white hot steel headed for the street. Your Nemesis Make 7 put me on to that site and what agreed with me was its,"anti political" has not bearing whatsoever because the text is Danish and how many DUers here read Danish. Just 1 so far, IChing..

Your opinions are light years ahead of most researchers here so I value yours. Thanks !!

[Christophera]

38. The Site Has A Nice Frame By Frame Breakdown Of DEMO Start

http://terrorize.dk/911/wtc2dem2/

but I can't say that a couple of bright flashes out of 20 seconds or so of liquid pouring off the floor looks like what I would expect if it were steel.

Molten steel is really bright. A stream of it splashing down the side of a building would be a bright streak sparking when contacting and splashing.

[DemInDistress]

39. Watch it a few times and then try to eliminate other

possible things..like aluminum for if it were aluminum then many parts of the WTC would also have drips sort of like a fountain..so what other possible pieces could get white hot? I did notice a chunk of red/white hot steel piece falling just 2 seconds before the whole building tips and funny that's the only visible drip of molten metal.
Suggest something else for discussion I'm game..furniture? rugs? jet parts? except this is above the crash site. Chris, I want to know what the fuck happened on 911..the 911 report is so LUDICROUS its insulting to thinking people..

[greyl]

41. How do you eliminate water? (so to speak) nt

[DemInDistress]

42. are you suggesting I see water dripping? don't you think

for a minute if there was water there it would be steam? if water at all? No, don't buy it,water that is.
What else? I'm open for opinions..

[DemInDistress]

43. be serious...does that look like water? where would it come from?

remember people evacuated and frankly to me there is,"NO CHANCE IN HELL THAT'S WATER"

[greyl]

44. Two posts, yet you haven't reasonably eliminated water.

Do you suppose all of the pipes in the building were still intact?
Do you think you could detect steam in that low-res video?
Why do you assume the water would be steaming in the first place?

How would you elimate all the other materials in the building that melt?
What about aluminum?

It sure as hell isn't a thermite reaction. A thermite reaction would be way more visible than steam.
Check wikipedia for "thermite" and watch the videos.

[DemInDistress]

19. Not a bad idea..a thread with legit 911 sources opposed to

dis-info sites where a DU-er could get lambasted by 911 debunkers like,LARED and KEVIN.

[rman]

12. It looks like DU admins/mods do not want to bring clarity

on this issue.

[DemInDistress]

20. Just my feelings..no clarity, no directions just move to the Sept

11 forum and be gone with you. No GD for you and DON'T even think of including Iraq,deficits,unpatriot act,DSM,plamegate and spygate to the present day chaos in the world..

[greyl]

25. Hellooooooo

To remind you, this forum is real.

I think it's better that 9/11 threads are gathered together in one spot.

[DemInDistress]

27. I agree this is a good forum maybe the best place to seek 911

answers but what ticked me off was someone else posted 911 sites evidentially deemed legit sites,(world trade 7.net % BYU professor jones.com) I concur, 2 more good 911 sites yet he wasn't pulled aside and reprimanded for posting his views. I still believe all the chaos in today's world is part and parcel of 911. Iraq,deficits,DSM,plame and spygates plus much more so I mention 911 when these threads are on fire. I am not the enemy, I want justice for the dead of 911. I will do all it takes to inspire debate regarding REOPENING 911 AND I HOPE YOU AGREE ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO....

[Christophera]

31. You Have A Point, Because We Are Not In Agreement.

And, .......... we are not in agreement because of DISINFORMATION.


There are some people in the 9-11 that are quite experienced with steel and concrete construction and also know quite a bit about explosives, or understand them. They agree to the fact of the concrete core but do not feel like sticking their neck out and being as adamant as I am, for at least 3 reasons. One, they don't know like I do, two, if they support an error, they loose credibility. The third is that some may be afraid of the secret governmetn coming after them.


The few who argue seriously for the truth, will change their mind IF good evidence and logic support such a change as they become educated in the facts of steel and concrete construction, or what they materials perform like under the 2 conditions regarded as responsible for the towers demise. Demolition or collapse.

What happens is that the information process is confused by disinformation agents and those sincerely working become slightly confused and so do not signify their solid agreement. Instead they wait to see what happens, ready to join as soon as the information confusion is cleared up.

[greyl]

14. I highly recommend this forum.

In contrast to most other dedicated 9/11 sites, this forum allows all sides of the argument to be presented.

[RedSock]

36. so why do threads on chem trails get dumped here?

so why do threads on stuff like chem trails get dumped here?

that has nothing to do with 9/11. yet it gets dumped here with all the other "kooky" ideas.

it's a shame -- and why i did not donate to DU this time around.

if the admins can somehow stomach having serious, fact-based 9/11 threads in LBN and GD, then i will send some of my $$.

[greyl]

40. Do you think that different people are behind chem trails and

9/11? (I don't mean individuals, exactly)
Both alt theories are usually blaming sinister elements of our government, right?
If you're gonna connect all the dots, it helps that they're all collected in one particular forum, don't you think?
Moving "chem trails" to this forum is a community service.

[Harald Ragnarsson]

28. NIST and FEMA, I believe

The rest are whacky tinfoil sites who bring dishonor upon the Democratic Party.

:sarcasm:

[DemInDistress]

30. NIST and FEMA bought and paid for by the BUSH CRIME FAMILY

SORRY I DISAGREE..

cooperativeresearch.org
911citizenswatch
letsroll
whatreallyhappened
wanttoknow.info

some of my favorites and there are a few others..

[satya]

35. Here's a Port Authority video w/original footage of tower construction.

There seems to be a raging debate here about whether the core was concrete or steel, but you can see it for yourself here.

Construction of the towers could now proceed with great speed. Three basic elements were used: two- or three- story sections for the load-bearing wall, massive steel beams for the core columns and floor sections to span the sixty feet between core and wall. Through the complex orchestration of these structural elements, three floors could be constructed in ten days.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3


edited to clarify subject title.

[DemInDistress]

37. thanks for the look back in time..however I didn't notice

concrete cores at any time..I did see steel cores but little to no concrete. I like Christopera but no concrete cores...concrete floors yes.
anyway,thanks again..

[Lithos]

45. Locking

Please note that such questions about acceptable sites need to be raised to the Administrators.

**************

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