PNAC 'phase 4' 9/11 plan almost here. Heading for Iran!

[killtown]

EU calls for UN action over Iran

Foreign ministers from the UK, France and Germany have said the time has come for Iran's nuclear issue to be dealt with by the UN Security Council.

They called for an emergency session of the UN's nuclear watchdog, which can refer Iran to the council and lead to possible sanctions.

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice backed the move, saying Iran had crossed an "important threshold".

Iran, which resumed nuclear research this week, said it was not worried.

And UN Secretary General Kofi Annan told the BBC Iranian officials had told him they remained "interested in serious and constructive negotiations".

The US and members of the EU have accused Iran of covertly seeking to develop nuclear weapons, a charge Iran denies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4604088.stm

[Make7]

1. I am unfamiliar with "phase 4" of PNAC's "9/11 plan".

Could you give a brief outline for those of us who are curious? How is this news article related to "phase 4"?

- Make7

[killtown]

2. Complete Idiot's Guide to the Phases of the PNAC's 9/11 plan

1) Orchestrate 9/11 as a pre-text for war

US military drafted 'Operation Northwoods' plan to commit terror acts in US cities, kill innocent Americans, and hijack airplanes to trick the public into supporting a war against Cuba. (ABC)

War in Afghanistan would have been politically impossible pre-9/11. (USA Today)

2) Invade Afghanistan for a pipeline and it's opium.

1997 - Taleban are in Texas for talks with Unocal about an Afghan pipeline. (BBC)

Feb '98, Unocal rep testifies before congress that an Afghan pipeline can't happen without a single stable Afghan gov't and asks the US to use it's influence to end conflicts there. (US House of Reps)

Aug '98 - Unocal suspends Afghan pipeline activities because of deteriorating political conditions there. (Unocal)

Dec '98 - Unocal drops out of Afghan pipeline consortium. (Unocal)

1999 - US paid entire annual salary of Taliban gov't in hopes to secure a stable Afghan gov't to allow US companies to build a pipeline there to connect to the Caspian Sea. (SF Chronicle)

May '01, US gives $43 million to Afghanistan and becomes their largest donor two years in a row. (CNN)

Some say current military campaign in Afghanistan has hidden objective - revive gas pipeline and open the way for U.S. companies to build further facilities to carry central Asian oil. (BCC)

Dec '02 - Afghan gas pipeline deal signed. (BBC, SF Chronicle)

May '05 - Afghan pipeline draws closer to reality, Afghan President said project was a 'top priority.' (Christian Science Monitor)

July '00 - Taliban bans cultivation of opium poppies in Afghanistan (BBC), Mar '05, Afghanistan opium production surges. (USA Today)

July '01 - US plans to invade Afghanistan by Oct '01 (BBC, Guardian)

Sept 4 - White House approves plan to invade Afghanistan (CBS, USA Today)

Sept 10 - Plan awaits Bush's approval (MSNBC)

Oct '01 - US invades Afghanistan. (DoD)

3) Invade Iraq for it's oil.

1998 - PNAC calls for a war in Iraq to oust Saddam Hussein who they say threatens Israel and the world's oil supply. (ABC, PNAC)

Of the 18 PNAC members who urged Clinton to remove Saddam in '98, 10 will be in the new Bush administration. (ABC)

Jan '01 - Bush had pre-9/11 Iraq war plan according to Treasury Dept memo. (CNN)

Bush made plans for ousting Saddam and for Iraq's oil before 9/11. (BBC)

9/11 - Barely 5 hrs after the Pentagon crash, Rumsfeld begins strike plans against Iraq. (CBS)

Feb '02 - Bush admin was warned statements that Iraq trained Al Qaeda in weapon making was fabricated, yet they would later use same statements as foundation for military action in Iraq. (NY Times, AFP)

Sept '03 - Poll later finds 70% Americans believe Saddam-9/11 link. (CNN, White House)

White House officials say privately 9/11 was main reason for war in Iraq (ABC), Bush says US is in Iraq because of 9/11. (CNN, White House)

4) Invade Iran for it's oil and because it's in the middle of the Oman Gulf, the Persian Gulf, Saudi Arabia (our #1 oil friends and largest oil reserves), Iraq (2nd largest oil reserves), Armenia, Turkmenistan, Caspian Sea (lot's of oil), Afghanistan (pipeline, opium), and Pakistan (oil buyer, middleman).




(Source for all news quotes)

[rman]

3. phase 2 in chronological order would be something like this?

2) Invade Afghanistan for a pipeline and it's opium.

1997 - Taleban are in Texas for talks with Unocal about an Afghan pipeline. (BBC)

Feb '98, Unocal rep testifies before congress that an Afghan pipeline can't happen without a single stable Afghan gov't and asks the US to use it's influence to end conflicts there. (US House of Reps)

Aug '98 - Unocal suspends Afghan pipeline activities because of deteriorating political conditions there. (Unocal)

Dec '98 - Unocal drops out of Afghan pipeline consortium. (Unocal)

1999 - US paid entire annual salary of Taliban gov't in hopes to secure a stable Afghan gov't to allow US companies to build a pipeline there to connect to the Caspian Sea. (SF Chronicle)

July '00 - Taliban bans cultivation of opium poppies in Afghanistan (BBC),

May '01, US gives $43 million to Afghanistan and becomes their largest donor two years in a row. (CNN)
Some say current military campaign in Afghanistan has hidden objective - revive gas pipeline and open the way for U.S. companies to build further facilities to carry central Asian oil. (BCC)

July '01 - US plans to invade Afghanistan by Oct '01 (BBC, Guardian)

Sept 4 ('01?)- White House approves plan to invade Afghanistan (CBS, USA Today)

Sept 10 ('01?)- Plan awaits Bush's approval (MSNBC)

Oct '01 - US invades Afghanistan. (DoD)

Dec '02 - Afghan gas pipeline deal signed. (BBC, SF Chronicle)

Mar '05, Afghanistan opium production surges. (USA Today)

May '05 - Afghan pipeline draws closer to reality, Afghan President said project was a 'top priority.' (Christian Science Monitor)

[killtown]

6. Works for me!

[Make7]

5. Complete Idiot's Guide to killtown's invented PNAC 9/11 plan for Dummies

You might want to consider using that for the title of a new webpage. Companion page to "150+ Eyebrow Raising Facts of 9/11".

I was going to put more effort into this response, but have neither the time or the inclination to do so. However, I would still like to make a few comments.

Before I start though, I have to say that it is fairly impressive that you included something about PNAC in at least two items out of the couple dozen or so that you have listed. I would think more items would be related to the organization whose "plan" you are discussing, but it was good to see that there actually was something that involved them.

Phase 1 - September 11th

'Operation Northwoods' - I was wondering if you have a reference for the member of PNAC that was involved in the planning for this operation in 1962. I think that we can be fairly certain that PNAC as an organization was not involved considering the fact that PNAC was established in 1997 - thirty-five years after 'Operation Northwoods' was drafted. How exactly is PNAC tied to this at all?

Phase 2 - Afghanistan

Pipelines - Pipeline routes for gas and oil were also proposed to run through Iran. The proposed Iranian oil pipeline was shorter than the one proposed to go through Afghanistan, but the proposed pipeline for gas would have been longer than the Afghanistan route. A possible solution to avoid the longer route would have been to run the gas pipeline through Iran to a seaport and transfer it by ship to its final destination. However, even the longer route proposed may have been more desirable given the turbulent political and security situation in Afghanistan, which was a country that was at war for most of the last two decades.

So if part of this PNAC "plan" was indeed to invade Iran, why not fabricate the evidence to implicate Iran for 9/11 in order to invade them first to get their oil and the land to build the proposed pipelines from the Caspian Basin as a first response to their orchestrated pre-text?

Phase 3 - Iraq

PNAC - In 1998 they write President Clinton urging his administration implement a policy for "removing Saddam Hussein and his regime from power. That now needs to become the aim of American foreign policy.

The only problem with this part of PNAC's plan is that it already was the aim of the US Government to remove Saddam from power. The CIA was ordered by the White House in 1996 to to organize a coup to topple Saddam. So unless PNAC was forming American foreign policy the year before it was established, I don't know if we can attribute "Phase 3" to PNAC.

Phase 4 - Iran

Timing - Why was this not "Phase 2? All the 'reasons' that you have listed were there before "Phase 1".

History - Taking into consideration the history between the United States and Iran since the early 1950's, an invasion of Iran would, in my opinion, be a never ending quagmire much worse than Iraq. To actually undertake a military invasion would be ignorant almost beyond belief. That is not to say that it could not happen, just that it would not be a wise thing to do. The almost certain failure of an invasion of Iran would be counter to the plans for American global dominance outlined by PNAC.

- Make7

[killtown]

7. - roll eyes -

1) I'm not saying they were. Just mentioned Northwoods to PROVE to you that our gov't HAS planned a 9/11 before for a pre-text to war. You can NOT dispute this FACT.


2) Why don't you ask them.


3) Well, they weren't aiming good enough since Saddam was still in power when BushCo took power!


4) Again, you'll have to ask them.


4 1/2) Well since seeing Iraq IS a quagmire, I guess the PNAC's plan wasn't full-proof now was it?

[Make7]

8. :smacks self on forehead:

1) How exactly did you get the impression that I was disputing the existence of 'Operation Northwoods'? Or the previous history of the U.S. government's involvement in planning and executing plans designed to create pre-texts for wars? What 'Northwoods' shows is planning done by the government, not PNAC. I'm still unclear on how you have come to know that this all is some part of a far-reaching PNAC plan. 'Operation Northwoods' would indicate that there are also other persons and/or organizations capable of planning 9/11, why do you believe it is PNAC's plan?

2) I am asking you because you seem to be saying that you have some special knowledge of the plans of PNAC. There is evidence that the basic blueprint for the war in Afghanistan was drafted during the Clinton Administration. Were the members of the neo-conservative PNAC organization involved in this? If so, how? Once again, I am trying to determine what link you believe PNAC has to this. If any.

3) Saddam was still in power at the beginning of the Bush Administration - how does that show that this is part of PNAC's plan to remove Saddam from power? How do you know it wasn't the Pentagon? Or the DIA? Or the CIA? etc.,etc.

4) Unfortunately, PNAC will not answer any of my questions about their "9/11 plan" for some reason. Since you appear to be saying that you have the inside track on their designs, I was hoping you could answer a couple of questions. Perhaps this is all just pure speculation on your part.

4½) In my opinion, Afghanistan should not be considered a resounding success either. So - why do you believe they would proceed to the next phase of the plan when the previous phases are not yet complete? This seems to be a move that would be counter-productive to their aims.

4¾) Have you even read any of PNAC's documents?

- Make7

[killtown]

9. *sigh*

Of the 18 PNAC members who urged Clinton to remove Saddam in '98, 10 will be in the new Bush administration. (ABC)

[Make7]

10. :shakes head:

Given the history, for the past hundred years or so, of the United States intervening in the affairs of other nations. (Including military invasions.) And knowing that in many cases they came up with pre-texts for military action that were less than truthful. Considering the basic plan for the military action undertaken in Afghanistan was drawn up in the Clinton Administration. Bearing in mind the fact that, prior to the establishment of the PNAC, it was the policy of the US regarding Iraq to remove Saddam from power. Also acknowledging that the US government did actively assist Iraq in its war with Iran in the 1980's, implying that the goals of US foreign policy towards Iran have been somewhat less than cordial since the fall of the Shah in 1979.

Do you believe that the war in Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq, and the possible upcoming military action against Iran are all part of a plan created by the Project for a New American Century because there are ten members of that organization in the Bush Administration? How do you know that these are not just the latest in a long history of military actions undertaken by the US government? (Long before there even was a thing called the Project for a New American Century.)

4¾) Have you even read any of PNAC's documents?

- Make7

[killtown]

11. Oh, must be another one of those big "coincidences", huh?

Wow, I've never seen an event, such as 9/11, that had sooooooo many coincidence related to it. You would think that would defy the odds!

[Make7]

12. This is all just pure speculation on your part.

Apparently not even based on reading documents by the organization whose 'plan' you have "outlined".

Ten people constitutes a coincidence?

The Project for a New American Century included in its membership Republicans that had served in former Administrations. When a Democratic Administration was elected, they did not serve during that time, but when a Republican Administration was in the White House again, some of them took positions in the new Administration. How coincidental! Party politics.

- Make7

[killtown]

13. "Ten people constitutes a coincidence?"

Yep

[DemInDistress]

4. What I got from reading PNAC...

A friendly pro-western nations from Lebanon thru Syria,Iraq (we own) Iran (up next) Afghanistan (we own)Pakistan ( friendly for now) India to the doorstep of China where the US can monitor the Waking Giant. All that was needed was the "New Pearl Harbor".....911 was an Inside Job