The first 9/11 lie..."That's one bad pilot"

[NoQuarter]

Since everyone on the planet knows that no one saw footage of the first plane hit until long after the second tower was hit (home video), why is no one really questioning why Bush made that statement about what transpired before he went into that classroom in Florida? (As if someone was taking dictation for his memoir - undoubtedly, already a best seller in his...um...mind)

I mean, given his utter lack of ability to speak extemporaneously in anything that sounds like coherent English, doesn't this sound like the kind of thing he would have "prepared" in his feverish little brain beforehand? (I know, Bush and brain in the same sentence without the name Rove - stay with me here)

Tin foil hats be damned!

The MoFo knew! He saw it so many times in his head, that it never occurred to him that there wouldn't be footage of what he had already come to think of as his defining moment.

When so many lies have been told, It is always a clever tactic to take the liar back to the beginning and see if they recreate the tale.

I would make the popcorn! :popcorn:

[Beam Me Up]

1. Nice of you to post this in GD but it won't stay here long, you know.

Like deformed or retarded relatives in times past, threads that would discuss the peculiarities of that day with an open mind are invariably shuttled off to that deep and dark cellar which only just recently has begun to become a rather frequently visited little basement of DU.

Edit: You make a valid point. I'm not certain how much the chimp knew about what was going on. He certainly wasn't in 'control' in any sense of the word. He was just waiting for the next cue. How much did he know? I suspect just enough to keep him from totally freaking out. In other words, I wouldn't be the LEAST bit surprised if he actually believes the cock-n-bull story of Muslim fundamentalist terrorists. They probably told him that there was going to be an attack but they were going to let it happen so he could have his war with Iraq.

Of course I could be completely wrong. I just don't think they'd trust him with the truth.

[Viva_La_Revolution]

2. .

:applause:

[Kralizec]

3. Rally!

:applause:

[NoQuarter]

6. I agree.

My point would be that perhaps to hasten the implosion, that question should occur with more frequency. The more people that have to (and undoubtedly would) chime in to cover his ass, the more doubt it will raise in the minds of those who are not questioning already.

To my mind, it doesn't matter which issue wakes people up. It just matters that it happens. And the sooner the better.

[Beam Me Up]

8. We're about to find out which is stronger: The Truth or The Lie.

Which has the greater power to motivate people?

If the truth can be told so as to be understood, it will be believed.--Terence McKenna

[Beam Me Up]

9. People are hearing the LIE word in the media in relation to Iraq. They're

also hearing the CONSPIRACY word in relation to the outing of Valarie Plame.

This is a good thing.

No one is talking about 9/11 (yet) but it is there like a ticking time bomb that could blow this country a part.

On the other hand, I don't believe there is any DEMOCRATIC way forward for this country if this matter isn't addressed.

It is one thing to murder a President in broad day light and get away with it, it is another matter to murder 3,000 citizens and place the entire society into a state of shock. That is a psychological operation of Mythic proportions; and the consequences can not do less than stand up to those very proportions.

Keep spreading the word.

...knowledge brings responsibility. If we acknowledge that an inner circle of ruling elites controls the world's most powerful military and intelligence system; controls the international banking system; controls the most effective and far-reaching propaganda network in history; controls all three branches of government in the world's only superpower; and controls the technology that counts the people's votes, we might be then forced to conclude that we don't live in a particularly democratic system. And then voting and making contributions and trying to stay informed wouldn't be enough. Because then the duty of citizenship would go beyond serving as a loyal opposition, to serving as a "loyal resistance"Ñlike the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War, except that in this case the resistance to fascism would be on the side of the national ideals, rather than the government; and a violent insurgency would not only play into the empire's hands, it would be doomed from the start.

Forming a nonviolent resistance movement, on the other hand, might mean forsaking some middle class comfort, and it would doubtless require a lot of work. It would mean educating ourselves and others about the nature of the truly apocalyptic beast we face. It would mean organizing at the most basic neighborhood level, face to face. (We cannot put our trust in the empire's technology.) It would mean reaching across turf lines and transcending single-issue politics, forming coalitions and sharing data and names and strategies, and applying energy at every level of government, local to global. It would also probably mean civil disobedience, at a time when the Bush regime is starting to classify that action as "terrorism." In the end, it may mean organizing a progressive confederacy to govern ourselves, just as our revolutionary founders formed the Continental Congress. It would mean being wise as serpents, and gentle as doves.

It would be a lot of work. It would also require critical mass. A paradigm shift.

Paranoid Shift

[LunaC]

11. "No one is talking about 9/11 (yet)"

YET...but we'll mosey onto it eventually.

After the initial Senate Intelligence Committee Report, Jay Rockefeller said "It was clear to all of us in this room who were watching that, and to many others, that they had made up their mind that they were going to go to war. And I believe to this day, and I always have and I’ve said so publicly many times in regretting my vote, that there was a predetermination, even going back to 1998 in a letter to Bill Clinton, saying, "The time for diplomacy has ended and now is the time for the use of military force."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A38650-20...

Rockefeller is obviously aware of PNAC - which is at the heart of the 911 event - and I'm hoping it will come out with the Phase Two report the Dems so valiantly forced onto the Repugs. To fully appreciate the gravity of Rockefeller’s insight, anyone not already familiar with it should refer to PNAC 101 - Rise of the Neocons (link in sig line) and pass it along! We can kick-start the paradigm shift!

[LunaC]

13. See post #11 n/t

[LunaC]

7. My thoughts too

On both points.

As for the events of 911, I’ve always thought the seven notorious minutes where he just sat there in a daze he was thinking to himself “They did it…..they really, really did it…..and all this time I thought they were just joking……”

And yes, it’s a shame that intelligent discourse surrounding that day gets banished to the forum hinterlands. I, too, wish it weren’t the case. Someday, in a galaxy far, far away, the truth of that day will slowly seep out, the topic will be in vogue and we’ll enjoy a place of prominence on the front page. Some day……

[NoQuarter]

17. The look on his face

brings to mind a line from Jean Anouilh's Antigone - "And now the spring is wound up tight. It will uncoil of itself."

But then dumbshit doesn't read and so any literary reference is so totally inappropriate. The very last thing he would have been thinking.

So we're left with "Oh fuck, what do I do now?"

[Nothing Without Hope]

14. Unfortunately true - this post will be whisked out of sight in the 9/11

Forum all too soon, like anything that questions ANY aspect of the Bush Administration's official story about 9/11 as not entirely ironclad. Such are immediately dumped into the 9/11 "conspiracy theory" forum where few people - dismissable as tinfoilhatters - can see it.

How long, I wonder, before there is more flexibility about what is a nutso, embarrassing "conspiracy theory" versus what does indeed need OPEN discussion?

[Tuesday_Morning]

36. More than ever, we need to be...

...more flexible and open about discussing this.

They are showing themselves to be liars, criminals, sadists and power-hungry control freaks. Just because many of us have a difficult time contemplating the evil that MIHOP or LIHOP would require, doesn't mean they face the same "obstacles".

[Beam Me Up]

37. The entire Bush administration IS a conspiracy.

Anyone who doesn't get that, isn't sufficiently familiar with PNAC and the significance of President Eisenhower's farewell address:

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence - economic, political, even spiritual - is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

[soulcore]

4. Here's the exact quote from the transcript

QUESTION: One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for this country, and another thing is that how did you feel when you heard about the terrorist attack?

BUSH: Well... (APPLAUSE)

Thank you, Jordan (ph).

Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."

Second question. What brought down WTC7?

[leftstreet]

10. "America's under attack"

(Since this thread hasn't gone away yet.)

I remember being surprised that the Prez wasn't immediately whisked away, and out of the school. I assumed that would be protocol. But he just kept doing the Pet Goat thing.

[SpiralHawk]

27. That's when Bush whipped out My Pet Goat and wasted 1/2 hour

doing NOTHING but continuing to sit in the classroom and read that idiotic book. He sat there and did nothing after he was told "America is under attack." He did nothing to defend America, the nation's Capitol, or the Pentagon. He couldn't even muster a pea shooter to defend the frikkin Pentagon with almost an hour warning.

MIHOP

[pberq]

28. Very important point - the #1 mission of the Secret Service

is to protect the President. SOP was completely abandoned that morning. The second that the attacks were known, Secret Service should have immediately taken * away.

See David Ray Griffin's "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions"

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1566565847/qid=1132064373/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-0665542-6475309?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Kicked and Nominated! It will be interesting to see how long the mods allow this to stay in GD.

[Tuesday_Morning]

29. David Ray Griffin's other book

"A New Pearl Harbor" is worth reading, too.

[we can do it]

56. I'm Reading It Now

I've bitten off all my fingernails.

[AntiCoup2K4]

15. Larry Silverstein admitted that he gave the order to pull WTC 7

And in this case, the word "pull" means a controlled demolition.

Now given the state of the WTC complex on that day, complete chaos, no power, buildings falling all around, there would have been no possible way that WTC could have been wired with explosive charges that afternoon for the emergency demolition.

Which could only mean the charges were already placed beforehand.

And if WTC 7 was prewired for a controlled demolition, how much of a leap is it to say that WTC 1 and 2 (the towers) were also wired with explosives?

As to how this could have been done in such a huge building where literally tens of thousands passed through the doors every day, the answer is simpler than you might think. A new sprinkler system was installed soon after Silverstein and his partner Frank Lowy acquired the WTC complex. The sprinkler crews were given clearance by the company hired to provide security for the towers. Therefore, they didn't have to deal with bomb sniffing dogs.

BTW, the head of that security company was one Marvin Bush.



...who would be the guy behind his Idiot brother in this picture.

[BlueEyedSon]

23. This was disturbing then, and continues to be!

Probly had live closed circuit TV of the first hit in the limo....

[Nostradammit]

24. Third question - Why didn't Andy Card wait for instructions?

He leaned over, told Bush something (probably just whispered "Cha-ching!") and then sauntered off. In reality the Chief of Staff would have awaited an immediate decision from Bush. Card did not.

[BlueEyedSon]

25. He did... from Cheney!

:rofl:

[The_Mule]

33. You know, in all these last four years,...

I never thought of that. Good point!

[Flying Dream Blues]

44. Another point...Wouldn't the NORMAL reaction to something

so shocking as "America is under attack" have been to immediately leave to get more information? Putting aside Andy Card not waiting for *'s instructions, which is an excellent point, wouldn't * himself have reacted differently if he was completely surprised by the news??

The fact that he just sat there dazed makes me think he was thinking about all the information he already HAD...the ramifications, what to do next, etc. Something's just not right.

[petgoat]

53. the NORMAL reaction

Depends on the stimulus. I'm starting to think that what Card whispered
was "Flight 93 has been delayed 40 minutes. We'll need to stall."

[Beam Me Up]

38. That's an easy one. None of them take "instructions" from 'W'.

That is why they put him THERE in a room full of children on that fateful day.

The United States of America has been without a genuine President for over FIVE YEARS. He is nothing but a dog-and-poney pResident.

[Chiyo-chichi]

46. But, everyone knows there are TV sets in the hallways

of all FLA public schools. Magic TV sets that show events that have not yet been broadcast.

So many things wrong w/that statement.

"I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on..."

I suppose that "outside the classroom" does not inherently mean the hallway, but even if he was in the Presidential limo, WHY would he be "waiting" to go in? When the POTUS arrives at your school, he doesn't accomodate your schedule - you accomodate his - he doesn't "wait to go in."

I also suppose that, if they would deign to comment, the WH would say that the Prez misspoke & that he meant to say that was what went through his mind when he was told that the first plane hit the tower.

[alphafemale]

5. I remember that. It was after his Trifecta "joke"

I think it was before his telling of the "Funny Story" about him and Pickles having a good laugh on 9/11.

[chat_noir]

21. audio clips

http://www.the-gnosis.com/bush/GeorgeWBushjokesaboutterror.mpga


Yeah, his audience laughed.

[loyalsister]

22. The real issue here is his insensitivity

It's not that it was a lie.
Not only is there is no way in the world that they would not insulate him from advance knowledge of this event.
The most it is more remarkable to note his pattern of insensitivity.
He heard this news and had an absolutely bizzare reaction considering his position. He mentions a comment that is careless. It is not unlike his response to Katrina.
The main point here is he doesn't care that he is the president and has no idea what his responsibilities are when something big happens.

He's not instantly thinking about his relationship to the aftermath of what goes wrong. "What do I need to do now?" doesn't seem to cross his mind.
He just does his quick. "That's one terrible pilot" analysis and goes back to reading for his photo-op. Then his day was supposed to continue to be all about him.
The trifecta remark is even more insensitive and refers to him getting what he wants.

[Tuesday_Morning]

30. But aside from Smirk's idiocy...

...it would have been normal procedure for the Secret Service to whisk him out of there. His location was known and presumably the country was under attack.

Instead, he sat there like a bad actor on a stage without his lines.

[loyalsister]

34. Us being "under attack"

was a self serving intepretation of events.
A terrorist act could be treated as a crime.
They treated it as an act of war in the aftermath even though they knew at the time we were not under immediate "attack" by any threat that could inflict widespread damage.

[MooPie]

31. You are spot on here.

The man is devoid of empathy and compassion. Frighteningly so. One stellar example of his pathology takes place during another of his many vacations while playing golf he is told of the the bombing of the school bus in Israel, to which he spews his pre-fab "terrible tragedy" rhetoric and finishes with "Now watch this drive." I remember watching that on the news even before it made the Daily Show and Michael Moore's movie. At the time I watched with astonishment at how, as you said, the day was supposed to continue to be all about him. He couldn't even follow through enough to fake concern. Jeebus!!! That man is scary.

[Flying Dream Blues]

45. Unbelievable. Can't even FAKE being human.

[Old and In the Way]

12. Kinda non-sensical when you consider the PDB 30 days earlier.

"bin Laden determined to Strike the US". So if he was watching TV and it was the 2nd plane (he already knew the 1st plane hit before he entered Booker).....then he's a.....wait for it.....liar. He damn well knew that was no accident. But what if he screwed the pooch and blew his 1st lines? Maybe he did see the 1st plane go in....on CCTV.

Personally, I'll take him at his word; thus, he should be immediately arrested and charged with treason.

[Bluebear]

16. Thank you DU for allowing these posts to stand!

Evidently there is a sea change and we can now rationally discuss the events of that day without being shuffled off to above-mentioned basement! :thumbsup:

[Tuesday_Morning]

48. Evidently not a sea change...

Shameful.

[corbett]

18. Best Summary Of Lies I've Seen

https://secure.reopen911.org/freedvd.php

[Slit Skirt]

19. yes it would be interesting...

I emailed this to one of the networks not too long ago......

On two DIFFERENT occasions Bush stated that he saw the plane hit the tower and said "That's one bad pilot". The problem with that statement is that the video on the first plane and tower was not available till the next morning. Unless he was set up with some sort of monitoring device he could have not seen that. If he was monitoring it that would imply foreknowledge. OK...knowing Bush and his Bushisms.....maybe he just misspoke....but if did misspeak and he was really watching the second plane hit the tower........then what was that scene in the classroom with Andrew Card?
he can't have it both ways...either he saw the first one and was surprised at the second hit when Andrew Card whispered in his ear......or....he saw the second plane hit the tower and the scene in the classroom was another friggin photo op.

[jbnow]

47. I never thought much

about him saying he saw the first plane hit. Just assumed he meant he saw on TV where the plane had hit, the results and not the collision.

That is not to defend him. There is no defense.

While unrelated to explosions or buildings or other things I am no expert on something did happen that turned me into a conspiracy believer.

It was all reported by MSM and when I first heard about all the insider trading type things such as "Put Options" I was relieved. We'd be able to prove who had the prior knowledge. I followed this news closely. It wasn't just the airlines involved, it was the companies inside the twin towers. These could all be tracked.
There was also a surge in credit card transactions in the hours before though at first it seemed this data would be lost in the ruins of the company. Then it was reported the damaged hard drives were recovered and a German company was able to extract the data.
There were other things too but at the time I was just relieved by it. I assumed before we went to war that these would be announced or at least shown to other countries as proof.
Then the media quit talking about it. I saw one report that said it was determined this was all within normal fluctuation, which was impossible. I read an interview where an employee at the Chicago Board Options Exchange (the company that tracked the stock) said they'd been told to stop the investigation.

And that was when I lost my innocence. I never understood why the press dropped it, why the results weren't shouted from the rooftops. There were answers here. There is no innocent reason for it. It didn't prove our government was part of the plot ahead of time but it sure proved they were part of a cover-up after it.

I still wait for answers, but no longer with bated breath.

[pberq]

49. Yes. Most people who start a serious examination of the facts

reach a point where your conclusion becomes obvious: "It didn't prove our government was part of the plot ahead of time but it sure proved they were part of a cover-up after it."

[chat_noir]

20. audio clip

http://www.the-gnosis.com/bush/bushlies.ram

[QuettaKid]

26. My question is WHY

do all the threads asking about this automatically get shunted off to the hinterlands? THIS seems to be the most popular forum and can anyone honestly tell me there is a more important topic than the unravelling of the 9/11 mystery?! WHY CAN'T WE TALK ABOUT IT HERE WHERE THE MOST EYEBALLS WILL SEE IT!?!?

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

32. You give him too much credit

The man is a drug addict and a drunk. His brain is so riddled with holes, it was pretty much in character for him to throw out the facts of what happened or just flat out not remember them to make a tasteless joke "work" for him and his rich Republican fellating buddies.

[QuettaKid]

35. A.M. KICK...

.

[seabeyond]

39. he didt see the first? was in class for the second

so saw neither on tv? yet says when he saw the first plane the first thought in his head was.........

not like he could confuse having seen the second on that statement. he saw neither, right????????/

makes no sense. you are right. adn i want clarification. i have wanted clarification for years

[Beam Me Up]

41. You're aware that he made this statement publicly TWICE.

Once in Florida and then again at a public event in California. For a long time the transcripts were up on the official WH web site--they may still be there and could be found if we knew the dates. Early 2002, as I recall.

[seabeyond]

43. i believe it was immediately after and then again in jan? yes n/t

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

40. He's actually said it twice, believe it or not

The guy's just idiotic, I don't see anything sinister in it. I mean the little creep called 9-11 "an interesting day" ho-di-ho.

[Brewman_Jax]

42. Does anyone know the skill level needed

to actually fly a jet aircraft over 600 miles from the hijack point to target the Twin Towers? I had a good friend in college who was an aspiring commercial pilot, and he said that he'd need hundreds of flight hours to qualify for the different types of aircraft. (Last I heard he is a cargo pilot.) Based on my limited knowledge, seems to me that professional skill, not basic, is required. But, I could be wrong. :shrug:

edit for clarity

[Kevin Fenton]

51. It's supposed to be difficult

They weren't going at 600 mph (between 350 mph - Pentagon - and 500 mph - South Tower), but it's supposed to be very difficult for someone who's trained on a Cessna to just jump into a Boeing and fly it perfectly; the problems are the complexity of the controls, the greater speed and the weight of the aircraft (which makes it slower to respond). It's also fairly unlikely that a reasonably competent organisation like Al Qaeda would send four bozos on such a crucial mission.

Maybe it would have been a good idea to ask the professional fighter pilot who lived with Atta in Hamburg whether he gave them any pointers.

[Brewman_Jax]

54. You see my point

thanks. Amateurs sitting at flight simulators and taking basic flight lessons in Cessnas could not possibly have the skill required to fly large passenger jet aircraft.

[Kevin Fenton]

55. Actually,

I think it was a genuine attack by Al Qaeda and that they had better pilots than they let on.

Here are my reasons:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x59020

[killtown]

50. I believe Bush saw the 2nd plane crash live on TV

Notice in his first "I saw a plane" speech that he doesn't mention which plane he's referring to, or which tower it crashed in...

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. - White House (12/04/01)

Now the 2nd plane crash WAS caught live on TV which millions who were watching the aftermath of the 1st crash live on TV.

Notice what Bush says after seeing this plane crash live on TV...

But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it. And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack."

Now check out the timeline of events:

9:03 am - Second plane crashes into the WTC. Bush said afterwards "But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it."

+

60 seconds for Bush to walk out of his holding room and into the classroom after he was "whisked off".

=

9:04 am

+

3 minutes from when Bush enters the classroom until Cards whispers in his ear.

=

9:07 am - The time some media reports have Card whispering in Bush's ear...

"'A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack.'
White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card leaned over and whispered these words into President Bush's right ear at 9:07 a.m. September 11." -Washington Times (10/08/02)

"I said, 'A second plane hit the second tower. America is under attack.'
'The president's eyes got wide … and the face told it all,' Compton said, noting that 'something terribly grave. … Something beyond imagining' happened around 9:07 a.m. ET, according to her notes." -ABC (9/14/01)

See more about my theory at: Did Bush see the 2nd WTC plane crash?

[Slit Skirt]

52. what about this?

Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building
There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020105-3.html


Bush can't have it both ways...either he saw the first or he saw the second...either way he is screwed.