Was the 1st plane hit on WTC documented on film or video?

[maveric]

Please refresh my memory on this one. I remember seeing the 2nd plane hit but cant recall seeing footage of the 1st.

Didnt *bu$h* state that he watched the 1st plane hit?

[jenm]

1. good site for just that very question

http://users.adelphia.net/~earthwatch/

[Nay]

2. The first plane that hit a tower WAS captured on film by...

two Frenchmen who just happened to be making a documentary film about firemen. They were at the firestation right next to the Trade Center. I don't believe that film was released for a number of weeks afterwards, though. * certainly didn't see it on TV that morning. that lying sack of shit.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

8. there is another one found recently too

Some random New Yorker was videotaping the skyline while driving in car. Just read the one round of stories, and haven't heard anything about it since.

[Nomad559]

9. I have the Video

1st Plane
---------------------------------------------------------------------

Lasso of Truth

[THUNDER HANDS]

11. there was footage of the first place that afternoon

It was 6 or 8 hours later though. Not immediate like the second one.

[NavajoRug]

13. That documentary was an ooutstanding piece of work . . .

The most compelling part about it was the actions of the Battalion Chief on the scene of the gas leak in the street. As soon as he saw the plane hit the building, he knew that it was not an accident -- if you have a chance to watch the documentary again, you'll hear him on the radio in the fire engine calling to the dispatcher and making sure that they understood it was NOT an accident.

[kanrok]

24. Another compelling part of that documentary:

When they were in the tower at the time the first one collapsed. It was horrifying. It was also interesting because of a LACK of explosions heard on film at the time of the collapse. Someone here was asserting that the towers came down because of "timed explosions." This documentary is proof positive that that wasn't the case.

[NavajoRug]

25. I remember that . . . What was even more bizarre was that . . .

. . . when Tower 2 collapsed, they fled outside from the lobby of Tower 1 and still had no idea what had happened. When they looked up and saw the huge column of smoke and dust, they assumed that Tower 2 was still standing, shrouded in the cloud. If I remember correctly, they originally thought that the noise/debris/dust/smoke all over the place was from a section of the top of Tower 1 that had broken off the building and fallen to the ground.

[Jersey Devil]

3. There was footage of the first hit's immediate aftermath

As I recall there was a documentary film taking place in lower Manhattan and the plane flew almost directly overhead. Thought I never saw any footage of the plane actually hitting the building when the plane hit and a tremendous explosion occurred the cameraman aimed at the WTC and caught the fireball from the first hit and then its aftermath. But this was not shown for quite some time after the event.

[Hieronymus]

4. No

and yes, Bush lied about seeing it.:thumbsdown:

[frogfromthenorth2]

5. Source for that please?

[Cannikin]

7. The DVD is called '9/11' And you do see the first plane hit..

not just the fireball. I just checked to make sure. You can get the documentary at any retailer with a good DVD selection.
It's wonderful. I believe CBS broadcasted it a while back. It has footage from inside the towers, and they were in the second tower lobby when the first tower fell and recorded it. Its a fascinating DVD. Be sure you get the one by Jules & Gedeon Naudet, because there are quite a few 9/11 DVD's.

[LTR]

34. Very good DVD

Started out as a documentary of the FDNY, but turned into something else entirely.

I HIGHLY recommend it!

[iverglas]

10. on a quick google -- transcript

here: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/bushlie.html

Well, Jordan (ph), you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my chief of staff, Andy Card -- actually I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. And I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on, and I use to fly myself, and I said, "There's one terrible pilot." And I said, "It must have been a horrible accident."

But I was whisked off there -- I didn't have much time to think about it, and I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my chief who was sitting over here walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower. America's under attack."

There's a link for the audio, too.

The video of the first plane that I have seen -- that was first seen well after the time of the events -- was taken (forgive my ignorance of the precise geography) from somewhere south of the WTC, on an island - ? - and I believe was amateur, but I'm not certain. The plane crosses from left to right when it hits the tower, I believe.

I'm not going to click on this one because CNN crashes my antique netscape:
http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/first.plane.hits.gp.med.html
"First plane hits World Trade Center"

Ask Google for "first plane" wtc video and you'll get more stuff. Here are the results I got:
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22first+plane%22+wtc+video&meta=

.

[Columbia]

6. What difference does it make

if he misspoke about which plane he saw? IMHO this kind of trivial discussion detracts from where the real deceptions are and doesn't further our cause.

[THUNDER HANDS]

12. there's more to it than that

I brought this up in a poly sci class....

Bush said, if I remember correctly, something to the effect of: "When I saw the plane go into the towers I thought it must have been a really bad pilot" or something like that.

Except he couldn't have seen the first plane hit because there was no footage of it at the time.

and

There would be no way he would have thought it was a bad pilot if it was the second plane he was referring to. By then, even a person as slow as Bush would have caught on to the fact that it was a terrorist attack.

My teacher just kinda stared at me when I told her that. She wanted to refute it, but struggled to find a way to. She also remembered Bush saying that the afternoon of the attack.

[RedSock]

16. bush saw first plane

He said he saw the first plane twice, the one above and this one, about 1 month after the first admission:

On January 5, 2002, Bush stated: "Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida ... and my Chief of Staff – well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane..." (White House, 1/5/02)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/01/20020105-3.html

read about bush on 9/11 here:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html
i cowrote it with paul thompson.

[arcane1]

17. if what he saw was really the 2nd plane..

then his complete, utter INACTION during the crusial minutes that followed is even MORE treasonous. Only a moron would've thought "terrible pilot" after the 1st. After the 2nd, nobody with more than one neuron would think so

and fucking George Bush said and did NOTHING

[Kazak]

26. Uh...

Is that as big of a slip as it sounds like? Maybe he did see the first plane hit...

[maveric]

28. From a govt surveillance camera?

All set and readied for the pyrotechnics show? :tinfoilhat:

That would'nt surprise me at all.

[Cannikin]

14. And I have to agree...

Politicians talk out there arses all the time, mostly reading what's put in front of them from there writers. More than likely somebody TOLD Bush about the attack, but that doesnt sound as good as telling them how emotional you were while WATCHING it. Its just P.R. & B.S. ...I'm afraid it wouldn't help you with any conspiracy.

[arcane1]

15. he didn't "mis-speak"

he lied

there was no video of the 1st plane hitting until well after the whole attack was over. Bush said he saw it on tv, then Card came in later and told him about the 2nd one.

every lie counts, IMHO

care to help us understand the deceptions you refer to, and what you can do for this cause of which you speak?

[Cannikin]

18. I challenge you to find a politician who hasnt lied to us...

I mean, I'm on your side, but this detail seems very trivial and wont get us anywhere. I think people have this idea of a president jumping up and barking instructions like captain Kirk or something. I really dont think it works that way. A series of advisors comes in and presents options or informs of actions already taken. What direct action should he have taken? I dont think the presidents actions would have been different no matter who was in the White House..or school house in that instance.
I think if we want to win the election, we can do it with more solid issues.
We're already being made to look like nit-picking Bush haters, and they're doing a good job of it without these types of arguments to support them.

[arcane1]

20. of course

but I don't think anyone is trying to "go anywhere" with this. It is merely one of countless lies, distortions, and discrepancies surrounding 9/11, and each one should be explored, IMO. I agree that of all the Bushian dishonor, this quip about the first plane is minor, but that is no reason to ignore it. There is a 9/11 commission going on right now, and forewarning is one of the things they are looking into. In that respect, every single syllable that Bush utters about the event is relevant.

That said, as far as I know nobody is trying to base the 2004 elections on this, or anything like that, so I don't think there is anything to worry about. Look around on DU, you'll find PLENTY of issues that further this cause. It's no reason to ignore this one, though.

you ask: "What direct action should he have taken?"

well, for starters, they told us 1,000 times in the days following 9/11 that ONLY THE PRESIDENT can order a plane shot down.

Did Bush ask Andy Card what the hell he was talking about? No, he said NOTHING.

Did Bush tell Card to go out and give the shoot-down order? No, he said NOTHING.

Did Bush even bother to try to get any additional info? No, he sat there and said NOTHING.

Did Bush order NORAD to start patrolling the sky? Did he wonder why the hell SOP was not being followed? Did the dumb-ass even KNOW that SOP wasn't being followed???

No, he sat there and said NOTHING.

If Bill Clinton had sat there like an idiot, as if Card had merely asked permission to use the restroom, I believe the Repubes in this country would've literally assasinated him for such derelection of duty.

But Bush says he didn't want to scare the kids, and the Repubes say "bless his holy heart"

:puke:

I'm sorry, but I have a hard time believing that "the presidents actions would have been different no matter who was in the White House". Are you saying that ANYONE in that position would've just sat there, silent and incurious, and continue to listen to schoolchildren read??? After all the warnings they had? After the massive defensive posture in Genoa? After the July and August briefings? After the Hart/Rudman report?

Incompetence is the LEAST I am willing to grant them.

[Bozola]

21. Huh? Nit-f*cking-picking?

about the idiot lying about his inaction to the biggest terrorist attack on this country ever?

By gawd, I at least expect the CiC to pull his thumb out of his ass, stand up, and say "By gum, that's an issue. Someone do something about that".

What did he do? Read a picture book to a bunch of kids while 3,000 people died. Once his handlers pulled their heads out of their asses and realized that Chimpy was still on TV, they claimed some bogus threat against Air Force One, packed up Commander Bunnypants and skedaddled to Bumfuque AFB's Official Hidey Hole(tm). Long after the brown stains were washed from his shorts, in an effort to spin his blithering incompetence into a better light, he and his handlers lied about their actions; not once, but a couple of times. The just plain f*cked.

Yeah, sure. That's nitpicking. The idiot royally f*cked up, and then to add insult to injury, he lied like a baptist minister caught with a prostitute.

[karlschneider]

23. Well, what if YOU had been POTUS at that moment. Would you have

done anything differently? Or, to put it into a somewhat more plausible scenario, suppose you were the Fire Chief of a large city, sitting in a kindergarten class reading to kiddies and somebody came in and said "a bomb has just blown up the main Fire Station."

Just sit there like a stupid bump on a log? I can't imagine anyone in that position doing essentially nothing.

Of all the theories concerning this, Shrub's inability or unwillingness to get back on AF1 immediately and get back to work (not to mention the failure of ADC to get some air defenses in play for about an hour) is indicative of, at the very least, gross incompetance and at most, well, you figure it out.
:grr:

[TomNickell]

19. It -is- a lie and the Repubs would have made a big deal if....

Clinton had made a similar 'misstatement'. Since it hasn't got much traction for the Dems 'til now, it's probably not going to make much impact.

Some folks see this as evidence that 'Bush Knew'. I've never managed to figure out why.

[Cannikin]

22. Well, if you really want a conspiracy......

I'm not entirely convinced he didn't give a shoot down order...or at least SOMEBODY issued one. Get the pilots in here to talk about the inconsistencies with the Pennsylvania crash. Now THAT one gives me pause...well, that and a terrorist passport turning up in the rubble.

I've always felt the President was just a figure head anyway. They ALL seem to just sit there until someone whispers in there ear.

Bottom line, whether he lied, mis spoke or what, we'll just look like whiners to the rest of the world. Like the last post points out, they all do it, if we start picking every statement apart, they'll do the same. If we want to discredit someone, let it be there spokes person..Rush!

Trust me. I want him out of power just as bad as you do. Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers.

[TomNickell]

29. Don't know that my feathers were ruffled....

I can't think of any President as inert as this one. People who make it to high office usually have initiative, self-motivation, skills.

It's not impossible, but it would be hard for the military to have covered up a shoot-down of the plane over PA. Too many people would have to know. If they shot it down, that fact will leak out eventually.

I mentioned the conspiracists because such talk discredits legitimate questions.

[Q]

30. After eight years of Republicans questioning everything Clinton...

...said or did...why the willingness to give Bush* a pass on such blatant malfeasance?

- You intimate that 'ALL' presidents would have just sat their listening to children as thousands died. This is just more excuse-making and defense of Bush's* lack of action as commander in chief.

- Perhaps THIS president is just a figurehead...but he's also the CIC and has a duty to respond to national emergencies such as this and make sure everyone else is doing their job.

- The 'Bush* knew' people have every right to be suspicious about his lack of response. It appears as if he's actually HELPING the terrorist by making sure that nothing stands in their way.

[wunnerfulrobin]

27. I dont think Bush would have said he saw it........

........unless he meant on the tape. EVERYONE saw him in the classroom when he was notified of the planes hitting then towers by one of the lackeys. After eading the quote, i feel like he saw the tower after it was hit, because i remember my roommate walking into the room moments after it hit the TV and saying almost the same thing about a "bad pilot".

[seixon]

32. Stop reading too much into things people...

Seriously now guys...

You heard Bush stuttering before he said that about watching it on TV. That gives a clear indication that his answer wasn't quite prepared and he may have said something incorrectly.

The first plane hit the tower at about 8:56am. Bush got to the school at 9am. I'm going to say 100% for certain that he saw a TV broadcast of the tower burning and them saying it was hit by an airplane. Either that or him being told by someone or heard on radio, etc.

Of course he didn't see it live on TV, no one did.

We all know that Bush sucks sometimes at public speaking... don't make exceptions to fulfill conspiracy fantasies...

What Bush meant to say was "I obviously saw the attack on TV (meaning what happened) and thought what a bad pilot, must be a horrible accident"

I was notified by a teacher at my school that a bomb-attack had occured at the WTC. Just as a pointer to how dialated the reports can be and how people interpret information...

[FlaGranny]

33. That might make sense the FIRST time he said it.

But then he repeated it a few weeks later. Of course, the only thing that is really proof of is even more gross incompetence and/or possibly self delusion.

[Bozola]

35. Sure...uhhuh....

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html


Rewriting History

The many accounts of what happened to Bush on 9/11 are riddled with disinformation of false threats, omitted details, fudged timing, and more. But around September 11, 2002, the heavily publicized first anniversary of the attacks, there was an obvious attempt to further rewrite the story.

Chief of Staff Andrew Card claimed that after he told Bush about the second World Trade Center crash, "it was only a matter of seconds" before Bush "excused himself very politely to the teacher and to the students, and he left" the classroom. Card also stated that Bush "quickly excused himself to a holding room." In a different account, Card said, "Not that many seconds later the president excused himself from the classroom." The Booker school video shows these statements are lies - unless "a matter of seconds" means over 700 seconds!

Sandra Kay Daniels, the teacher whose second-grade classroom Bush visited on 9/11, told the Los Angeles Times that after Card informed Bush of the second crash, Bush got up and left. "He said, 'Ms. Daniels, I have to leave now.' ... Looking at his face, you knew something was wrong. I said a little prayer for him. He shook my hand and left." Daniels also said, "I knew something was up when President Bush didn't pick up the book and participate in the lesson." However, the Booker video clearly shows that Bush did follow along after being told of the second plane.

The New York Post reported, "A federal agent rushed into the room to inform the president of the United States. President Bush had been presiding over reading class last 9/11, when a Secret Service agent interrupted the lesson and asked, 'Where can we get to a television?'" Daniels then claimed that Bush left the class even before the second crash: "The president bolted right out of here and told me: 'Take over.'" When the second crash occurred, she claims her students were watching TV in a nearby media room. This article is riddled with errors. As mentioned previously, the Secret Service was already watching the second plane crash live on television in an adjacent room at 9:03 - long before this supposedly happened. Nor did Bush "bolt" out of the room; in fact, even pro-Bush author Bill Sammon called Bush "the dawdler in chief" for taking so long to leave the room.


Bush shows a CBS reporter around Air Force One as part of his 9/11 anniversary interview.

Bush himself took part in the historical revisionism. In an extensive video interview shown on CBS's "60 Minutes," he again repeated his bizarre belief that he was watching television when the first crash took place. CBS also revived the false story that terrorists had broken Air Force One's secret codes, even though it was CBS who debunked that same story nearly a year earlier.

[Q]

36. Bush* fans should be made aware of this revisionism...

...and be made to face the truth. The Bush* administration is LYING when they say he was rushed out of the room on hearing of a second attack. The VIDEO shows that he did nothing in response.

- Why would they expect Americans to believe such BOLD LIES? Because you'll never see the damning Booker School video on mainstream television. Instead...they'll invent a myth about that day and repeat it until it becomes 'truth'.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

38. There is a very good chance that...(link to quote inside)

...Junior did indeed watch the first plane crash into the WTC. The Chimpster's limo is loaded with all of the latest communications gear, including closed-circuit television. At the time of the first plane's impact, Junior was in the limo on his way to the Sarasota, Florida, elementary school. For Junior to have seen the first plane hit the WTC, he would have had to have been watching closed-circuit television linked to a camera trained on the WTC towers. And if he WAS watching the events unfold, he would have had to have had advance knowledge.

But, to believe that, you'd have to believe Bush not only knew about the 911 attacks in advance, but let them happen on purpose.

Gosh. Now who would believe anything like that?

<http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/12/20011204-17.html>

Excerpt (close to the bottom of the webpage):

"THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on. And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident.

But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it. And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, 'A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack.'"

Junior makes a clear distinction between the first and second planes, does he not?

[paulthompson]

37. Sexion,

Read this essay Redsock and I wrote:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

There are at least seven different official accounts of when he was first told and what he was told. The watching it on TV story is not just him sucking at public speaking. It is one of many lies covering up his behavior that day.

Why does it matter? Bush's popularity rests on the myth of him being the hero of 9/11, when in fact he was the cowardly goat.

Read this essay from The Nation for much the same info as the above essay (I wonder if the author read ours before writing it). If the mainstream media pointed this stuff out, Bush's popularity would fall like a house of cards, because everything he does rests on the 9/11 myth.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml%3Fi=20031006&s=alterman

(Note that the author of this, Alterman, writes for Newsweek, even doing the cover stories sometimes, but his "scary" articles like the one above only get published in the ghetto of the Nation, preaching to the converted. We can't possibly say bad things about our great leader in Newsweek!)

As for someone in an earlier post asking what did it matter really what Bush did right then, consider the words of the fighter pilot who was (supposedly) speeding to NYC. Had he arrived a few minutes earlier he would have beat Flight 175 to the WTC. But the pilot pointed out that it would have been a moot point because Bush couldn't give the order to shoot, as he was in a photo op reading a book with some children.

A more active president certainly would have had Flight 77 shot down. That plane was known to have been hijacked and speeding to Washington for more than 30 minutes before it crashed, and still Bush didn't give any shootdown order until 20 minutes after that crash.

[Bozola]

42. My hat's off to you. That was an excellent essay.

Damn fine bit of work there.

[Kathleen04]

31. I thought that..

the 1st plane was caught on film. When I tuned in..the plane was hitting the second tower and at first the news people seemed to think that it was a replay of the first tower being struck.

That's what I remember.

[plaguepuppy]

40. First plane on film?

Until just this summer the only known clip of the first plane crash has been the one filmed by the Naudet brothers, who had been making a documentary for several months about Engine 7, the firehouse closest to the WTC. It was actually shot in professional wide-format video rather than film, and it was part of their final documentary. Engine 7 was first on the scene at the north tower after the first plane, and the documentary includes them in the buildings and narrowly escaping both collapses.

http://www.frenchculture.org/tv/programs/naudet911.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2236210.stm


Here are some other excerpts from the film:

http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/collapse%20update/Engine-7.htm

They also happened to catch the collapse of WTC-7 that afternoon:
http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/video%20archive/wtc-7_collapse.mpa

[RoeBear]

41. Very similar to my recollection...

...I was working, the TV was on, someone said a plane hit the WTC. I watched a little bit and thought 'what an awful accident'. Then a fellow employee said the 2nd tower has been hit. I looked up and said 'you must be watching a replay of the first tower being hit'.
Then as I paid closer attention I realized that she was right and this was something ominous.

[Bridget Burke]

39. Yes, Bush stated that he saw the first plane hit---

Before he went into the classroom. He said it twice, as documented in this thread. And no tapes of the first crash were available until later in the day.

However, I'm really touched by all our new friends' concern that we're hurting "our cause" with this crazy conspiracy talk. All this can be cleared up easily enough.

Condoleeza Rice has indicated that she doesn't want to testify under oath at the congressional investigation. She would really prefer not to testify at all in public. While considering whether to let her get away with this, the committee has indicated that the current President & VP, plus their predecessors, may be allowed to meet with the committee in private.

Would President Clinton really insist on this? After the questioning he underwent about Monica, would he be embarrassed? He does his homework & speaks well--let him speak. I also believe that Albert Gore would be quite informative; he can also be quite eloquent.

Then, of course, question the current pair. Under oath, on national television. Ask them some hard questions & let us hear the answers.

[Abe Linkman]

43. Our "friends" aren't concerned about any such thing, Bridget.

They have a much different "cause" than we do.

[Bridget Burke]

44. Yes, I'd figured that out.

I thought "friends" was a more polite word than the ones that first came to mind.