Parrallel con-trails, what the heck are they?

[webDude]

in my 48 years, I have seen parrallel con-trails only twice. Once, about 3 months ago, there were about 5 parrallel con-trails, eqi-distant, up in the sky, in the afternoon.

Then, a couple of days ago, there were 2 parrallel con-trails.

I do not know of ANY legit reason why there would be 2 or more jets flying the same direction at the same time, at a VERY far-apart distance. Does anyone know what is going on?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. military, in formation

[Dancing_Dave]

50. Yeah, I live near a military base and see those frequently...

More lately, obviously the military is practicing more maneouvers.

I hope Dick Cheney doesn't have them all confused...

[eternalburn]

2. Did it look like....

.... this ?

[Jacobin]

7. LOL

Don't spoil this thread with factual explanations!! The guys who flock to these threads are a hoot to read!!!

:hi:

[eternalburn]

8. Oops....

...sorry, my bad :)

[havocmom]

15. No, not multiple trails from one jet, but several jets, on parallel course

flying about 30 seconds to 2 minutes apart. I see them over Eastern Montana all the time the past 2 years where as weeks would go by without seeing contrails before that. It is uncommon if there is NOT residue of 9 to 12 trails at any given time.

Generally in true east/west directions here, but occasionally on a diagonal NW/SW course.

At night, I see very high flying jets doing due north/south flights in a grid pattern. Am close enough to Canada that these puppies just about have to be going into Canadian air space as well. Not satellites, not that high and flight pattern not the same.

Can't decide if they are trying to create some cloud cover in a time when we are seeing the desertification of the west get stepped up big time or if the US military is under orders to fly and keep jet fuel prices high. I can think of good arguments for either of those reasons.

Have you seen the satellite pictures of the US in the days following 9/11/01 when all commercial and private flights were grounded? The comparison of those to pictures taken when all the normal flights are up is astounding. Clear skies, even over the eastern megalopolis. I know somebody learned something from that. Perhaps there is an effort to nudge Mother Nature along the trail to rainstorms while not publicly admitting there is something to global warming and the problems it will bring, particularly to agriculture.

One can also observe that there sure has been a tendency to make air travel by average citizens as unpleasant as possible while not really improving security. And airlines are hurting, partly from increases in fuel prices. With just a little bit of tin foil on my noggin, I can see how the junta would like to cut back on the ease with which the American population can move about. There have been enough cases of people on no fly lists with no particular profile likeness to any terrorist groups, but a tendency to publish or speak public ally from a liberal platform.

Could there be more flights because they want to keep fuel prices high enough to keep the masses from doing much traveling? :shrug: but I wouldn't discount the possibility.

Then there is the question of surveillance and electrical monitoring. Is DUer Redstone in the house? Any ideas on that subject, my friend?

[eternalburn]

18. Have you looked at this gallery?....

...here ?

I looked myself but couldn't find anything close to your description.

[havocmom]

26. There are a couple pics there with the parallel pattern similar to what

I see here. I grew up in Southern Calif so I have seen a lot of trails and also the beautiful vapor trails swirled in the wind and lit by sunset from missiles sent up from Vandenberg AFB. I have watched a lot of planes, jets, satellites and even a UFO over Pt. Mugu which had fighters and ground techs stumped and scrambled for over 6 hours. I love to watch the sky.

What I see now are fighters and large jets, flying a grid, precisely timed at the same altitude and course, all equal distance apart. I know the difference between a fighter and a passenger jet. These are often low enough that I can see wing shape. NOT passenger aircraft! NOT at 30-40 thousand feet.

Also, recently saw some putting out 6 trails. I assume those would be big ass bombers? Do we still have any B-52s up? Wings don't look the same as the B-52s though. (Lived in Tucson for years as they were bringing those things into the bone-yard there) Not up on current bombers. What have we got with 6 jet engines?

Also several sightings of Lear jet/prop jet flying from the north on a due south course, VERY low, I mean barely missing some of the little buttes around here. (we are rolling prairie/badlands here, not big mountains like the western part of MT). Not a lot of people in this area but the few that are here are outside a lot. Hearing many people about the prop jet flights. They are always early morning and always running due south. Wonder about drug runners. The border with Canada is not a real busy place.

[eternalburn]

28. A suggestion.....

...Perhaps you could invest in a radio scanner. That way you could monitor regular aircraft/ground frequencies and rule out some of the flights that you are unsure of.

Admittedly you wouldn't be able to listen to military stuff but it might narrow the field a bit.

[havocmom]

29. I sit in a bowl and cannot get radio, nor do I have income for scanners.

The internet is my lifeline to the outside world

I can tell most military from the airlines when the things are flying low enough to see the wing configuration. I do know the difference between fighters and say a 747. Don't need a scanner for that. :eyes:

[webDude]

32. Click on their FAQ's link, go dn 3 pages and read about "parrallel lines"

it is in there, and a lot of sightings in Houston, where I live.

[dbt]

3. Your Government wants you to know that they are only

"Persistent Contrails." Please do not ask any more questions. Shop now.

;-)

[patcox2]

4. Yes, its called airplanes following established flight corridors.

Funny you have never seen it before. I see it almost every time the weather conditions are right for the formation of contrails.

[wtbymark]

5. They're spraying, some say seeding the atmosphere

something about the ionisphere

[vincent_vega_lives]

39. I wonder why

People who think this, are never scientists or engineers?

[HereSince1628]

6. Could it just be a lot of traffic on a particular route...

not giving the trails enough time to dissipate before the next ones were created?

[seemslikeadream]

9. Just a couple of trails?

I'd like to know also.

[Desertrose]

22. yeah, like just your average flight paths....

The planes from your pic were all no doubt going to the same airport...or maybe leaving all at the same time... :evilgrin:

Check this out...


"Cruising at 20,000 ft. Captain Alcon points out Chemtrails above from the cockpit of one of the major airline carriers. Alcon has been a pilot for decades in both military and commercial aircraft and says he knows the difference between a contrail and a Chemtrail."  

[RT Atlanta]

10. Can see it in ATL right now

I work in Buckhead and can see many contrails in the sky. Nothing more than atmospheric conditions and established flight corridors.

[RebelOne]

21. No, you are seeing the jet trails from Dobbins and NAS.

I'm looking at some right now. I work right across the street from Dobbins.

[RT Atlanta]

33. Not the ones I was referring to...

Those are commerical liners that I watch fly the same routes every day. Unless the aircraft were already en route somewhere, I doubt the military aircraft from Dobbins and the NAS would be producing contrails at TO/Landing altitudes.

[parasim]

11. You mean like these?

Here's five flying simultaneously in a grid pattern... or maybe it was God playing Tic Tac Toe...?

Seriously, though, I've wondered the same thing. I've seen skies like this only in the last few years. I'm guessing some sort of cloud seeding experiments?

[tubbacheez]

12. Wings passing through nearly-saturated clear air...

... temporarily change the properties of the air so that clouding froms in the wake of the passing wingtips.



The most simple explanation is Post #4. You're just seeing typical air traffic, but the weather conditions made the view more interesting on those days.








Me personally, though, I prefer to think that Goddess decided to sky-write a 5-line musical staff on the celestial blackboard to celebrate the song of springtime, and then a few days later God put up a giant "equals" sign so as to not leave out the more left-brained folks from enjoying the facilities.



But that's just me.



:)

[Minstrel Boy]

13. might want to look at this:

Lots of people wondering similar things here:

http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=f9a66a30c5cc7c12181667d9bb441901

[donsu]

14. there are con trails and chem trails

con trails go away quickly

chem trails linger a long time

chem trails are used for: making communications better for the military

the other kind is some kind of bushgang black op

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

24. chem trails are used for: making communications better for the military

Yes, as previous normal tin-can-and-string method was inefficient.

[RaleighNCDUer]

16. Didn't you know? That's the UN's occupying army, stationed in

Wyoming. The Bulgarian Air Force, patrolling American skies in black, unmarked jets.

[Steel City Slim]

17. On Vectors

You are probably used to seeing them converge, as aircraft normally fly from one navaid to another. The parallel contrails would indicate that the Air Traffic Control had put two or more aircraft on parallel courses. That is called vectoring.

[Desertrose]

19. Thanks for looking up and noticing webDude...you aren't the only one

who has been seeing things that make ya go "huh??!"

I have seen this more & more frequently since about '99. I am questioning why I see these things laid down in specific patterns & grids and then my beautiful blue sky disappars behind a thin greasy grey cloud cover....that was started by these "contrails".

Please check out this thread if you are interested in more discussion

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3321982&mesg_id=3321982....

[RebelOne]

20. I was just outside looking at 3 parallel contrails.

But of course, I work across the street from Dobbins Air Reserve Base, so I guess that sort of explains it.

[Jersey Devil]

23. Inter-galactic tic tac toe

The Martians have the "X" and the Klingons have the "O"

[libertypirate]

25. Yeah well... The missinfo can't change the physical nature of matter

Think about how persistent the atmosphere is? It is in a constant state of flux and movement. Ask your self why then do some contrails dissipate and others do not?

Now if you pass something through a liquid that alters the temperature and thus density of the liquid why or what would cause it to not attempt to reach equilibrium?

The contrails of today are just not acting as we expect them, the various gases suspended within our atmosphere don't remix. Why? Why don't similar mixtures of gasses at different temperatures and densities recalibrate themselves to coincide with each other in this case?

The only explanation is that the contrail has to contain substances that don't persist naturally in the mixture of our atmosphere. Why do I come to this conclusion? If you open a court of oil and pour it into a bucket of water what happens? They don't mix, and they remain that way. This is not due to the properties of density and temperature being different although they are; this is due to the fact that they are different substances.

Different substances generally require external sources of energy and manipulation to become mixtures. In the case of oil and water it's a very weak mixture. Simply because both are liquids, it doesn't make the two substances easy to meld into one. Substances that are made of the same things, meaning the same matter, do mix easily; like contrails and the surrounding atmosphere. Even mixtures of the same liquid in different densities and with a high difference in their temperatures easily move towards equilibrium; water and ice. Why don't these persistent contrails dissipate?

[tubbacheez]

31. Sorry, the atmosphere does not behave like your oil and water experiment.

Passing something through a fluid (liquid or gas) might or might not change its properties enough for you to notice a difference.

This is more than simply chemistry. Fluid dynamics are at work here too. The contrail ARE reverting to equilibrium. But the time it takes is dependent on several factors.

The pressure and altitude matter. The temperature matters. The humidity matters (a lot). The shape of the wings matter. The speed of the aircraft matters.





Long-lasting contrails can and do occur when the conditions are right, such as when the air is on the verge of forming clouds. In this case, shoving a wing through the air at sufficient speed will be the catalyst that creates the clouds that were almost ready to form anyway.

And if the atmosphere is already so cloud-friendly, these contrails can persist for quite a while before all the water vapor reverts to less visible form.

[libertypirate]

35. Sure it does, and I don't have to see something to know it happens

I can agree that an atmosphere near saturation could and does spontaneously as a reaction to a change in the environment form clouds. Clouds generally form via a persistent difference in temperature between two distinct large volumes of matter; notice I didn’t say the same matter which is also possible. I live near the ocean and well it does a great job maintaining pretty consistent conditions and almost everyday we get the persistent contrails and the non persistent type.

When water vapor becomes visible in the atmosphere this means there has been a density change, which also means a temperature change, and a volume change; where is the energy being released from the airplane to do that permanently? What constitutes two regions within the same mixture of matter to not attempt equilibrium when they border each other?

I get what you are saying what I don't get is where does the energy come from to stabilize the water vapor into these sustained clouds. I don't know if you have spent anytime looking at clouds but they are unstable formations to begin with. I hope you are not suggesting that the airplane transfers or even contains enough energy by it self to create a cloud from horizon to horizon? Even if there is enough energy to form a cloud how then do these volumes remain structured more then seconds? Structures all structures must constantly fight the forces that work to tear them apart.

Are you suggesting that the volume surrounding the contrail does not influence a much smaller volume of the same material in a consistent manner?

[vincent_vega_lives]

40. 1940s chemtrails???

[libertypirate]

42. Those are nice pictures...

They don't none of them resemble a chemtrail... At least my experience.

Chemtrails for some fucked up reason flatten from their centers. Where as those above are spreading evenly.

They seem to flatten from the center and then thin, very wide and flat. It is not the same pattern as in the pictures.

Also take into consideration the shape of those contrails which they may not be. They could be clouds that sit between a low and high pressure zones, dense moisture between cold and warm air. None resemble the long line that stretches literally from horizon to horizon.

[vincent_vega_lives]

45. Contrails

The condensation trail left behind jet aircrafts are called contrails. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. The mixing is a result of turbulence generated by the engine exhaust. Cloud formation by a mixing process is similar to the cloud you see when you exhale and "see your breath". The figure below represents how saturation vapor pressure varies as a function of temperature. The blue line is the saturation vapor pressure for ice as a function of temperature (in degrees Kelvin). Air parcels in the region labeled saturated will form a cloud. Imagine two parcels of air, A and B as located on the diagram. Both parcels are unsaturated. If B represents the engine exhaust, then as it mixes with the environment (parcel A) its temperature and corresponding vapor pressure will follow the dotted line. Where this dotted line intersects the blue line is were the parcel becomes saturated.

If you are attentive to contrail formation and duration, you will notice that they can rapidly dissipate or spread horizontally into an extensive thin cirrus layer. How long a contrail remains intact, depends on the humidity structure and winds of the upper troposphere. If the atmosphere is near saturation, the contrail may exist for sometime. On the other hand, if the atmosphere is dry then as the contrail mixes with the environment it dissipates. Contrails are a concern in climate studies as increased jet aircraft traffic may result in an increase in cloud cover. It has been estimated that in certain heavy air-traffic corridors, cloud cover has increased by as much as 20%. An increase in cloud amount changes the region's radiation balance. For example, solar energy reaching the surface
may be reduced, resulting in surface cooling. They also reduce the terrestrial energy losses of the planet, resulting in a warming. Jet exhaust also plays a role in modifying the chemistry of the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere. NASA and the DOE are sponsoring a research program to study the impact contrails have on atmospheric chemistry, weather and climate. In this series of satellite images we will investigate the duration of contrails. The satellite images are from the GOES-8 visible channel. Each image is separated in time by approximately 15 minutes. The GOES-8 image has a spatial resolution of approximately 1 km. The satellite image is a view of upper mid-west including southern Wisconsin and northern Illinois. Madison is located on the image. Contrails were observed from the ground during this period. At this wavelength, the GOES-8 imager is measuring the amount of radiant energy reflected by the surface and the clouds. The whiter a given portion of the image, the larger the amount of reflected visible light. White portions of the image represent thick clouds and dark regions are water or heavily vegetated regions. Contrails show up on the image as white streaks, similar to how they appear from a surface view.


When you view this image of 1846 UTC, notice the individual contrails labeled A and B


In this image 30 minutes later (1902 UTC), both these contrails exist, as well as others


By 1932 UTC, these contrails still exist. Also notice how the contrail labeled C is spreading. Notice also that these clouds are generating shadows. Since we know the position of the sun, we can use these shadows, to calculate the height of the clouds that cast them. A 3 1/2 hour time sequence of the contrails generated on this day.

[libertypirate]

46. You all don't get it....

Where is the energy to sustain cloud formation?

No one likes this question.

[hunter]

27. Just a Job to Do... (Genesis)

It's no use saying that it's alright, it's alright.
But where were you after midnight, midnight.
Heard a Bang, Bang, Bang; Down they go
It's just a job you do
Cos the harder they run, and the harder they fall.
I'm coming down hard on you.

Now no-one saw what you looked like, what you looked like
Like a stranger you came out of the night, out of the night
Cos someone put the word on you, and I hope my aim is true.

Cos I got a name, and I got a number, I gotta line on you
I got a name, and I got a number, I'm coming after you

Don't keep saying that it's alright, it's alright,
It seems you went just a little too far this time
Heard a Bang Bang Bang, and down you go,
It's just a job I do,
Cos the harder you run the harder you fall,
I'm coming down hard on you, hard on you - I hope my aim is true.

I got a name, and I got a number, I got a line on you
I got a name, and I got a number, and I'm coming after you

Keep running, Keep running; city to city
Even if you're innocent,
You can cause too much embarrassment
And though your heart is breaking,
And you know there's no mistaking.
Cos you feel your life line breaking (keep running, keep running)
You can feel your hands are shaking (keep running, keep running)
And no-one answers the telephone
You can never never ever go home alone
and though your heart is aching
and you know there's no mistaking.

The footsteps close behind.
Now don't pretend that you sleep at night, but sleep tight
And can't you feel that the time is right, it's alright.
Heard a Bang Bang Bang, and down you go
Oh no-one really cares

Cos the harder you run, and the harder you fall.
I'm coming down hard on you, hard on you - I'm hoping that my aim is true.

I got a name, and I got a number, I got a line on you
I got a name, and I got a number, I'm coming after you
I got a name, and I got a number, I got a line on you
I got a name, and I got a number, I got a job to do.

[hunter]

30. Damn Right!

Whenever I can spook the moderators, it's a good day!

I took that picture, BTW.

[mikelewis]

34. The contrails are used to communicate with ground forces

The air force uses these contrail formations to communicate with ground forces. A commander can quickly locate an area that is in need of suppression by looking at the contrails without the need of radio communication. An area with parallel lines is all clear and an area demarcated with an X is in a condition of unrest or unknown. I'm not sure what they all mean but they have been very active over the skies of Cleveland for about 8 months now. Everyday there are contrails and military fighters patroling the skies. On a clear day you can make out the types of planes with a pair of binoculars.

[OneBlueSky]

36. why do chemtrail/contrail threads keep getting moved . . .

to the 9/11 folder? . . . there's no relationship whatsoever . . .

[ExCiber]

38. New name for this forum.

Bad science central

[Desertrose]

43. evidently all unanswered questions get dumped in here 911...

I see no correlation to 911 myself but I guess TPTB think we have all gone :tinfoil: because we don't accept the answers everyone else does....

:shrug: too bad....I think most of us just want to get some answers & the truth...looks like this is their way of telling us to just shut up & go away.

I mean seriously, who in their right mind believes what our govt/media tells us?

[dbt]

44. That's a damn good question! Here's another one:

Why are the most outrageous LIHOP/MIHOP theories, for example, left generally alone over in GD while any post mentioning the CHEM WORD (booga! booga!) is lately--and rather quickly--moved here?

dbt
Committe On Noticing Spray Programs Involving Real Aircraft Calculated Yearly

[ExCiber]

37. Amazing

Anybody who was watching the sky about 8:30 AM in central NC saw something very similar.

All the north bound traffic left a persistent trail from about 10 degrees elevation to about 80 degrees. All the trails were just about parallel to each other with what I would guess to be about 5-10 miles separation. Each one started about the same elevation and ended about the same time too! Not one single northbound plane had a normal contrail.

The strange thing is that all the south bound traffic had normal contrails.

What are the options?

A) All northbound traffic was diverted from NC so the top secret black op planes (which fueled in the south last night) could dump their mind control powder.

B) The mind control powder is really being dumped by commercial aircraft and they were all loaded south of NC last night.

C) Air traffic follows well controlled routes with specific altitudes and lateral separation for N to S, S to N, E to W, W to E direction. The altitude for S to N traffic had the proper temp. and humidity conditions for persistent contrails.

[mikelewis]

41. The contrails I was speaking of are made from fighter planes.

Here's it looks like over my city on any clear day.







After the accidental strafing in New Jersey last year, I have become very concerned about an accident. We have over 2 million people living over thier training ground. An accident could have catastrophic consequences. I don't care if they're spraying mind control over our population. Hopefully, it'll cut down on crime. What concerns me is a fighter jet loaded with bombs malfunctioning and crashing into the Terminal Tower.

http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/warplan/2004-December/002647.html

The report, obtained by The Associated Press, also disclosed there have been three other incidents this year in which an F-16 (search) pilot unintentionally fired during nighttime strafing missions. No one was hurt in any of the incidents{Yet}.

[WoodrowFan]

47. buy a chemtrail dissipater

buy a chem trail dissipater. The guy at this site sells them
http://educate-yourself.org/dc/orgonegenindex.shtml
(it'd down now, must be a plot!)

[ExCiber]

48. The problem with that solution

They'll get rid of the chem trails but then you have to deal with all them frigging black helicopters and bright lights all night.

You may want to buy a few and place them in the neighbors yard.

[WoodrowFan]

49. that's a great idea

knowing my neighbor's yard, they'll NEVER spot them! I can hide it amid all the broken lawn mowers!