Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"The deep state does not respond to FOIA requests"

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 08:19 PM
Original message
"The deep state does not respond to FOIA requests"
Interesting article:
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/beaconnews/news/blogentries/index.html?bbPostId=B1ghrr2nKXlgCzAxJ6JhFH8utCz2nH27BOC6G5B2A0qlAQFgaZ

In an attempt to get to the bottom of what really happened on 9/11, citizen investigator Aidan Monaghan has filed dozens of Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests with federal agencies such as the FBI, SEC, Department of the Navy, and the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey. Agency after agency has refused to comply with his requests, instead claiming that the information cannot be found, does not exist, was never properly filed, or even, from the FAA, that it was simply “not in a position to release said records at this time.”

The Freedom of Information Act was signed into law by President Johnson in 1966. It mandates that information held by federal agencies must be made available to any citizen requesting it, unless that information is exempt. The Act specifies nine reasons why any given piece of information could be exempt, such as invasion of personal privacy, trade secrets, anything related to the supervision or regulation of financial institutions, and anything that could compromise either law enforcement or national security. In addition, the FBI has put an exemption on all of their 9/11 information and will release information only if compelled to do so by a lawsuit, of which Monaghan has filed two.

Despite the persistent stonewalling, Monaghan has turned up some interesting discrepancies. While it was widely reported in the media, such as by USA Today, that the flight data recorder (FDR) also known as the “black box,” for American Airlines flight 77 (the plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon on 9/11) was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.

When Monaghan filed a Request for Correction with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and pointed out this disparity, his request was denied and an explanation offered that the file was created as a routine procedure prior to finding the FDR. However the FDR file indicates three parameters: date created, date modified, and date accessed. The “date created” and “date modified” fields are both listed as 11:45:38 pm on September 13, 2001, indicating that no data was added later, after the FDR was found. The “date accessed” field is blank.

This is, Monaghan says, “sufficient reason to wonder if the information is faked.”

Monaghan has also established that the NTSB does not have either serial or part numbers for the FDRs from American Airlines flight # 77 or United Airlines flight # 93 (which allegedly crashed in Shanksville, PA). This is highly unusual, in fact, according to Monaghan, there is only one other occasion in the past 20 years when the NTSB report for a airplane crash did not contain the part and serial numbers for the FDR. That was, oddly enough, exactly ten years earlier, on September 11, 1991, when a Continental Express flight broke up in mid-air, killing 14 people, when the horizontal stabilizer failed. The accident was blamed on the negligence of Continental’s maintenance and inspection crew.

The NTSB’s own handbook indicates that the part number and serial number of the FDR are required for data readout of the FDR. The NTSB did not have this information, giving us another reason to question how the FDR data was created.

(Continued at the link)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. That's a lovely rabbit hole - nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I love how truthers get hung up in these small details
And completely ignore everything else, such as the photos of the debris found both inside the Pentagon as well as the lawn.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/pentagonattackpage2
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. No one "ignores" that debris
Edited on Sat Oct-31-09 08:39 AM by spooked911
the problem is that
1) there is not enough debris for a massive 757
2) the debris has never been verified to be from AA77

Skeptics who doubt the plane story think that that debris was planted.

But the bigger issues is that there ARE various discrepancies with the official story-- there are more in the linked article.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HannibalCards Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Actually
1) Yes, there was.
2) Yes, it has.

How exactly do these skeptics think the debris at the Pentagon was planted?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. care to back that up with some proof?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Certainly
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't see where it says they matched a part serial number to plane N644AA
nor where they add up the debris and show a complete 757.

FAIL.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Fail?!?
You obviously didn't look very close, since you managed to miss
"The part in question is the power supply for the emergency lights. ...I assure you it was Flight 77, AA 757 5BP."

5BP was the fleet number of N644AA.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Yes...
I would like an official statement that the part is from N644AA, not some Randi forum statement by "AMTMAN".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Why?
You'll just say that it's faked and that they're lying.

Why do you need any further confirmation? There is no confirmation that will satisfy you.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. I would be satisfied by more pictures of the debris that must have been recovered
if the official story is true. They should have these.

A picture of some random crumpled object in grass, without context, is not convincing and is not legally admissible evidence by itself.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. which actually gets to the original point
the govt shouldn't be so secretive-- unless it is really trying to cover up the fact that it was a hoax
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. The hint is in the username AMTMAN
AMT = Aviation Maintenance Technician

He would possibly have the insight into what part numbers belong to what aircraft.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. do you know the guy?

Can you rule out he isn't a govt agent trying to prop up the official story?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Yes, Spooked....
AMTMAN is a "government agent" planted at DU in case any DUers get "too close to the truth"!

Serious question: do you ever stop to listen to the ridiculous things you say?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. I didn't know he posted here
I thought he posted at the JREF forum. That was the post in question, anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. How can you be ruled out as a government agent trying to plant distractions? nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. I deny that I am "a government agent trying to plant distractions".
You can believe my denial, or you can think I'm lying. I don't give a flying fuck either way.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. If you deny it...
that means it's true.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. uh, no
but believe what you like
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. Why are you denying it, then?
Why not just let it slide?

How does it feel to have the shoe on the other foot, dude?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. why should I let it slide?
it doesn't bother me if you accuse me of being an agent, as I know it isn't true
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. The fact that you're denying it....
proves that it's true, dude!

Oh, wait...I forgot...you don't like when we apply "truther Logic" to you, do you....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. except that I never used that logic
I have other reasons for questioning your motives.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-05-09 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. I'm pretty sure that...
"questioning someone's motives" is against DU rules, Spooked. In any event, it's just standard "truther" smear tactics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. It may be against the rules
but it doesn't mean I can't think that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. You can think whatever the fuck you want, Spooked....
In the meantime, I think you might want to avoid verbalizing it here. Keep your paranoia to yourself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. tee hee
you funny
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. I'm not as funny as....
your goofy claims and theories, dude.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. you use the word "goofy" so much
I'm wondering if it means something different to you than the standard definition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #49
50. Nope...
the standard definition fits just fine, especially when applied to your bullshit, Spooked.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-07-09 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. Self-delete
Edited on Sat Nov-07-09 10:26 AM by SDuderstadt
accidental dupe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. You aren't answering the question.
I didn't ask if you care what I think, I asked how you can be ruled out as a government agent trying to plant distractions.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. my point was that if you don't want to believe my denial, you can't
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I don't normally bother with noplaners
But most of the stuff Monaghan didn't get, seems like having more to do with him not knowing who to write to for the data.

Incidently, I love that the OP's blog post leads to Rock Creek Free Press. That site seems nuttier than squirrel.. well.. you-know-what.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Yeah
The bush admins have been very forthcoming with all the details. Everyone who still seeks answers just hasn't yet worded it right.

That explains a lot.

&&&&&&&&&&&&
Gawd, you folks are so far away from the truth it makes you spin like a top.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Well, when you develop actual proof of your goofy claims, dude...
let us know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-02-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I see an ignored, here
No use replying to an ignore. Heck, the system won't allow it. DU rules!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. One example
The flight data of the planes used on 9/11. The data he recieved made it quite clear, that it was only data for the last full year for which it was available. Since none of the planes flew for the rest of 2001, logic dictates that the last full year of flying would then be 2000. The data for 2000 was then provided and the noplaners went into a spin, claiming that none of the planes flew at all in 2001, and how it meant that they had probably been taken out of service to be fitted with remote controls etc :eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #26
43. Huh? Quoted from OP
Despite the persistent stonewalling, Monaghan has turned up some interesting discrepancies. While it was widely reported in the media, such as by USA Today, that the flight data recorder (FDR) also known as the “black box,” for American Airlines flight 77 (the plane that allegedly hit the Pentagon on 9/11) was found at 4 am on September 14, 2001, the file containing the FDR data was dated over four hours earlier. In other words, we are asked to believe that the data from the FDR was downloaded prior to the FDR being found.

When Monaghan filed a Request for Correction with the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and pointed out this disparity, his request was denied and an explanation offered that the file was created as a routine procedure prior to finding the FDR. However the FDR file indicates three parameters: date created, date modified, and date accessed. The “date created” and “date modified” fields are both listed as 11:45:38 pm on September 13, 2001, indicating that no data was added later, after the FDR was found. The “date accessed” field is blank.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. So?
I have files in my documents folder whose "Data modified" is earlier than the "Date created".
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Neily Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-03-09 03:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
28. You have to admit...
That such information should be freely given and any attempts to divert FOIA without just cause does lend itself to "create such CT's"

In addition... The information does create questions which he outlined in a very clear cut fashion. Could be innocent. Could be more. Who knows...

Lest we not forget that our government was created by us, for us, etc... and they are merely the admins of our life (or are supposed to be). So can we avoid labeling those who are exercising their duty to question the powers that be as anything more than citizens.

Think of it this way.. the Federal Government is comparatively our personal assistant or executive secretary. If you walked up to your hired hand and they refused to answer the questions or diverted for any unworthy reason, what would you do?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-04-09 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Think of it this way
If you walked up to a mailman and asked him to account for the bidding process to resurface a section of your local highway, you wouldn't get any answers either. Why's that, if he's a part of the government?

Monaghan is aking the wrong people for the info he wants.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #33
46. that's not true
Monaghan isn't dumb.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KDLarsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-06-09 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Probably not
I'm not sure of the relevance though?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. yeah
nothing suspicious about that
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. My comment was a reference to
the book "Alice's Adventures in Wonderland"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. so what?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 06:50 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. I just get the sense you fell into a rabbit hole
To a fantasy world where the anything can happen. The main difference of course is that Alice awakes from her dream.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. except I am not dreaming about all the discrepencies noted in the article
perhaps you are the one in a dream world
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-30-09 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. FLight 77 and 93 didn't exist so that doesn't surprise me
I don't know about the plane in 1991
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue May 07th 2024, 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC