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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-12-09 10:30 PM
Original message
"What Exactly Happened On 911"?
Lately on another thread truthers were asked...
Why are you still completely unable to answer the question - "what exactly happened on 911?"

Here's my attempt at an answer, it's still sort of a rough draft, it may be expanded and/or modified. It might be nice if it was all hyperlinked.

WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENED ON 911?
by Kalun Darwin

Probably just like the Kennedys we'll never know exactly what really happened on 911. The only ones that can completely answer the questions of an unsolved crime are the perpetrators. So as long as the perpetrators or their descendants remain in power they can't let the truth be known. All we can do is theorize, so here goes the story of the largest criminal inside job in the history of man.

First we'll establish the need of an enemy, real or perceived. The Russians were the perfect enemy for years, but they folded and ever since that time the US MIC has been looking for an enemy because if you don't have one there's nowhere to throw those $1MILLION dollar cruise missiles. And if you're not wasting missiles, you're not making money.

Now at the same time there's this search on for an "enemy" we have a two birds with one stone scenario coming to the fore. OIL. The world oil supply, at least discovery is peaking and will decline. Therefore to counter emerging developing nations like China we have to fight for control of that oil. So the MIC needs an enemy, and the US oil corps want to further control of oil reserves, because we are oil pigs. So find or create an enemy near the middle of the worlds largest oil reserves. Enter Al CIAduh and Arab "terrorists". It's the perfect multiple birds with one stone.

Looking back at recent history Americans have always been hesitant to go to war. There has to be a reason, there has to be an enemy at least perceived as real. The Death-Skull NeoCons who are all heavily tied to the two interests in question, MIC and OIL, are in need of, as Kissinger put it, "a new pearl harbor, even if we have to create one". To give a face to, and foment anger of, this new perceived enemy. The "new pearl harbor" reference is very telling because real history reveals that it was an intentionally provoked event and our defenses were stood down so it would be successful. The Gulf of Tonkin incident among many others is another example of false or exaggerated US historical events which led to war.

The MIC needs a new enemy and the OIL corps need oil located in the middle East. So how to frame some middle East Arab "terrorists" is the multi $TRILLION dollar question. And "terror" is the new perfect enemy because the easy target 3rd world countries the MIC pursues usually fold like houses of cards, they don't last. You need a flexible movable "enemy", one that transcends national boundaries. "Terror" is perfect because anywhere you need military intervention you can just claim "Al CIAduh is here!"

Back to hesitant Americans and the need for a cataclysmic catalyzing event to rouse the rabble into support of military tyranny. Enter the WTC. It's perfect. In the largest heart of America, New York City. The targets are also physically the largest and already historically known as "terror" targets. They symbolize to many the money, power, and success of America. There's other birds to stone as well. The towers themselves while admirable are in truth real estate dinosaurs. They contain asbestos, their entire aluminum facade is oxidizing because it contacts the steel, and they just aren't configured properly for office rental. They can't be demolished either because of the asbestos, they have to be dismantled which is magnitudes more expensive. In addition we have WTC-7 which houses the most evidence in any one central location to the ongoing persecutions of the largest crimes in the nation's history. Namely the CIA, FBI, SEC agencies and the crimes of Enron, Worldcom, the OIL corps in Iran, etc. etc. The NeoCon Death-Skulls also need a control headquarters to run the day's controlled demolition events from, WTC-7 is perfect for that as well.

The Pentagon is also chosen as a target. On 9-10 Sect of Defense and head Neo-Con Death-Skull Rummy announces publicly that $2.3 TRILLION has gone "missing" on the Pentagon's books, you just can't make this stuff up. Hopefully they moved all those cooked books to the wing that was destroyed, how convenient. Then with new world record chutzpah Death-Skull Rummy, on the evening of 911 no less, right after admitting to "losing" $TRILLIONS, goes before the Senate Armed Services Committee and berates them for inadequately funding the military. The $BILLIONS have been flowing to the MIC ever since.

The whole thing potentially starts years earlier with the Oklahoma City Federal Building. That was a test run with the exact same MO as 911, just on a smaller more manageable scale. The cultivated patsies, the public target with innocent victims, the delivery vehicle with the perceived attack medium, a truck bomb. The hidden pre-planted bombs within the building to achieve most of the actual destruction. The control of the crime scene after the attack. The procurement, removal, suppression, and destruction of all the evidence. The pursuit and prosecution of the designated patsies. The control of the media and public opinion during and after the event. Once this goes successfully you have some valuable lessons and experience, and it's on to the main event. You don't go straight to the majors and a world series, you start in the minors.

So break 911 down into it's base elements. Cultivated patsies, public target with innocent victims, public perceived weapon(s), hidden destruction mechanism, normal defense control and stand-down (additional element, not as important at OK city), control of crime scenes/evidence; acquisition-removal-destruction-suppression of evidence, identification-pursuit-prosecution of designated patsies, control of media and public opinion during and after the event.

THE CULTIVATED PATSIES
The cultivated patsies are 19 Arabs. Some or all of them are "Al CIAduh" because the MIC needs to put a name on the enemy. Among the 19 there are most likely several "double agents" because you can't depend on incompetent shoe bombers who can barely fly Cessnas to pull off the biggest inside job in history. They have to at least be guided and led by highly competent insiders. These patsies are in country for months before the event and they are so bumbly they have to be protected by high echelons at the FBI to keep rank and filers from apprehending and locking them up. If they were on the planes, the real Arabs may not have even been told the planes were going to be destroyed, they could have been on a "training" mission to ensure no-one would back out of a real suicide. Or just some random hijack event that didn't end with a crash. If indeed there was need to control the cockpits, the double agent leaders would have done the job. They would most likely have been Israeli Mossad due to their probable willingness to die for the cause of the Israeli state. As opposed to US agents which would be more problematic to find as willing suiciders for the cause of the MIC and OIL.

One other facet of the double agents as pilots would be the Neo-Con Death-Skull Silverstein and his ownership of boarding concessions at the departing airports. If the possible double agents needed guns to overpower the Vietnam Marine Vet airline pilots the guns could have been brought on board through these concessions. Another curious event that occurred during the early summer of 911 was the change in rules, taking away permission for guns to be carried on-board by airline pilots.

There's another theory or possibly combinations of two theories in regards to the hijackers and the piloting of the planes. There is remote control technology in existence, UAV(Unmanned Aerial Vehicle) and ROV(Remotely Operated Vehicle) with "Global Hawk" flying just months before 911. Full size jets have been flown entirely by remote control, takeoff, full length flight, and landing with not a single person on board. It's interesting to note that one of the higher ups directly involved with this technology was on flight 11 that supposedly went into the Pentagon. It has also long been a design concept to configure passenger jets which are equipped with a mechanism to take control from the pilots and switch it over to remote control in case of hijackings. If these technologies were used you wouldn't need any patsy hijackers on-board, or competent suicidal double agent pilots. All you would need would be to configure the airliners with the technology, take control from the regular pilots, fly them into the targets, and then "name" the "hijackers" after the event.

The different combinations of these theories would be; Patsy hijackers with double agent pilots flying the planes, some unwitting patsies on board and then use remote control to hit the targets, no patsies and only double agent pilot(s) in the cockpits, or no hijackers at all and UAV flying the planes.

THE DESIGNATED TARGETS
The public target with innocent victims is the twin towers and Pentagon as already discussed. The 4th target was most likely the DC capitol building. They already controlled the White House so the only opposition after the fact could have been congress. The targets of the anthrax attacks being the congressional leaders of the opposition to the Patriot Act. It's easy to gain control of one office like the presidency but much harder to gain control of multi member bodies like congress.

THE OVERT "WEAPONS"
The "terrorist's" publicly perceived weapon of official record was the 4 passenger jets. Most likely equipped with ROV technology. The only major problem that occurred with the 4 planes was that 2 of them were delayed before take-off. Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was delayed 10 minutes and flight 93 that was shot down over Shanksville PA was delayed 42 minutes. Consequently 77 appears suspicious in that it should have easily been intercepted given the mornings events at the WTC. It would have been way worse if 93 had hit the Capital building, making the defense stand-down totally obvious. Therefore it had to be shot down because if it had landed safely the passengers and crew would have told a far different story, probably one of a loss of cockpit control and a subsequent ROV.

THE HIDDEN DESTRUCTION MECHANISM
The hidden destruction mechanism was pre-placed hidden explosives and cutter charges in WTC 1, 2, and 7. The twin towers were top down un-conventional controlled demolitions. WTC 7 was more of an advanced technology but conventional bottom up demolition. The twin towers had to be rigged for demolition collapse because it was known beforehand that the plane strikes alone would not achieve that. First the towers were purposely designed to take a full size passenger plane strike and remain standing. Secondly it's a known fact that fires do not come close to collapsing steel frame buildings that are built with 5 to 10 times design redundancy strength factors.

The twin towers probably had cutter charges very near the impact points to initiate collapse. Maybe one or two floors above or below. You would only need a couple of floors to completely and suddenly collapse to start a complete gravity powered collapse. You would probably also need to use cutter charges at regular intervals on the core all the way to the basement because it's the primary support of the building. The cutter charges were most likely thermite or nano-thermite with wireless detonation controlled from WTC-7. Thermite was used much more than a conventional demolition to avoid the outward appearance of conventional demolition explosions. But explosives were also involved, numerous eyewitnesses including firefighters testify to multiple timed explosions during the collapse and huge explosions coming out of the basements beforehand.

The need to precisely target the buildings with the planes was a necessity due to the positioning of the pre-placed charges, this might favor the remote control piloting of the planes theory. If the planes were conventionally piloted it means they had to be covert ops, the training level of the supposed Arab pilots wasn't close to the necessary level of competence evidenced that day, especially at the Pentagon.

WTC-7 was a bottom up controlled demolition again relying heavily on thermite cutter charges because it could not have the outward appearance of conventional demolition explosions. It was bottom up because there was no large impact from which to start a supposed spontaneous collapse. Again WTC-7 was collapsed for 2 reasons, it contained case evidence to some of the largest ongoing criminal prosecutions in the nation, and it was the command center for the WTC attacks and demolitions.

It's also interesting to note that NeoCon Death-Skull "pull it" Silverstein closed the deal of the private ownership of the WTC complex just weeks before 911 (WTC 1-2, and 7). This was the first time in the WTC's 30 year history that ownership passed from government to private hands. He also locked in a lucrative insurance contract in case of terror attack. Funny how all 3 of his buildings collapsed in unprecedented fashion, AND the taxpayers picked up the clean-up bill, how convenient.

During the month prior to the attacks there were several complete power downs, which would have disabled security cameras and electric secured doors. In addition there was unusual "construction" happening on entire floors, and at times the normal bomb sniffing dogs were curiously absent.

Marvin Bush, the Death-Skull Bush boy's younger brother, was a principal in Securacom (Stratesec) that provided security for the WTC, United Airlines, and Dulles International. According to one of it's CEO's, Barry Daniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the WTC, "up to the day the buildings fell down."


THE DEFENSE STAND DOWN
In cases of in-flight emergencies like hijacks the FAA immediately requests a NORAD intercept. From Sept '00 to June '01 there were 67 of these requests, all of these requests resulted in a NORAD scramble and intercept. An average of more than 100 per year. The average time from scramble to intercept is normally less than 10 minutes. "Emergencies" are defined by things like; diversion from planned route, loss of radio contact, loss of transponder. Any one of these raises a red flag. All 4 of the planes on 911 had all 3 of these red flags. From the time the first plane was a confirmed hijack until flight 77 struck the Pentagon was over an hour. This is with Andrews AFB under 5 minutes away, the headquarters of Air Force one and defenses of the highest profile targets in the nation like the white house.

In addition not one of the 8 pilots and co-pilots activated any of the ELT's (emergency locater transmitter), where a 4 digit code signals a hijack in progress to controllers and activates additional locating devices besides the transponders. This might indicate ROV control because some of these systems are designed to de-activate the ELT's.

Just "coincidentally" on the very morning of 911 there were at least 10 and as many as 15 military exercises underway. Numerous fighters were in the air in other locations, seriously reducing the number available for scramble in the event of real trouble. At least one of these exercises involved hijacked planes crashing into buildings. At least one of these exercises had been re-scheduled from it's normal time later in the year to the day of 911, it has since been re-scheduled back to it's later date. The 911 Omission Report mentions several of these drills, but examines none of them in any detail. How easy would it be to confuse radar defenses that the real attacks were merely training exercises if there were at least 10 of them in progress?

The defense department's story of what happened on 911 has changed 3 times. The 3rd version is the 911 Omission Report. The most damning testimony was given by Norman Mineta, Obama's head of the CIA, who was Sect of Transportation at the time. Mineta testified he heard a young aid several times ask Chief Neo-con Death-Skull VP Cheney "does the order still stand?" Mineta said he thought this meant a shoot down order for Pentagon bound flight 77. But this totally doesn't fit with the Pentagon's explanation that they were uniformed about flight 77, since it was obvious that the secret service was tracking 77 given the aid was continually informed of it's progress. Cheney's order was a stand-down order.

Of course the 911 Ommission Report, being the sham that it is, makes absolutely no mention of Mineta's damning testimony, and no wonder since it was controlled by the Bush designate/insider Death-Skull Zelikow, and the final report vetted by the white house, as one of the conditions of the Death-Skull Bushies allowing any "investigation" at all.

THE CONTROL OF CRIME SCENES/EVIDENCE
The control of acquisition-removal-destruction-suppression of evidence at the WTC, the Pentagon, and Shanksville PA. One of the most blatantly obvious and most damning of circumstantial evidence is the suppression of hard evidence about 911. Starting with the WTC, where even minimal forensic investigations were delayed for weeks and removal of debris started within a couple of days. Where the NTSB always conducts a forensic investigation with any large plane crash, NONE of the 4 planes had ANY NTSB investigation. In other words, the experienced specialists who could have told us exactly what happened concerning the planes were not allowed to do their job. Where obviously there was evidence of explosions in the towers, including numerous firefighter eyewitnesses, exactly NONE of the WTC steel was forensically examined for explosive or cutter residues. Where almost in it's entirety the WTC steel was removed and disposed of or sent to re-cyclers. So even if you could excuse the lack of credible forensics how do you conduct a case where the evidence is removed before investigation and destroyed.

The Pentagon, probably one of the most heavily video surveilled locations on the planet, and ZERO video footage of any Boeing 757 hitting the building has ever been shown. Probably because not only does it show highly advanced flying skills which the alleged Al-CIAduh Arabs did not posses, in addition, if UAV technology was employed, it might show the plane to be flying with empty cockpits. So the lack of video, in addition to being a textbook case of disinformation, also is a necessity because surely it doesn't jive with the "official" story.

Another glaring example of lacking evidence is airport video of the 19 Arabs boarding the jets. Again airports being public areas with a very high level of video security. Potentially the "hijackers" should have been recorded at baggage check in, at the security gates, and at the boarding gates. An average estimate would be over 1 dozen cameras in total. 19 Arabs passing by a dozen cameras each and not one single frame of authentic 911 hijacker video has ever been presented. The 2nd biggest lack of evidence concerning the 19 Arab patsies is the lack of any hijacker names on the airline's released passenger lists. Normally the airlines release full manifests within hours of catastrophic crashes. None of the lists directly released by the airlines include any of the hijacker's names.

The Shanksville PA crash site also leaves more questions than answers. With the crash of an intact airliner the debris field is generally no more than about 20 square acres. The debris field in this case spreads over 6 square miles, only like what you would see with a plane that had been shot down and exploded in midair. The supposed impact site itself doesn't come close to showing the normal volume of debris of an intact crash and dozens of eye witnesses describe evidence of a midair explosion. A midair shoot-down would truly fit into the expected scenario. As already mentioned, since flight 93 was unexpectedly delayed for 42 minutes before takeoff, it couldn't get to target in time without dramatically exposing the necessary defense stand down. And it couldn't be allowed to land safely because then passenger and crew would testify to either false hijackers or a ROV takeover of the flight controls. In other words, dead people tell no tales.

IDENTIFICATION OF DESIGNATED PATSIES
The 19 Arab hijackers were ID'd within hours of the event, in spite of the head of the FBI's assertion that "we don't have any hard evidence linking the 19 to the events of 911". In addition 7 or 8 of the ID's were shown to belong to people still alive and living in other countries. In other words, many of the ID's were false. And none of them have been confirmed with hard evidence. In fact the FBI admitted at first that some of the names were suspected false ID's but they've backed down from that admission without changing any of the names. In addition as previously discussed there's ZERO video evidence of the 19 patsies boarding the planes.

Another glaring nugget of evidence is that Bin Laden's most wanted page on the FBI's site does not even list 911. And if you give even a small amount of scrutiny to the last 2 or 3 of the videos that "Bin Laden" supposedly released including his "911 confession video" they are obvious glaring fakes. In an attempt to cover up their illegitimacy the quality of focus and lighting is far below what Osama had provided up to that point, and even with the poor quality it's totally obvious the person in the videos is not Osama at all, but a poor look-a-like. It's gotten so bad that "Osama" has taken to releasing only audio recordings, and even those when independently studied are shown to be fakes.

CONTROL OF THE MEDIA
Control of the media and thus public opinion has long been a centerpiece of the military industrial complex's ongoing efforts to subjugate the masses, and 911 was of course no exception. George Orwell was indeed very prescient, control is achieved almost entirely with the television. Only 30 short years ago the majority of the media was owned by over 50 separate companies. Now that ownership, of 90 percent of the mainstream media including all TV, has been consolidated down to only 5 owners in the US. And those 5 owners are either part of the MIC or directly tied to it. In other words the people who directly profit from the wars brought about by the cataclysmic events of 911 are the very ones telling us "what really happened" on 911. 90 percent of the public gets their news from the TV, and the MIMC controls over 90 percent of that TV. This fits in with the common rule of disinfo, it only needs to convince about 90 percent of it's target audience.

Eisenhower warned us of the MIC, which now should more accurately be called the MIMC (Military Industrial Media Complex). The consolidated ownership is also an important point to realize, when only 5 corps control all media, anyone within the MIMC only needs to convince 5 CEO's that their story is the way to go. Otherwise when you have more than 50 owners like previously, it's a bit more like herding cats, and not near as expedient or certain.

A myriad of evidence of the official conspiracy theory or OCT being falsely pushed by the corp media is well documented. Mostly it shows up in the stories that only appeared one time on usually out of the way sources. Damning stories that were never repeated ever again in the mainstream. Things like the pursuit of insider trading, and the 7 alive hijacker ID's among many others. Nothing less is to be expected when the perpetrators control the reporting of what happened concerning the crime.

CONCLUSION
Anybody who is at all familiar, beyond a basic lay person's level, with aspects of architecture and engineering, or military defense and commercial flight looked at the events of 911 and, after the first shock wore off, saw that things were just not as officially described. Questioning knowledgeable individuals looked further for evidence that their eyes were not being deceived, and found on the powerful world wide web, extensive and detailed evidence that 911 is the biggest inside job in the history of man. Many of these individuals have gone on to document and expose what they've learned to the average person on an easily understandable level. The more you look, read, and observe, the more and more evident it becomes so glaringly obvious as to be absolutely and irrevocably irrefutable.

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB















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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now it's quite apparent why you aren't taken seriously...
even by the "truth movement".
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Please substantiate your claim that Kalun
Kalun D is not taken seriously in the 9/11 truth movement?

Also, is that response the best you can come up with?
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. I'll second that request...
:hi:

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. You heard what I said...
n/t
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. Prove it. Also,
I actually did not "heard" and you actually did not "said".
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. It's a figure of speech, dude.
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 09:30 AM by SDuderstadt
It's also a little silly to maintain something I wrote isn't something I "said".
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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Yes, please.
Prove it. OP is very well done and all you have is a lying accusation.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #1
71. I don't take you seriously...
SDuderstadt
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Damn...I don't know if I can go on.
n/t
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. I give You credit for having a sense of Humor
Edited on Wed Jun-17-09 10:53 PM by number6
;)
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 05:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. Please back this up
I think this is a only actual supposed fact posted.

as Kissinger put it, "a new pearl harbor, even if we have to create one".

Can you provide evidence he said this?

The rest of the OP is simply the fruit of an overactive imagination.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #6
13. You "think"?
I think this is a only actual supposed fact posted.

You "think"?, you must not be thinking very hard then, for instance;

Are you arguing that the media hasn't been consolidated from 50 to 5 owners?

Or that "terror" isn't the new enemy after the Russians?

Or that the NeoCons aren't tied to the MIC and OIL?

Or that Eisenhower didn't warn us about the MIC?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I guess that means you can't source the quote you posted?
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 12:04 PM by LARED
Are you arguing that the media hasn't been consolidated from 50 to 5 owners? irrelevant

Or that "terror" isn't the new enemy after the Russians? True, so what?

Or that the NeoCons aren't tied to the MIC and OIL? Lots of people besides Neocons are tied to oil and the MIC.

Or that Eisenhower didn't warn us about the MIC? True.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Retractions
I'll retract the Kissinger quote no problem

you need to retract this
I think this is a only actual supposed fact posted.

as you've just admitted to four other facts in the post, regardless of the other conditions you've now put on them.

Do you deny that something that is consolidated from 50 to 5 is easier to control?

Do you deny that most Americans source for the "facts" about 911 comes from the TV?

Do you deny that the TV is closely tied to and in some cases OWNED by defense contractors?

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Ok, you posted facts that I missed.
Do you deny that something that is consolidated from 50 to 5 is easier to control? Controlled? In what way, by whom?

Do you deny that most Americans source for the "facts" about 911 comes from the TV? Most American get all their "facts" from the TV. 9/11 is no different

Do you deny that the TV is closely tied to and in some cases OWNED by defense contractors? You think defense contractor control TV content? Really, got any evidence for that?

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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. CONTROL AND LIES
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 01:05 PM by Kalun D
"Controlled? In what way, by whom?"

Do you deny that the "news" has degraded since media consolidation, from facts to fluff?

Why would the owner of a business put a sign in front of his business that does not benefit him? Why would he not CONTROL the placement of that sign and CONTROL what that sign says?

What are you saying that these greed pig owners suddenly become altruistic once they gain ownership of a TV station and knowingly allow news to be presented that would dramatically hurt their bank accounts?

"Most American get all their "facts" from the TV. 9/11 is no different"

so if someone wanted to lie on TV the vast majority wouldn't confirm the veracity elsewhere?

"You think defense contractor control TV content? Really, got any evidence for that?"

Why are truthers so commonly asked for evidence to back up common sense points?

follow the money. Why would a capitalist company, that primarily exists to make more money, present information on a medium that they own, that does not help them to make more money? And why would they not present information that does help them to make more money?

And have greedy predatory capitalist companies ever lied to people that watch TV? Would a rich person lie to make more money? (LOLZ!)
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Answering a question with a question is not good for
dialog. Is it possible you could actually provide an answer to my question before you start asking me questions.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Reasoning
"Answering a question with a question is not good for dialog."

UNLESS the obvious answer to the 2nd question automatically answers the first question, in this case by common sense reasoning.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. It is only obvious to you.
and to add just because it is obvious to you only confirms your imagination seems to be running wild.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. The points
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 06:14 PM by Kalun D
when did our back and forth discussion of the points end and sidetracking about meaningless semantics begin?

with one of your posts?

I'll try to start the points up again

"Controlled? In what way, by whom?"

Do you deny that the "news" has degraded since media consolidation, from facts to fluff?

Why would the owner of a business put a sign in front of his business that does not benefit him? Why would he not CONTROL the placement of that sign and CONTROL what that sign says?

What are you saying that these greed pig owners suddenly become altruistic once they gain ownership of a TV station and knowingly allow news to be presented that would dramatically hurt their bank accounts?

"Most American get all their "facts" from the TV. 9/11 is no different"

so if someone wanted to lie on TV the vast majority wouldn't confirm the veracity elsewhere?

"You think defense contractor control TV content? Really, got any evidence for that?"

Why are truthers so commonly asked for evidence to back up common sense points?

follow the money. Why would a capitalist company, that primarily exists to make more money, present information on a medium that they own, that does not help them to make more money? And why would they not present information that does help them to make more money?

And have greedy predatory capitalist companies ever lied to people that watch TV? Would a rich person lie to make more money? (LOLZ!)
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Ok, lets start slowly
You said

Are you arguing that the media hasn't been consolidated from 50 to 5 owners?

I said

The consolidation of the media was irrelevant to what happened on 9/11.

You then said

Do you deny that something that is consolidated from 50 to 5 is easier to control?


I asked

Controlled? In what way, by whom?

You responded

Do you deny that the "news" has degraded since media consolidation, from facts to fluff? Why would the owner of a business put a sign in front of his business that does not benefit him? Why would he not CONTROL the placement of that sign and CONTROL what that sign says? What are you saying that these greed pig owners suddenly become altruistic once they gain ownership of a TV station and knowingly allow news to be presented that would dramatically hurt their bank accounts?

For reasons that are unclear you seem to believe your string of questions in response to my question; Controlled? In what way, by whom? in someway answered that question.

Let me rephrase the question. You have indicated the consolidation of the media allows better control of said media in ways that explain the 9/11 CT fantasy you advocate. How are they controlled and to what end, and how does this fit in with 9/11? Please try to provide a direct answer and skip all the questions.





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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #33
54. Only I Have to Answer Questions?
Edited on Sun Jun-14-09 07:33 PM by Kalun D
""You have indicated the consolidation of the media allows better control of said media in ways that explain the 9/11 CT fantasy you advocate.""

I don't know how I can make it any simpler, but I will try.

DEATH SKULL INC., a defense related company within the MIC wants a war so they can sell bombs and make money.

The masses don't want war, they have to be provoked to go to war.

Entities within the MIC fabricate a "terror" event in order to provoke the masses into war.

But the story of the terror event is a very complex web of lies and consequently it has to be "sold" in the TV media. Because that's where the masses get their "news".

DEATH SKULL INC. just happens to own a TV media outlet, so knowing the "terror" event will allow their war they are happy to go along. They "sell" the "terror" event on their media outlets. And they continually support the "story" because if they don't the truth will unravel it.

Now the owner of DEATH SKULL INC. has 4 friends and between them they own all the TV media, they are all rich and want to make more money, they all own or a tied to defense related companies within the MIC. They all know the "terror" event will allow war which will allow them all to make more money. It's much easier for 5 people to be on the same page as it is for 50 to be so. The bigger fish have swallowed all the little ones, now the consensus is monolithic, because these 5 owner know they can have more money and power if they work together towards the same ends. Where before it was diverse and consequently less likely to act with uni-directional force.



""How are they controlled and to what end, and how does this fit in with 9/11?""

How is any business controlled? By ownership? A few persons have bought all the TV, they own it, they can do whatever they want with it.

And if the masses all believe the TV then ownership of the TV means ownership of what the masses believe. This is all basic common sense ideas, Orwell put if very well, read "1984".

To what end? These people have money and power and it's never enough, they want more money and power, world domination.

How does 911 fit in?

DEATH SKULL INC wants war to make more money and power

war requires a "911 reason" or masses won't go along

Clandestine units within the police arm of the MIC create "911 reason" for war

and DEATH SKULL INC sells the story of it on their TV that they OWN/CONTROL

Because that's where the masses get their "information".

So the masses believe the "911 reason" and go to war.

And DEATH SKULL INC makes more money and power from the war on their way to their hoped for world domination.

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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Very well said, Kalun D.

True Believers will not debate the basic issues because that would require them to have to substantiate their position and

answer questions. Since most people here know that the evidence supports that 9/11 was an inside job, they know they can't

possibly win the debate on the merits. That leaves "them" with few options. Insults, trivial questions, irrelevant questions,

and baiting those who oppose them in hopes they'll get banned from the forum. Not exactly high-level argumentation.
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. Me thinks....
you selectively miss lots of facts that hinder your fight to defeat the truth movement! :eyes:
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Defeat the truth movement?
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 01:40 PM by LARED
That's not my fight. My fight is to fight BS and hinky science.
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. Yeah? Why the fuck do you care? n/t
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Because truth is important. - nt
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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. certain "truth" you mean.
only where 9-11 is the subject. And then only where there's a questioning of the OCT. :shrug:
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:19 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Dude, I'm a truth seeker from way back
The difference is you treat truth like an episode out of the show millennium.

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wildbilln864 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. well of course you are!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. Yes, indeed, Lared. If you say so, by golly, who among us...

could do anything but applaud you for being so candid. Humble, too.
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
7. Maybe you should issue an errata.
  1. Norman Mineta is not Director of Central Intelligence. Leon Panetta is.
  2. You probably are confusing Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger. Brzezinski made some comments about Pearl Harbor in his book The Grand Chessboard that may be what you're thinking of. I can't find anything with a quick google about Kissinger making a comment like that.

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Why Syzygy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. PNAC
It's mentioned many times in PNAC, the MIC's Bible:

Absent some catastrophic and catalyzing
event—a twenty-first century Pearl Harbor—the
process of transformation is likely to be a long
one.
http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:R4128Nx6zoUJ:www.newamericancentury.org/def_natl_sec_pdf_01.pdf+site:www.newamericancentury.org+%22pearl+harbor%22&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.newamericancentury.org+%22pearl+harbor%22&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3GGGL_enUS245US246

How ironic is it that the movie Pearl Harbor was released in 2001?
Pearl Harbor (2001) Touchstone Pictures
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yes, PNAC.
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 09:29 AM by eomer
I assumed that PNAC was well-known and not easily confused with Kissinger. Brzezinski, on the other hand, could be confused with Kissinger.

Either way, whichever one (s)he meant to refer to, it would be good to clarify it. No need for errors that are easily corrected to muddy the waters.

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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. I suppose
Edited on Sat Jun-13-09 11:31 AM by Kalun D
I do "confuse" Kissinger with the Neo-Con's, I think he espouses many of the same views even if he's not an official signatory.

He was called on to oversee the 911 commission at one time was he not?

Kalun is a male.

and I will clarify, this is just a rough draft due to time constraints, wanted to get it out there and get some feed back. There's some areas that need expansion and some that need correction to be sure.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Corrections
# Norman Mineta is not Director of Central Intelligence. Leon Panetta is.
# You probably are confusing Zbigniew Brzezinski and Henry Kissinger. Brzezinski made some comments about Pearl Harbor in his book The Grand Chessboard that may be what you're thinking of. I can't find anything with a quick google about Kissinger making a comment like that.

Mineta Panetta will be corrected, how about

"The defense department's story of what happened on 911 has changed 3 times. The 3rd version is the 911 Omission Report. The most damning testimony was given by Norman Mineta, who was Sect of Transportation at the time. Mineta testified he heard a young aid several times ask Chief Neo-con Death-Skull VP Cheney "does the order still stand?""

The Kissinger story is from a reporter who quotes Kissinger at a Builderberg meeting. I remember it from around 2002, don't know why it doesn't Google now. It's certainly something he could have said being he's the KING of the Death Skulls.

It could also be changed to make it exactly accurate...

"The Death-Skull NeoCons who are all heavily tied to the two interests in question, MIC and OIL, are in need of, as Brzezinski put it, "a new pearl harbor"."
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eomer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. Thanks, corrections sound good. (n/t)
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yep
Thanks, Kalun.

The truth be known. Very good Job.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Ponderous Reading
ponderously long, incoherent post

This is coming from someone who is asking us to read the 585 page 911 Omission Report LOLZ!

You know the one, that we all know is rubbish after reading just a couple of pages.

Are you trying to be SLAD's successor?

Who's going to be SDuderstadt's successor if he ever leaves?

I don't know who could make over half of his posts on the poster and not the content, and add the "flavor" of foul language, as effectively as the SDude.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. I see, Kalun...
so, you KNEW the 9/11 CR was ''rubbish' after ''reading just a couple of pages''? Could you be a little more specific about what you ''read'' that you just knew is ''rubbish''? I'm willing to bet that you didn't read a word of it and are content to just parrot whoever told you what to think about it without bothering to fact-check any of their claims.

Your credibility is sinking faster than the Titanic, dude.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-13-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. Dear Kalun....
I have been reading your treatise on what really happened on 9/11 and I think you forgot to include chemtrails.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
37. High scores on imaginative use in story
The "terrorist's" publicly perceived weapon of official record was the 4 passenger jets. Most likely equipped with ROV technology. The only major problem that occurred with the 4 planes was that 2 of them were delayed before take-off. Flight 77 that hit the Pentagon was delayed 10 minutes and flight 93 that was shot down over Shanksville PA was delayed 42 minutes. Consequently 77 appears suspicious in that it should have easily been intercepted given the mornings events at the WTC. It would have been way worse if 93 had hit the Capital building, making the defense stand-down totally obvious. Therefore it had to be shot down because if it had landed safely the passengers and crew would have told a far different story, probably one of a loss of cockpit control and a subsequent ROV.


So the perps were able to control the plane remotely, and were prepared to shoot down the plane just is case it was delayed or some other mishap thus exposing the stand down. But these masterminds were unable to ensure the planes departed close to on-time. They were also unable to crash the plane using remote control so had to shoot it down.

Yes?
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. Delays
""So the perps were able to control the plane remotely, and were prepared to shoot down the plane just is case it was delayed or some other mishap thus exposing the stand down. But these masterminds were unable to ensure the planes departed close to on-time.""

Who would pretend that there are not possible circumstances beyond anyone's control, especially with an operation this involved and complex? Ever heard of Murphy's laws? I thought they applied to everyone including Death-Skull Neo-cons?





""They were also unable to crash the plane using remote control so had to shoot it down.""

I believe, (and I'll have to check to be sure) that one of the common OCT arguments against ROV was that a highly informed pilot knows of or can find ways to over-ride the ROV?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
38. "design redundancy strength factors"
Could you expand on this a bit, I've never seen these factors in any design work I've done or seen.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
46. Design Redundancy
It's layman's terms sorry.

here I'll try to make it a little more technically accurate

STRUCTURAL REDUNDANCY FACTORS

oh and BTW Lared, thanks for pointing all this stuff out, you're honing my message!
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AZCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
79. Hmmm. What kind of redundancy?
n+1? nx2? Where have you read of these "structural redundancy factors" as applied to the buildings that collapsed on September 11th?
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
39. Please clarify
You would only need a couple of floors to completely and suddenly collapse to start a complete gravity powered collapse. You would probably also need to use cutter charges at regular intervals on the core all the way to the basement because it's the primary support of the building.


If you "only need a couple of floors to completely and suddenly collapse to start a complete gravity powered collapse", why would you then "also need to use cutter charges at regular intervals on the core all the way to the basement"?

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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #39
47. Rough Draft Corrections
Thanks Lared, you found another one.

THIS
You would only need a couple of floors to completely and suddenly collapse to start a complete gravity powered collapse. You would probably also need to use cutter charges at regular intervals on the core all the way to the basement because it's the primary support of the building.



WILL BE CHANGED TO THIS
You would only need a couple of floors to completely and suddenly collapse, in addition to the core cutter charges at regular intervals, to start a complete gravity powered collapse.

The cutter charges at regular intervals on the core all the way to the basement being necessary because it's the primary support of the building.

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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
40. Failed on imaginative use of characters
If the planes were conventionally piloted it means they had to be covert ops, the training level of the supposed Arab pilots wasn't close to the necessary level of competence evidenced that day, especially at the Pentagon.


Exactly how difficult do you imagine it is to aim a commercial airliner at an unobstructed building sticking 1400 feet in the air that is over 200 feet wide?





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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #40
48. Good Question
I've never done it but I've seen large planes flown on game consoles like Microsoft's flight simulator.

Large jets don't respond that quickly to course correction. The first jet came straight in, the 2nd jet had a sudden hi G line-up maneuver right before impact.

Another fact most lay persons don't realize is that these jets aren't normally flown at these speeds at sea level. They are designed to fly at 500 mph at cruising altitude, like around 50,000 ft, where the air is more than twice as thin as sea level. At sea level the normal speed is about 250 mph. The greater air resistance at sea level combined with higher than normal sea level speeds of 500 mph makes a relatively slow responding jet that much harder to control.

and did you see the caveat? "especially at the Pentagon" Several aviation experts have said even the most highly qualified pilots would have found the Pentagon jet maneuvers very difficult, in addition to the fact that normal flight control limitations on G-forces would have had to be overridden.

You say that these "terrorists" could have flown these jets when it's repeatedly been reported that they could barely even fly single engine Cessnas if at all.
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Both of you assume a cruicial fact that is not in the evidence

No credible evidence exists which substantiates that any planes crashed on 9/11, and merely saying that you believe there IS
such credible evidence doesn't prove anything.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. Cool, another no-planer
An axiom to live by "No planes, no brain"
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. Not cool. Another True Believer showing off his? ability to...

get away with insulting other forum members.
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snooper2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #51
70. curious
what do you do for a living?
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
41. sigh...
"They would most likely have been Israeli Mossad due to their probable willingness to die for the cause of the Israeli state."

Just disgusting.
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. I agree - nt
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. I thought that was a complement
I'm sorry if you took it any other way.

If someone believes they have a noble cause then are they not to be admired for their willingness to pay the ultimate price in support of that cause?

Whether you agree or disagree with the cause you can't question their dedication.

Americans have become far too complacent. These kinds of things are much more common where liberty is not so easily taken for granted.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Nonsense
You were throwing out the implication that the "evil jews" were involved in 9/11 without so much as some bullshit evidence to support the claim. You simply made shit up and thats disgusting.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. Sorry I'm Just Not Prejudiced
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 01:19 AM by Kalun D
""You were throwing out the implication that the "evil jews" were involved in 9/11""

There are no ethnicities that are evil, an individual yes but not a race. Just like all Americans aren't bad because we've had some bad leaders like the Bush boy.

You are aware of the 5 dancing Israeli's on 911 who were celebrating the towers being hit? Or do you get any news beyond the TV?

If you watch Faux News you might have caught Carl Cameron's series on the 200 or so Israeli spies posing as "art students" that were caught and deported around 911. Of course that story was scrubbed from TV and the website and never heard of again, but it's archived if you're curious.

Just like the US, Israel has some bad leaders. And they wanted us to bomb Iraq and they want us to bomb Iran.

And just like you should separate individuals from race, you should also separate the soldier from the Death Skull that sends him to war. IF there was Mossad on the planes(and that's not my favorite theory), they were just doing their job.



"without so much as some bullshit evidence to support the claim. You simply made shit up and thats disgusting.""

from the first paragraph of the OP "All we can do is theorize, so here goes"

theorizing is sort of like making stuff up but not exactly, guess not everyone understands the nuance sometimes.

Carl Cameron Investigates 200 Israeli Spies

5 Dancing Israelis-Mossad
reported by the NYT

hope I'm not linking to any banned sites, I know there's a list somewhere but I can't find it.

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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. "You are aware of the 5 dancing Israeli's on 911 who were celebrating the towers being hit?"
Dude...do you ever bother to fact-check ANYTHING?

http://www.911myths.com/html/dancing_israelis.html

If you watch Faux News you might have caught Carl Cameron's series on the 200 or so Israeli spies posing as "art students" that were caught and deported around 911. Of course that story was scrubbed from TV and the website and never heard of again, but it's archived if you're curious.



http://www.911myths.com/html/israeli_art_student_spies.html

Dude...you're like a poster child for various debunked conspiracy theories. When you read this crap (especially from FoxNews) do you ever bother to look for disconfirming evidence? Or do you just buy what you read lock, stock and barrel?
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. OH YEAH!!
that secret source website you keep linking to over and over

we all know the one, that won't show who runs or authors it.

They have to spin EXTRA hard to make a story about 200 spies go away.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #60
61. More of your bullshit, Kalun...
Do you know what FAQ stands for? Well, you can go there and it discloses the website's author and provides several ways to contact him directly. Again, so much for your bullshit...don't you get tired of constantly being proven wrong?
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #61
64. Goofy claims, silly posts, MYTH Makers

That's quite an embarrassment to upright True Believers, isn't it?
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #60
66. Oh, no. Your post is contrary to fact.
The author of that site provides his personal info(except for home address) on the site, but you haven't been able to locate it for some reason. That info has been posted here in this forum several times, and the author is also a DU member. Additionally, all sources are provided for the quotes at the site.
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #59
63. Spinning with the anonymous myth spinners


Dude yourself - that's one of the goofiest attempts to spin the news I've seen in a long time. Can't you come up with something

credible every once in a while? Anonymous experts! What'll the right kind of progressives think of next?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #63
67. Mike Williams isn't anonymous, dude
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 09:26 AM by SDuderstadt
Learn how to use a fucking FAQ.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #68
69. Well, I'm sure with such a rare and unusual name as Mike Williams...
Edited on Mon Jun-15-09 11:21 AM by SDuderstadt
you must be right about this. Jesus, your flailing about is getting pathetic. Do some research and maybe even e-mail the guy and let us know when you've unmasked his scheme to take over the world, dude.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #59
73. 911myths is Junk site
not worth looking at

the Israels and the Van are Documented.

Google Israeli Oranized Crime

Amdocs, Israeli Spies, Comverse,

Detention of Israelis on 911

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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #73
74. Drat those rascally Jooooss! n/t
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. I didn't mention Joooooss or Jews
I Claimed the Van and the people who filmed the event were documented
"there was a Van and middle eastern looking people filming the event
they seemed happy about it" witness (don't know if there was any dancing)
the police were called and arrested the individuals, who turned out
to be Israeli Nationals, from the Police Report( Reported on CBS and CNN)
so the witness could be mistaken or Police Report false ...
there was a Gov. investigation of Comverse infosys and Amdocs
thats a fact, there Israeli companies ....

but you know Im just a anti semite troofer working with Dr Evil to destroy America
Glen Beck sayz so .....
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #58
62. WHAT? There's a list of banned sites & it's HIDDEN?

Are you being serious or ironic? Really. If there IS such a list, would someone kindly tell me where it's hidden. That's
something everyone (at least on this side of the aisle) needs to know about.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-15-09 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #58
65. Well... at least now you do have some bullshit evidence
SDuderstadt shot down your "dancing Israeli" bullshit (Thanks SDuderstadt!).

Ahhh, but you have yet more bullshit, the old 200 Israeli art students. From FOX no less... I'm shocked.

Now, even FOX does not stoop to the level of "evil jews" doing 9/11. In fact, they say so right at the start of your video. Yet... you want to use it as evidence. Please, do at least a quick search of the forum before you just make shit up.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2002/wpost030602.html

Do you have any other evidence to blame Israel for 9/11? Maybe you heard they were all told to stay home that day?

"theorizing is sort of like making stuff up but not exactly, guess not everyone understands the nuance sometimes."

Theorizing is nothing like making stuff up. Do you really need this explained? Really? I will if you do because what you are doing is not theorizing, not even close. Here is a hint, you need something that is not bullshit to base your claim.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #65
80. In Denial
Have you ever heard the name Jonathan Pollard?

what are you saying that Israel has never had any spies in the USA?

what are you saying that the entire Jewish race is lilly white and has NEVER done anything wrong?

Why do some people give Israel cart blanch like no one there can never do anything bad at all ever?

Like their ALL some kind of angels.

I repeat, there is no race or religion that is faultless

The 5 dancing Israelis was reported by the NYT

It was reported by Fox News, just because it was scrubbed from their site doesn't mean you can rewrite history. The internet records EVERYTHING, anyone who doesn't realize that can suck on it.

Why did they hold them for over 40 days?

why did they fail lie detector tests?

why did the principal of the moving company drop his business and flee to Israel?

""Maybe you heard they were all told to stay home that day?""

well there was one Israeli company that broke their lease, loosing $1000 of dollars, and left the WTC before 911.

""Do you have any other evidence to blame Israel for 9/11?""

Where did I blame Israel? Just theories that clandestine elements within Mossad may have been involved, just like clandestine elements within the CIA may have been involved.

There's no blanket accusation, you're way oversensitive and seeing things if you think that

And anyone that thinks some bad people don't exist in every race, religion, and creed is blind, ignorant, and naive.

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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #65
81. Theories
""Here is a hint, you need something that is not bullshit to base your claim.""

Any expert on the 911 type of terror event says it had to have been state sponsored. With only a few countries even capable. Israel is among those capable.

And don't fly off the handle, when I say "Israel" I mean entities within Israel.

And if you go by quo bono, it's pretty easy to see that Israel does benefit if Iraq and Iran are suppressed.

This isn't BS, it's common knowledge. But when you've got the TV corp media bias blinders on, you're just not going to get the big picture.
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Kalun D Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #65
82. Israel NEVER spies on the US, right?
""SDuderstadt shot down your "dancing Israeli" bullshit (Thanks SDuderstadt!).""

LOLZ!!!

""Ahhh, but you have yet more bullshit, the old 200 Israeli art students. From FOX no less... I'm shocked.""

And Fox is 100% inaccurate on ALL their news?

and the 200 art students, if they were legit, why were they deported?

Or do we deport legit Israelis now for no reason? I thought they were our friends?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. ''Truther Logic''
if the 200 Israeli ''art students'' were deported, they must have been spies.
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #53
75. Kalen D
did no such thing
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Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #41
52. You must not be familiar with Israeli intelligence services

Read "Making of a Prince". The author recounts his experience becoming a Mossad agent and recalls some of the operations he
was involved in or at least that he is aware of. It's been a long time since I read the book, and I can't remember whether
he said that he was personally involved in operations where Mossad agents posed as Arab terrorists.

Ignorance of facts is no excuse to label them as disgusting. At least you should be modest enough to go no further than
President Reagan, whenever he said: "Facts are stupid things."
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-14-09 09:33 AM
Response to Original message
42. Please source this comment
"during the early summer of 911 was the change in rules, taking away permission for guns to be carried on-board by airline pilots.

Thanks
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number6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-17-09 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
72. good post
sad thing is

"Probably just like the Kennedys we'll never know exactly what really happened on 911"

evidence is hidden, destroyed and buried, witnesses ignored...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-18-09 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
84. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Marksbrother Donating Member (653 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-22-09 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
85. Plane-Hugger ALERT!
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