United 23

[noise]

Basics about the flight:

United Airlines Flight 23, a Boeing 767 bound from JFK International Airport in New York to Los Angeles, cancels its takeoff and may thus avoid becoming the morning’s fifth hijacked plane. It was scheduled to depart at 8:30 a.m., but was late in pushing back from the gate and is still waiting in line to take off.

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a900hijackingaverted">United 23 cancels takeoff

9/13/01 AP account:

Three males traveling together became upset and refused to disembark. The argument with a member of the flight crew became so heated that the crew member called airport security.

But before security arrived, the men had vanished, said the source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. WNBC-TV first reported the incident on Wednesday.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/13/investigate-jfk.htm">FBI investigates incident at JFK airport

NY Times September 14, 2001 (Account of strange activity on 9/13/01):

Ten people were taken into custody yesterday at Kennedy International and La Guardia Airports shortly after they were reopened for the first time since the terrorist attacks on Tuesday. The authorities then abruptly shut all three major New York-area airports again.

...

Investigators said they believed that at least one of those taken into custody at Kennedy yesterday was among a group who tried to board a Los Angeles-bound plane at the airport on Tuesday morning, around the time that three other West Coast-bound planes were slamming into the twin towers and the Pentagon outside Washington.

In that incident, the flight was canceled at Kennedy just as passengers were beginning to board United Airlines Flight 23 to Los Angeles, investigators said. ''These guys got belligerent, and said something like, 'We've got to be on this plane,' '' an official said. ''They expressed a desire to remain on the plane and resisted getting off.''

The men, who appeared to be of Arab descent, then fled before they could be questioned by law enforcement officers, investigators said.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06E2DD1E38F937A2575AC0A9679C8B63">LOCAL AIRPORTS SHUT AFTER AN ARREST

NY Times October 20, 2001:

When the captain announced that the plane was returning to the gate, four male passengers described as Middle Eastern in appearance stood up and began urgently consulting with each other, two aviation officials said. The men refused orders from flight attendants to return to their seats, the officials said.

The cockpit crew did not wait for the men to be seated but decided to taxi back to the gate anyway, the officials said. ''As soon as the door opened, these four guys bolted,'' said one of the officials. The other added that the F.B.I. later interviewed the crew about the incident.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F06E2D6103EF933A15753C1A9679C8B63">A NATION CHALLENGED: AN INQUIRY; F.B.I. Asks if Hijacking Plot Included Plane at Kennedy

Daily Herald, April 14, 2004:

Thanks to Ballinger's quick call, the flight crew told passengers it had a mechanical problem and immediately returned to the gate.

Later, Ballinger was told six men initially wouldn't get off the plane. Later, when they did, they disappeared into the crowd, never to return. Later, authorities checked their luggage and found copies of the Qu'ran and al-Qaida instruction sheets.

...

The suspect passengers were never found, and are probably still at large, Kirk said.

"When all we have is a photo from a fake ID," he added, "the chances of finding him in Afghanistan or Pakistan are rather slim."

http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/il10_kirk/news040414_flight.html">Suburban Flight Dispatcher to Recount Worst Day

There is another account in the book Touching History by Lynn Spencer. According to her account a flight attendant alerted the pilots that four Arab men were seated in first class. There is no description of their conduct or why the flight attendant was suspicious. After the plane returned, the four men simply disappeared. Spencer's account doesn't mention any arguments between the men and airline staff.

There are many odd aspects in these accounts:

1) The contradictory details. For example, were there three, four or six suspect passengers?

2) What sort of idiot terrorist would come back on 9/13? It is reminiscent of Mohammed Salemeh trying to get his deposit back for the Ryder van after the WTC '93 bombing.

3) Al-Qaida instruction sheets. Fake ID's. Failed to pick up their luggage. The flight crew was interviewed six times. First class tickets. Cross country flight. 767. Same time frame as the hijacked flights. Yet they simply got away? That is absurd.

4)Al Qaeda (AFAIK) has always gone along with the 19 hijackers + 4 planes narrative. KSM and bin al-Shibh made a big deal out of telling Yosri Fouda the assigned names of the 19 hijackers. Why wouldn't al Qaeda want to make the FBI look bad and reveal that there were more hijackings planned?

5)I know we are told the hijacked plane manifests are a-ok and only a conspiracy nut would dare question their validity. The problem is that the use of real names has never made any sense. After all, the FBI knew alHazmi and alMihdhar were in the US in late August. CIA withholding was no longer a factor. If the FBI had only shared the names with FAA intel then they would have known that alHazmi and alMihdhar were booked for Flight 77 on 9/11. Thus, the use of real names is bizarre terrorist tradecraft. We also had some confusion with early news reports stating that Adnan Bukhari, Ameer Bukhari and Mosear Caned were hijackers. It all leads one to wonder what names were truly on the original manifests.

United 23 appears to offer extraordinary potential to clear up some mysteries of 9/11 since it seems quite possible that al Qaeda operatives intended to hijack the plane.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[anigbrowl]

2. This is interesting

You raise some valid points which offer some intriguing avenues for research.
:popcorn:

[wildbilln864]

3. thanks for posting this noise. nt

[Rosa Luxemburg]

4. do you think arabs hijacked the planes on 9/11?

one always assumed that they did but what if they didn't?

[noise]

5. There are plenty of questions

Tactically there are two good reasons to question human pilots:

1) Would guarantee that higher level plotters knew what targets would be hit. For example, why would Hanjour choose such a difficult target?

2) Would take pilot error out of the equation.

OTOH, al Qaeda operatives drove trucks into US embassies in Africa and rammed a skiff into the Cole. So why wouldn't they be willing to hijack some planes? What was the point of CIA withholding intel on al Qaeda operatives if they had no operational role in 9/11? Perhaps compartmentalization explains the MO. For example, maybe most of the hijackers thought the mission was a traditional hijacking with some sort of negotiation to follow. Still dangerous but not a martyrdom mission. Maybe the pilots were the only ones read in to the suicide aspect.

Many people accept the official account but have a huge issue with the Bush/Cheney WoT. Meaning a belief in al Qaeda hijackers doesn't require a corresponding belief in an unending WoT (with the accompanying indefinite detention and torture). I find it somewhat unsettling when some people suggest that a belief in real al Qaeda terrorists is tantamount to an endorsement of some sort of Crusade.

Needless to say I don't have any definitive answers.

[greyl]

6. What was Hanjour's target, and how do you know that? nt

[noise]

8. How do I know the WTC towers were targets?

I wasn't exactly making a wild claim. Why should one think the plane did not crash where intended?

[Bryan Sacks]

7. No names of these men were ever released, were they, noise?

What were the names on the Fake IDs? Do we know?

[noise]

9. I don't believe so

And incredibly I don't believe the FBI agent in charge of this investigation has ever been interviewed by US media.

[jberryhill]

14. It's not surprising that there isn't much public information on this subject, IMHO

[noise]

10. A new account of Flight 23

Based on reports he later received from UA personnel, including the Chief Pilot, Ballinger believes that the 9:20 a.m. communication he sent to UA Flight 23 may have prevented a hijacking. He recalled being told by United's Chief Pilot and others that this airplane had taxied out and faked a mechanical problem and then returned to the gate. Six Moslems wouldn't disembark at first. The crew talked to the Moslems and told them to get off the plane but they wouldn't. The police were called but by the time the Kennedy Airport police arrived the six individuals had deplaned and were in a coffee shop before they left the airport without being questioned. Reportedly, they never claimed their checked baggage and in the baggage was significant information of an incriminating nature. Ballinger was told by the Chief Pilot that he stopped this plane from being hijacked.

http://media.nara.gov/9-11/MFR/t-0148-911MFR-01090.pdf">MFR of former UA flight dispatcher Ed Ballinger

In a coffee shop?

[Bolo Boffin]

11. Hmm.

Well, if they were part of a hijacking ring and they had to deplane, why would they stop for coffee?

I was wondering about this, too, but this turns into a group of Arabs, upset about having to get off the plane like anyone could be, and then getting off and learning what was happening and scraming. You can see a innocent set of motivations there.

[JackRiddler]

15. United 23 -- I do wonder about the designation of the men as

"Moslems" in the memo. How is this seen? From the outfits? The skin color? The passport?

What's frustrating and kind of laughable here is the idea that any body that even simulated a public investigation could read this report -- suggesting that a fifth hijacking had been arranged and was foiled! -- and not immediately explore it fully, look into the given identities of the "six Moslems," demand to see the "significant information of an incriminating nature" from their baggage, and, after coming to a conclusion one way or another -- perhaps that the question was open -- provide an accounting of the incident and their investigation of it in their final report or its adjuncts. At least in a goddamn footnote. Because it's not our job to come up with explanations for why the "Moslems" (elsewhere also described as "Arabs") and the airport authorities acted as they did.

But remember, the 9/11 Commission Report was an exhaustive and unsparing accounting of the Sept. 11th events.

Actually, the closest thing to such an exhaustive accounting was put together by a couple of editors on a shoestring thanks to donations. Here's the United 23 entry from The Complete 9/11 Timeline -- which isn't really "complete," but merits the name more than any government "investigation" to date:

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a900hijackingaverted

(After 9:19 a.m.) September 11, 2001: United Flight 23 Cancels Takeoff, Possibly Avoids Being Hijacked



United Airlines Flight 23, a Boeing 767 bound from JFK International Airport in New York to Los Angeles, cancels its takeoff and may thus avoid becoming the morning’s fifth hijacked plane. It was scheduled to depart at 8:30 a.m., but was late in pushing back from the gate and is still waiting in line to take off. (Associated Press, 9/13/2001; New York Times, 10/20/2001) The plane’s pilots, Tom Mannello and Carol Timmons, have heard a report over their radio that a plane has flown into the World Trade Center. They then receive a text message from United Airlines dispatcher Ed Ballinger, which reportedly states: “We have gone to heightened security. Do not open cockpit doors. Secure the cockpit.” (Spencer, 2008, pp. 102-103) This is presumably the message Ballinger sent out at 9:19 (see 9:19 a.m. September 11, 2001), though it seems to be more like a description of the message he sends out at 9:32 (see 9:32 a.m.-9:33 a.m. September 11, 2001). (9/11 Commission, 8/26/2004, pp. 37 and 39 )
Pilots Alarmed at Warning - Having never received a warning like this before, the pilots are alarmed. Timmons starts barricading the cockpit door with their suitcases while Mannello grabs the crash ax for protection. Mannello calls the plane’s lead flight attendant to inform her of the threat, and tells her not to open the cockpit door under any circumstances. Soon afterwards, she calls back and informs him: “We (the plane’s flight attendants) just think you should know this because we think it is unusual. We have four young Arab men sitting in first class this morning.” (Spencer, 2008, pp. 103) (Other accounts will claim there are three or even six suspicious passengers on the flight. (Associated Press, 9/13/2001; Chicago Daily Herald, 4/14/2004) ) Mannello hasn’t been told what the reported threat is about or if it relates to Arabs, so simply thanks the attendant for the information. Minutes later, the pilots receive a radio message from ground control, announcing, “All aircraft, be advised that the airport is now closed.” A subsequent message announces the airport is being evacuated. Mannello decides to move his aircraft back to the terminal. (Spencer, 2008, pp. 103-104)
Arab Passengers Become Aggressive - After the passengers are told their flight has been canceled, the Arab men become upset. They stand up and start urgently consulting with each other, and then refuse to return to their seats. (Associated Press, 9/13/2001; New York Times, 10/20/2001) One official will later describe: “These guys got belligerent, and said something like, ‘We’ve got to be on this plane.’ They expressed a desire to remain on the plane and resisted getting off.” (New York Times, 9/14/2001) According to the Associated Press, “The argument with a member of the flight crew became so heated that the crew member called airport security. But before security arrived, the men had vanished.” (Associated Press, 9/13/2001)
Evidence Indicates Plans for Hijacking Plane - Authorities will later check the men’s unclaimed baggage and find box-cutters, copies of the Koran, and al-Qaeda instruction sheets. (Chicago Daily Herald, 4/14/2004; Spencer, 2008, pp. 105) In 2002, apparently referring to this incident, Lt. Gen. Ken Pennie, the deputy commander of NORAD, will state, “We suspect there might have been more than just the four aircraft involved” as targets for the 9/11 attacks. (Globe and Mail, 6/13/2002) The FBI will investigate this incident and go through the flight manifest to determine the names of the Arab men, who are believed to have had ticketed reservations. (Associated Press, 9/13/2001; New York Times, 9/14/2001) Investigators will interview the plane’s crew nearly half a dozen times. But no information about the suspicious Arab passengers is ever released to the public. (Spencer, 2008, pp. 105) On September 14, it is reported that investigators believe at least one of these passengers was among a number of individuals taken into custody at JFK and La Guardia Airports the previous day (see September 13-14, 2001). (New York Times, 9/14/2001) However, these detained individuals are soon cleared of any connection with the events of 9/11 and are released. (Associated Press, 9/14/2001) In 2004, Rep. Mark Kirk (R) will say the suspicious Flight 23 passengers were never found and are likely still at large. (Chicago Daily Herald, 4/14/2004)

[Neily]

16. Between The Lies Video

While watching Between the lies, I first learned of flight 23. In my search for information, I ran across these forums. The portion regarding Flight 23 starts at about 64:19. It talks about 2 men detained at JFK a few days after 9/11 when they presented tickets dated 9/11/01 and presented themselves as airline pilots, were armed with knives, and they showed pilots licenses from flight schools in Vero Beach Florida. In sum, four men were arrested at the gate and one was on the terror watch list. At Laguardia airport, three men with baggage marked "Crew" were arrested when their story did not check out.

http://www.911docs.net/between_the_lies.php

[BunnyBluetimes]

12. I'm surprised DU hasn't been contacted by the cable companies

offering you a free channel!!! There is more information in the DU Dungeon than in the 9/11 commission report or any other website I've been too. If the 9/11 case is resolved at this domain Obama owes all of you a medal. Keep up the good work guys and gals we need to know the truth,:bounce:

Thanks for sharing what you know:headbang:

[Bolo Boffin]

13. "If the 9/11 case is resolved at this domain Obama owes all of you a medal."

Thanks. I needed a good laugh this morning.