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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 08:07 AM
Original message
9/11 and Iraq
If our government was really behind 911 why didn't they just place the blame on Sadaam Hussein completely (they tried to tie him a bit but as with most things they do it failed).

It is obvious that * and Cheney wanted to go to war with Iraq right from the get go. So if the government was behind it why wouldn't they arrange the evidence to Iraq instead of OBL?

Answer they are incompetent. They aren't capable of pulling such a stunt off. Hell we all know * ignored a document called "OBL determined to attack within the US".


I have a very good example of the incompetence of the * and Cheney. The WMD that were supposedly in Iraq. It is obvious that they lied/manipulated evidence of WMD in Iraq to get the final straw to go to war with Hussein. But their incompetence shined right thru when there wasn't any WMD.
A competent plan would have planted 'evidence' in Iraq. Imagine how the country and the world would have praised * then.

But no, because they are incompetent they couldn't even pull that off.

So you really think that they could have been behind 911? As incompetent as they are?
This regime couldn't manage a McDonald's successfully, never mind what happened on 911.

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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. This is an old and stale argument
simply put, they did WANT 9/11 just to be about Iraq.

Remember the whole "war on terror" meme-- that has sucked up trillions of dollars and taken away our liberties? They wanted something larger than one invasion.

The incompetence argument doesn't hold for so many reasons-- for instance the fact that the Bush admin has gotten what they want and gotten away with it.
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sabbat hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. incompetence
They have gotten away with it because congress hasn't done anything to them about it.


Everything this regime touches turns to shit. So how are we to believe they are capable of pulling of what happened on 911? If they were really behind it, they planes would have missed the towers and flown between them instead.

or if CD is your belief; if the current regime tried to bring the towers down with explosives, they would have been improperly wired and failed to go off.

What exactly in the 7+ years that they have been in office have they done successfully?

Nothing I have seen has shown that they have the competence to pull off 911.

Again I ask, if this regime was competent enough to pull off 911, why wouldn't they just have planted the WMD in Iraq? But no, they couldn't even do that. So we are to believe that they could plan successfully and pull off 911?

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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. why hasn't even the democratic congress done anything to these guys?
think of obvous war crimes these guys have gotten away with-- TORTURE for god's sakes!

perhaps things aren't as simple as you think?

Things turn to shit for common folk like us-- but the rich people have made away pretty well under Bushco-- so have defense contractors, etc.

If I were you I would stop thinking that they care about the common good and realize that they (the rich) care about their own interests.

This is why 9/11 is a DEMOCRATIC issue.

The rich are ripping us off and getting away with it.
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Grateful for Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. "The rich are ripping us off and getting away with it"
Absolutely true, Spooked.
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elias7 Donating Member (913 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. everything they have done has been successful, just not by your standards
elections have been won
torture has been condoned
warrantless spying is happening
civil rights have been truncated
sibel edmonds has been gagged
our media has been handcuffed
military has been privatized
afghanistan has been invaded
iraq has been invaded and occupied
iran is in their sights

read PNAC manifesto & realize their dreams coming true

the incompetence argument just doesn't work for me.
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Ghost in the Machine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. "Everything this regime touches turns to shit."
That is all part of the plan, not incompetence. They seek to effectively destroy our government, country & life as we know it in their quest for their New World Order.

Please stop with the incompetence bullshit, it doesn't fly... and I actually used to believe it and say it also, but as has been pointed out, they have achieved about every goal they have set. They have destabilized the Middle East and have filled their pockets and the pockets of their cronies in the process. They have looted the treasury, sold out our country and turned us basically into a 3rd world rogue nation that uses miltary might to get what they want.

Our military is engaged in TWO wars in TWO countries, and they want to start in another one (Iran). Their goal is to stretch out our military across the globe, then install their private paramilitary (BlackWater) here at home. The BlackWater mercs work for the highest bidder, with no allegience to flag or country. They will have NO PROBLEM turning their weapons on US citizens, where our brave men and women would more than likely revolt at that idea. Sure, there are some in our military who would do so also, but they are far outnumbered by those who wouldn't.

It doesn't take much to debunk the "incompetence theory"... all you have to do is open your eyes a little bit and look around at the reality happening every day.

Ghost

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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
5. I don't remember where I head this... it may have been a book or movie...
One crook says to another crook "When you pull off a job like this, there are 100 things that can go wrong. If you can think if 10 of them, you are a genius."

I think this applies to the complexities of the 9/11 attacks. They could only have been pulled off by sheer luck. By the terrorists.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. It isn't luck
when officials tasked with thwarting terrorist plots are ostensibly derelict in their duty.

Since those officials refuse to speak candidly in public we don't know why they acted the way they did. I still find it incredible that the American public has never heard from the official who ran Alec Station in the lead up to 9/11.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. my take
is that Bush wasn't necessarily in on it... I don't give Bush any credence - he may be somewhat of a useful idiot (in almost all he does it seems this way... it's as thou he is there as a placeholder or proxy). Cheney seems to play his cards from the shadows, so he probably knew something. I think maybe Cheny was instructed to lay low until he was told as to when and how.

Until you or I are keenly educated in the ways of secret planning methods, our guesses may amount to nothing - as I would guess there are probably very clever tricks and tactics that we couldn't even fathom being used. I would say it's really about playing on the psychology and ignorance of the average Joe.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Let me make sure I get this straight...
Now you're claiming that neither Bush nor Cheney planned it but merely were kept out of the loop or told to await orders? Who gave these orders? The Illuminati? The NWO? The Bilderbergers? The Freemasons? Is there any CT so absurd that even YOU won't embrace it?
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. "Let me make sure I get this straight..."
Ive always stated this ..

You're either extremely naive or trustworthy to think there aren't people in this world with the motive and means to want and have the ability to pull something like this off. Maybe a you're bit of both?


As to exactly WHO... that's the part I personally enjoy researching. It's a tangled web we have woven for ourselves and if you expect a clear and precise answer, you're barking up the wrong tree.

It would be like me expecting you to know about the exact nature and structure of a mafia family after coming across information that would point to their involvement in a crime. Not knowing the exact details wouldn't deter your knowledge that they were most likely the ones behind the crime - and at least that they had the capability to commit the said crime. This would be a reasonable conclusion to hold until evidence comes up that would prove undoubtedly otherwise.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. I am neither naive nor trusting (you mean trusting not trustworthy)...
Edited on Sat Jan-26-08 01:20 PM by SDuderstadt
I am calling you on your claim that someone above Bush and Cheny were somehow calling the shots. Your analogy to the Mafia doesn't make sense because they would wind up calling the shots and implementing whatever strategy they considered.

I am asking you who would have the power to command the resources that would have to be assembled if 9/11 was pulled off as an "inside job". More importantly, who would have the power to relegate Bush being out of the loop AND Cheney merely awaiting instructions? This is even more ludicrous than theories which have Bush and Cheney behind 9/11. In my opinion, Bush is not all that smart, but I hardly think Cheney's purported connivance in such a role would have gone unnoticed by Bush or those around him. Your theory is frankly preposterous. Just because something COULD have happened that way, doesn't mean it did happen that way. When you have hard evidence of it, I'm all ears. Until then, this is just another goofy claim.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I don't really feel like outlining every detailed thought I have concerning this,
But heres some quotes for you to mull over. Until you can explain to me what is being (overtly) referenced, the conclusion that 9/11 (many major world events) was most likely a staged event to help implement a profound change in society stands as the strongest theory in my mind.


Just off-hand here, where is the HARD EVIDENCE linking UBL to 9/11? The FBI and Justice Department have none, why should you?


"To achieve world government, it is necessary to remove from the minds of men their individualism, loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism, and religious dogmas."

Brock Adams, Director UN Health Organization


"Rarely have Americans lived through so much change, in so many ways, in so short a time. Quietly, but with gathering force, the ground has shifted beneath our feet as we have moved into an Information Age, a global economy, a truly new world."

President William Clinton State of the Union Address 1998


"A world government can intervene militarily in the internal affairs of any nation when it disapproves of their activities." - Kofi Annan, U.N. Secretary General


"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order . Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond , whether real or *promulgated* , that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this *scenario*, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."

Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991



"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."

Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets



"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries."

David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.



"The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies to enable them to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other."

Myron Fagan



"In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers.

"An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers."

U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917



"The world can therefore seize the opportunity to fulfill the long-held promise of a New World Order where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind."

George Herbert Walker Bush



"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."

Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.



"We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent."

Statement by Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950



"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called Coningsby, the New Generation



"The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans. "

British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876



"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Woodrow Wilson,The New Freedom (1913)



"What is important is to dwell upon the increasing evidence of the existence of a secret conspiracy, throughout the world, for the destruction of organized government and the letting loose of evil."

Christian Science Monitor editorial, June 19th, l920



"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties."

New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922



"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."

Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922.



"We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world."

Professor Arnold Toynbee, in a June l931 speech before the Institute for the Study of International Affairs in Copenhagen.



"The government of the Western nations, whether monarchical or republican, had passed into the invisible hands of a plutocracy, international in power and grasp. It was, I venture to suggest, this semioccult power which....pushed the mass of the American people into the cauldron of World War I."

British military historian MajorGeneral J.F.C. Fuller, l941



"For a long time I felt that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But, he didn't. Most of his thoughts, his political ammunition, as it were, were carefully manufactured for him in advanced by the Council on Foreign Relations-One World Money group. Brilliantly, with great gusto, like a fine piece of artillery, he exploded that prepared "ammunition" in the middle of an unsuspecting target, the American people, and thus paid off and returned his internationalist political support.

"The UN is but a long-range, international banking apparatus clearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One-World revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power.

"The depression was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market....The One World Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank."

Curtis Dall, FDR's son-in-law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father-in-Law



"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."

A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933



"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes."

Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952



"Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure."

Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.



"Today the path of total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government - a bureaucratic elite."

Senator William Jenner, 1954



"The case for government by elites is irrefutable"

Senator William Fulbright, Former chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stated at a 1963 symposium entitled: The Elite and the Electorate - Is Government by the People Possible?



"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system ,they will rule the future."

U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: With No Apologies.



"The powers of financial capitalism had another far reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups."

Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966,) Professor Carroll Quigley of Georgetown University, highly esteemed by his former student, William Jefferson Blythe Clinton.



"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one-world dictatorship."

Former Congressman John Rarick 1971



"The directors of the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) make up a sort of Presidium for that part of the Establishment that guides our destiny as a nation."

The Christian Science Monitor, September 1, l961






http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZN2fTGcBUw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkKbE9qCzQo
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No offense, dude, but I think you've been had
Edited on Sat Jan-26-08 06:58 PM by SDuderstadt
Did you fact-check this at all? Right off the bat, the first problem I noticed is that Brock Adams was never ever the Director of the "UN Health Organization". Secondly, there is no organization called the "UN Health Organization". There is something called the "World Health Organization" and it is administered by the United Nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brock_Adams

I put a couple of the "quotes" into Google and what I got back were almost all RW websites and, in some cases, very RW websites. I am inclined to believe that these are either bogus quotes or clipped and taken way out of context. Where did you come upon the list? Did you just buy into it without bothering to check it out? I think you need to double-check this. My main problem is I believe it is quite dangerous when RW propaganda finds its way into a liberal website.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. it was a cut n paste job
I was worried about that happeneing - but to back up the NWO claim , Bush 1, CLinton, Kissenger, Rockefeller, and many other high ranking people in and out of government positions have all made their positions very clear on this subject in video and audio- so really the point has already been drivin home personally for me.

DId you bother to look up anything else besides that one quote??
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. in rgeards to UN health organization
That IS the World Health Organization .... it is a part of the UN.

http://www.who.int/about/en/
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. And Brock Adams was never the director of it, ever....
As far as your question whether I looked up more than one quote, you should be asking whether you looked up any of them before you posted them. Again, what is your source for them?

It's also ridiculous to claim Bill Clinton is part of the NWO, assuming it even exists. This is bullshit and the fact that you posted it without checking it out in any way speaks volumes about your (lack of) credibility.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I shouldn't have
used that stack of quotes - it was easy, and as my OP said, I didn't feel like gathering up the 100's of independent articles i've read to reference it.
For that I am sorry.

In regards to Bill... he (and IMO, Hillary) has many cozy ties to the Bush Cabal. Bullshit? You got some researching to do my friend...


What does this mean if no nwo exists? It just doesn't fit right in the current spoon-fed worldview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a9Syi12RJo
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You still have not disclosed the source of the quotes....
Edited on Sat Jan-26-08 11:36 PM by SDuderstadt
nor does it appear that you vetted the accuracy or the completeness/context of them. I find that very troubling. Look up the logical fallacy known as "false certainty". Just because something appears on the Internet or is the subject of a YouTube video does not mean it's true.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. did you watch the video? nt
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. YES, DAMN IT! I watched the freaking video!
Do you think the video proves something? It's a simple question. What is the source of the quotes? Why can't you simply answer that? If you can't or won't, I call bullshit.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. I TOLD YOU that it was a cut and paste job
and some of the quotes may be sketchy at best ... and the source was http://www.preferrednetwork.com/NWO_QUOTES.htm

So what do you think about the video? I couldn't possibly make heads or tails of what they are talking about without some sort of theory that would include a cabal of people sharing a certain somewhat hidden worldview.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Here's another one of the quotes from your "source"
"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."

David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

Does something sound a little fishy about that to you? There's no date for this supposed quotation. Does that make you in the least bit suspicious? Here's what Wikipedia has to say about David Spangler:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spangler

Funny. Absolutely NO mention of him connected in any way to the UN. Better yet, go to the UN website (http://www.un.org/) and do a search for David Spangler or Planetary Initiative and you'll find: NOTHING!! Actually, do you think that you even have to research it to determine that no UN official (David Spangler certainly was not one) ever said anything as goofy as "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."? You know why? Because it's a fricking MADE UP QUOTE!

Add that to the fact that, as previously noted, Brock Adams, a former Democratic member member of Conress from Washington state and former Secretary of Transportation in the Carter Administration was NEVER the Director of the "UN Health Organization" (sic). I think, after going 0 for 2, it's safe to say your "source" is, to put it mildly, a total crock.

Face it. You've been had. Duped. Bamboozled. Frankly, I don't know why anyone should regard you as credible at this point. More importantly, I find it disturbing that DU is being utilized for the dissemination of RW propaganda.

Moral of the story: If you're going to post things here to the rest of us, don't do it without some sort of vetting for authenticity. The problem is there are plenty of your fellow CT's here who will read your tripe and take it as gospel, thus propagating to other unsuspecting dupes. Frankly, your goofy 9/11 claims, combined with the fact that you are promoting false information, damages the progressive movement. Are you, in fact a progressive or even a Democrat? Somehow, I don't think so.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. lol
i retracted my support of the source already... I cut and pasted because I didn't feel like sourcing 20+ quotes and then apoligized for using it. Next time I will take 20 minutes and refrence my cut n' paste next time.

plese stop flogging a dead horse.

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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. and if you need some
example of the basic hierarchy of money (power) in the world today, ask yourself this question: who is almost every nation in debt to?
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. I have to say that...
I really have no idea where you're going with this.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. if you can't connect the dots
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 09:25 AM by mrgerbik
then I cannot help you.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. You don't have any "dots"
you have fake quotes.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. you can't comment on that video
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 11:42 AM by mrgerbik
because it throws doubt into your little comfy disney universe you constructed for yourself. Honestly, that makes me sad.
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Ummm, what do you think the video proves, exactly?
It proves that political figures, on occasion, have used the phrase "new world order". So what? Does that prove it has the nefarious meaning you and others ascribe to it? No. It's like the Republicans screaming "socialized medicine!" everytime we talk about single payer healthcare. This is much ado about nothing, unless you get duped by Bircher websites. It's pretty clear the phrase was referring to a move towards democracy and away from dictators, as well as increasing embrace of the rule of law.

Having said that, we have significant problems with wealth inequality and those intent on preserving the existing power arrangement (I'm certain they'd be delighted if we established pure plutocracy). That doesn't mean we're establishing one world government or that the world is run by the Bilderbergers, the Illuminati, the Freemasons or the CFR. Jesus.
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mrgerbik Donating Member (652 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. so that is your worldview?
very disneyesque...
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SDuderstadt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. This is unintentional irony...
right?
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Maybe they don't care how bad they look
They could have made the US Attorney purge look less sinister but chose not to do so.

The incompetence rationale suggests concealment is the overriding priority. For whatever reason, this does not seem to be the case.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Hmmm... not sure I agree with that one....
> They could have made the US Attorney purge look less sinister but chose not to do so

The manner in which the US Attorney took place looked about as bad as anything could look.

If they had just said "Look, these are political appointees who serve at the pleasure of the President, and the President wishes them to leave" it would have looked better. But by lying and saying the firings were not politically motivsted, they created a shitstorm.
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. It appears we agree
on the manner in which they conducted the US Attorney purge. They could have achieved the same objective without all the criminal scheming.

I don't know why they act in such a bizarre manner but IMO it does suggest that concealment of criminal activity is not their primary concern.
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-26-08 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. There's no such thing as a perfect crime, yet this doesn't deter anyone from committing them
Edited on Sat Jan-26-08 03:03 PM by ResetButton
A criminal enterprise is like a financial enterprise in that there's a cost/benefit/risk assessment. This is true whether you're robbing a liquor store or setting fire to the Reichstag. For the real 911 perpetrators, the costs; blood, treasure, and liberty, were outweighed by the benefits; continued status as the world's sole superpower. As for the risks, depending on your view of America's rightful place in the world, you might consider them "necessary". Besides, history shows US governments have gotten away with massive fraud before. If you're holding all the levers of power and keep the sheeple grazing, no one will figure it out until after you're long gone.
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Flatulo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
25. And how exactly did 9/11 help America retain its status as
the worlds' sole superpower?

Our army is broke and so are we.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. Crimes often don't succeed as planned, and yet they are committed. nt
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