FBI: No evidence to connect Osama bin Laden to 9/11

[nebula]

Funny thing.

But to me, not surprising.

The FBI currently has bin Laden officially wanted on their Top 10 List--but not for 9/11. He is wanted in connection with bombings of US embassies in Africa in 1998. Why is that? Because they have no evidence to connect him to 9/11?

Then why does the mainstream media and Bush administration assume Osama's guilt in 9/11, if not even the FBI has evidence to link him to it?

And if not Osama, then who is responsible for 9/11??



FBI website--"10 Most Wanted terrorists":

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

Page for bin Laden:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

[Bolo Boffin]

1. What's this about?

REWARD

The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

[nebula]

2. They can offer all the rewards they want.

Doesn't mean that they have the evidence of his guilt. If they did possess such evidence, you would think they'd want to share it with the FBI--which unlike the State Dept, actually has the means to do a proper investigation.


2) That the State Dept is offering an award for bin Laden, doesn't explain why he isn't also wanted by the FBI (for 9/11).

[Bolo Boffin]

3. Saddam was hanged for killing 158 people.

It was one of the least of his crimes.

Are you saying that the FBI doesn't think Osama did it?

[nebula]

5. If the FBI thinks Osama did it,

They would make it pretty damn clear by now that they think he did it.

So far, they haven't said anything of the sort.




2) Do you think the FBI thinks Osama did it?
If so, please provide evidence of such to back it up.

[Bolo Boffin]

6. OK, I'm going to provide evidence that the FBI thinks Osama did it...

Next post.

I'm going to gather my sources, yadada, you know...

But while I'm doing that, could you answer me something, because this truly confuses me about this particular bit of well-polished CT lore:

What do you think you're accomplishing by taking this tack?

I mean - George Bush certainly thinks Osama did it, right? And George Bush can make people in the FBI do anything he wants, according to your view, right?

So why hasn't George Bush or Karl Rove or Dick Cheney or Alberto Gonzoles twisted somebody's arm and gotten this changed? Are they mocking you with this knowledge? What is keeping the FBI from actually putting this info up here, if the government faked everything else?

If they'll spend all that money on a "fake" study of how the towers collapsed, why won't they take ten seconds to change this website?

[nebula]

4. Nothing to do with the FBI

"An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association."


That reward is offered by an independent 3rd party, the Airline Pilots Association.
It has nothing to do with the FBI. The APA has no authority to establish any legal basis for Osama's guilt or innocence. The APA is only going with what they've been told (by the Bush administration).

[Bolo Boffin]

7. This is a pretty silly OP

First, the first link does not go to a "10 Most Wanted Terrorists" list. It goes to a "Most Wanted Terrorists" list that has 26 people listed as of 01/01/2007.

Second, the first paragraph on the "Most Wanted Terrorists" list states the following:

The alleged terrorists on this list have been indicted by sitting Federal Grand Juries in various jurisdictions in the United States for the crimes reflected on their wanted posters. Evidence was gathered and presented to the Grand Juries, which led to their being charged. The indictments currently listed on the posters allow them to be arrested and brought to justice. Future indictments may be handed down as various investigations proceed in connection to other terrorist incidents, for example, the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001.

Let's examine each of these statements so that we can understand what we are looking at.

The first statement: The people on this list are "alleged terrorists." This means that Federal Grand Juries have indicted these people for crimes, specifically, the ones listed on their posters.

The second statement: The Department of Justice presented the gathered evidence of the crimes to the Grand Juries, and this led to the people being pictured below to be charged.

The third statement: Because of this, all of the people below can be arrested and brought to justice.

The last statement: More indictments could be handed down as investigations proceed, particularly the investigation into the 9/11 attacks.

Osama bin Laden is then pictured below. He has been charged with terrorism in connection to the 1998 US embassy bombings. Evidence of his guilt has been gathered and presented to a Grand Jury. The Grand Jury indicted him for this crime, which authorized the FBI to arrest him for this crime. The FBI then reminds us that Osama could still be charged with other crimes, and emphasize the 9/11 attacks as an example.

This means that Osama has not been indicted for the 9/11 attacks. It does not mean that the FBI cannot connect him to the crime. It means that they are still gathering evidence. In the meantime, Osama still can be arrested, still tried, and still executed for the crime of the 1998 US embassy bombings. And he will be just as dead as if executed for the 9/11 attacks.

On his page, the embassy bombing are listed because that is what he's been indicted on. He is also a "suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world." I wonder if the 9/11 attack is among them? Well, there is a $2 million reward from the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association - are there any other terrorist acts involving planes besides the 9/11 attacks?

Here is the indictment of Zacarias Moussaoui.

Osama's name appears five times in the first paragraph as a founder of al-Qaeda. Where he went, al-Qaeda went. In the second paragraph, reasons are given why "Bin Laden declared a jihad, or holy war, against the United States, which he has carried out through al Qaeda and its affiliated organizations." In the seventh, his part in running terrorist training camps in Afghanistan is mentioned. Overt actions of his are spelled out in Moussaoui's conspiracy charge - bin Laden's terrorist camps, his provision of financial support, his search for WMDs, his fatwas - threats against the United States.

The actions of the 9/11 hijackers are then traced - the money they recieved, the flight training they took, the things they bought. Moussaoui's actions parallel theirs - flight training, reciept of money, purchases.

Osama's praise of the hijackers after the attacks are then entered into evidence.

All of this evidence was gathered by the FBI and processed so that the Justice Department could seek this indictment. Osama's role in the 9/11 attacks is rather well-defined in this indictment prepared with evidence from the FBI. I think they might be aware of his part in the 9/11 attacks.

And indeed they are.

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/watson020602.htm

The testimony of Dale Watson, Executive Assistant Director, Counterterrorism/Counterintelligence Division, FBI, before the 9/11 Commission:

The evidence linking Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable.

...Al-Qaeda must continue to be viewed as a potent and highly capable terrorist network. The network's willingness and capability to inflict large-scale violence and destruction against U.S. persons and interests--as it demonstrated with the September 11 attack, the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000, and the bombings of two U.S. embassies in east Africa in August 1998, among other plots--makes it a clear and imminent threat to the United States.

...Usama Bin Laden and 15 other subjects stand indicted for their roles in Al-Qaeda and the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa.

Mr. Watson of the FBI seems to think that Osama is responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Notice that Osama is indicted for his role in al-Qaeda AND the 1998 bombings. Since Osama's role in al-Qaeda is the basis for the embassy bombing indictment, his continued role in al-Qaeda during its planning of the 9/11 attacks gives Mr. Watson his reason for saying that "the evidence linking Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable."

The evidence that the FBI considers Osama bin Laden responsible for the 9/11 attacks is also clear and irrefutable.

[nebula]

9. Question

"The FBI then reminds us that Osama could still be charged with other crimes, and emphasize the 9/11 attacks as an example."

Where exactly does it say that bin Laden is wanted by the FBI for 9/11?



"The alleged terrorists on this list have been indicted by sitting Federal Grand Juries in various jurisdictions in the United States for the crimes reflected on their wanted posters. Evidence was gathered and presented to the Grand Juries, which led to their being charged. The indictments currently listed on the posters allow them to be arrested and brought to justice. Future indictments may be handed down as various investigations proceed in connection to other terrorist incidents, for example, the terrorist attacks on September 11, 2001."


----bin Laden has been indicted by a sitting Federal Grand Jury specifically for the 1998 Embassy bombings. Evidence was gathered and presented to the Grand Juries, which led to their being charged FOR the 1998 Embassy bombings.


"I mean - George Bush certainly thinks Osama did it, right? And George Bush can make people in the FBI do anything he wants, according to your view, right?"

----Huh? When the hell have I said that??

"So why hasn't George Bush or Karl Rove or Dick Cheney or Alberto Gonzoles twisted somebody's arm and gotten this changed? Are they mocking you with this knowledge? What is keeping the FBI from actually putting this info up here, if the government faked everything else?"


----George Bush is not omnipotent. With the way our justice system works, it would be impossible to convict bin Laden for 9/11 without something called evidence. The FBI understands that. They understand it would be totally POINTLESS to waste their time and resources to try to capture bin laden for 9/11 if they have no evidence of his involvement in it. In a court of law, bin Laden's defense would make mincemeat of anyone trying to prosecute him for something without evidence.

We still have something called due process in America. You may have heard of it?

Which is why bin Laden is currently NOT wanted by the FBI for 9/11. They have no evidence for it.

[Bolo Boffin]

12. This is a fat lot of silliness.

The Justice Department has not sought an indictment for Osama concerning the 9/11 attacks. That's why it's not listed on his Wanted poster. However, they make many statements on both your pages alluding to their knowledge of Osama's guilt in those attacks.

Mr. Watson makes that clear.

You obviously don't think Osama bin Laden carried out these attacks. Why else would you be saying such silly things? You have to believe that the government did this. If you don't believe that, then state who you think did it. Quit playing games.

If then the government did this, from this last post I must understand your position to be that the FBI had nothing to do with the planning, execution, and coverup of this crime. If they were involved in faking all that evidence, surely they would have used due process to convince any Grand Jury post-9/11 of Osama's guilt, and recieved an indictment. Therefore, you must see them as resolutely maintaining Osama's innocence since they have no evidence, and this must bring a load of consternation to the people behind this attack.

Is this what you believe about the FBI? They are either a part of the plot or not. If you believe they are, then the idea that they wouldn't seek an indictment after helping fake all those attacks and evidence is position-shatteringly absurd. If you believe they were not, then you accept the idea that a government agency can maintain its integrity and independence from people in power, and I'd like to start talking to you about NIST.

[nebula]

10. Interesting

"the evidence linking Al-Qaeda and Bin Laden to the attacks of September 11 is clear and irrefutable.

...Al-Qaeda must continue to be viewed as a potent and highly capable terrorist network. The network's willingness and capability to inflict large-scale violence and destruction against U.S. persons and interests--as it demonstrated with the September 11 attack, the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000, and the bombings of two U.S. embassies in east Africa in August 1998, among other plots--makes it a clear and imminent threat to the United States.

...Usama Bin Laden and 15 other subjects stand indicted for their roles in Al-Qaeda and the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in East Africa."



----Thank you for that. But if the evidence is so 'clear and irrefutable' of Osama's involvement in 9/11, why doesn't the FBI make that clear on their official wanted poster for him? by listing him as wanted specifically for 9/11. Instead of burying it 10 paragraphs down somewhere where most people won't see it?

Also, is there a Grand Jury indictment for Osama bin Laden for 9/11? It shouldn't too hard to secure one with 'clear and irrefutable evidence.'

[Bolo Boffin]

13. It is rather clear on his Wanted poster and associated pages.

Mr. Watson's testimony makes that clear.

They don't need another indictment to have the authority to arrest him. That's what indictments are about. They had him on the 1998 charges before the 9/11 attacks. They stand ready to arrest him right now, and future indictments (clearly some of which will concern 9/11) can then be sought.

[nebula]

11. No indictment for Osama for 9/11?

“The FBI gathers evidence. Once evidence is gathered, it is turned over to the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice then decides whether it has enough evidence to present to a federal grand jury. In the case of the 1998 United States Embassies being bombed, bin Laden has been formally indicted and charged by a grand jury. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting bin Laden to 9/11.”


--Rex Tom, FBI Director of Investigative Publicity



Great! We have now invaded and occupied TWO countries, essentially for no reason.

(At least not for the stated ones).

[Bolo Boffin]

14. I'm going to go with Dale Watson on this one, rather than the PR guy.

I think Dale's got more insight on the matter.

[nebula]

39. Why would you take someone's word over 'clear and irrefutable evidence?'

Because he tells you what you want to hear?

[Bolo Boffin]

43. Um, Mr. Watson has the "clear and unrefutable" evidence.

So why you would purposefully misunderstand the PR guy so that you can discount Watson's testimony is something only you can answer.

I'm good with the stated reason.

[mirandapriestly]

15. You think it is "silly" that there is no indictment for a crime

that killed thousands of people in gruesome deaths? I don't, it pisses me off. A FBI spokesman admitted they hadn't the evidence.

[Bolo Boffin]

16. Quit twisting my words.

I think the arguments being made by this position are silly.

Why does it piss you off that Osama hasn't been indicted for these crimes? You don't think he did it, do you?

[dailykoff]

17. Apparently the FBI doesn't either. (n/t)

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Do you really believe that?

Do you think the FBI is the lone holdout in a government that faked these crimes?

Or is this just a rhetorical piece of nyah-nyah-nyah for you?

[dailykoff]

19. Yes, I believe they don't have the evidence.

But that doesn't mean the FBI hasn't been turned into a GOP propaganda organ like every other federal agency. My guess is that 9/11 isn't on there for other reasons.

edit: huge numbers of FBI agents have apparently left the agency since 9/11. In fact I recently passed a hotel (not telling where) that had a "Welcome Former FBI Agents" banner hanging in front, which I take to mean that they were having a convention inside. So you have to ask, what has driven all those people to quit?

[Bolo Boffin]

20. What would those reasons be?

Please don't be coy; share your worst fantasies.

Why isn't 9/11 on there?

So they are just as much a GOP propaganda organ as anyone else, but they can't spare a few moments to present some "trumped-up evidence" to a Grand Jury and get an indictment? It sounds like a piss-poor propaganda organ, if you ask me.

[dailykoff]

21. You're not very good at connecting the dots, are you?

My guess is 9/11 isn't on there because he didn't do it and his family wouldn't allow it. My guess is that FBI agents who are more interested in doing their jobs than flacking for Junior get pushed out.

[wildbilln864]

22. my guess, dailykoff, is...

you're exactly right! :hi:

[Bolo Boffin]

25. You should learn to think for yourself.

:hi:

[Bolo Boffin]

24. So his family agrees that he did the embassy bombings? n/t

[mirandapriestly]

30. Pot Calling the

I said that no one has been indicted, not "Osama, talk about "twisting words".

[Bolo Boffin]

31. Stupid game. Isn't "Osama" included in "no one"? n/t

[mogster]

8. That is amazing

Tells a lot about the bogus evidence produced post-911 to try to tie him to 911.

[Bolo Boffin]

23. Evidence connecting Osama to 9/11

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page3682.asp

You will note that the document has a disclaimer:

This document does not purport to provide a prosecutable case against Usama Bin Laden in a court of law. Intelligence often cannot be used evidentially, due both to the strict rules of admissibility and to the need to protect the safety of sources. But on the basis of all the information available HMG is confident of its conclusions as expressed in this document.

Intelligence gathering has always been a different sphere of government from evidence collection. The CIA does intelligence, the FBI does evidence. They are similar endeavors, but they are not identical. The FBI is bound by many more considerations than the CIA.

The evidence spoken of by Mr. Watson is quite likely in one or the other of the two catagories mentioned by the UK brief.

1. The evidence may not fit into the strict rules of admissibility governing Federal cases, meaning that they got it from the CIA, and proper collection procedures were not followed to ensure the admissibility of the evidence.

2. The evidence might also comprise other evidence-collection or intelligence-gathering. Why do that when Osama can be arrested on the charges he's already indicted on?

This OP is a tempest in a teapot.

[dailykoff]

26. What evidence? (n/t)

[Bolo Boffin]

27. Stupid game. Follow the link. n/t

[dailykoff]

28. I see a lot of "conclusions," but no evidence.

For example:

* There is evidence of a very specific nature relating to the guilt of Bin Laden and his associates that is too sensitive to release.

63. In addition, Usama Bin Laden has issued a number of public statements since the US strikes on Afghanistan began. The language used in these, while not an open admission of guilt, is self-incriminating.

Under the circumstances, I'd say the FBI made the right call. :)

[Bolo Boffin]

29. Stupid game. Go away. n/t

[dailykoff]

37. There are more gracious ways of conceding. (n/t)

[Bolo Boffin]

38. I concede nothing. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

41. Reminds me of my friend's 3 year old. She says "Go away!" when her mom asks her to

stop misbehaving.

Then the 3 year old gets a time out.

Some people never progress emotionally beyond age 3, I guess.

[John Q. Citizen]

32. Is this like the evidence of WMD that georgie went to war on? Or is that different? n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

36. Why don't you read it and find out? n/t

[Daveparts]

33. The Road to 9-11 and the Road Back

By David Glenn Cox





Like many in America I was appalled by ABC Disney’s crock u drama The Road to 9-11.
I was not surprised by the spin or the inaccuracies including downright falsehoods but by the networks airing of overt government propaganda. To me at least the film says something that is of vital importance to all Americans, That there is an on going criminal conspiracy involving the events of that day, The event, the motivations, the public statements and as well as alibis.

That victors write history is well known sometimes however they must rewrite history over and over. The liar must keep changing his story as each new fact is revealed. A journeyman liar will eventually back down when confronted by overwhelming truth while a compulsive liar or a professional liar will adroitly and continually rewrite the lie. The compulsive liar cannot help himself while the professional liar sees himself as a craftsman, a wordsmith a magician with words he shows you ideas and frames them with adjectives for the sole purpose of deception. But sometimes even the giants like mighty Casey at the bat strikeout.

To understand the purpose of such a film, why cautious network executives would spend forty million dollars on such a jaded project. These executives who walk a high wire for a living, one faux pax and its curtains. So how could they see this project as having an up side for the network? Propaganda in film is as old as film it’s self from Birth of a Nation extolling the dangers of black men through Leni Riefenstahl’s Olympia proclaiming Arian superman all the way down to our own Sergeant York with Gary Cooper. But this is a different genus it’s purpose is clear it’s purpose is to cloud and misdirect the history of the day to fill the market place of Ideas with irrelevant questions and talking points. To subvert truth with fiction which in the years to come will remain constant while the actual memories will fade while The Road to 9-11 won’t

To truly understand 9-11 and films like the road to 9-11 you must go back to the beginning or rather the end, the end of representative democracy in America November 1963 Dallas Texas. After the CIA had successfully overthrown elected governments on every continent on the planet they completed a very successful operation on their own President. As Jim Garrison correctly stated “Had Americans witnessed these events taking place in Soviet Russia no one would have doubted that it was a coup d’etat.” I say very successful operation with one fatal exception Abraham Zabruter had filmed irrefutable evidence of conspiracy.


The myth:
Lee Harvey Oswald was an unhappy drifter seeking attention and to that end assassinated the President with a second hand mail order sniper rifle and a Dallas policeman with a 38 caliber revolver.

The Facts:
Oswald taught himself Russian while in the Marines serving in Europe he had a top security clearance yet was only a radar operator. He defects to the Soviet Union and renounces his citizenship claiming that he will give the Russians any information they might request. While we might question whether he was working for the CIA the Russians didn’t, placing him well out of harms way in Minsk. After several years with Russian bride in tow Oswald tells the American embassy he wants to come home, he and his Russian bride are immediately granted visas at the height of the cold war and welcomed home. Oswald is always near the center of covert operations.

He is in New Orleans affiliated with the fair play for Cuba committee passing out pro Castro literature then anti Castro literature. Then inexplicably pulls up stakes and moves to Dallas claiming he is again a Marxist on TV. Almost immediately he finds a job at the schoolbook depository through a woman his wife is working for as a maid. The woman’s family is prominently involved in Dallas right wing politics. Excuse me for focusing on Oswald but it will become apparent when you see these same coincidences again in our own 9-11 tragedy.

Oswald has pictures taken of himself holding the rifle and pistol as well as a newspaper,
What? Why would he do that? Oswald had been in the Marines six years guns were not a novelty to him. Oswald is reputed to have fired three shots in six seconds striking the President twice from behind at a distance of three hundred feet through trees. Zabruters film exposed that theory as rubbish, but for that film, it might have been a perfect crime.
Zabruters film exposed the stark cold and horrifyingly graphic image of the Presidents brain blown out the rear quadrant of his skull. Most every one knows a gunshot wound will cause a small entrance wound and a large exit wound so it becomes incredibly difficult to convince a nation that the fatal shot came from behind.

Those responsible had much work to do; Now that the official story is obviously false they had to prove with experts and blue ribbon commissions that pigs could fly under certain conditions when the weather was just right. Even to this day books are written and documentaries air explaining how it really really was Lee Harvey Oswald that performed
that miracle of marksmanship. The best rifleman in the NRA tried but none could match Oswald feat. Maybe in the ensuing forty years another marksmen might have come along a modern day William Tell but sadly the FBI lost the rifle. Lost the central piece of evidense in the crime of the century and what does the government say about that? Oh well these things happen. The Presidents autopsied brain had been kept as well and when inquiries were made for its possibly evaluation it was discovered it had been lost as well.

Oswald location says much about the conspiracy because he is so far from the scene of the crime; he avoids his best shot and waits until the motorcade turns into the plaza. An unidentified witness in front of the depository tells of seeing the shooter and describes him to police. This is almost as amazing as Oswald’s marksmanship to see straight up six stories into a window and to give a detailed description to the police only to lead the police away from the actual shooters. Like the magician what they show you is only to deceive you. Oswald has an active duty military ID card in his pocket on the day of his arrest this is never mentioned in the press as long as Oswald is alive.


The Myth:
Osama Bin Laden was a religious fanatic in charge of a world wide terrorist network, with tentacles reaching everywhere across the planet. He is not a man that could be bargained with. The only possible answer was to kill him but we had very little evidence about his where abouts and what evidence we had was at best sketchy living in the remote Torabora Mountains of Afghanistan.

The Facts:
While Osama is religious he is also said to enjoy listening to western music a habit he picked up while working in direct contact with the CIA for ten years at his same hide out while fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. Osama’s family is one of the ruling clique in Saudi Arabia, while he is personally wealthy he did not have unlimited wealth. Growing up in a country with a small population and even smaller ruling elite, to say he is well connected is an understatement.

Fighting the Russians Osama became an adrenaline junkie he established himself as a power with CIA funding. When the war ended it appeared his sun had set yet just like Oswald Osama would pop up in areas of American covert operations Sudan, Somalia just one of those strange coincidents I guess. Some how, some where there was a parting of the ways either he crossed the CIA or the CIA crossed him, and like an ugly divorce we will never know the truth for sure. The official story is that the basing of infidels in his holy land of Saudi Arabia set him off to declare Jihad on the west.

Strange how it never bothered him during the seventies and eighties when the US prepostioned military hardware and personnel. The US held joint exercises with the Saudi military forces Infidels had lived all through out the country at all levels of the society. But now as the official story goes he became a criminal mastermind. Declaring war on the west and his own country for allowing the infidels on holy soil, he left Saudi Arabia never to return except for an occasional family wedding.

There are some facts that can be argued and some that simply cannot. The administration
of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney wanted a war with Iraq. This is obvious to even the most casual observer, if you have any question in your mind whether this is not a true statement stop here. The cartoon network waits for you! This was the avowed goal of the Project for a New American Century a group that includes Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the usual cast of rightwing villains. Their position paper “Rebuilding our Defenses” calls for America to use her military force to establish unquestioned hegemony through out the world.

This position itself, which calls for preemptive war, is as frightening as it is un-American. But there is one statement that I’m sure they wish they had back the men who now surround George W Bush said what America needed was “a new Pearl Harbor.” These are their quotes and what you say can get you in trouble, that is if you don’t run the government or the media. For if you or I were to say I ought to burn my ex-wife’s house down and it were then to burn down. You and I would go to Jail! Go directly to jail do not pass go do not collect two hundred dollars

Another strange coincidence after America had its new Pearl Harbor, the magician still had rabbits in his hat and tricks up his sleeve. This administration that has so consistently had problems getting programs going hit the ground running legislation to Congress and troops to the middle east. Iraq was the buzzword and troops were on the way but again like Oswald walking out of the book depository Osama is allowed to walk away, another strange coincidence. The official story is we don’t know where he is even though we have been tracking him daily and by their own admission since the days he worked for the CIA.

What do we know for sure? Aircraft manned by men with connections to Saudi Military intelligence and lead by a man funded by the CIA for ten years crashed two airliners into two of the World Trade center towers. Within hours, three-world trade center towers would collapse. Towers constructed of concrete and steel designed to withstand hurricane force winds indefinitely collapsed into their own footprint into dust. The official story, burning jet fuel weakened the steel frames. That might explain why the top of the towers fell, but what about the rest the of eighty or so stories of the building untouched by fuel or flame?

The official story, they pan caked, why did they do that? The structure held for over a quarter century and its floors were independantly attached to a central core. It was in fact like Oswald’s marksmanship, a one of a kind event. Never in the history of the world has a skyscraper fallen after being hit by aircraft. A bomber hit the Empire State Building during WW2 and yet still it stands and yet we have two in two hours that collapsed into cartable sized rubble and one that wasn’t hit by aircraft that just fell down! Copycat collapse perhaps? its funny how these strange coincidences keep happening. Oswald ran into a Dallas movie theater passed the ticket booth without paying, the clerk advised the manager and the manager pointed out Oswald to police even though he never saw him come in. While the third building to collapsed on 9-11 the one not hit by aircraft housed the offices of the CIA in New York

Demolition work begins immediately to remove the wreckage of the towers, no one mentions or questions that this is a crime scene as the mayor bans photography at the site. The crime of the new century and the evidence is removed as soon as is humanly possible, lost like Oswald’s rifle and Kennedy’s brain. Because we have the official story now, and that’s is all that matters. A blue ribbon panel presents all the evidence that fits the original assumptions, they calculate how buildings with eighty undamaged stories collapse into their own footprint a new magic bullet theory

The EPA declares lower Manhattan safe for habitation in a week. The same agency that took five years to determine if new carpet can give you headaches. Now determines a major city safe to live in after a one of a kind cataclysm. The official story says it safe, don’t you believe? Do you claim to know more than government experts? You must be a conspiracy theorist? Never mind common sense! Prove pigs can’t fly! Your claiming conspiracy so you must prove it’s not so! We have the official theory and even though it is still just a theory ours is official because it has government seal of approval we says so. So don’t you dare question it! or we will tell the Fuehrer, er President

Just because this administration has said in the past that they’ve gotten the intelligence wrong is no reason to question the official story. If you do you will be ground down on the lathe of heaven. You may think that just because you’re a physics professor in Utah that you have some right to question why buildings fall at free fall speed. Well, the experts at Popular Mechanics refuted that! The same people who promised you a hovercraft in your garage and your own personal helicopter now carry the mantle of experts for they support the official story. The only thing falling at free fall speed here is your position at the university! To go against the official story is to drive the wrong way up a one-way street. Ask Oliver Stone what happens when you go against the Official story.

Stone’s movie JFK had a cast of almost every big star in Hollywood but it went against the official story and supposedly had some incorrect details although I’ve not yet found them. Stone was ostracized condemned and ridiculed but the truth was not that the movie was inaccurate; the truth was that it was too accurate, for it showed the truth. In bloody graphic detail twenty five feet high and forty feet across was the inescapable truth of the Zabruter film as Kennedy’s brain flies out the back of his head. The ugly inescapable irrefutable truth! If the President was shot from the front instead of the official story, then it was a conspiracy and coup d’etat.

Five years later Osama Bin Laden has not been charged with any crime involving the World Trade Center just as Oswald was never charged with shooting the President. The road to 9-11 is just more glue and paper mache trying to cement the official story in place. A story full of holes inaccuracies and mistakes, but if you question too loudly, will make you a target. We spend billions on security and inconvience millions of travelers. The travesty of making little old ladies throw away their denture cream should make us cringe in shame. Can it happen again? Yes, if they want it to we don’t check all the luggage or cargo. A terrorist could place twenty pounds of symtex in his luggage and detonate it with a key fob car door opener and do it again. But I’m sorry that’s not the official story is it? If that’s so you might ask, why hasn’t it happened again? Because a magician never does the same trick twice. But if the situation demands it, either to get their war with Iran that they are pining for or to hold onto power if the election results can’t be corrupted, they will.

Just for giggles let me pose the hypothetical, if the administration is complicit the President must be out of harms way and be provided an alibi. I’m mean you wouldn’t want him standing around playing air guitar or something would you? Why not send him to Maryland to read to schoolchildren? No no too close, how about Florida? Perfect! The President is going to this photo op because? He’s running for reelection? No, he’s a staunch supporter of public education? No, he’s pushing a new literacy initiative in Congress. To me this is the most damning piece of evidence like a stage play the major characters must be doing something, they cannot just stand on the stage with their hands in their pockets.

So, the President is bundled off to a grade school, He is informed that the first tower is hit yet goes ahead. Someone is off schedule he should be in the classroom and out of pocket when the first plane hits. The President is only person with the authority to give the shoot down order, now ask yourself again. Why did he just sit their reading My Pet Goat and starring into space? Perhaps he was analyzing the geopolitical ramifications of the situation or maybe he was trying to think of a way to sneak the book out so he could finish it on Air force one. Our maybe someone is still off schedule, maybe he sat there because he was supposed to. The official story, the President is rushed back to his limonene and issues the shoot down order, one minute not thirty seconds not two minutes and forty-four seconds but exactly one minute after the Pentagon is struck. Just another coincidence

[Bolo Boffin]

35. It's a myth that Oswald shot that policeman?

I didn't know that anyone denied that.

I guess holographic WTC towers ARE just around the corner.

[Daveparts]

40. Officer Tippet

Why Lee Harvey Oswald shot him with his revolver and for some strange reason the shell casings ejected themselves just like an automatic odd huh? Then Oswald ran to the Texas theater in world class time almost like he expected to meet someone there. odd huh?

[Bolo Boffin]

42. So you are saying that Oswald didn't shoot Tippet, right?

Why don't you just say so?

[Daveparts]

45. Not according to the witnesses

that are never called to testify

[Bolo Boffin]

46. You are a witness that was not called to testify?

I don't understand your reluctance to state something you believe. Why are you being squirrelly about this? It's a simple question.

Do you believe that Oswald did not shoot and kill Officer Tibbet?

[Daveparts]

34. The Road to 9-11 and the Road Back

                      By David Glenn Cox





Like many in America I was appalled by ABC Disney’s crock u
drama The Road to 9-11.
I was not surprised by the spin or the inaccuracies including
downright falsehoods but by the networks airing of overt
government propaganda. To me at least the film says something
that is of vital importance to all Americans, That there is an
on going criminal conspiracy involving the events of that day,
The event, the motivations, the public statements and as well
as alibis.

That victors write history is well known sometimes however
they must rewrite history over and over. The liar must keep
changing his story as each new fact is revealed. A journeyman
liar will eventually back down when confronted by overwhelming
truth while a compulsive liar or a professional liar will
adroitly and continually rewrite the lie. The compulsive liar
cannot help himself while the professional liar sees himself
as a craftsman, a wordsmith a magician with words he shows you
ideas and frames them with adjectives for the sole purpose of
deception. But sometimes even the giants like mighty Casey at
the bat strikeout.

To understand the purpose of such a film, why cautious network
executives would spend forty million dollars on such a jaded
project. These executives who walk a high wire for a living,
one faux pax and its curtains. So how could they see this
project as having an up side for the network? Propaganda in
film is as old as film it’s self from Birth of a Nation
extolling the dangers of black men through Leni Riefenstahl’s
Olympia proclaiming Arian superman all the way down to our own
Sergeant York with Gary Cooper. But this is a different genus
it’s purpose is clear it’s purpose is to cloud and misdirect
the history of the day to fill the market place of Ideas with
irrelevant questions and talking points. To subvert truth with
fiction which in the years to come will remain constant while
the actual memories will fade while The Road to 9-11 won’t

To truly understand 9-11 and films like the road to 9-11 you
must go back to the beginning or rather the end, the end of
representative democracy in America November 1963 Dallas
Texas. After the CIA had successfully overthrown elected
governments on every continent on the planet they completed a
very successful operation on their own President. As Jim
Garrison correctly stated “Had Americans witnessed these
events taking place in Soviet Russia no one would have doubted
that it was a coup d’etat.”  I say very successful operation
with one fatal exception Abraham Zabruter had filmed
irrefutable evidence of conspiracy.


The myth:
Lee Harvey Oswald was an unhappy drifter seeking attention and
to that end assassinated the President with a second hand mail
order sniper rifle and a Dallas policeman with a 38 caliber
revolver.

The Facts:
Oswald taught himself Russian while in the Marines serving in
Europe he had a top security clearance yet was only a radar
operator. He defects to the Soviet Union and renounces his
citizenship claiming that he will give the Russians any
information they might request. While we might question
whether he was working for the CIA the Russians didn’t,
placing him well out of harms way in Minsk. After several
years with Russian bride in tow Oswald tells the American
embassy he wants to come home, he and his Russian bride are
immediately granted visas at the height of the cold war and
welcomed home. Oswald is always near the center of covert
operations.

He is in New Orleans affiliated with the fair play for Cuba
committee passing out pro Castro literature then anti Castro
literature. Then inexplicably pulls up stakes and moves to
Dallas claiming he is again a Marxist on TV. Almost
immediately he finds a job at the schoolbook depository
through a woman his wife is working for as a maid. The woman’s
family is prominently involved in Dallas right wing politics.
Excuse me for focusing on Oswald but it will become apparent
when you see these same coincidences again in our own 9-11
tragedy.

Oswald has pictures taken of himself holding the rifle and
pistol as well as a newspaper,
What? Why would he do that? Oswald had been in the Marines six
years guns were not a novelty to him. Oswald is reputed to
have fired three shots in six seconds striking the President
twice from behind at a distance of three hundred feet through
trees. Zabruters film exposed that theory as rubbish, but for
that film, it might have been a perfect crime.
Zabruters film exposed the stark cold and horrifyingly graphic
image of the Presidents brain blown out the rear quadrant of
his skull. Most every one knows a gunshot wound will cause a
small entrance wound and a large exit wound so it becomes
incredibly difficult to convince a nation that the fatal shot
came from behind.

Those responsible had much work to do; Now that the official
story is obviously false they had to prove with experts and
blue ribbon commissions that pigs could fly under certain
conditions when the weather was just right. Even to this day
books are written and documentaries air explaining how it
really really was Lee Harvey Oswald that performed
that miracle of marksmanship. The best rifleman in the NRA
tried but none could match Oswald feat. Maybe in the ensuing
forty years another marksmen might have come along a modern
day William Tell but sadly the FBI lost the rifle. Lost the
central piece of evidense in the crime of the century and what
does the government say about that? Oh well these things
happen. The Presidents autopsied brain had been kept as well
and when inquiries were made for its possibly evaluation it
was discovered it had been lost as well.

Oswald location says much about the conspiracy because he is
so far from the scene of the crime; he avoids his best shot
and waits until the motorcade turns into the plaza. An
unidentified witness in front of the depository tells of
seeing the shooter and describes him to police. This is almost
as amazing as Oswald’s marksmanship to see straight up six
stories into a window and to give a detailed description to
the police only to lead the police away from the actual
shooters. Like the magician what they show you is only to
deceive you. Oswald has an active duty military ID card in his
pocket on the day of his arrest this is never mentioned in the
press as long as Oswald is alive.


The Myth:
Osama Bin Laden was a religious fanatic in charge of a world
wide terrorist network, with tentacles reaching everywhere
across the planet. He is not a man that could be bargained
with. The only possible answer was to kill him but we had very
little evidence about his where abouts and what evidence we
had was at best sketchy living in the remote Torabora
Mountains of Afghanistan.

The Facts:
While Osama is religious he is also said to enjoy listening to
western music a habit he picked up while working in direct
contact with the CIA for ten years at his same hide out while
fighting the Russians in Afghanistan. Osama’s family is one of
the ruling clique in Saudi Arabia, while he is personally
wealthy he did not have unlimited wealth. Growing up in a
country with a small population and even smaller ruling elite,
to say he is well connected is an understatement. 

Fighting the Russians Osama became an adrenaline junkie he
established himself as a power with CIA funding. When the war
ended it appeared his sun had set yet just like Oswald Osama
would pop up in areas of American covert operations Sudan,
Somalia just one of those strange coincidents I guess. Some
how, some where there was a parting of the ways either he
crossed the CIA or the CIA crossed him, and like an ugly
divorce we will never know the truth for sure. The official
story is that the basing of infidels in his holy land of Saudi
Arabia set him off to declare Jihad on the west.

Strange how it never bothered him during the seventies and
eighties when the US prepostioned military hardware and
personnel. The US held joint exercises with the Saudi military
forces Infidels had lived all through out the country at all
levels of the society. But now as the official story goes he
became a criminal mastermind. Declaring war on the west and
his own country for allowing the infidels on holy soil, he
left Saudi Arabia never to return except for an occasional
family wedding.

There are some facts that can be argued and some that simply
cannot. The administration
of George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney  wanted a war with
Iraq. This is obvious to even the most casual observer, if you
have any question in your mind whether this is not a true
statement stop here. The cartoon network waits for you! This
was the avowed goal of the Project for a New American Century
a group that includes Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the usual cast
of rightwing villains. Their position paper “Rebuilding our
Defenses” calls for America to use her military force to
establish unquestioned hegemony through out the world.

This position itself, which calls for preemptive war, is as
frightening as it is un-American. But there is one statement
that I’m sure they wish they had back the men who now surround
George W Bush said what America needed was “a new Pearl
Harbor.” These are their quotes and what you say can get you
in trouble, that is if you don’t run the government or the
media. For if you or I were to say I ought to burn my
ex-wife’s house down and it were then to burn down. You and I
would go to Jail! Go directly to jail do not pass go do not
collect two hundred dollars

Another strange coincidence after America had its new Pearl
Harbor, the magician still had rabbits in his hat and tricks
up his sleeve. This administration that has so consistently
had problems getting programs going hit the ground running
legislation to Congress and troops to the middle east. Iraq
was the buzzword and troops were on the way but again like
Oswald walking out of the book depository Osama is allowed to
walk away, another strange coincidence. The official story is
we don’t know where he is even though we have been tracking
him daily and by their own admission since the days he worked
for the CIA.

What do we know for sure? Aircraft manned by men with
connections to Saudi Military intelligence and lead by a man
funded by the CIA for ten years crashed two airliners into two
of the World Trade center towers. Within hours, three-world
trade center towers would collapse.  Towers constructed of
concrete and steel designed to withstand hurricane force winds
indefinitely collapsed into their own footprint into dust. The
official story, burning jet fuel weakened the steel frames.
That might explain why the top of the towers fell, but what
about the rest the of eighty or so stories of the building
untouched by fuel or flame?

The official story, they pan caked, why did they do that? The
structure held for over a quarter century and its floors were
independantly attached to a central core. It was in fact like
Oswald’s marksmanship, a one of a kind event. Never in the
history of the world has a skyscraper fallen after being hit
by aircraft. A bomber hit the Empire State Building during WW2
and yet still it stands and yet we have two in two hours that
collapsed into cartable sized rubble and one that wasn’t hit
by aircraft that just fell down! Copycat collapse perhaps? its
funny how these strange coincidences keep happening. Oswald
ran into a Dallas movie theater passed the ticket booth
without paying, the clerk advised the manager and the manager
pointed out Oswald to police even though he never saw him come
in. While the third building to collapsed on 9-11 the one not
hit by aircraft housed the offices of the CIA in New York

Demolition work begins immediately to remove the wreckage of
the towers, no one mentions or questions that this is a crime
scene as the mayor bans photography at the site. The crime of
the new century and the evidence is removed as soon as is
humanly possible, lost like Oswald’s rifle and Kennedy’s
brain. Because we have the official story now, and that’s is
all that matters. A blue ribbon panel presents all the
evidence that fits the original assumptions, they calculate
how buildings with eighty undamaged stories collapse into
their own footprint a new magic bullet theory

The EPA declares lower Manhattan safe for habitation in a
week. The same agency that took five years to determine if new
carpet can give you headaches. Now determines a major city
safe to live in after a one of a kind cataclysm. The official
story says it safe, don’t you believe? Do you claim to know
more than government experts? You must be a conspiracy
theorist? Never mind common sense! Prove pigs can’t fly! Your
claiming conspiracy so you must prove it’s not so! We have the
official theory and even though it is still just a theory ours
is official because it has government seal of approval we says
so. So don’t you dare question it! or we will tell the
Fuehrer, er President

Just because this administration has said in the past that
they’ve gotten the intelligence wrong is no reason to question
the official story. If you do you will be ground down on the
lathe of heaven. You may think that just because you’re a
physics professor in Utah that you have some right to question
why buildings fall at free fall speed. Well, the experts at
Popular Mechanics refuted that! The same people who promised
you a hovercraft in your garage and your own personal
helicopter now carry the mantle of experts for they support
the official story. The only thing falling at free fall speed
here is your position at the university! To go against the
official story is to drive the wrong way up a one-way street.
Ask Oliver Stone what happens when you go against the Official
story.

Stone’s movie JFK had a cast of almost every big star in
Hollywood but it went against the official story and
supposedly had some incorrect details although I’ve not yet
found them. Stone was ostracized condemned and ridiculed but
the truth was not that the movie was inaccurate; the truth was
that it was too accurate, for it showed the truth. In bloody
graphic detail twenty five feet high and forty feet across was
the inescapable truth of the Zabruter film as Kennedy’s brain
flies out the back of his head. The ugly inescapable
irrefutable truth! If the President was shot from the front
instead of the official story, then it was a conspiracy and
coup d’etat.

Five years later Osama Bin Laden has not been charged with any
crime involving the World Trade Center just as Oswald was
never charged with shooting the President. The road to 9-11 is
just more glue and paper mache trying to cement the official
story in place. A story full of holes inaccuracies and
mistakes, but if you question too loudly, will make you a
target. We spend billions on security and inconvience millions
of travelers. The travesty of making little old ladies throw
away their denture cream should make us cringe in shame. Can
it happen again? Yes, if they want it to we don’t check all
the luggage or cargo. A terrorist could place twenty pounds of
symtex in his luggage and detonate it with a key fob car door
opener and do it again. But I’m sorry that’s not the official
story is it? If that’s so you might ask, why hasn’t it
happened again? Because a magician never does the same trick
twice. But if the situation demands it, either to get their
war with Iran that they are pining for or to hold onto power
if the election results can’t be corrupted, they will.

Just for giggles let me pose the hypothetical, if the
administration is complicit the President must be out of harms
way and be provided an alibi. I’m mean you wouldn’t want him
standing around playing air guitar or something would you? Why
not send him to Maryland to read to schoolchildren? No no too
close, how about Florida? Perfect! The President is going to
this photo op because? He’s running for reelection? No, he’s a
staunch supporter of public education? No, he’s pushing a new
literacy initiative in Congress. To me this is the most
damning piece of evidence like a stage play the major
characters must be doing something, they cannot just stand on
the stage with their hands in their pockets.

So, the President is bundled off to a grade school, He is
informed that the first tower is hit yet goes ahead. Someone
is off schedule he should be in the classroom and out of
pocket when the first plane hits. The President is only person
with the authority to give the shoot down order, now ask
yourself again. Why did he just sit their reading My Pet Goat
and starring into space? Perhaps he was analyzing the
geopolitical ramifications of the situation or maybe he was
trying to think of a way to sneak the book out so he could
finish it on Air force one. Our maybe someone is still off
schedule, maybe he sat there because he was supposed to. The
official story, the President is rushed back to his limonene
and issues the shoot down order, one minute not thirty seconds
not two minutes and forty-four seconds but exactly one minute
after the Pentagon is struck. Just another coincidence

[nebula]

44. Is this what the FBI's Dale Watson is referring to

...when he speaks of 'clear and irrefutable evidence?' The alleged confession video officially released by the White House, of someone who looks nothing like bin laden?

Video analysis:
http://www.911blimp.net/videos/FakeOsamaLCexcerpt.mov




The Grand Jury probably laughed in his face when Agent Watson attempted
to enter this 'confession video' into evidence. LOL.

The official story is such a sad joke. I can't believe anyone in their right mind
would continue to buy this bullcrap.

[wildbilln864]

47. kick!

:hi: