Popular Mechanics hammered on radio

[KJF]

Listen to this:

http://www.911podcasts.com/files/audio/A003I060823-am-c3.MP3

The PM goon gets absolutely hammered by the host and the callers. I sort of half agreed with him about a point or two, but it's clear that he only knows slightly more than my cat about 9/11 (btw, DNA from 12 of the hijackers is alleged to have been found, not 19 - this is basic stuff, if you don't know it, you shouldn't go on the radio to talk about it). If this is the standard of the people they can put out, no wonder they're in full retreat and cancelling radio appearances.

[greyl]

1. People were asking a guy from Popular Mechanics about DNA

evidence? That's dumb.

Who was the PM goon?

[Grateful for Hope]

2. Listening now

thanks for posting this.

[Grateful for Hope]

3. Very good, Kevin

Host of show makes it very clear that the public is not so much interested in the evidence we have seen, but, rather, it is interested in the evidence we have NOT seen.

Moves onto building 7. PM states that about 25% of the structure itself was "scooped" out by falling debris from the other towers. Host says he looked at the pictures provided, and, dang it, he did not see this "damage" that PM is indicating was there. So, the PM dude (Davan Colbin...or something to that effect) says that NYC police showed them pics that are being held as forensic evidence.

Host questions this and asks why the general public can't see the pics. PM dude says that they were shown the pics to help them with their investigation. Host says, "what about MY investigation"? He also indicated that this was a pretty stupid move on the part of the police department to show forensic evidence to a magazine publisher. Excellent point, IMO. And, pretty unbelievable.

The DNA discussion...PM dude made a point of saying that the magazine investigated this because of the BBC article that indicated that some of the hijackers are alive. He said that the DNA from ALL the hijackers was recovered from the tower rubble (LOL), and that it was analyzed and identified as the DNA belonging to all hijackers. Host then asks where the DNA came from against which the recovered DNA was compared. PM dude pretty much said "Duh".

And, we are supposed to believe and trust in what PM says? I think not.

Good find, Kevin.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. It would have been nice of them to share these secret pictures

with NIST who put out a request for pictures of the South Side of WTC7, since they have not been able to find any.

[Grateful for Hope]

8. Wouldn't it have been?

I wonder what kind of pull PM has that NIST doesn't.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

32. That DNA would be easy to get.

If you know where someone lives, or recently lived, you go there and get DNA from personal items. Hairbrush, toothbush, bed linens, etc. Don't you ever watch CSI?

[BootinUp]

4. They yell at him and avoid asking about available evidence

generally preferring to rant about evidence the government hasn't released yet.

[Grateful for Hope]

5. Because the known evidence was not the issue

and, PM should have made whatever evidence is known clear in their writings.

[canetoad]

7. Real expert they found there

Here's Davin Coburn as an editorial assistant;
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/traveler/0201/lisbon_music.html

Here he tells us how to defy aging;
http://enjoy.defyaging.com/topstories.cfm?id=140

Studs and punters here;
http://www.cumberlink.com/PSUfootball/02/Game08/neumyer10_24_02.html

Priceless. As a mascot;
http://www.sikids.com/mascotmayhem/

And here is the piece-de-resistance, young Davin is sponsored to get a pilot's licence in a week;
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/aviation/2096232.html

Yep, he made it to the heady halls of Science Reporterdom and now has access to photographic evidence on 911 so highly secretive that it can not be released to the voters and taxpayers of America. A real golden child.

[Grateful for Hope]

9. It is surely is an amazement

Yep, he made it to the heady halls of Science Reporterdom and now has access to photographic evidence on 911 so highly secretive that it can not be released to the voters and taxpayers of America. A real golden child.

Yep, yes indeedy.

[wildbilln864]

10. And why hasn't...

Ben Chertoff been giving interviews? I'd like to see that!

[Grateful for Hope]

11. surprised this thread is not getting more interest n/t

[greyl]

12. I'm glad I downloaded this.

I can't fathom how you could say, based on that fiasco, "it's clear he only knows slightly more than my cat about 9/11". Goiter only had the brains to cover 3 major issues in 20 minutes, and he covered them pathetically.

Davin Coburn did a very good job of politely and reasonably dealing with a host that behaved like a total fucking o'reillyesque asshole. (and one caller who also fit that description)

Pentagon
For about 6 minutes, the host argued "Flight 77 didn't hit the pentagon" based on the fact that not all video has been released to the public as if Coburn were gwbush himself. He tried to score points by repeatedly demanding that Coburn answer for the government. Goiter didn't want to talk about the evidence.

WTC7
Goiter interrupted Coburn's description of the construction to demand an answer to why all of the photo evidence hasn't been released to the public. Coburn says he'd like to see as much evidence as possible, but that it isn't up to him. Then a caller brings up the "pull it" quote which must be his best evidence for Silverstein being involved in the conspiracy. Coburn explains that demolition companies don't use the term "pull it", but that Firefighters do. - Goiter cuts to commercial.

Hijackers still alive, DNA evidence
A caller mentions the single 5 year old BBC report, then lies and says that there is more than one BBC report saying hijackers are alive. Coburn says "that's false". The caller says "are you insane?". Coburn is asked where the original DNA came from to test the remains against. Coburn says he doesn't know, but that he will find out. (hotel rooms, rental cars) Coburn tries to explain that Goiter is framing the question poorly, and begins to ask "why haven't we seen any recent reports that hijackers are still alive?" Goiter interrupts to say he knows the answer, then says "I don't know the answer". Then he repeats the question 'where did the original DNA come from?'

That's the short version. I don't think I left any substance out. Insert a lot of Goyette repeating asinine questions, interrupting, and grandstanding. He behaved like quite a prick.

I give Davin Coburn a A- for not being able to answer just 1 question which he should have known: where the original DNA came from. I don't know if that info was covered in the book, but it wasn't in the original PM article.

[John Q. Citizen]

13. Coburn was ignorant of his subject...

As you can see, there are a number of sources, besides just one report on the BBC, that say the identities of the hijackers are in doubt.

Is Coburn insane, misinformed, or ignorant of his subject? I suspect the latter.

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/telegraph_stolenids.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/allafrica_deadresurfaces.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/cache/disinfo/deceptions/cnn_arrestsmade.html

I'm surprised a rational skeptic such as yourself would just flat out fall hook, line, and sinker for the misinformation that Coburn guesses he can toss around without anyone fact checking his claims, greyl.

I believe it has to do with your bias. If a 9/11 truth person had tried to make a false claim, or support a hypothesis based on a secret picture only he/she was allowed to see, I know you wouldn't just gloss over it and let it go by.

It's time you apply the same skepticism to those who share your opinions as you subject the 9/11 truth movement to. To do other wise is hardly rational, and just ends up highlighting your research bias.

[BootinUp]

14. you can't be serious. n/t

[John Q. Citizen]

15. You can't be real. n/t

[greyl]

16. Not quite. Your links don't support your argument, jqc.

I've asked you before if you could provide any links beyond 2 weeks after 9/11, and you still haven't. On the other hand, I've provided a more recent BBC link which corrects the first with updated info.

Here's a partial transcript of the relevant part of the show. Notice that Goiter changes the subject before Gavin is able to provide his full answer to the BBC question. (Btw, Pete was wrong. edit: more than once. /edit)

caller Pete: What about the 7 hijackers, 7 to 9 hijackers that were reported in the British press, who came forward and said "we're alive". What are we doing on the FBI's list of so called hijackers, we're alive and well. How do you explain that one?

Davin Coburn: Actually, my explanation for that is that've I have read that one BBC report that claims that-

Pete(interrupting): There was more than one BBC report-

Davin Coburn: But actually, it's not. That's the one thing that we've found, and that was absolutely one of those things that we looked into, I promise you. I mean that would be

Pete(interrupting): Are you saying that's false?

Davin Coburn: I am saying that is false.

Pete: Ok, how did you verify that?

Davin Coburn: Have you seen any other reports beyond-

Pete(interrupting): Let me ask you my question again, how did you verify it's false?

Davin Coburn: Because-

Pete(interrupting): Just because you don't to want to believe it's true-

Goyette(interrupting): Stop, stop, stop, stop, Ok Pete, you asked him a question, now let's find out what his answer is. Real simple question. How did you verify that the story, the British story, was false?

Davin Coburn: The remains of the hijackers who have been widely understood to have been on those planes have been-

Pete(interrupting): What remains?

Davin Coburn: There was DNA evidence collected all over the place-

Pete(interrupting): The building was incinerated, the concrete turned into powder, there were molten pools of steel in the bottom of the building that were still...hot... weeks after, and they were able to do autopsies on bodies? Are you crazy? Are you insane?

Davin Coburn: Have you seen photos of these hijackers that you're talking about-

Pete(interrupting): Where are the autopsy reports you're referring to, on the hijackers. Where are those reports? I haven't heard anything about autopsy reports.

Davin Coburn: Particularly, out of the Pentagon actually there-

Goyette(interrupting): Well I wanna know, even if we presume that you're correct that they recovered the DNA of the 19 hijackers from the rubble, where did they get their original DNA against with to match it.

Davin Coburn: My point-

Goyette(interrupting): No, don't go to your point, go to my point. Where'd they get the original DNA of a bunch of middle-eastern, uh, Islamic madmen. Where'd they get the DNA, had they submitted the DNA before they uh, I mean where the hell'd they get it? You're not even talking sensibly with me.

Davin Coburn: Off the top of my head I don't know the answer to that but I'll look-

Goyette(interrupting): Of course you don't.

Davin Coburn: I'll get back to you with it.

Goyette: Is that a promise?

Davin Coburn: I will do my best.

Goyette: People all across the state of Arizona now, are hearing Davin Coburn say on the show that he's gonna find out how they got that DNA checked against those Islamic terrorists who had shaved their bodies naked....


--Shortly, Goiter asks Coburn the same DNA question again.

[John Q. Citizen]

17. His point (and yours) of no further reports is factually incorrect, and

even if it were correct the absence of other reports doesn't prove anything. To suggest it does is logically inaccurate.

Neil Bush was scheduled to have dinner with Scott Hinckley the day after Scott's brother, John, attempted to assassinate Reagan, which would have put Neil's Dad into the oval office. The fact that it was reported only once, and with very few details other than the dinner was scheduled doesn't invalidate the initial story.

It does raise the question of why the media wouldn't follow up on a great story and why other media didn't also report the story. I don't have the answer to that, maybe you or Mr. Coburn would like to follow up on it.

[greyl]

18. Show us. nt

[John Q. Citizen]

19. I already did, but none are so blind as those who refuse to see.

But I'll try again since you ordered me to.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x111613

[greyl]

20. No, you didn't. Again, your link doesn't support your argument.

As Jazz said in the thread you linked to, those stories are 5 years old. Sound familiar?

Coburn said Pete's claim that there is more than one BBC report saying 7 of the hijackers are still alive is false. Coburn is correct, Pete was wrong, and you haven't shown otherwise.

edit:jqc: But I'll try again since you ordered me to.

Ordered you to? I'm only encouraging you to make a stronger case to support your statements, if it's possible to.

[mhatrw]

21. Coburn is full of it.

In the case of Flight 93 at least, no attempt has been made to identify any hijackers by their DNA.

Please produce a single shred of documentation that ANY hijackers have ever been identified from their DNA. There is none.

Sure, it would make sense for the FBI to have done this. Certainly, the FBI could have contacted the next of kin to get DNA confirmation in exchange for the delivery of any remains for Islamic burial. But our government's own story is that the DNA was only recovered for a subset of hijackers, and no attempt was ever made to match the supposed identities of the hijackers to the recovered DNA.

Please explain why Coburn doesn't know these simple facts. He was either lying or ignorant. As PM's supposed resident 9/11 expert, it's difficult to determine which charge is worse.

[greyl]

22. A shred? Here, from BBC in 2003

Forensic experts in New York say they have identified body parts of two of the 10 hijackers who flew planes into the World Trade Center on 11 September 2001.

Ellen Borakove, a spokeswoman for the New York Medical Examiner's Office, said the identifications had been made using DNA samples provided by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI).

The FBI had collected the DNA from tiny traces of skin on the steering wheels of vehicles hired by the hijackers and from hair samples recovered from their hotel rooms.

Earlier this month, the FBI provided profiles of all 10 hijackers, including alleged ringleader Mohammad Atta, so their remains could be separated from those of victims.

"No names were attached to those profiles. We matched them, and we have matched two of those profiles to remains that we have," Ms Borakove said.

"We haven't finished our work, so it may be more," she added.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2808599.stm

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/354992p-302463c.html

http://www.911myths.com/html/still_alive.html

edit: and may I ask if your assertion came from doing your own research or were you just repeating something you read somewhere without checking out the veracity of it?

[mhatrw]

24. So that's 2 or perhaps 3 of 19. Which 2-3? Where are the official reports?

Might I ask you where Coburn's contention that all 19 had been identified from their DNA came from other than his posterior?

From your own latest link: http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/354992p-302463c.html

To begin with, Shaler's office could not identify the three by name. That's because the 10 DNA profiles used to make the first matches were supplied by the FBI without names attached.

"No names, just a K code, which is how the FBI designates 'knowns,' or specimens it knows the origins of," Shaler wrote. "Of course, we had no direct knowledge of how the FBI obtained the terrorists' DNA."

...

"We didn't say where we put the terrorists' remains because it's not important," the medical examiner's spokeswoman, Ellen Borakove, said yesterday, adding she did not know the location herself.


So they don't know the terrorists names, nor what DNA their ostensible remains were matched to, nor even where the terrorists' remains are now. Furthermore, there has been no mention of these DNA matching efforts in any official reports, and the coroner in charge of Flight 93's DNA identification effort has declared on record that no DNA matching was performed on supposed terrorist remains collected from the Flight 93 crash site.

In summary, Coburn claim that all 19 hijackers had been identified from their DNA was either erroneous or purposeful deceit.

[greyl]

25. Now you're moving the goalposts.

Moving the goalposts explained

I'm dealing with how the radio show went at this time, and some false claims in this thread.
Pete was wrong, jqc was wrong, you were wrong. You asked for a shred to prove my assertion, you've gotten your shred.

edit: spling

[mhatrw]

26. This isn't some sort of a game.

I didn't know about the supposed 2-3 terrorist remains "DNA identifications." Great. Score three for you. Hooray. Right through the uprights.

But that doesn't affect my point one iota. Coburn was completely full of it when he claimed that the hijackers' remains had been positively identified using DNA matching. A couple sketchy media reports of 2-3 of 19 supposed hijackers whose remains were matched to FBI-supplied DNA sources of unknown origin do not make Coburn's false and misleading claim true.

[greyl]

27. Logic isn't a game.

Maybe I should have called what you were doing "raising the bar"?

By no means should you think that the shred of evidence I've already given you is the entirety of evidence that shows your new arguments are false.

edit: There are other threads specifically dealing with the hijacker issue. One recent one is titled "Help me out here: living / dead hijackers". Check it out.

[mhatrw]

28. I'm not talking about the whole hijacker issue. I'm talking about

Coburn's false claims that the hijackers were identified using DNA evidence.

If you have any reason to believe that any more than 3 of the 19 hijackers were identified in any way using DNA testing, please present it. Otherwise, simply admit that Coburn lied about this.

[greyl]

29. Can you please copy and paste from the above transcript

Coburn's exact claim, and the immediately surrounding quotes, you're talking about?

[mhatrw]

34. You mean I can't say he said it because the interviewer

interrupted Coburn before he could completely finish spinning his lies?

Do you dispute that Coburn was trying to say that "in particular" Flight 77's hijackers had been identified from their DNA?

If so, I'm done discussing this. I don't respond to complete sophistry.

[greyl]

35. No, that's not what I mean at all. See ya. nt

[BootinUp]

33. Why do you work backward from the conclusion that he lied?

Don't other human beings share musch useful or truthful information with you? (Assuming they don't have a really good reason to lie.) Just curious.

[wildbilln864]

23. kicked...

for exposure!

[canetoad]

30. Bless yer heart willbill! nt

[greyl]

31. Yes indeed, because

if he didn't kick it, the total lack of discussion within it would allowed it slide onto page 2.

[canetoad]

36. And that bothers you because..........?

[greyl]

38. what bothers me? nt

[canetoad]

37. You are bloody good value on a board Greyl

not like me, who posts infrequently.

Many people are secretive and mysterious. You, I am proud to say, are utterly transparent. You really let it all hang out, and I for one, respect you tremendously for that.

[greyl]

39. Wouldn't you agree that quality is more important than quantity?

(Unless it's food and you're starving etc...)

[canetoad]

40. Honestly don'k know

Is the best way of getting to the truth of 911;

a)by managed streams of investigation by accredited organizations
b)by anarchic, viral-driven, unregulated discourse

I wish I could answer that. What I do know is the USA and the world have been failed by the very people that promise democracy and transparency. I don't need to live in a nutters paradise to take everything I hear, see or read with a grain of salt. I wish the world was different but it's not.

Hope you take this reply in the spirit that it was sent. Peace