Coming Out Of The Conspiracy Closet: Bush & Osama In Cahoots

[K8-EEE]

Really that's what I suspected all along but the more time goes by, well, nothing ever happens to go against my theory and damned if I can think of any other answer to the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in.

First of all Osama & * have a lot of common goals (like taking out Saddam for instance.) The disgusting Bush family and the disgusting BL family have had lots of common interests, cha CHING! None of which involve alternative energy or "stopping terrorism." They are two of the biggest beneficiaries of the "war on terror," every time an incident happens it energizes the OBL & GWB insane "base" followers.

Except for: Bush's cultists are losing steam and numbers, where OBL's movement has gone from fringe to busting at the seams which I don't think BushCo really counted on; but as Chalabi proved, they are nothing if not SUCKERS!

And this "there hasn't been another incident" BS GOP talking point, well why not. What stopped anybody from blowing up my subway stop here in L.A., nothing! Anybody could fly to Mexico and walk across the border if they wanted to.

What stops them is, there's a deal. Iran-Contra style, OBL keeps the shit outside our borders and Bush takes the troops out of Saudi Arabia and takes out Saddam and lets OBL go at Tora-Bora.

Makes more sense that "we're fighting them THERE so we don't have to fight them HERE!" Hello, didn't London prove they can do both at the same time?

[stepnw1f]

1. You are Not the Only One

I've thought about it too.

[K8-EEE]

2. I Think People Are So Sick Of Being Called "Kooks" Etc

that they are relunctant to put two and two together at all; but if conspiray theories are rife in BushCo Era Uh-Murka it's because all of the shit they keep repeating over and over is constantly proved false and then they just repeat a bunch of nonsense slogans. I really feel that thinking people are consumed what WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON? I'm sure the same happens with any dictatorship, you watch the news and go, OK, they say A, so which is it, B, C, or D?

[JuniperLea]

3. I agree

And I believe this is all just the tip of the iceberg... scary, huh?

[K8-EEE]

4. What's Scary Is BushCo's DESPERATION

To not have ANYTHING really looked into....I don't know what they will do to avoid accountability but I know I don't put a damn thing past them!

[JuniperLea]

17. Not only are they avoiding oversight...

but while one side of their mouth is saying things like... it's not illegal if the president does it or it's ridiculous to even suggest we are doing that, the other side of their mouth is trying to get laws changed so they can't be charged with the crimes they are denying doing!

Unfreakingreal! They think we are all stupid! No, BushCo, only your staunch supporters are stupid! We the people are NOT stupid!

[K8-EEE]

34. But Doesn't The PATRIOT ACT Nail Them?

If in fact they've been dealing with terr'rists?? Wouldn't that be kinda fun to nail BushCo using the terra terra terra legislation?

[DemonFighterLives]

5. I'm with you

Kicked and Recommended.
dubby moved us out of Saudi Arabia didn't he.
Osama and his kin get what they want and dubby and the boys get what they want. What about the rest of us on either side? We get death, destruction and huge bills into the future.
:argh:

[K8-EEE]

6. Oh AND....They Disbanded The OBL Task Force

I mean WTF...in no way have they ever acted serious about persuing him!

[Bleacher Creature]

7. I once heard that they used to go bowling together every Friday.

;-)

[Junkdrawer]

8. How about al Qaeda as an entrapment Mechanism....

I've had this theory for a long time:

Remember how in 1984, Winston was trapped by a fake terror organization called "The Brotherhood"? What if the Saudis set up such an organization during Gulf War I to entrap enemies of the Royal Family? What if Bin Laden was either tricked or recruited to lead such an organization?

If al Qaeda is an entrapment mechanism, several mysteries unravel:

1.) Those caught by this entrapment could never be released for fear that the secret would get out. Hence Gitmo.

2.) If the NeoCons needed a "modern Pearl Harbor", perhaps all they needed to do was put a call in to their Saudi friends. You know, Sen. Bob Graham maintains the Saudi Government paid several of the 9/11 hijackers and I find him credible.

A common objection to MIHOP/LIHOP is the extent of the conspiracy they would involve. In this theory, a terrorist "asset" evolves as the Saudis endeavor to give al Qaeda street creds. Thus, a 9/11 organization is not created from the ground up, but rather an existing asset is used to further a goal.

The other reason this seems plausible to me is that it insulates the Bush administration from direct involvement, although they seem to be involved with insuring that the "Saudi Op" was not detected/stopped by the FBI and/or the CIA (a theory often referred to as LIHOP).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x88547'

[K8-EEE]

11. Whoa!!

Well al that sounds very plausible and as you say it has happened in the past. Interesting!

Really I wasn't talking about MIHOP or LIHOP but rather AFTER it happened, look how they scooted the Bin Ladens out of town (as shown on F-9/11.) And Bush meeting with Bandar Bush right after 9/11 -- to think they WEREN'T planning shit out would be stretching it!

[Junkdrawer]

13. I wrote that a while back. In the Liquid Bomb plot, it was revealed...

that much of the counter intelligence came from "double agents within al Qaeda".

I remember hearing several years back that, in the Arab street, al Qaeda was not considered a credible terrorist organization.

[Junkdrawer]

15. BTW: "1984" is a reference to the Orwell novel (SPOILER)....

In "1984", Winston Smith is so anxious to oppose Big Brother that he approaches his boss and joins "The Brotherhood". But it turns out that "The Brotherhood" was just a trap.

In an incident of "Life imitating Art", the predecessor to al Qaeda was an organization called "The Brotherhood". You can't make this stuff up.

[MissWaverly]

14. Maybe there were 2 joint attacks - 1 with jets/1 with rigged bldgs.

People said over and over again, it's like a movie.
I believe the jets went into the buildings which had been rigged for a controlled demolition.
KA-BOOM. Spectacular world shaking event.

[CJCRANE]

40. Even then

they had to throw in the anthrax to keep the paranoia going and get the Dems and media in line.

Without the lingering anthrax scare the hysteria might've abated a lot sooner.

[MissWaverly]

47. yes, that's true

but didn't you find it strange that there was no major attacks unleashed against us after
we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. Not even after the Abu Ghraibs photos were revealed.

[ikri]

42. An interesting aside

2.) If the NeoCons needed a "modern Pearl Harbor", perhaps all they needed to do was put a call in to their Saudi friends. You know, Sen. Bob Graham maintains the Saudi Government paid several of the 9/11 hijackers and I find him credible.

Long before 9/11 there was a hell of a lot of talk about a modern Pearl Harbor. The major difference is that they were desperately scared of a digital Pearl Harbor. Richard Clarke was positively paranoid about the idea - Richard Clarke's 'digital Pearl Harbor' (from wayback's archive of vmyths.com which is currently under reconstruction)
There are a number of good follow-up stories on vmyths.com but This article and http://vmyths.com/rant.cfm?id=286&page=4">This article are particularly good.

If there had been an actual attack on US interests via the internet, it would have provided the government with a brilliant opportunity to seize control of the infrastructure for security reasons and like with the Patriot Act there would have been very little public argument at the time (and probably no arguments after the fact since the government would have had control of the internet).

There's no doubt in my mind that the Bush administration was absolutely aware of an impending attack, but the direction of the attack may have been something of a surprise.

[Sinti]

50. Nice theory. I have one along similar lines

I think the Saudi Royals also use the "Arab street" and their anger toward the "great Satan" (that's us and Israel) to keep the peasants living beneath their feet from contemplating overthrow, simultaneously using our guns to keep them in line.

They do have a history that goes way, way back, and bin Laden is a son of the King's architect, after all. It gets very nasty very quickly if you go at it from this kind of angle. Usama was once an asset, if you will, when we were trying to bring down the Soviets. He recruited young zealots into Afghanistan for us at the behest of Prince Turki, IIRC.

[K8-EEE]

9. Doesn't Iran-Contra PROVE...

that politicians can and will bargain with terrorists for political advantage...hell a lot of BushCo staff are the same from the Iran/Contra days...and they aren't sorry for that at all.

[blm]

41. And BCCI proves that the Bushes and their minions WILL protect terrorists

and their financiers from those pesky Dem patriots who work to expose their global networks.

[goforit]

10. The irony, Poppy trained OBL in our private military camps. Ask why?

Well hell you all know the answer now.

[K8-EEE]

12. You Mean In the 80's?

Isn't their official line "because he was a freedom fighter for the Afghans?"

I wonder if they say "oh I'll bet you wish the Soviets were in power in Afghanistan!" You know, like "Oh you liberals wish Saddam was in power!" Jesus Saddam is another old BushCo business partner...

[readmoreoften]

16. Countdown to the dungeon.

I don't think Bush and Bin Laden are drinking buddies. I don't know whether Osama Bin Laden is "in on it" or a complete shill. But frankly, I don't care. Bin Laden is a straw man. The PNAC/BFEE are behind the whole fucking thing as far as I'm concerned.

[DemonFighterLives]

18. What always stuck in my craw

was the escape from Tora Bora.
I went on a little search and it is tough to find reference to the flights leaving Afghanistan. World Nut Daily had one that was close. I remeber Rumsfeld being asked about it and I found a link to the story.
It was on Meet The Press
http://www.dawn.com/2001/12/03/top5.htm

snip...

In an interview with NBC’s “Meet the Press”, Rumsfeld, who was asked to respond to charges by the Northern Alliance about Pakistani planes flying into Jalalabad to evacuate Pakistanis, said: “According to my information neither Pakistan nor any other country flew any planes into Afghanistan to evacuate anybody.”

He said Pakistan was cooperating fully with the United States in its campaign against terrorism as it had deployed crack troops on the border with Afghanistan to stop anyone from escaping into Pakistan.

He said the US had been monitoring the skies in Afghanistan as skillfully as possible and that he had not seen any evidence of any planes flying to evacuate anybody to Pakistan or any other country.

Mr Rumsfeld said on Sunday no one in Taliban or al-Qaeda leadership would be allowed to escape or make a deal to escape.
----
Amazing how this story has nearly disappeared. Ossie flew out under our supervision.
:dem:

[OnionPatch]

19. I see no reason why

this could not be a possibility. Perhaps they were in cahoots, Bush BSing Americans and OBL faking it to his followers. Conspiracy theory? Well, a good detective has to consider all possibilities when a crime is committed. I would never say I thought for sure this is what is going on, but I also can't rule this possibility out.

[tlsmith1963]

20. Oh, I Believe It

I usually am not the type to believe in conspiracy theories, but this one makes total sense. That's what's scary. It's just too much of a coincidence that every time Bush is in trouble, we get a new terrorist threat. Two days after Lieberman lost was the last one, & his loss really put a scare into the Republicans. I really wasn't surprised when that threat happened. "Here we go again. Bush is in trouble, & we get new terror warnings again", I thought at the time. So yeah, this could be true.

Tammy

[AX10]

21. Why did Bush let OBL free at Tora Bora?

That tells us alot of Bush.

[Sir Jeffrey]

22. I read something yesterday that may be of interest...

to this discussion.

If anyone here has read/studied Hegel, you'll probably remember the "triad" theory for how history advances (crudely referred to as "thesis, antithesis, synthesis"). Wiki has a decent explanation of this if it is new to you and you are interested in what I am typing.

Anyway, applying this to a poltical situation paints current events in a new light. It is possible, through Hegelian's triad, to look at the Bush/bin Laden situation in this manner to gain insight:

Bush and bin Laden have business and personal contacts extending well into the past. The organizations to which the Bush dynasty belongs are well-entrenched in the elite of Western society. The bin Laden family has a similar presence in the Middle East.

If we can now all agree that control of natural resources is the ultimate goal of US foreign policy in the Middle East, let us examine the world since 2001 with that in mind.

Bush, by proclaiming himself to be the champion of western democracies and christianity, has assumed the role of antagonist for the Middle East: "thesis". Bin Laden, by proclaiming himself to be the champion of self-determination for the Middle East and the leader of the resistance, has assumed the role of antagonist for the West: "antithesis".

So what is the "synthesis"? I've been troubled by this for years...and I think I understand it now. The "synthesis" will be the elimination of antagonists by creating an endless supply of antagonists.

The result of this "synthesis" will be simply the elimination of anyone willing to resist. Ethnic cleansing. Citizens in Western democracies have proven of late to simply accept, albeit with reservations, the decisions of the elite. We'll have peaceful protests, but we'll never really threaten our governments when they do horrible things. We accept creature comforts and false realities...and the vast majority of our populations accept the lies disseminated through the media because seeing the truth (pictures of children with their faces blown off) is too upsetting.

This thought sent chills through my body last night. They are using bin Laden, as a CIA asset, to recruit the most militant revolutionaries in the Middle East so they can be eliminated in mass numbers. That is why they don't catch him. His job is to recruit and fund "terrorists". By killng off those most willing to take up arms, they are creating an environment whereby the rest can be controlled as we are controlled in the West i.e. propaganda, dumbing down, etc. And once the Middle East is removed of revolutionaries and nationalists, control over natural resources will be easy.

[Disturbed]

23. When I posed this theory two years ago on another site

I was called few derogatory names. Osama may not a be a deep cover CIA asset but the theory is not out so crazy, is it?

[Sir Jeffrey]

27. The Taliban wanted to turn him over before the war...

but we weren't about to turn over any evidence. The BBC has all kinds of stories on that.

Same thing with Iraq (not to get sidetracked). We didn't care about evidence of WMDs...we had Chalabi telling us what we wanted to hear and that was what we relied on to get us into a losing war. And of course, all "reasonable" people can now agree that we can't pull out now...we have work to do. More Iraqis to kill, I suppose.

[Raksha]

24. Your theory makes WAY too much sense!

It's sending chills down my back too.

[bdamomma]

29. very good post, anything is possible with this crime family.

[windbreeze]

30. WOW....simply wow!!

now that puts it in an easy to understand package....
wb

[bananarepublican]

32. "Rule by Secrecy" by Jim Marrs touches on this also. It also goes...

... into a lot of detail concerning 'the elites'.

[K8-EEE]

33. Again May I Say....WHOA!

GAK!! Makes sense, makes sense....don't you crave any explanation that makes sense after being subjected to years of this stupid BushCo rhetoric!

[DemonFighterLives]

35. The synthesis is the enrichment of both arms of the octopus

The military inducstrial complex is happier than a pig in sh*t and if the Saudi's need more money the oil price has doubled. I think in their case it is protection for the royals, the money being passed back and forth as needed.
:dem:

[Sir Jeffrey]

37. I considered the "enrichment" angle by itself...

and I agree that it is part of the synthesis, but there are ways for the "arms of the octopus" to enrich themselves without resorting to mass extermination.

The military budget is mostly giveaways to the military contractors. Besides, the US economy really is in serious trouble because of our military exploits...which tells me that for some reason the elites think it is more important to ethnically cleanse the Middle East than live in peace and store up fortunes.

I think it is also telling that elites (in both parties) push the meme that we were wrong to have voted for the Iraq War, but we have to stay in and finish the job.

Also, if the elites wanted to keep making billions, they could always have smaller wars or humanitarian intervention to fall back on. Darfur, Congo, etc.

[DemonFighterLives]

49. Now that we are in the basement, we can talk

:rofl:
I never see the depopulators mentioned, but when I was searching for stuff on Michael Ledeen and the forged documents that helped the push for war, I ran into many things.
There were mentions of infiltrators in the 911 truth movement and some of them were tied to depopulation.
:shrug:

[Sir Jeffrey]

51. Links?

I'd like to know if I am unwittingly pushing OSP propaganda.

[DemonFighterLives]

52. I was afraid you would ask that

I had a Ledeen thread that I can't find that was last seen in the 911 forum.
Here is one on Depopulation:
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/depopulation.htm
clip...
Investigations by EIR have uncovered a planning apparatus operating outside the control of the White House whose sole purpose is to reduce the world's population by 2 billion people through war, famine, disease and any other means necessary. This apparatus, which includes various levels of the government is determining U.S. foreign policy. In every political hotspot -- El Salvador, the so-called arc of crisis in the Persian Gulf, Latin America, Southeast Asia and in Africa- the goal of U.S. foreign policy is population reduction. The targeting agency for the operation is the National Security Council's Ad Hoc Group on Population Policy. Its policy-planning group is in the U.S. State Department's Office of Population Affairs, established in 1975 by Henry Kissinger. This group drafted the Carter administration's Global 2000 document, which calls for global population reduction, and the same apparatus is conducting the civil war in El Salvador as a conscious depopulation project.

---
That may seem old and outdated, but there is more out there.


Ledeen:
http://www.alternet.org/story/15860/

snip..


Ledeen's ideas are repeated daily by such figures as Richard Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and Paul Wolfowitz. His views virtually define the stark departure from American foreign policy philosophy that existed before the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001. He basically believes that violence in the service of the spread of democracy is America's manifest destiny. Consequently, he has become the philosophical legitimator of the American occupation of Iraq.

Now Michael Ledeen is calling for regime change beyond Iraq. In an address entitled "Time to Focus on Iran -- The Mother of Modern Terrorism," for the policy forum of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA) on April 30, he declared, "the time for diplomacy is at an end; it is time for a free Iran, free Syria and free Lebanon."

---
:shrug:

[Sir Jeffrey]

54. Interesting links...

I skipped work today to look into this more. I came across this on DKos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/22/7563/12283

"Keyser Soze aka Michael Ledeen.

Michael Ledeen was one of the founders of the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs (JINSA). He holds the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), a think tank for AIPAC. He is co-founder of the Coalition for Democracy in Iran. As far back as 1980, the CIA allegedly listed Ledeen as an agent of influence of Israel. Ledeen is the main foreign policy advisor to Karl Rove. Ledeens main obsession seems to be to overthrow Iran.

In 1972 he published the book Universal Fascism, in which he expounds upon "the rightness of the fascist cause." In Universal Fascism, Ledeen first builds his case that fascism was the "20th Century Revolution" and that "people yearn for the real thing - revolution". It's the blueprint for a fascist revolution."

!

Of course "Universal Fascism" is out of print currently. Damn, I thought more would have "yearned" for it.

More on that from, of all places, The American Conservative:

http://www.amconmag.com/06_30_03/feature.html

"Indeed, Ledeen criticizes Mussolini precisely for not being revolutionary enough. “He never had enough confidence in the Italian people to permit them a genuine participation in fascism.” Ledeen therefore concurs with the fascist intellectual, Camillo Pellizi, who argues—in a book Ledeen calls “a moving and fundamental work”—that Mussolini’s was “a failed revolution.” Pellizzi had hoped that “the new era was to be the era of youthful genius and creativity”: for him, Ledeen says, the fascist state was “a generator of energy and creativity.” The purest ideologues of fascism, in other words, wanted something very similar to that which Ledeen himself wants now, namely a “worldwide mass movement” enabling the peoples of the world, “liberated” by American militarism, to participate in the “greatest experiment in human freedom.” Ledeen wrote in 1996, “The people yearn for the real thing—revolution.”"

!!

Doesn't this only strengthen the argument that the ultimate goal of US foreign policy in the Middle East is ethnic cleansing? It appears that the greater goal would be extending "democracy" (Italian Fascism) throughout the Middle East. Israel's role would be to act as a target for "extremists". Why? To give us justification to go to war/ethnically cleanse the terra-ists every so often. Nobody would go for dragging every Afghani, Iraqi, Palestinian, and Persian civilian into a gas chamber. Wait for one of the bin Laden's extremists to kill some Israelis = casus belli. This is why I think bin Laden is still on the CIA payroll...or at least still on the Bush dynasty's payroll. You don't just hop out of something like that once you're in. They would have killed him by now.

One more:

http://comment.independent.co.uk/commentators/article318195.ece

"At the beginning of 2001, a few weeks before George Bush took office, there was a break-in at the Niger embassy in Rome. Strangely, nothing of value was taken. Months later came 9/11 and a month after that, as George Bush wondered how to get back at the terrorists, a report from the Italian security service (Sismi) reached the CIA: Iraq was seeking to buy uranium."

This one paragraph tells us all we need to know about 9/11, Iraq, Iran, Patriot Act, etc. In Januray 2001, they knew we were going to war, they knew we were going to be attacked on 9/11, and they set about selling the public on it.

IMO if anyone is "infiltrating" the 9/11 truth movement, it would be intelligence groups attempting to hide this information or suppress it.

Gee, I'm depressed now.

[DemonFighterLives]

55. Oh the webs they weave- when they practice to deceive

I never found the links on the truth movement thing, but you are right. They were trying to throw more crap on the wall and disrupt the independent investigations.

Ethnic cleansing sure, but also w doesn't seem to care who dies. I don't see him shedding any tears for our troops or changing any policies. He's just ready to go for broke, knowing that him and the cronies will somehow pull through.

[mirandapriestly]

44. interesting, and chilling,idea

i will add ME civilians to the list.

[sendero]

25. I've been thinking..

.. more or less the same thing. It's all too pat. The idea that we can bring democracy to Iraq but we can't find OBL is ludicrous.

[bdamomma]

26. I've always believed there is a connection between osama and bush

why did he let him just go?? oil buddies maybe???

[Justice Is Comin]

28. He's living in lavish luxury in a saferoom behind the Lincoln bedroom.

[Senator]

31. And Then There's "Bandar Bush" (Tora Bora - The Prequel)

From a Frontline interview with Lowell Bergman:

In 1996, though, he is being asked by the Sudanese to leave ... because of pressure from the United States and from your government.

Correct.

They tell us they offered him to you, and you didn't want to take him.

Well ... I am not fully aware of the details of this. But I think it's a gray area.

Well, he had to fly out. ... He flew out over Saudi airspace. ... And he arrives with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Correct, but he didn't get an aircraft and say, "Hey guys, I'm coming across." I think he would have ... that would have had a different outcome to it.

But I think, to be honest with you, look, we never gave him the weight that now everybody is giving him. We just thought he was a nuisance, and he was bad for the image of Saudi Arabia, of Islam, his family. We never thought of him as the bin Laden who is doing all of this. ...

Uh huh. Merely a "nuisance" but you'd have shot him out of the sky if you could?!?

Yep, that's pretty gray alright.

Since this "senior moment" of Bandar's, a lot of misinformation has been ladled out about the "Sudan Story." The propagandists have been furiously spinning it to bash Clinton (surprise!) who couldn't legally accept OBL because he wasn't charged here. (The US had yet to become "Kidnappers and Torturers 'R US.")

The bottom line is that the Saudi's refused to help the US.

Oh, and the offer was made in Feb, '96. In March, '96 Poppy Bush just happened to be in Riyadh -- collecting yet another golden bauble in thanks for liberating the Kuwaiti Royals. Think the subject came up?



(actual photo)


--

[GeorgeGist]

36. One problem with your theory...

Osama is winning and Bush is losing. Which suggests that the neocons have been conned... big time!

[johnnie]

39. But what is bush losing?

I think he and his pals got exactly what they wanted all along.

[MetaTrope]

38. And Dubai Ports World still hasn't sold off the U.S. operations it runs

Despite the fact that its owner enjoyed a couple of weekends hunting with Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan.

[moondust]

43. Whatta deal.

Republicans have a history of making agreements to arm terrorists and thugs. Iran/Contra, Election 1980, germs for Saddam, ... (I'd love to know what the terrorists got in exchange for the release of those hostages on the day Reagan took office.)

The BFEE would have no trouble keeping in touch with OBL considering poppy's old CIA connections and the Bush/bin Laden family love affair.

My question is when will OBL cease to be the Republicans' biggest asset and they decide they'll have to liquidate him. Maybe after this election cycle. But that might be too late...

[John Q. Citizen]

45. More likely before this election cycle. Or bin Laden may already be

long dead.

The Iran/Contra was a two fer in terms of supporting the bad guys. They sent arms to the mullah so they could fund the terrorist Contras, who were famous for attacking schools, health clinics, water works, etc, but judiciously staying clear of actual engagements against the Nicaraguan military.

[pauldp]

48. that would be a three fer...

don't forget the California drug lords who got tons of pure central american cocaine
out of the deal.

[John Q. Citizen]

53. Yep, and the devastation of crack cocaine propelled the drug war

forward, and led to the private prison boom.

Is that a five fer?

[Sinti]

46. If you look at who is raking in the change and read up on the history

of all persons involved (going back to the '40s-50s-60s) you will certainly come to a similar conclusion. The GWOT is the biggest con ever played and we all (peace loving humanity of all nations involved) are the mark.

War Is A Racket