Conspiracy theorists blog that Flight 93 photo is fake

[bushatbooker]

Conspiracy theorists blog that Flight 93 photo is fake

Sunday, August 06, 2006

By Caitlin Cleary, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

~

But Mrs. McClatchey's fame has recently taken a sour turn. The real estate agent has recently become a target of bloggers calling themselves "9-11 researchers," who are seeking to prove that the U.S. government was complicit in the attacks that brought down the Twin Towers, pierced the Pentagon and crashed United Airlines Flight 93. "The End of Serenity" has turned out to be their smoking gun.

The smoke plume doesn't line up right, they say. It is too large in the frame. The smoke is characteristic of an ordnance blast, not a jet fuel fire, further evidence that the government shot down Flight 93. They analyze wind direction, debris patterns and camera trajectories, all in the service of the theory that the crash was faked.

~

"If the smoke plume was photo-shopped on there, then that could mean either that the photo was simply a fraud by Val, or it was a fraud by her and the FBI and/or other government agents since she did mention that the FBI did inspect the memory card from her camera," writes a blogger identified as Killtown.

~

About Mrs. McClatchey's "End of Serenity," Killtown concludes that either the smoke plume in the photo came from a bomb blast closer to her house, or that the picture was faked by Mrs. McClatchey or the FBI. Killtown writes: "If the first is true, then Val may be off the hook. If any of the latter two are the case, then Val, you got some splainin' to do!" He then proceeds to post her home address, phone number and personal e-mail information.

Mrs. McClatchey acknowledged that a lot of people are alleging she fabricated the photo, but she stands by its authenticity. Days after Sept. 11, neighbors saw the image, still in her camera. The camera and computer were new, and she didn't have access to Photoshop or any other photo-altering software.

"I know that photo is completely legitimate," Mrs. McClatchey said. "Other people saw the same thing I saw."

Special agent Jeff Killeen, of the FBI in Pittsburgh, confirmed that the photo of the barns and the smoke plume was "a very legitimate photograph."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

Response to this article here:

"McClatchey photo blogpost makes mainstream news"

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/08/mcclatchey-photo-blogpost-makes.html



Original photo analysis here:

"Val McClatchey Photo: More Smoking Guns, or Total Fraud?"

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

[greyl]

1. Killtown.

Killtown is one of the biggest pieces of shit this side of Dylan Avery. They do nothing for "9/11 Truth" except dilute it.
Yes, I know what ad hominem means.

It's a decent article, thanks.

Mrs. McClatchey acknowledged that a lot of people are alleging she fabricated the photo, but she stands by its authenticity. Days after Sept. 11, neighbors saw the image, still in her camera. The camera and computer were new, and she didn't have access to Photoshop or any other photo-altering software.

"I know that photo is completely legitimate," Mrs. McClatchey said. "Other people saw the same thing I saw."

Special agent Jeff Killeen, of the FBI in Pittsburgh, confirmed that the photo of the barns and the smoke plume was "a very legitimate photograph."

"We consider that a photo that was taken moments after Flight 93 crashed to the ground," Mr. Killeen said. "It's a remarkable shot. It's remarkable that someone had the wherewithal to snap a photo of the crash. This is a one-of-a-kind. We really don't know of anything else."

The photo is even more surprising considering the sparsely populated area around the crash site, Mr. Killeen said. He compared "End of Serenity" to a hypothetical photo of the first bombs hitting Pearl Harbor, or a still image of one of the commercial jetliners in mid-collision with the twin towers.

As for the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, Mr. Killeen said, "They can debunk all they want." On Sept. 11, he was at the site shortly after the crash, and knows the amount of debris and other evidence that was gathered from the scene but was never made public. Officials did look into the possibility that Flight 93 was shot down, he said, "but there's no evidence to suggest that whatsoever. None."
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

[bushatbooker]

2. P.O.S? Why do you say that?

[greyl]

3. meh, most people here know why.

He was banned for a very good reason.

[bushatbooker]

4. And that was?

So far I just see ad hominem attacks by you.

[greyl]

5. Read the article in your OP for a clue. nt

[bushatbooker]

8. I don't see the "clues"

Why don't you tell me, or do you just like attacking people's character?

[greyl]

10. I don't believe you. nt

[bushatbooker]

12. Well obviously you are just out here to character assassinate

so if you have any evidence to back up your claims against people's character, then be brave enough to post them. Otherwise beat it.

[greyl]

15. Search for his name, read the link in your OP.

Don't tell me to beat it, bushatbooker. I don't care to give killtown any more attention.

[bushatbooker]

18. Ok I searched. What am I looking for?

You are being very evasive for accusing someone of having no credibility. I guess that makes you have no credibility either, huh?

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bushatbooker]

36. greyl's or killtown's?

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bushatbooker]

40. Who else are his ID's?

[Jazz2006]

42. They are easy to pick out ~

Just utilize your research skills and they become blatantly apparent.

[bushatbooker]

44. Funny you mention a dozen

and you can't even tell me ONE! (other than apparantely thinking I am in which go ahead and think that. I dig his research.)

[Bolo Boffin]

47. No names are necessary, BAB.

Go looking for tombstones.

[Jazz2006]

58. Actually, I mentioned half a dozen, not a dozen.

Nice to see those razor sharp CT reading comprehension skills at work again.

And as boloboffin says, names are not necessary - and it would be against the DU rules to publish them in any event - but just do a quick stroll through the cemetery and they are obvious enough.

Edit to fix subject line.

[mirandapriestly]

51. heh heh..eom

[Jazz2006]

78. heh heh - sounds like a trailer park term.

*I actually self deleted this initially but then saw that the person calling herself "mirandapriestly" had responded to it so I had to reinstate it.

[mirandapriestly]

79. No, you're thinking of "hee hee".eom

[Jazz2006]

81. No. I got it right the first time.

Hee hee is quite different.

It involves actual humour, for instance. Not that you'd "get it" even if I tried to explain it to you in detail, so I won't. But when you're in a "research" mood or a "truth seeking" mood, you can find out for yourself.

I won't hold my breath waiting.

[Bryan Sacks]

6. The 'fake flight 93 crash' meme is one of the most destructive out there

Photo analysis doesn't mean much. If you have doubts whether a plane hit there, get your ass to Shanksville and investigate.

No one - not the coroner, not the mayor, not the folks who were on the scene immediately after the crash, not the guy whose house and property was splattered with plane parts and human remains - doubts that a plane hit. Only internet researchers could cook up such a contemptuous theory.

[KJF]

7. Agree completely

Off topic: Do you live anywhere near Newark?

[Bryan Sacks]

28. not too far from Newark

About 75 minutes south.

[KJF]

33. If memory serves you went to check out Shanksville

There's something in Newark that I think needs checking out (I live thousands of miles away, that's why I'm not volunteering).

This is what it is:
One day before 9/11 hijacker pilot Ziad Jarrah spent 52 dollars on clothing at a shop in Newark. I just found this out based on new documents released following the Moussaoui trial. You can find the chronology of events for Ziad Jarrah's last few weeks here:
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/OG00020-03.pdf
Check out the entry for 9/10.

There's a listing for a Joe Fishman clothing (without the "c" in Fishman, I guess the FBI spelled it wrong) here:
"JOE FISHMAN CLOTHING 973-642-8235
20 BRANFORD PL
NEWARK, NJ 07102"
http://www.magicyellow.com/category/Men's_Clothing_and_Furnishings_Retail/Newark_NJ.html

I'm curious as to what Jarrah bought. Was it the red bandanas:


It would be helpful if somebody went to Newark, checked out the range and asked the people at the shop what Jarrah bought. It's hardly a thrilling idea, but something might come of it. What do you think?

[Bryan Sacks]

62. thanks for the tip, KJF

Maybe a day trip is in order.

[Ferry Fey]

75. Visiting Fishman's in Newark

Here are some considerations for a trip to Joe Fishman's Clothing in Newark. You've probably thought of most of them, but just to be sure I'll go over the most important ones.

Check hours and days open before you go. Back in the days when my grandmother lived there, Newark had a substantial Jewish population. You don't want to travel a long way to get there only to find that it's a shop that still keeps an Orthodox schedule on a Saturday you have free to travel.

Get the name of the manager and/or owner who is in charge there, and find out beforehand when he or she will be there.

Bring a good-sized, clear copy of the red "bandana" image. Ask if the FBI ever did come in in 2001 or later to question them about it. If the FBI are making errors about the shop's name, I'm not going to assume that they did the extra research to find the correct name, and thus address. Ziad did send a package of some sort to his girlfriend before he took his flight, but I don't recall seeing anything on what was in it.

I spent some time doing an analysis of what I could see of this "bandana" and posted it somewhere here in the DU 9/11 section this summer, but have not been able to locate it since. Many of my hobbies involve textiles, so I was able to look at it with a sharper eye than most.

My assessment was that this was in no way a standard 22 inch square bandana. There is no way a bandana of that sort could be folded in the way it is in that bag that would produce the number of twists and turns exhibited. Working with a 2" wide sash I have, I was able to get it into that fold pattern only by using about 5 feet of sash. That red cloth item that is labeled Government Exhibit PA00111 01-455-A appears to be a woman's sash belt, more likely to be worn on a pair of jeans or a jean skirt than as a hijacker's headband. FWIW I didn't get any disagreement on that at the time, nor suggestions of what subculture of young men might wear a sash like that as a headband.

And that, of course, is aside from the fact that it is clean and pressed (or permanent-pressed) and clearly wasn't wrapped around the head of someone who was blown to smithereens.

"I'm gonna was that DNA right outta my hair..."

Has anyone noticed any government exhibits in that series which would help to pin down the exact size of the "bandana" by correlating the white evidence label with something that could give its exact size? If I knew that the white label was 1 1/3 by 4" (for example), the size of the Avery label that is 14 to a page, I could pin down the sash size a little more exactly.

[Make7]

76. Is this the post you are talking about?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=82548&mesg_id=83866

[Ferry Fey]

91. Yes, that's the original textile wonk rant on bandanas

Thanks for the link.

I'm one of those people who has a closet full of fabric, and snarls like a rottweiler when someone suggests that we hang clothing in it. :D

I may see if I can find some red bandana yardage and work up a duplicate that fits my theory one of these days, so I can do a show and tell.

[petgoat]

89. Wow, good work FF! I'm impressed! nt

[greyl]

Yes. It was a one groove record with that guy.

I haven't totally ruled out that it was shot down, but the amazingly shitty arguments/photo analysis that friends of webfairy/killtown provide, are just... ugghh. Not helpful to anyone.

edit: "One groove record"? That was dumb. All records have one groove.

[salvorhardin]

46. Oops. I've got to say that's in error.

Most records have two sides thus two grooves. I suppose there are some records that only have one groove because they only had one playable side. I'm thinking the novelty 45s we used to get on the back of cereal boxes as kids.

[greyl]

66. Hah! :)

Back to my original statement then. Way to catch it. Why don't "truthers" catch errors in fact like that?

[bushatbooker]

9. This is not so much about the 93 crash

as it is about the photo being doctored, or shows an ordnance blast from a closer location.



"On my last photo analysis, I included two equally sized explosions (orange) that I generously estimated that would have come from the crash scene area (based mostly on the size of the burnt forest section) and I inserted one where it first meets the two plume width lines (grey lines). You can cleary see that the explosion cloud in Val's photo could not have been anywhere near the crash scene, but only much closer to her house:"

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

[greyl]

11. ...as it is about giving attention to killtown. nt

[bushatbooker]

14. So if he could prove 9/11 was an inside job

you wouldn't want him to because you don't want to give him the attention???

[greyl]

16. If he could, did, or actually tried to, I'd give him plenty of attention.

However, his credibility is totally skunked with me.

[bushatbooker]

17. Credibility skunked, why?

And didn't you read the analysis?...

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/val-mcclatchey-photo-more-smoking-guns.html

[Jazz2006]

59. Exactly. nt

[readmoreoften]

13. Who is the guy whose house was splattered with human remains?

I'd really like to talk to him. Do you have any links or a name? I know someone who was on the plane and I think that it would help put some friends' minds at ease.

[Bryan Sacks]

63. I know his name, but he's a private kind of guy

I would not feel right giving out his name. Tell you what, though: I found out his name by going to Shanksville and simply talking to people. It's a tiny place. We were introduced to him he next day. He was kind enough to show us around his property.

he might do the same for you if you took a trip to Shanksville :)

[Artdyst]

30. "No one - doubts that a plane hit" Your own post undermines your claim.

The "guy whose house and property was splattered with plane parts and human remains" is what I'm talking about. Are you saying that "the plane" crashed in two different places? Did it crash and do a cartwheel over the guy's house and end up in the pit?

Human remains found somewhere other than the alleged crash site doesn't prove that a plane crashed in the location where it is alleged to have crashed.

The coroner said he couldn't find even one drop of blood at the crash site. How could that be possible?

Maybe I misunderstood you. I thought you were being serious, but perhaps you were just being sardonic.

[Bryan Sacks]

64. I was being serious

His house was about 110 yards from the crash site. Human remains splattered everywhere, as did miniscule plane parts. Some of that debris is still there to this day.

The plane crashed in one place. It DID do a cartwheel-type maneuver afterwards, which would make sense to you if you went to visit the crash site from his property. It's on a slope, and the angle of the impact was such that parts of the plane plugged into the ground (just before a monstrous explosion ripped it apart), and pieces of the back sections were hurled forward (including the 1/2 ton piece of plan engine found about 300-400 yards downhill from the crash site).

Do you get what I'm saying? It is utter foolishness to look at some photos online and cook up a theory that discounts the lived experience of dozens, even hundreds of local eyewitnesses. I spoke to the coroner for two hours. To imply that he has even the slightest suspicion a plane crashed there is plainly false. His name is Wallace Miller. I don't mind giving his name, as he is a public official. Why dont you call him and ask him whether he thinks it's possible a plane didn't crash there?

[Artdyst]

65. How does it feel to have made a historic discovery about 9/11?

Keep the details about that cartwheeling plane to yourself for right now.
You might get a book offer from one of the rightwing publishing companies. Maybe some of the other Bush conspiracy theorists here can provide you with some helpful contacts in the RW publishing industry.

[Bryan Sacks]

87. I discovered nothing

The account of the plane's likely fate was told to me by your precious "not a drop of blood" coroner. News reports are consistent with it, which you'd know if you gave a shit about getting the right stoy.

Here's a hint for you: when you're wrong, admit it, even if it upsets you to be shown you're wrong. You're plainly wrong in this case. No harm in that. But pretending there's a case for some baseless is harmful.

Make your case, or have the decency to shut up.

[mirandapriestly]

52. They still have the site closed off, I believe.eom

[mirandapriestly]

57. why, for making personal attacks?

[Make7]

69. Does that picture mean 'killtown' is the black kettle? ( n/t )

[mirandapriestly]

80. Killtown didn't make any comment

how could it be about him? Good try, but it doesn't work.

[Make7]

90. Isn't the expression: "the pot calling the kettle black"?

So if greyl is the pot, is he also the kettle? That doesn't make sense.

Maybe greyl is the kettle, and you're the pot. That would at least allow the picture you posted in response to him to make a little more sense.

Or perhaps you are the kettle and that's why it is unlabeled in your own post. Although that doesn't make much sense either.

Just wondering...

- Make7

[Artdyst]

67. Because killtown's research findings are so devastating to the OCT

With all of the resources OCT'ers have available, and considering how many of them there are, one would think that if they could refute killtown's findings, they would. After all, it hardly helps their image to ONLY be able to try and smear the character of their betters.

[Jazz2006]

70. Er, no.

It's because killtown's ridiculous theories are so ridiculous that they are worthy only of ridicule.

[bushatbooker]

74. Which theories on his website break from the majority

of the 9/11 truth movement?

[mirandapriestly]

82. Yes, my goodness they have the Bush administration,

the corporate media (same thing), & the evangelicals on their side, you'd think they'd be able to refute some little ol' "kook" with a web site without having to go all "ad hom" on him.

[Jazz2006]

83. I'm surprised that the admins haven't caught on by now

but I guess that's because those of us on the skeptic side don't whine to the mods like the CTers do.

But it's blatantly obvious who's who here viz a viz "killtown" ~ nobody but a triple thick gauge tinhatter would ever even mention that lame site, let alone promote it as is being done on this thread by a supposed newbie.

[John Q. Citizen]

19. If, as the article says, the person or people who go by the name

of "Killtown" want to make an accusation and yet also want to remain anonymous, then I can't possibly buy into the validity of their accusation.

There is no way to determine if they (Killtown) are in fact members of the 9/11 truth movement or agent provocateurs working to discredit the 9/11 truth movement.

Why greyl would lump Dylan Avery (the creator of Loose Change) into the same category as "Killtown" is a mystery to me. Avery has produced a pretty decent video documentary, has done interviews, and whether one agrees with his premise(s) or not, he stands behind his production. I believe he is sincere. Others can make up their own minds.

But there is no way to discern the sincerity or the motives of an anonymous source. That source should be discarded ASAP, and by all sides of the debates. By that I mean the source should be disavowed by the 9/11 truth movement as well as by the defenders of the OCT. It is just as irresponsible for someone to site "Killtown as "a member of the 9/11 truth movement" as it is for non- believers of the OCT to site "Killtown" as evidence of government cover-up or involvement.

[greyl]

20. Ah, we agree on something. Plus, you're right about something else.

killtown is worse than Avery.

[John Q. Citizen]

22. Will wonders never cease? :)

But are you worse than Avery?

(Rhetorical question, no need to respond, unless you just can't help yourself)

[greyl]

23. Hey, that's fucked up dude. :)

You're lucky I'm in a good mood because I'm on my way to a DU meetup.

[John Q. Citizen]

26. I knew you couldn't resist;

Have a good time at the meetup, you've gone and made me jealous. Rats!

[bushatbooker]

21. Look at the analysis then

the analysis shows the 93 photo to be an ordnance blast or a fake.

Stop character assassinating and focus on the evidence.

[greyl]

24. Do you like sushi? nt

[John Q. Citizen]

25. There appears to be no character to assassinate, only a faceless

entity who apparently lacks the courage of their convictions, whatever those may be.

Maybe it's a real photo of a fake ordinance blast? Or a fake photo of a real ordinance blast?

I can't say.

And I don't care. If the researcher doesn't care enough to back up their own research, why should I? Or why should you, for that matter?

[bushatbooker]

29. He does back up his research

did you not read the links I posted???

[Jazz2006]

37. No you, er, he, doesn't.

The killtown site is a total crackpot website with zero credibility.

[bushatbooker]

41. Yeah, I keep hearing that

but no one seems to offer any substance to those claims. Just a lot of ad hominem attacks. Characteristic of a neocon.

[Jazz2006]

43. Lol. I'm sure you hear it a LOT.

but it isn't neocons saying it.

:rofl:

[bushatbooker]

45. Liberals are saying it too?

Liberals are spewing ad hominem attacks like neocons? How comforting.

[Jazz2006]

60. Liberals are smarter than neocons, thus it was Libs who said it first

Because his site is full of crap.

Nothing ad hominem about that. It's simply the truth.

[mirandapriestly]

54. "Character assassination", that is what I noticed

There are some reasonable people on this thread dissing KT, but when the UNreasonable dis him, then I think he is probably getting close to the truth. Also, I think the similarities with the ordnance blast is remarkable.

[bushatbooker]

68. That's what I'm thinking too

Look at all the vicious attacks on him. I've asked what he did, or why they hate him and they can't answer that!

[Make7]

73. Well, I miss him. His 'Smoking Guns' usually inspired lengthy debates.

For example...

(dial-up users start at this post): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=65879&mesg_id=67303

(high-speed start here): http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=65879#67303

Good times.... he even insulted my intelligence in that exchange.... admittedly I did provoke him by having a different viewpoint....

- Make7

[Jazz2006]

84. Oh my ~ I can see why.

That was sheer entertainment, no question!

[mirandapriestly]

53. Killtown has a good site

http://www.geocities.com/killtown/
He has done a lot of interesting work. I don't blame him for wanting to remain anonymous investigating this stuff, people get fired, threatened, and even killed. ... Also, on his site he defends himself against the article, it should come as no surprise that the article of the piece was exaggerated and so did that red neck lady.
There is something really weird about the Shanksville site....why would a plane "crash", then have pieces of body parts etc... spread around for miles? I agree with killtown that the photo of the event looks much more like the ordnance blast, don't have a conclusion, though...

[bushatbooker]

88. Is that why kill's site is attacked so much here?

This forum is just a bunch of gatekeepers?

[dailykoff]

27. Odd that the FBI agent mentioned the WTC plane shots:

The photo is even more surprising considering the sparsely populated area around the crash site, Mr. Killeen said. He compared "End of Serenity" to a hypothetical photo of the first bombs hitting Pearl Harbor, or a still image of one of the commercial jetliners in mid-collision with the twin towers.

That plane shot was taken under similar circumstances -- amateur with a "new" camera -- and was 100% phony baloney.

[bushatbooker]

31. That red barn photo is of an ordnance blast, period.

Shanksville pic...


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm



Compared to an ordnance blast and plane crash...


"(Right photo is a jet crash.)"
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/07/ordnance-blasts.html



Videos of plane crashes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB92iQ6yf6c

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_2WCNCTCGA


If that Shanksville photo is real, it proves an ordnance blast and proves it came from right over the horizon of that pic and not from the alleged Flight 93 crash scene.



End of story.

[Make7]

32. Which of these pictures are of an ordinance blast?

Picture 1

Picture 2

Don't forget to use this for comparison:



- Make7

[bushatbooker]

35. Pic 1 is definitely a plane crash.

Pic 2 is such awful quality that I can't tell. Could be an ordnance, or small plane crash with little fuel in it.

[bushatbooker]

48. I see that Pic 2 is of a plane crash too, but...

one small twist to that one other than being only about 1/4th the length and not nearly the amount of fuel in it since it was a stunt plane performing at an air show...

On June 1, 1997, at 1321 mountain daylight time, a Canadair F-86E MK.6, N86EX, impacted the ground while performing aerobatics during an air show at Jefferson County Airport, Broomfield, Colorado.

The aircraft was equipped with a smoke generator, and was making smoke during the descent.

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief2.asp?ev_id=20001208X08108&ntsbno=FTW97FA207&akey=1

I'm going to side that that had something to do with it to make the plume shape or color more like an ordnance plume in which I've NEVER seen a plane crash make before.

All commercial, or larger plane crashes I've seen are more consistent with the very dark color of your first plume pic....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb5c2GMq1Ms
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDRhFwp0GA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg1uyRJjqaQ

[Make7]

55. RE: the smoke generator

I'm going to post a link to the page where I found the F-86 crash video so people can see the extent of the smoke being made during the descent.

http://www.videoworldbook.com/airplanecrashes.html

- Make7

[bushatbooker]

86. I tell you what, show me a midsize plane or bigger

without a smoke generator attached to it that shows the same kind of explosion and I'll think you have something.

But regardless, it doesn't really matter because the cloud is still in the wrong spot.

[Jazz2006]

39. Ever notice that the only person who ever links to the killtown site

is killtown?

To quote you, "End of story."

[savemefromdumbya]

49. Tis fake

[mirandapriestly]

56. aye.

[Old and In the Way]

50. I assume that 93's fuel tanks would have ruptured on impact and before it

disappeared into the ground. Not a lot of spread to the fire...only a single narrowly defined source that seems to be choking out. Did all the fuel get burned off in that black cloud? Using the tree as a reference, it doesn't look like the width of the burning area is much more than 30' or so.

[Jazz2006]

71. I suspect you're comparing apples and oranges, but

please provide some info on the plane crash photo that you posted to the right. I.e. date, location and circumstances.

[mirandapriestly]

61. A more balanced view

You can see on Killtown's web site, he defends himself and points out inaccuracies in the article.
(I don't know KT personally, but he is not here to defend himself and I see some serious character assassination, look who is doing the assassinating and think twice before you believe it. Killtown puts a lot of work into his site and sources his articles well. He did an incredible article on an EMT who was also interviewed by the task force which was published in the NYTimes.. The only reason he is banned from here for what I could see is for saying what everyone else thinks about certain posters. They all ganged up on him and pushed him into saying things he shouldn't then BAM, same MO as usual.
I thought the article made the "conspiracy theorists" look bad , then I can see from reading below, that events are exageraated/mischaracterized..

excerpts of what he says, he says he is happy the article is published, btw...

"The title suggests that I'm saying the photo was faked. Even though I personally think it is, I also hold the possibility that it could be authentic and that it is a photograph of an ordnance blast originating closer to her house...
I do not believe Flight 93 was shot down and no where do I mention this theory in any of my blog posts or website, so I'm not sure where Ms. Cleary got this from...
The "they" who visited Val's office were Victor Thorn and Lisa Guliani of WING TV who called Val's work number that they found listed on the internet and made an appointment to meet with her at her office the same day. Lisa told me Val jumped at the chance to be interviewed without hesitation and drove over right away to meet them at her office. I'm not sure if any other 9/11 researchers has visited Val at her office....
Saying "posting satellite maps of her property" kind of makes it sound like I posted them to let the world know where she lives to "pay her a visit" or something sinister like that. This was not my intent. My intent was to show where her house is in relationship with where her camera was pointing and with where the crash scene was. It was simply done to prove my analysis of her photo.
...
I'm also not necessarily accusing her of faking this photo. I'm saying it could be one possible scenario ..
I found Val's home address and business address by doing a simple internet search. Anybody could easily find her addresses on the net then pop them in a map search and find her work or home. It is really no big secret and it's not rocket science...
All this information about her is easily accessible on the internet. The phone number I posted is her work number from her own work website. I found her work website by googling "end of serenity shanksville". I did find her home phone ...
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/08/mcclatchey-photo-blogpost-makes.html

[bushatbooker]

72. Flight 93 photo mystery deepens

It's getting pretty hard to believe that lady wasn't in on it somehow...

http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/08/flight-93-photo-mystery-deepens.html

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jazz2006]

85. Psst.. your slip is showing....

You might want to be a little more subtle to avoid early tombstoning.