why do people shut their brains off completely when it comes to 9/11?

[LSK]

Even on DU, you cant even ask questions without being labeled as a tinfoil nut. What makes people so close minded about it?

How do you deal with being called a nut? I just did in GD : Politics because I only said I dont believe the official story.

[greyl]

1. Your post is very misleading, and possibly flame bait.

Your statement:
"I just did in GD: Politics because I only said I dont believe the official story."
is misleading to an extreme. Most of what you said is missing from your reason. I can only imagine why.

[LSK]

4. the post in question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2763745&mesg_id=2764111

Mine and the response.

[BrokenBeyondRepair]

2. thought, perception, and memory..

canceled out by fear of rejection

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_behavior

[dailykoff]

3. Well, notice also that

when you hit 'em with a couple of facts they "ignore" you (or pretend to, LOL).

[LSK]

5. thats what just happened

[KJF]

6. Black boxes

(1) - (4) The ones at the WTC were allegedly never recovered.

(5) American 77's cockpit voice recorder was allegedly mashed and useless.
You can find a photo of it by downloading the file here:
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/flights/P200018.html
and then going to the American 77 section and clicking on the CVR icon in
the bottom left corner.

(6) The information from the flight data recorder was recently released
subsequent to an FOIA request. Here it is:


(7) United 93's CVR was recovered and the recording was played to relatives
and then at the Moussaoui trial. It hasn't been released publicly, but we do
have a transcript, which you can find here:
http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/prosecution/P200056T.pdf

(8) Information from United 93's FDR was used at the Moussaoui trial, but
has not yet been released - I guess we're waiting for another FOIA request
here.

[Sinti]

7. To some degree you have to understand that even entertaining the thought

creates a fracture in the fairytale world many people live in. They can't believe their government would intentionally do evil things such as this, it's simply too painful. The same goes for assassinations, eugenics, Gulf of Tonkin, you name it, it just rattles them and they close their ears/minds/hearts and call you crazy. It's self defense. I mean this in all sincerity.

OTOH, in some rare cases, there may be disinfo specialists whose job it is to cloud up the situation, both with insults and with obviously ridiculous theories.

My advice would be to let it go. If they can't face the facts, maybe it's best for them not to for now... that does not mean stop asking questions, but have mercy on people who can't deal for whatever reason. :)

[democraticinsurgent]

8. Too big of a paradigm shift

To embrace the belief that "our" government could do something this evil is way too much cognitive dissonance for most people. It requires the painful installation of an "everything you know is wrong" button which most people simply don't want to fool with.

But this is changing. The Scripps-Howard study showing 36% of Americans believe the gov't was in on it or had foreknowledge and let it happen is a wakeup call. Critical mass is building. DU is coming around. Give it time, and don't give up.

[marmar]

9. Cognitive dissonance when it comes to even contemplating the possibility..

I was one of them, and I'm not sure what I believe, but I know there are enough holes in the official story to at the very least warrant a complete re-examination.

[petgoat]

10. I completely bought into the zipper/pancake theory

And when I first saw the squibs, I wrote them off as a
photoshopped hoax.

What got me was the lack of air defense. I'd thought the
four attacks were simultaneous. When I learned we had no
air defense for 90 minutes, my bullshit detector went red.

[Virginia Dare]

11. What got me was..

after claiming that they had no idea this was coming, no warning whatsoever, we were completely blindsided etc, etc, they produced complete biographies along with photographs of all the suspected hijackers within 24 hours. These so-called hijackers were also kind enough to leave a complete trail of papers behind, including a laptop in their rental car at the airport. BULLSHIT!!!

[elias7]

13. my bullshit meter has been alarming non-stop

since the beginning of this thing. I remember * stating that he "knows how the world works" in one of those 2004 debates. Part of that worldview is that the masses can be ruled by fear and nourished by bullshit with little resistance (see Sun-Tzu, Machiavelli, etc.)

[mrgerbik]

26. look at how people in Germany in WW2

were corrupted and systematically made to believe that the Jews were the center of all their woes. Most of the perpetrators of humanities most vicious and brutal crimes went along as thou they were doing "what as right". Not many people questioned their leadership and its aims.

The human mind is infinitely malleable and creative - two things that are very well known to brainwashing techniques.

[CJCRANE]

12. I have a friend

who used to call me a "conspiracy theorist" and that the govt would never do something like that.
However, after pointing out examples of LIHOP and false flag events throughout history to him he now just says
"that's just politics" or "that's what empires do, it's the great game" and usually finishes off with
"what's the point of talking about it, there's nothing we can do".

[Artdyst]

14. Did your friend define "conspiracy theorist"? COULD s/he define it?

What exactly does it mean? Is it someone that sits around and theorizes how the conspiracy to "attack" the WTC and the Pentagon was carried out? If so, that sounds like what the apologists here do. They dominate the 9/11 forum with all kinds of theories about what they say is scientific proof that the WTC didn't collapse due to controlled demolition ("just gravity folks, that's all. move along. LOOK, there's HILLARY").

[CJCRANE]

15. I don't think he can define it.

I've realised that he's a believer/follower in that he likes to take at face value whatever the govt says.

He's also a born-again christian and seems to have an emotional attachment to the "crusade/war on terror" as being a good thing.
Again when I point out that the WOT is a sham (i.e. Bushco doing billion dollar deals with Saudi Arabia and UAE etc) he can't seem to process it and just keeps repeating "that's just politics" (usually we've had a few beers by this time and I can't get any further sense out of him!).

[petgoat]

17. Sounds like he's not real interested in earthly thngs and hopes

Middle East instability will lead to him getting raptured.

Maybe the fact that Dr. Griffin's latest is published by
the Westminster John Knox Press would shake him up a bit.

"Christian Faith and the Truth Behind 9/11: A Call to Reflection and Action" is the third book on the subject by David Ray Griffin, a professor emeritus of theology at Claremont School of Theology who is also a well-published and prominent process theologian.


http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/131/12.0.html

[CJCRANE]

19. Thanks

that book could be useful as my friend does tend to view things through the lens of Christian history and values.

Whilst he isn't particularly strict in his lifestyle he does aspire to the WWJD idea so for him the philosophical/spiritual ideas behind this book would be hard to refute.

[John Q. Citizen]

16. Yeah, I realized a long time ago that American foreign policy was

the same as American domestic policy.

And since American foreign policy allowed our government to engage in black operation coups and manipulation of peoples lives, the mass killing of civilians, when "nessesary" to achieve their goals then the same went for here at home also.

When I saw the 1st plane sticking out of the tower then the second plane hit and the towers fall, I figured right off that the more violently inclined wing of the bush crime family could be involved.

As the evidence mounted of a cover up and dis-information campaign it was easy to see. As Hunter S. Thompson said, "Who benefits."

the cynisism turned to apathy of your friend is the typical response, and the elites know this.

[petgoat]

18. "the cynisism turned to apathy"

One of the JFK researchers (John Judge, maybe) pointed out
that the greatest effect of the JFK assassination was to
let everyone know that anybody, even a President, can be
killed and nothing will be done about it.

[Artdyst]

21. FDR engineered the attack on Pearl Harbor ( a military target). The U.S.

firebombed Japanese CIVILIANS. Furthermore, when the U.S. use the atomic and plutonium bombs on Japanese CIVILIANS (Hiroshima & Nagasaki were not military targets), they KNEW that some American military prisoners would also be incinerated. The U.S. firebombed Dresden in WW2...another NON-military target. Our Government has a very long history of introducing the world to advanced uses of weapons of mass destruction, willingly unleashed on CIVILIAN populations

[salvorhardin]

22. Oh for crying out loud

Roosevelt did not "engineer" the attack on Pearl Harbor. Do you get your knowledge of history from a comic book?

The American military had broken Japanese codes.

Yes. However, what they had broken were diplomatic codes. During the pre-war negotiations with Japan, Roosevelt often knew what the Japanese were prepared to offer and willing to settle for. The messages sent on December 6th made it perfectly clear to Roosevelt that the Japanese government was planning to declare war upon the United States.

So the American government knew an attack on Pearl Harbor was coming.

No. The Japanese government was not in the habit of informing its diplomats of planned military strikes in detail. So while the Americans knew that Japanese diplomats had been instructed to deliver a certain message to the U.S. government at 1 p.m. on December 7 and then destroy their cipher machine and secret documents, and from this deduced that something big was about to happen, they did not know where to expect the initial attack. The Pacific Ocean's a big place, and there were lots of targets available to the Japanese--the Philippines, Dutch East Indies, Singapore, etc. Admiral Stark recognized that the Japanese were planning to attack somewhere, but told his subordinates it would be "against either the Philippines, Thai, or Kra Peninsula or possibly Borneo." As is well known, the American military failed to take advantage of what little warning it did have through bad luck and incompetence.
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mpearlharbor.html

And more here: http://www.ibiblio.org/pha/myths

[Artdyst]

23. What's really heartbreaking is that the U.S. withheld sending a warning

about the impending attacks to the top military commanders in Hawaii until AFTER the attacks had taken place.

Did you ever read the prize-winning book by a Mr. Stinett (sp) that came out about five years ago, and is considered the definitive history of what the U.S. did to provoke the attacks, what FDR did to make sure they weren't stopped.

For those people that consider 9/11 a LIHOP situation, Pearl Harbor was THE Mother of all LIHOP actions.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Artdyst]

25. You obviously haven't studied the subject or else you have an agenda

that I just can't possibly imagine a sincere, objective, open-minded, PROGRESSIVE person would have. A "conspiraloon" maybe? Is that how you describe yourself?

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mirandapriestly]

30. Imagination is what it takes to believe the

Bush administation's version of events.

[AZCat]

32. I disagree.

I think imagination isn't necessary. Gullibility, however, is necessary for one to swallow some of the whoppers the Bush admin tells.

That does not equate to rejecting all elements of the Bush story line though - even a broken clock is right twice a day.

[dailykoff]

33. Yes but if it's wrong and NOT broken it's wrong all the time.

And they're wrong all the time.

[AZCat]

36. No they are not.

That statement is ridiculous (and I think you know that). There have been cases where a Bush adminstration official has told the truth (I'm not going to bother searching for proof of that).

[dailykoff]

37. If you think of any statements that haven't been lies,

let me know. I frankly cannot.

[HuskerDU]

38. Here is one:

(paraphrased) * 'Our enemies never stop thinking of new ways to harm the American people... and neither do we.'

Personally, I don't think he misspoke.

[Artdyst]

34. Saying that a broken clock is right twice a day does not equate to

accepting the dishonest "Official 9/11" version, just because it's true that many people lost their lives on 9/11 and the WTC was destroyed. Gullibility IS necessary for one to swallow the whoppers the Bush admin. tells that puts the finger of blame for 9/11 on a longtime CIA asset that lives in caves in remote parts of Afghanistan, rather than on those on the inside of the U.S. Gov't that are ACTUALLY responsible for the "attacks".

[AZCat]

35. Clearly we disagree about several things.

You think that insiders were responsible for the September 11th attacks, and I think that Al Queda was responsible.

It seems from your post that because I think this, you believe that I am gullible. Is this correct?

[mirandapriestly]

29. Sounds like the names the neocons call liberals/democrats

and since you support the conspiracy put forth by the Bush administration, then....

[mhatrw]

31. We know that "Day of Deceit" is wrong because Phillip Zelikow said so.

Yes, that Phillip Zelikow.

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20000301fabook630/robert-b-stinnett/day-of-deceit-the-truth-about-f-d-r-and-pearl-harbor.html

[savemefromdumbya]

20. The 'thought police' will get you if you question 9/11?

[mirandapriestly]

28. There ARE thought police here

They are blatant in the 911 forum, but in the rest of DU, the posters repeating the mainstream mantras have become really obvious to me. No one wants to stand out and go against the grain.
They are more in the minority now, though.

[greyl]

39. How about thought criminals. Any hot tips on them? nt

[Breeze54]

40. Because anything anybody says gets flamed!

On both sides and in the middle!

I posted a frigging story..that's it..a breaking story about the recent
UK plane/terrorist incident, on another board, at 4 AM!
Right after it happened/was announced.
I didn't make ANY comment, as I didn't have all the "facts" or anything.
I did say that we should "wait and see" what was going on...
It had only been on the wire about an hour...
A longtime friend completely eviscerated me just for posting the breaking story!!
Called me names, pretty much said I was gullible and RW!! WTF? :shrug:
I've "known" that person for almost 3 yrs!
The day before he had blamed bush for AOL's problems. lol
He even laughed when I mentioned that to him.

Look, I believe B* & Co are complete assholes and are up to no good.
My friend knows that but attacked me anyway.
It's just to hot a topic, I guess. To sensitive to many people.
And nobody knows all the facts etc. Even the commission said that...somewhere

Just my 2 cents.

Peace.