Why I think the Vanity Fair article makes MIHOP MORE believeable.

[Pale Blue Dot]

The tape recording recounted in the Vanity Fair article are very compelling, and are a completely plausible account of what happened at NORAD on 9/11. Their failure to react was one of the major questions that I felt needed to be answered.

And after getting a reasonable, plausible answer, I believe in MIHOP more than ever.

One of the arguments that anti-conspirists make is that too many people would have needed to be involved to make MIHOP work. I think that is a good argument, and one I didn't have an answer for.

But what if MIHOP required only 1 or 2 people who knew:

a) A training exercise was planned for that day;

b) The way FAA communications would have worked on that day;

c) The procedures, or lack thereof, NORAD had to deal with such an event?

Someone who had that knowledge could feed it to the hijackers (or a "friendly" government), and very few additional people would have to know.

So the questions for me would be:

1. Who profited most from the events of 9/11;

and 2) Who would have had access to this information?

And on a side note (?), Cheney is implicated in a lie in this same article:

"In his bunker under the White House, Vice President Cheney was not notified about United 93 until 10:02—only one minute before the airliner impacted the ground. Yet it was with dark bravado that the vice president and others in the Bush administration would later recount sober deliberations about the prospect of shooting down United 93. "Very, very tough decision, and the president understood the magnitude of that decision," Bush's then chief of staff, Andrew Card, told ABC News." (http://www.vanityfair.com/features/general/060801fege01)

[hang a left]

1. Most excellent deduction!!

hats off.

[petgoat]

2. Chicanery was implicated in that lie in Newsweek 2/27/06.

"Cheney testified to the 9/11 Commission that he spoke with President Bush before giving an order to shoot down a hijacked civilian airliner that appeared headed toward Washington. (The plane was United Flight 93, which crashed in a Pennsylvania field after a brave revolt by the passengers.) But a source close to the commission, who declined to be identified revealing sensitive information, says that none of the staffers who worked on this aspect of the investigation believed Cheney's version of events.

"A draft of the report conveyed their skepticism. But when top White House officials, including chief of staff Andy Card and the then White House counsel Alberto Gonzales, reviewed the draft, they became extremely agitated. After a prolonged battle, the report was toned down. The factual narrative, closely read, offers no evidence that Cheney sought initial authorization from the president. The point is not a small one. Legally, Cheney was required to get permission from his commander in chief, who was traveling (but reachable) at the time. If the public ever found out that Cheney gave the order on his own, it would have strongly fed the view that he was the real power behind the throne."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11436302/site/newsweek/page/6/

The stealth bomb in this article is the time of 9:35 that they cite for Cheney's move to the White
House bunker. According to the 9CR he didn't get there 'til 9:55.

[Pale Blue Dot]

3. Cheney would have a reason to want confusion about the specific timeline

In fact, a lot of the conspiracy theories, including the one in which Flight 93 got "shot down", would play right into his hands if I'm right about this. The more competent and capable NORAD looks, the more outrageous conspiracy theories have to be "plausible". More people have to be involved with a coverup if NORAD had any chance of doing its job correctly (and was stopped from doing so).

The beauty of the Vanity Fair article is that it narrows the list of suspects considerably (although I'm sure that was not the intent), and makes a MIHOP situation much more plausible.

[Bryan Sacks]

4. but petgoat. . .

Norman Mineta's testimony places Cheney inside the PEOC bunker well before 9:35 am. That has still never been cleared up.

[petgoat]

5. Agreed. My point was not to validate 9:35 as a fact, but to

celebrate as a shot across the bows of the official story Newsweek's assertion of
a time conflicting with the 9CR's.

Once the MSM get to 9:35, can 9:20 be far away?

[Pale Blue Dot]

6. Did you read the Vanity Fair article?

The transcript shows that in reality, NORAD didn't even learn about United 93 until AFTER it had crashed.

I believe that Cheney doesn't mind that we have been unclear on that.

[petgoat]

7. I would beware of the assumption that information released now

is anything but damage control. They will be trying real hard to push the
"incompetence" meme, and a few scapegoats will be found. If NORAD lied for
a week in its initial statements that no planes were launched, and then lied
for two years on its official timelines, why should we believe they didn't
fake a bunch of audio tapes?

I haven't read the VF article yet. Don't have time, and I shouldn't be
here now.

[Pale Blue Dot]

8. Faking the audio tapes would be difficult to the point of absurdity

The answer is simpler: Someone knew that NORAD was running a training exercise, knew that NORAD would never be able to respond adequately, and knew that the FAA would not be able to properly communicate this to anyone. That person also knew that NORAD would try to cover-up it's failures, fueling speculation IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

The conspiracy is simpler: Someone, high up, who would have benefited financially from 9/11, fed information to the terrorists, or a "friendly government".

Who would that have been?

[petgoat]

9. The true issue is the leak of the date for the "match" with the war games,

I agree.

An AIPAC spy would have been highly motivated.
Any PNAC member would have been.

I can't agree that faking the tapes is difficult. How difficult is it to get the
parties involved in front of a couple of laptop-connected microphones and record a
new tape? They've already been shown to have lied, they know it, so they'll lie to
try to get out of the lie. And they know the Inspector General's report is comig.

The bit about faking the tapes is not an affirmative claim or an important one, but
simply an epistemological point about doubt of the veracity of this new evidence.

[Pale Blue Dot]

11. All right, let me ask this

To what purpose would these fake these tapes? The information on them is damning. It makes more sense that they would try to cover up the complete failure of this system, and that "dark actors playing games" would be more than happy with the cover-up.

[petgoat]

16. The damnation is limited if the tape evidence is limited to

incompetence. EVERYBODY in the country already believes the air defence was
incompetent, so there's nothing new there.

They'd rather release incompetence evidence, which allows a few scapegoats to
take the fall, and try to head off the LIHOP and MIHOP evidence that is
accumulating.

[hang a left]

14. I don't think the answer is that simple Finnfann

to go with your theory you would have to ignore way too many coincidences. I think there were many many people who were "in" on it

9-11 Anomalies
Anomalies of the September 11th Attack, Its Run-Up, and Response

Accepting the official story of the 9/11/01 attack requires one to accept a long series of anomalies -- extremely improbable events, amazing coincidences, and contradictions. This page lists many such anomalies. The Top Anomalies page focuses on the more salient ones.
Run-Up to the Attack
Numerous incidents preceding the attack indicate many people had advance knowledge of the attack.

* Put Options
Stock trades bet on the fall in share values for the two airlines whose planes were used in the attack.
o Put options purchases on United Airlines and American Airlines stock rose to six times normal levels in the days preceding the attack.
* Avoidance of the Airlines, the WTC, and the Pentagon
Government officials and executives avoided the targets of the attack.
o Pentagon officials canceled travel plans on September 10th.
o San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown received a warning not to fly on September 10th.
o Scotland Yard prohibited Salman Rushdie from flying on September 11th.
o Two employees of Odigo, the instant messaging service, received e-mail warnings of the attack two hours before the first assault on the WTC.
o Ariel Sharon, Prime Minister of Israel, canceled plans to address Israeli support groups in New York City on September 11th.
o Business executives, some of whom worked in the WTC, were in Nebraska to attend a meeting at Offutt Air Force Base hosted by billionaire Warren Buffett on the morning of September 11th. The same base would be visited later that day by George W. Bush.

Hijacking Scenario
The attack scenario was irrational on the part of the alleged hijackers, and its execution is incomprehensible in light of their behavior. There is little or no credible evidence that Arab hijackers were involved in the September 11th attack, except in the takeover of Flight 93.

* Attack Plan
By flying from remote airports and going far out of their way, the attack planners exposed their plan to almost certain ruin, had the air defense system operated normally.
o The originating airport for Flights 11 and 175 was Boston Logan instead of any of several airports near New York City. This created about 40 minutes of exposure to interception for each flight.
o Flight 77 flew to the Midwest before turning around to return to Washington D.C.. It was airborne an hour and 23 minutes before allegedly attacking the Pentagon. That would provide ample opportunity for interception even if the air defense system were 95% disabled.
o Flight 93 flew to the Midwest before turning around to fly toward Washington D.C. Had it reached the capital, it would have been airborne over an hour and a half. The odds of escaping interception with that plan would be infinitesimal under standard operating procedures.
* Behavior of Villains
The behavior of the alleged hijackers preceding the attack is inconsistent with skill and discipline needed to have a hope of pulling off such an attack.
o Mohammed Atta allegedly barely caught Flight 11, a key flight in the event that he was supposedly planning for years.
o The alleged hijackers partied at topless bars and drank alcohol, despite being portrayed as fundamentalist Muslims, for whom such behavior would be surprising, to say the least.
* Evidence Void
There is no hard evidence that any of the alleged hijackers were on any of the doomed flights, and substantial evidence that some weren't involved.
o No video of any of the 19 hijackers at any of the three originating airports of the four flights has been made public, except for a video allegedly showing hijackers of Flight 77.
o None of the alleged hijackers' names appeared on the airlines' passenger lists.
o At least six of the alleged hijackers have turned up alive since the attack.
o None of the four flight crews radioed Air Traffic Control about hijackings in progress.
o None of the four flight crews punched in the four-digit hijacking code.
o No public evidence indicates that the remains of any of the hijackers was identified at any of the crash sites.
o None of the contents of any of the black boxes have been made public.
o The only 4-1/2 minutes of the phone call from Flight 11 Attendant Betty Ong made public describes a stabbing but does not provide any details indicating that Arab hijackers were on board.
* Phenomenal Success
The success with which hijackers allegedly took over four jets with knives and then piloted the jets to small targets is simply miraculous.
o None of the four flight crews were able to stop the alleged hijackers, in spite of several of the pilots being Vietnam veterans.
o None of the alleged hijackers were good pilots, yet the three buildings were hit with phenomenal precision.

(Lack of) Military Response
Despite normal intercept times of between 10 and 20 minutes for errant domestic flights, the airliners commandeered on 9/11/01 roamed the skies for over an hour without interference.

* Failures to Report
According to NORAD's timeline the FAA reported errant airliners after inexplicable delays.
o The FAA took 18 minutes to report Flight 11's loss of communication and deviation from its flight plan.
o The FAA took 39 minutes to report Flight 77's deviation from its flight plan.
* Failures to Scramble
Interceptors were only scrambled from distant bases after long delays.
o Despite the fact that Flights 11 and 175 were headed for New York City, no interceptors were scrambled from nearby La Guardia, or from Langley, Virginia.
o Despite NORAD's having received formal notification of the first hijacking at 8:38, no interceptors were scrambled from Andrews to protect the nearby Pentagon until after it was hit at 9:37.
* Failures to Intercept
Once in the air, interceptors flew at only small fractions of their top speeds, assuring they would fail to intercept the airliners.
o The two F-15s scrambled from Otis AFB to chase Flight 11 flew at an average of 447 mph, about 23.8% of their top speed of 1875 mph.
o The two F-16s scrambled from Langley to protect the capital flew at an average of 410.5 mph, about 27.4% of their top speed of 1500 mph.
* Failures to Redeploy
Nearby fighters on routine patrol duty were not redeployed to intercept the airliners, nor were fighters that belatedly reached Manhattan sent to defend the capital.
o Two F-15s flying off the coast of Long Island were not redeployed to Manhattan until after the second tower was hit.
o The two F-15s scrambled from Otis AFB to protect Manhattan could have reached the capital in 9.6 minutes once they arrived over New York City. That was still 34 minutes before the Pentagon was hit.

Building Collapses
On 9/11/01 three skyscrapers totally collapsed with fire given as the sole or primary cause. Fires and bombings have never before or since caused steel-frame buildings to collapse.

* Building 7
Building 7 imploded late on 9/11/01. It was not hit by an aircraft.
o Building 7 experienced total collapse, allegedly because of fires, when no steel-frame building before or since has ever collapsed, totally or even partially, due to fires. Building 7 was an over-engineered 47-story steel-frame skyscraper, standing over 350 feet from the nearest of the Twin Towers. Only small fires burned in it on September 11th.
o Building 7 collapsed in a nearly perfectly vertical fall, leaving the buildings only 60 feet on either side virtually unscathed.
o Building 7 collapsed into a remarkably small rubble pile of mostly pulverized remains, when no steel building falling for any reason has ever pulverized itself.
o Building 7 contained a 23-million-dollar emergency command center, but instead of using it for its ostensible purpose, then-Mayor Giuliani evacuated his team to a makeshift command center as soon as the September 11th attack started.
o The emergency command center was destroyed along with the rest of the building, even though it was constructed as a bomb-hardened shelter.
o The remains of Building 7 were rapidly removed and the steel recycled, evidently without any on-site and only extremely limited off-site examination. The rapid disposal operation proceeded despite the fact that no one was believed buried in the rubble, and the tidy rubble pile was not blocking adjacent roads.
o The building's owner, Larry Silverstein, stated on a PBS documentary that he had conferred with the fire department commander on a decision to "pull it." Neither the FEMA nor NIST reports commented on this remark.
* Twin Towers
The Twin Towers exploded into dust and shattered steel, a behavior inconsistent with the known behavior of steel structures outside of explosive demolition.
o The South Tower was struck 17 minutes after the North Tower, and in a less damaging manner, and it had less severe fires, yet it collapsed 29 minutes before the North Tower.
o The South Tower's core structure was largely undamaged by the off-centered jet impact, unlike the North Tower, yet it collapsed sooner.
o The South Tower had much less severe fires than the North Tower, and yet collapsed sooner.
o Smoke from the fires in the South Tower became progressively darker up to the time it collapsed.
o Firefighters reached the crash zone of the South Tower and calmly described controllable fires.
o Both towers started to disintegrate at regions above and below the crash zones in the first seconds of their falls.
o Both towers fell straight down, through themselves, following the path of maximum resistance, a behavior never before observed in spontaneous collapses of any type of vertical structure.
o The collapses of both towers exhibited features never otherwise seen except in controlled demolitions: sudden onset accompanied by thunderous bangs, visible explosions ringing their perimeters, energetic ejections of dust at regular intervals, and copious production of dust.
o Both towers exploded outward and where shredded and pulverized -- a pattern of destruction much more destructive than normal controlled demolitions, yet this result was supposedly produced without the added energy of explosives.

Pentagon Attack
The Pentagon attack defies expectations that this prime terrorist target would have been defended, and that a terrorist would have hit the front side in a simple maneuver, rather than the back side in an extreme precision aerobatic maneuver.

* Wide-Open Target
The Pentagon -- the heart of the military establishment of the world's greatest super-power -- was hit after ample warning without being protected by any defensive action.
o The 9:37 strike was well over an hour after the first signs of a hijacking and 34 minutes after the South Tower strike confirmed that an attack was underway.
o The Pentagon is within 11 miles of Andrews Air Force Base, which apparently had two combat-ready fighter wings on 9/11/01.
o The attack plane was monitored on radar as it approached the capital.
* Unlikely Super-pilot
Alleged Flight 77 pilot Hani Hanjour was not up to the task.
o The spiral dive approach to the Pentagon was such an extreme maneuver that experienced air traffic controllers thought it was military jet. The tree-top final approach skimmed objects in the yard and crashed the plane into the first floor of the building. Experienced pilots have wondered if any human pilot could have executed the maneuver.
o Hani Hanjour was considered incompetent by his flight school instructors, and was denied rental of a single-engine plane.
* Evidence Vacuum
Authorities systematically confiscated or destroyed the evidence.
o Video recordings from adjacent businesses were seized by the FBI shortly after the attack and have never been seen since.
o Only five frames of video have been released by the Pentagon (and then only as an unofficial leak) from all the security cameras that monitor its periphery. Those frames show signs of forgery.
o Investigators were not allowed access to the crash site until well into October.
* More Than Just a Crash
Was the crash engineered?
o A photographed scrap of aircraft debris that has markings similar to an American Airlines 757 corresponds to the forward portion of the starboard (right) side of the plane, yet the scrap was far to the left of the plane's path.
o Eyewitnesses reported the smell of cordite.
o Several eyewitnesses reported that the jetliner exploded before reaching the facade of the Pentagon.
o Portions of the facade where the wing ends and tail of a 757 would have collided show no gouging. Were these parts shredded by explosives before they reached the facade?

Death Toll
The death toll of the attack, though horrific, was much lower than it would have been if not for numerous aspects of target selection and timing.

* Flights
All four flights were unusually empty.
o Flights 11, 175, 77, and 93 were only at 47%, 31%, 28%, and 16% occupancy, respectively.
* World Trade Center
The towers were attacked before most people had arrived, and were hit high enough to allow most people to escape.
o When Flight 11 hit the North Tower at 8:46 AM, the World Trade Center buildings were at less than half the occupancy of a typical mid-day.
o The first tower to be attacked was hit just 15 stories below the top, and trapped people mostly between the 95th and 110th floors.
o The second tower to be attacked was hit only 30 stories below the top, and the plane missed the core, allowing people to evacuate from above the impact zone. The 17 minutes that elapsed since the first hit allowed many people to escape the second tower while the elevators were still working.
* Pentagon
125 people were killed in a building with 20,000 people.
o The portion of the Pentagon that was attacked, the West Block, was in the process of being renovated, and so was at low occupancy.
o No high-level Pentagon officials were killed in the attack.

Coincidences in Service of Incompetence
Many decisions and events in the days and months preceding the attack helped to make the incompetence theory more plausible.

* War Games
Several war game exercises were being conducted on 9/11/01.
o Operation Northern Vigilance redeployed northeast sector air defense resources to northern Canada and Alaska.
o Operations Vigilant Warrior and Vigilant Guardian, which simulated hijackings and involved live radar "injects," may have confused military and civilian personnel monitoring aircraft.
o The National Reconnaissance Office, which monitors satellites and airborne objects, was evacuated while the attack unfolded because it was conducting a plane-into-tower crash drill.
o The Tripod II biowarfare exercise, scheduled for 9/12/01, resulted in the deployment of FEMA to Manhattan before the attack.
* Rules Changes
Procedural changes would limit the ability of pilots and military commanders to respond to hijackings.
o A June 1, 2001 order stripped commanders in the field of autonomy in responding to hijackings.
o The FAA banned firearm possession by commercial pilots two months before the attack.
* Out to Lunch
Top officials were not available until after the attack was over
o President George W. Bush remained at the publicized location of Booker Elementary School until about a half-hour after the news of the attack went on TV worldwide, first reading My Pet Goat to second-graders, and then holding a press conference.
o Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff allegedly remained in a meeting with Senator Max Cleland until nearly the time the Pentagon was hit.
o Brigadier General Montague Winfield had Navy Captain Charles J. Leidig, Jr. -- a rookie -- assume his watch as Deputy Director for Operations for the National Military Command Center (NMCC) at 8:30 am on 9/11/01, and relieved him after the attack was over.

Government Response
Despite the worst failure in history of the military to protect American civilians, and the worst alleged engineering failures in history, there were no consequences for the responsible authorities, and no honest investigations.

* Air Defense Failures
No one was held to account for the numerous unprecedented failures in air defense.
o General Richard Myers, Acting Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on September 11th, was confirmed as Chairman on September 13th in spite of being unable to provide any meaningful answers to questions regarding the air defense failures.
o General Richard Eberhard, commander of NORAD on September 11th, was promoted to head the newly created NORTHCOM.
o NORAD's press release contradicted early statements by high-ranking officials that no interceptors had been scrambled on 9/11/01.
o NORAD's vague timeline raises far more questions than it answers, yet officials have never been required to give a full account.
o The 9/11 Commission advanced a new timeline which contradicts NORAD's earlier timeline and the testimony of military officials to the commission itself.
* Building Collapse Inquiry
The total collapses of WTC 1, 2, and 7 were the three largest engineering failures in history (based on the official story). How were they investigated?
o FEMA was given the sole authority to investigate the collapses even though it is not an investigative agency.
o The investigative team assembled by FEMA consisted of unpaid volunteers.
o The investigators were not allowed access to Ground Zero.
o The investigators were not provided with the blueprints of the buildings.
o FEMA's report states the causes of the collapse "remain unknown at this time". (By the time the report was released the steel had been entirely disposed of.) The fact that Building 7 (supposedly) failed in a way that contradicts 100 years of engineering experience makes it the largest and least understood structural failure in history.
o The 9/11 Commission Report failed to even mention the existence of Building 7.
o The 9/11 Commission Report denied the existence of the Twin Towers' core structures.
o NIST's report on the collapse of the Twin Towers purports to provide a "probable collapse sequence" for each Tower but truncates its timelines before the collapses even begin.

Means, Motive, and Precedent

The preceding list is far from complete. It does not include consideration of facts pertaining to the means, motive, and precedent for the crime. The official account's blaming one organization, while ignoring others with much more to gain and possessing tools and access better suited to the commission of the crime is arguably a vast anomaly. This subject is addressed by 911Review.com:

* Means
* Motive
* Precedent

[mirandapriestly]

18. Faking audio tapes - Avid Technologies

I don't think can be ruled out, unfortunately. There is a company named Avid Technologies, which was bought by EMC; EMC's founder, Richard Eagan, was Dick Cheney's largest campaign contributers Richard Eagan, and was appointed by G.W. Bush as Ambassador to Ireland in his first term. Avid Technologies also is a military contractor(and commercial), INCLUDING the Logan Airport Video which featured our friends Mohammad Atta * Al Omari, for this they used a product named dTective. They "made the picture more clear". Personally, I think they "made the picture", from the neck up anyway. BUT, they also have an audio division called Digidesign which has a vast range of sophisticated audio recording/editing products. They market to musicians, but, as you can see, the products could be used for any audio. Here are a few of their products:

"Digidesign (a division of Avid Technologies, Inc.)
Take your audio into creative new realms of sound with Bruno/Reso - two TDM Plug-Ins for Pro Tools. ...With up to 24 voices possible, you can create a deep layer of adjustable resonant tones. Shaping and modulation parameters can be adjusted with a wide selection of on-screen control knobs. Timbre, amplitude, pitch, stereo spread, low-pass filter, "Q" ...
Silverspike
http://www.sonicspot.com/resources/companydir.html
Silverspike develops real time VST audio plugins, including Reverb.it, which simulates diffuse reverberation of rooms, Silverspike R2, a room simulation and reverberation plug in, and TapeIt 2, a plugin that records audio streams to wave files in real-time. Free downloads include Ruby Tubes, a plug in that simulates tube preamps, and RoomMachine 844, a plug in that simulates room acoustics.

and lots and lots more...

Obviously , these are marketing to musicians, but the company has ability to edit tapes or files such as these and they arrived on CD's in wav files.....
Also MORE COINCIDENCE as one of their employees was a 911 Victim!

More about Avid technologies-

http://www.boston.com/news/packages/sept11/anniversary/...
Company helps 9/11 probe after losing one of its own
By Denise Lavoie, Associated Press

TEWKSBURY, Mass. — Like many businesses, Avid Technology Inc. lost one of its own in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.
Douglas Gowell, the company's director of new business development, was traveling to Los Angeles to promote a new product when Flight 175 slammed into the World Trade Center.

...

The company loaned the FBI digital editing equipment that allowed investigators to enhance and sharpen video images of two of the hijackers taken hours before the attacks.

One of the images showed lead hijacker Mohamed Atta and another one of the hijackers, Abdulaziz Alomari, passing through a security checkpoint at the Portland, Maine, airport at 5:45 a.m. on Sept. 11. Hours later, they were at Logan International Airport in Boston.

In the weeks after the attacks, the airport image of Atta was shown repeatedly on televisions around the world.

Investigators used the enhanced images to retrace the hijackers' steps in Portland. Surveillance cameras filmed the pair at an automated teller machine, a gas station and a http://www.creativepro.com/company/software/3417.html

http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/security/has071010...
MILITARY RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT SUBCOMMITTEE

"Today, there are several uses for VirtualPerimeter and LiveWave's technologies. Just a couple months ago LiveWave was selected by NBC News to put a camera, a broadcast camera system at Ground Zero in New York, our cameras being fed via fiber back to MSNBC and from there it is offered as a pool camera to several other cable networks and broadcast networks.
...We are also working with several municipal police departments, port authority, transit systems, military bases, that have requested pilot programs and other types of implementations to demonstrate the technology and work toward a large full-scale implementations."
... VirtualPerimeter"

My note:Also, (Raytheon is in Tewksbury) coincidences, coincidences

[Make7]

22. OT: Would that technology allow audio in "911 Eyewitness" to be altered?nt

[petgoat]

25. You can do time shifting such as in 9/11 eyewitness in

video editing programs such as Windows Movie Maker or in the audio program
Audacity (available for free download for Windows, Linux, and OSX here:

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ )


My assumption about faking the tapes would simply be that they would call
in the guys involved, and tell them "guys, your country needs you. We need
to make a new tape."

[Make7]

27. That was not exactly the purpose of my inquiry.

My question is: if Avid/Digidesign products could have been used to fake the NEADS audio that was released, is it possible that their products also could have been used to insert sounds of explosions into the audio portion of '911 Eyewitness'?

- Make7

[petgoat]

28. Could Rick Siegel have inserted the explosive audio?

Of course! You can download free sound effects from the net, including
explosions or thunder.


In Audacity you can tweak your clips any number of ways, changing their
frequency spectra, changing pitch, and applying digitally about any
audio effect you wish.

Of course it's hard for me to believe that anybody would stand in front of
the cameras (and wipe away a tear) while perpetrating such a collosal fraud
for no apparent reason, but certainly it's possible.

When I first saw the squib photos I assumed they were photoshopped hoaxes.

[Make7]

29. Confirming the Evidence

I haven't seen anyone compare the timing of the explosions in '911 Eyewitness' to the audio in any of the other collapse videos available. It would be a pretty convincing case if multiple videos would show these explosions occurred at the same exact time relative to the collapse(s). I'm quite frankly surprised that someone hasn't done this already.

- Make7

[greyl]

24. Holy jesus, you may want to avoid posting conspiracy theories

in regards to technology that you aren't especially knowledgeble about.
"Voices" in the DAW realm, doesn't mean what your post implies.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Here's one version of Cheney's story

At about 9:35 a.m., Vice President Cheney was standing by his desk, looking at the TV in the corner. A Secret Service agent said to him, in a tone that brooked no dissent, "Sir, we have to leave now."The agent grabbed the vice president by the back of his belt and aimed him at the door. "They practice this," says Cheney. "You move. Whether you want to be moved or not, you're going. They don't exactly pick you up and carry you. It's more like they propel you forward." Cheney was unflappable about his hasty exit. As he was swept through the outer office, the vice president reached out and grabbed a magazine, a copy of that week's Economist, off the table. "I'm always carrying something in case I get hung up someplace," Cheney explains. "I've got to have something to read."

Down the hallway, past the empty Oval Office, the vice president was rushed into a tunnel outside a bombproof bunker known as the PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center. About 30 miles away, at Dulles airport, air-traffic controllers were watching agape as a plane raced toward Washington at 500 miles an hour. A controller looking at a radar screen had noticed the blip, heading straight for the White House, about 12 miles out. As ABC's "20/20" later reconstructed the scene, another controller called the Secret Service: "We have unidentified, very fast-moving aircraft inbound toward your vicinity, eight miles west." In the Dulles radar room, the horrified air-traffic controllers counted down the miles. Five, four, three--then the plane began to turn away. The tension ebbed. One of the controllers suggested the blip must be an Air Force fighter, "one of our guys." But the plane kept turning until it had made a full 360-degree circle. "Oh my God," yelled a controller, "he's coming back!" The blip suddenly disappeared.

At Reagan National airport, just across the Potomac River from the capital, an air-traffic controller reported that the Pentagon had been hit. At Dulles, there were audible gasps in the control room. In the relative safety of a tunnel far below the White House, Cheney was told by the Secret Service that a plane had been tracked heading for the White House at high speed. The vice president reached for a phone on the wall and said, "Get me the president." The chief executive was not easy to reach; he was at that moment being hustled on to Air Force One for a quick departure from Sarasota. The president had already been told by his chief of staff, Andrew Card, that "America is under attack."

more...

Newsweek
December 31, 2001 issue
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/newsweek123101.html

So at least according to this report, Cheney was still standing around watching TV (with Condi) at 9:35 AM.

20 minutes to get to the basement seems an awfully long time, expecially since it was an 'emergency'.

Another Top WH Official AWOL for almost 2 hours during the attack. Wow!

[Pale Blue Dot]

12. If my theory is correct,

Cheney doesn't mind, or may even WANT to spread, the conspiracy theory about United 93 being shot down. For that theory to work, NORAD had to be, at bare minimum, competent the day of the attacks. If it was compitent, then that would mean that orders were issued for NORAD to stand down, and that a vast network of conspirators are covering up that order.

I'm saying that no order was issued. The only cover-up was of NORAD's and the FAA's failures that day. Therefore, there does not have to be a VAST conspiracy to make 9/11 happen. One or two guys, with the proper information and the proper connections, could have made it happen.

Cheney wanted to spread the myth of United 93 being shot down because he knew that it would, in essense, create conspiracy theories that were implausible and "kooky". Therefore, MIHOP would be dismissed out of hand by those more "rational".

Cheney is brilliant, and he's evil, and he and his "former" company profited handsomely from the events of 9/11 and subsequent actions. AND he had the knowledge nessecary to make the 9/11 attacks spectacularly successful ALL ON HIS OWN, should he choose to share that knowledge with the "right" people or governments.

[quickesst]

13. Like Petgoat says...

Damage control. Hoping incompetence will suffice in satisfying the need for answers that can only be answered with a full, independent investigation. Will the OCT group welcome an independent investigation if that investigation is opened on the grounds of said incompetence, or would they rather see those responsible for the inaction and "bumbling response" that cost so many their lives exonerated by way of "forget it, it's done and we can't go back". Maybe give them a medal or two to boot. Credibility would have been much higher if I had heard one statement from the OCT that was in favor of an investigation that addresses the "incompetence". Not one since I've been here. Go figure. Thanks.
quickesst

[Woody Box]

15. Cheney and the bunker

The stealth bomb in this article is the time of 9:35 that they cite for Cheney's move to the White House bunker. According to the 9CR he didn't get there 'til 9:55.

Not really. The 9/11 CR says that Cheney was taken out of his office by the Secret Service at 9:36, matching the 9:35 pretty good. But he was not immediately moved to the PEOC. Until 9:55, he stayed in a so-called corridor.

[petgoat]

17. Good point about the 9CR report, but...

20 minutes in the corridor is not credible, and the Newsweek article clearly says:

"Around 9:35 on the morning of 9/11, Cheney was lifted off his feet by the Secret
Service and hustled into the White House bunker."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11436302/site/newsweek/page/6

I maintain that Newsweek knew exactly what it was saying when it wrote that. It's
saying the 9/11 Commission was a lie.

[Grateful for Hope]

19. Good catch, PG!

You know what? I'll bet you are correct.

[Woody Box]

23. I disagree

1) Why is 20 minutes in the corridor not credible?

2) Cheney was "hustled into the White House bunker". I don't think that this axiomatically means that he was taken directly into the PEOC. The text doesn't exclude the possibility that he spent some time in the corridor (which is probably some kind of "bunker", too).

But even if Newsweek is right, this means that Cheney was at his office at 9:25, in contradiction to Mineta's account.

More here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x98254

[Norrin Radd]

20. I got the sense, from listening to the snippets of the tapes, that

some of the voices sound sincere, and others stagey or scripted, so I'm not so certain about it being whole cloth bogus or after-the-fact.

[screembloodymurder]

21. I was thinking the same thing.

It's obvious that someone in the know gave information to the hijackers. The drills were enough of a distraction to slow the initial response. The chain of command to shoot down the planes had been reassigned to the President. We had no defense against this type of attack. Why would the FAA/NORAD/Pentagon ever allow transponders to be shut down from the cockpit? How did the terrorist get that information and why isn't that a matter of national security? Are these people asleep or what? I think the answers lie in FL and TX. I'd really like to interview the flight training personnel at the Pensacola AFB.

[petgoat]

26. Ah, another class for the subpoena list.

I'll add also--personnel at Huffman Aviation.


Sibel Edmonds
FBI agents who want to testify about their anti-terrorist investigations before 9/11
The CIA person who delivered the 8-6 PDB to W and was told "OK, you've covered your ass."
Indira Singh
Cheney's young man who asked "do the orders still stand?"
The pilot and crew of the C-130H that was on both the Pentagon and Shanksville crash scenes
The FAA flight controllers whose audio tape was destroyed
CIA agent Larry Mitchell
Dr. Terry Callaway
experts from Raytheon on remote controlled aircraft
The Pentagon employee who told John Judge there were missiles at the Pentagoon
Secret Service agents who decided to let Bush stay in the classroom in Florida
General Mahmoud Ahmad
The FDNY chiefs who reported structural damage to WTC7
The FDNY personnel in the video who said "Move out, there's a bomb in the building"
The FDNY official who reported explosions to the news media in live TV reports
The engineer who ordered the WTC steel destroyed
The owners of the mob-connected scrap yards that recycled some "stolen" steel
The ASCE investigators who rejected the FDNY claims of WTC7 structural damage
William Rodriguez
Indira Singh's colleague from the FBI who testified to the 9/11 Commission
Condi Rice
George Tenet, Porter Goss, Sen. Bob Graham
Jamie Gorelick
Members of the 9/11 Commission staff who were suspicious of Cheney's account of 9/11
Philip Zelikow
Personnel who collected body parts and DNA samples from the Pentagon
Witnesses to the helicopter flying around the Pentagon just before the attack
Family members of aircraft passengers which family members have never applied for
compensation from the victims compensation fund
Rudy Giuliani
Security personnel at the WTC (about the powerdown)
Scott Forbes
Security Personnel at WTC7
The alarm company at WTC7 (turned the fire alarms to TEST mode early the morning of 9/11)
NIST personnel working on the WTC7 report
Dr. Steven Jones
The authors of the FEMA Appendix C metallurgical analysis of the evaporated steel
Myers, Eberhardt, Rummy
Sen. Mark Dayton
The Able Danger guys
Colleen Rowley
Kenneth Williams
David Schippers
Frasca and Maltbie
Robert Wright
Richard Clarke
Norman Mineta
Tugboat/barge personnel who transferred the steel to Fresh Kills
Fresh Kills personnel who saw the steel
Ground Zero clean up personnel
WTC7 cleanup personnel
Thomas Eagar
Civil Engineers who reported on the Pentagon
Ali Mohammed
Patrick Fitzgerald
John Ashcroft
Willy Brown
The Pentagon officials who were warned not to travel
Peter Lance
Khalid Sheikh Mohammed
Abdul Hakim Murad
Ramzi Yousef
Daniel Pearl's wife
Larry Silverstein
Ted Olson
Andrew Card
Deborah Loewer (situation room)
flight training personnel at the Pensacola AFB
Huffman Aviation personnel

Phone records
blueprints
maintenance records for the aircraft of interest (so if the aircraft parts are ever produced the serial numbers can be checked)

[Sven77]

30. Mineta on Cheney

Cheney was initially taken by the secret service to an underground bunker in the White House called the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.

From there, according to CNN, Cheney directed the US government's response to the unfolding attack.

Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta was in the Presidential Emergency Operating Center with Vice President Cheney as Flight 77 approached Washington, D.C. On May 23, 2003 in front of the 9/11 Commission, Secretary Mineta testified:

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

As the plane in question hit the Pentagon, what else can we conclude but that the 'order' was not to shoot down the aircraft and to let it find its target.

Mineta stated that he did not know what the 'order' was because he wasn't there when it was made.