Time for another informal 9-11 poll!

[readmoreoften]

Just takin' the pulse of DU! Let's keep it simple!

[readmoreoften]

1. kick for curiosity's sake /nt

[texastoast]

2. I was LIHOP

Until I found out the ATT/NSA Bush spy thing was February 2001. Not a chance.

[DireStrike]

3. Lihop until I heard about the war games

Nail in the coffin.

[eridani]

5. IMO, the war games support LIHOP

The Saudis knew the date in advance (though not the operational details), and it's unimaginable that Bandar Bush would not have let the Bushies in on this. by the KISS priniciple, only a few (or even just one person) could have ordered up the air exercises to confuse the attack. It is completely unnecessary for them to have known any of the operational details.

[Roland99]

6. Sibel, Bush's relative running security at WTC, war games, slow response

LIHOP

[hack89]

44. What exactly happened with the wargames that proves its MIHOP? nt

[ocean girl]

4. MIHOP since I realized the towers turned to dust before they fell

[readmoreoften]

7. Wow a whopping 11% of DU believes the official story.

Still that strikes me as a high percentage. OS folks must think Bush is one lucky SOB!

[readmoreoften]

8. kick for more votes /nt

[Clarkie1]

9. What are LIHOP and MIHOP? nt

[NoSheep]

12. See below:

The "powers that be" MIHOP=made it happen on purpose
OR LIHOP=let it happen on purpose

With this in mind, what do you think?

[Clarkie1]

13. Neither.

Although Bush was grossly incompetent, I do not believe he knew specifically that that particular attack was going to take place. So in a sense they "let it happen," but saying they "let in happen on purpose" is going a bit far, in my judgement.

I don't believe FDR let Pearl Harbor "just happen" either, for the record.

I tend to be quite skeptical when it comes to conspiracy theories.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lvx35]

25. See, that's why I want LIHOOTS

Let it happen out of total stupidity. It leaves the door open to possible conspiracy, it just acknowledges that Bush wasn't smart enough to mastermind either LIHOP or MIHOP... ;)

[orleans]

65. Good. then you should be terribly skeptical of the government's

conspiracy theory--it's such a conspiracy theory that the fbi "most wanted" website doesn't have osama down for any attacks on 9/11--or anyone else for that matter

after all--that's what it is...the government's official conspiracy theory--no proof, simply a ton of finger pointing to deflect attention away from themselves--the ultimate in conspiracies

dictionary.com on conspiracy:
"An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act."

hum...seems to me 9/11 wasn't the only thing this government has conspired over
(nsa wiretapping, valerie plame, patriot act, etc etc etc)

[Jara sang]

10. IHOP, it's an international conspiracy.

[Bucky]

21. Sorry, but this sticky comment falls flat, will never make me flip over

[Jara sang]

36. It's real! I'm not just trying to butter you up!

Some people try to use fluffy logic in the IHOP scenarios but I will not waffle on the issue that IHOP had something to do with 9/11.

[Jazz2006]

11. To the dungeon with ye.

10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0

[longship]

15. Here we go.

Incomplete options. Looks like flame bait to me.

:popcorn:

[readmoreoften]

17. No if I wanted to get flamed I'd go to the 9/11 dungeon.

I'm just curious about what percentage of DUers think that. I didn't want to get too specific because I know that 9-11 posts aren't really welcome in GD. People have a million reasons for being MIHOP, LIHOP, or OS.

Sometimes you just like to know if you're alone or if you've got pals.

I know which way I lean. As of yet, I'm undecided. Still reviewing evidence.

[Cobalt-60]

16. First Impression

My old electronic teacher yelled at me once during a test : Don't change the G*d D*mned answer!, your first shot is the best.

My first impression when I heard the news across the radio was that it was staged, the neo cons' burning of the Reich stag.
I've seen a lot of images that would indicate things were as we've been told.
But it just doesn't fit...

[LunaC]

18. Hear ye, hear ye all MIHOP Doubters

I bring to you PNAC 101 - Rise of the Neocons.

If it doesn't piss you off, then you weren't paying attention!

[Nutmegger]

19. Operation Northwoods

2. A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned
to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine
appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces.

a. Incidents to establish a credible attack (not in
chronilogical order):

(1) Start rumors (many). Use clandestine radio.

(2) Land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence"
to stage attack on the base.

(3) Capture Cuban (friendly) sabateurs inside the
base.

(4) Start riots near the entrance to the base (friendly
Cubans).

Appendix to
Enclosure A
7

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Page 11

(5) Blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires.

(6) Burn aircraft on airbase (sabatage).

(7) Lob morter shells from outside of base into base.
Some damage to installations.

(8) Capture assault teams approaching from the sea
of vicinity of Guantanamo City.

(9) Capture militia group which storms the base.

(10) Sabotage ship in harbor; large fires -- napthalene.

(11) Sink ship near harbor entrance. Conduct funerals
for mock-victims (may be lieu of (10)).

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/Northwoods.html

There are some evil, sick people pulling the strings. The NSA is just a scratch on the surface.

[lvx35]

26. Its really interesting to track that the themes in that thinking...

I was reading about Nazi doctors who were involved with US intelligence after WWII, supposedly on some shady stuff, and it all fits the theme of things like operation Northwoords. If MIHOP or LIHOP happened, you could certainly see it as a having been a long time coming!

[Bucky]

20. None of the above. But until I see an "-IHOP" theory that doesn't require

Until I see an "-IHOP" theory that doesn't require the Bush administration to know what the fuck they're doing from one minute to the next, I'm just not going to believe any "triple-bank-shot" theory that expects me to believe that they could see the impact that this event would have and not at least try to pin it on Iraq beforehand instead of their old buddies in the Taliban.

Nope, leopards can't change their spots and Bushies can't accurately predict the outcomes of foreseeable future events. Never have, never will.

[donheld]

22. Without a doubt it was LIHOP

:banghead:

[mirandapriestly]

23. Wow official is only 11%

yet they are about 60% on the 9-11 forum. How can that be? :eyes:

[readmoreoften]

24. I wouldn't mind it if they actually posted real information.

I'd LOVE to find out that my government didn't cause 9-11 and that the big bad terrorists did it. That would make me sleep well at night. I wish that more of the OS folks would stop insulting us and start showing us some proof on why they think the story is correct.

[lvx35]

28. I've seen a lot of problems with MIHOP things I've heard.

I remember people were saying things like "jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel" and pointing to scientific papers, which freaked me out. But then I looked closer and saw these arguments break down, because its like saying wood doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel, which is true in certain conditions, but not generally because nothing burns at a set maximum tempurature, that's how house fires reach 1000 degrees and blacksmiths used wood fires in forges to soften steel in the old days.

anyway, that's how I sleep. But I still don't know :(

[BuddyYoung]

37. Must be very unsettling. Have you considered maybe doing a bit more

research about all those "MIHOP things" you've HEARD...most of which you probably heard from people that are no more informed than you are.

Hope this isn't too jolting for you, because I sure didn't mean to rouse you from your state of sleep. Doggone people that insist Bush doesn't always tell the truth. The noive ovem!

[wildbilln864]

51. Well, I disagree...

I don't think these arguments broke down at all. The fireballs in the WTCs only lasted a short time. And in one case the fuel was mostly burned in a fireball outside of the WTC. In the old days, blackssmiths had to constantly apply air through a bellows or some other way to get the fire hot enough. And mostly they used coal I think. And it took a long time for the fire's temps to rise high enough for the smith's purpose. The WTC fires didn't burn long enough to weaken much steel IMO, and that doesn't account for the buildings giving way below the damage where the structure was still completely intact.

[mirandapriestly]

54. The fires in the wtc

were not hot enough to soften steel.

[Make7]

55. How hot were they? And at what temperature does steel 'soften'? ( n/t )

[mirandapriestly]

53. Occasionally, I attempt to engage them in

conversation or be "nice" and they do not respond or they hurl an insult in return. It is obvious that they have an agenda and that discovery or exchange of ideas is not the goal. Notice how they never defend any of the OCT positions. Can you imagine how ridiculous their threads on "the hijackers" and how they "fooled" Norad would be?

[rman]

27. Silent majority, vocal minority -

We can only guess how this reflects on the bigger (national) picture. Actually we can do more than guess, but i'll leave it at that.

[readmoreoften]

29. LOCK THIS POLL PLEASE

I'd rather this poll be locked than corrupted by all the trolls that fester in the 9-11 dungeon.

[Make7]

43. corrupted?

Jul-25-06 04:35 PM  -  Poll starts (link)
Jul-25-06 08:49 PM  -  OFFICIAL STORY = 11% of votes  (link)
Jul-26-06 02:50 AM  -  OFFICIAL STORY = 11% of votes  (link)
Jul-26-06 03:55 AM  -  Poll moved to September 11 forum  (link)
Jul-26-06 04:07 AM  -  OFFICIAL STORY = 13% of votes  (link)
Jul-26-06 04:54 PM  -  OFFICIAL STORY = 11% of votes  (link)

-Make7

[Make7]

59. OFFICIAL STORY now at 13% - same as it was when the poll was moved here.

But there's an additional 30 votes added while in the dungeon. Hmmmm...

- Make7

[mirandapriestly]

60. it was 11% before coming here. nt

[Make7]

61. See post #30 - Final analysis: Official Story 13%

post #30

Do you believe that the poll result for the OFFICIAL STORY went from 11% to 13% in twelve minutes at 4:00am in the September 11 forum?

Even if you do, 13% is the 'final result' as declared by the person that started the poll. Exactly the same as what it was at the time of my last post - more than a day and a half after the poll was moved here. (It was in GD for about half a day.)

Do you fail to see my point? Or do you actually feel a 2% difference is significant in a poll with less than 150 votes?

- Make7

[Make7]

69. This is unbelievable - it's still at 13%. ( n/t )

[Bolo Boffin]

70. I know, my online poll corruptor is buggy as hell.

I keep asking for an update, but you know how government spending goes...

:eyes:

[Make7]

71. I think I'm starting to doubt my faith....

.... in the 60% figure given for the estimate of the OFFICIAL STORY believers populating the September 11 forum.

There has been more than 40 additional votes since the poll was moved here. If the 60% figure was accurate, the OFFICIAL STORY should now be around 26% - approximately double what it is. That's weird.

Why isn't this working out right? Oh, I'll bet my calculator isn't functioning properly. I am using the one from Microsoft - their shit is always buggy. Wait... hold on... found the problem - I had the checkmark for the FPU processing algorithm in the OCT box instead of the CT box. Oops. Let me just redo these calculations now that it's working....

- Make7

[readmoreoften]

30. Final analysis:

Official Story 13%
MIHOP 60%
LIHOP 26

86% of DUers think that Bush & Co were involved in the mass murder of 3000 Americans.

[Make7]

32. 86% of the approximately 100 DU members that responded think that. ( n/t )

[readmoreoften]

33. Yeah, I'd get a larger sample, but the mods won't let me.

I'm not entirely sure that the morning crew is more OS or MIHOP or LIHOP. At least the percentages barely budged throughout the poll.

[Make7]

34. I think it is more indicative of the views of the people interested enough

... to respond rather than an overall indicator of the DU membership in general. Considering the number of votes for a poll that was in GD, the interest level may not be very high for the average DU member.

-Make7

[Twist_U_Up]

45. but then again................

86% just may be the right percentage .

just sayin

[Make7]

47. I think the odds of that are astonishingly slim. ( n/t )

[BuddyYoung]

48. It's probably substantially higher. Now, back to more irrelevancies.

nt

[Make7]

50. I'd rather not discuss your posts. ( n/t )

[mirandapriestly]

56. That is untrue

If anything, those who believe "inside job" don't make themselves known. Every single time 9-11 comes up, those who push the Bush administration's lie make themselves very known again and again. They try to create the illusion of a majority view by screaming loud and often. Every time there is a 9-11 thread that sneaks into GD, it gets a large number of rec's and an overwhelming majority of support with a tiny, but vocal minority hurling ridicule and saying "not you kooks again!" . The "moderators" hide the thread from view and put it on the only place on DU where abusive posters are not only allowed but they seem to be encouraged. The opposite of what you are saying is true. You can not provide ANY support for your statement.

[Make7]

58. Those threads also only get responses and rec's from interested posters.

If anything, those who believe "inside job" don't make themselves known.

See quote below.

Every time there is a 9-11 thread that sneaks into GD, it gets a large number of rec's and an overwhelming majority of support with a tiny, but vocal minority hurling ridicule and saying "not you kooks again!" .

I see, the MIHOP/LIHOP crowd doesn't want to make itself known by voting in this anonymous poll, but they overwhelmingly support and recommend threads about 9-11 in GD by presumably posting responses in those threads and voting to recommend them.

The opposite of what you are saying is true. You can not provide ANY support for your statement.

My point isn't which contingent of posters interested in 9-11 are more likely to vote in polls or respond to threads. It is simply that far more people in GD do not respond at all to 9-11 polls or threads, therefore a poll that gets around one hundred votes while in GD for that amount of time is not indicative of the actual views of all DU members in general. It only reflects the views of those that bothered to respond.

GD averages approximately 4,000 posts in the amount of time the poll was left there, I think that would suggest that there were probably more posters that chose to ignore the poll than posters who bothered to vote. If the poll only reflects the votes of those interested enough to respond, it isn't an accurate indicator of what all DU members think on the subject. A truly random sample would be required to be able to claim that the results represent all of DU.

Or to look at it another way, a non-random sample of about one hundred DU members out of thousands (tens of thousands?) of active members is not going to accurately reflect what the majority of posters think on the subject.
________

As a side note, I'll add the fact that having only three options does not reflect a reasonable range of views that have been expressed in this very forum concerning this topic.
________

-Make7

"Being in the minority never proves that you're wrong." - SENATOR WAYNE MORSE

[Make7]

68. Does this reflect the overall view of DU?

This poll: Do you have current dental care?, received about 40% more votes than the 9-11 poll did for the same amount of time while it was in GD.

Does this mean that the average DU member cares 40% more about dental care than about 9/11? Frankly I find that disappointing, but you can't argue with the poll results - the DU membership has spoken.

- Make7

[BuddyYoung]

38. Most DUers probably think that Bush & Co. ARE involved in the on-going

murder of innocent civilians in Iraq and soon in other countries in the Middle East. What's the big whoop?

[KJF]

31. I picked LIHOP

It seems the most likely to me at the moment, because I don't really buy pods, missiles and plane swapping, but the official story is just full of holes and it looks like the CIA (and the NSA) knew more about the hijackers than they are letting on.

What I'd really like to see is the transcripts of the calls from the hijackers in the US that the NSA intercepted before 9/11. AFAIK not even the 9/11 Commission saw them.

[sabbat hunter]

35. need a 4th option

happened thru incompetance. that is part of the true cover up. (along with how poisonous the air was after the collapse.

[salvorhardin]

39. Mssing option: Other. n/t

[greyl]

40. How do you think

right-wing trolls with multiple accounts would vote in your poorly designed poll?

A) They'd vote multiple times in an attempt to make DU look bad.
B) They'd vote multiple times in an attempt to make DU look good.

[BuddyYoung]

41. Vote multiple times to increase the # of votes in support of the OCT?

nt

[quickesst]

42. Here's my take...

http:www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/spa/lowres/121jpg

Oh well, if you get a red x it's a cartoon of cheney holdiing a bush puppet. The punchline? Bush and Cheney testify before the 9/11 commission. Here is the page where the cartoon originated. I think Bush knew something was going on, but didn't want to know exactly what. One reason I believe he had to fly around the country for a day and a half before confronting the public. Just an opinion. Thanks.
quickesst

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/directory/d/dick_cheney.asp

[mirandapriestly]

57. hmm, yeah, maybe he was being "briefed"

on the flight as to what to say...

[Twist_U_Up]

46. multiple accounts are a no-no

everyone knows that, and if they arent aware of the DU rules, the mods will notify them.

[BuddyYoung]

49. Besides, this is DU, not GOPU. RWers wouldn't have any reason to come

here in some kind of disguised way. Why would anyone think THAT? And another thing. The alleged "multiple accounts" people are the ones here that are open-minded, tolerant, not interested in having the search for truth deterred by minor details or anything else that would distract from a discussion of the implications arising from the fast-spreading awareness that 911 was an inside job.

Surely, you've noticed these things. Right?

[greyl]

52. Do you really think all people here are that gullible? nt

[BuddyYoung]

63. I really think most people here are pretty insightful about efforts to

suppress the truth about 911. I really think most people here resent those efforts and wish the Truth Suppressors would leave.

[rman]

62. Near impossible to enforce, though

Not always possible to detect even. Ie if the IP number is dynamic.
Even if it's static one can argue the accounts are for multiple individuals in the same household.

[mirandapriestly]

66. Yes, I noticed

a certain long time poster has yet another reincarnation...

[Make7]

67. Are you talking about....

... BuddyYoung? Who do you think he really is?

- Make7

[DemInDistress]

64. after hearing the massive synchronized explosions prior to

the collapse of all 3 WTC buildings heard on the video "Eyewitness to 911" I voted MIHOP. Absolutely no doubts
in my mind the 3 buildings were wired with explosives (disappearing steel/China) and all the was needed for cover of those explosions were let's say,"2 commercial jets crashing into the Twin Towers" it really amazes me
to know WT7 collapsed without even being hit. WOW !!!

911 WAS AN INSIDE JOB... The 21st Century Reichstag Fire. Bravo scumbag Neocons (you got away with MURDER thus far)... But we're closing in on you and you'll be found out.