Was Osama bin Laden a WILLING patsy in the 9/11 attacks?

[BuddyYoung]

It’s a safe bet that if the Bush administration had proof of OBL’s willing participation in 9/11, such proof would have been presented by now, but many people believe that he was a patsy - but was he a willing patsy, with foreknowledge of the planned attacks?

Logic leads to the conclusion that he was not a willing patsy and that he had no advance knowledge of the planned attacks of 9/11.

If he was a willing patsy, surely he would have had at least a clue about when the attacks were to take place even if he hadn’t been told the exact date for them. That so, he would not have put himself in danger of being captured or killed. Yet, he did put himself in danger. In July 2001, he checked into a hospital in Dubai, stayed for more than a week, and was visited by the local CIA Station Chief. On September 10, 2001, he entered a hospital located near the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Would such a person have done anything that would make it easy to track his whereabouts? For these reasons (and others), I don’t believe that Osama was a willing patsy.

Conclusion: there’s no credible evidence that OBL was behind the 9/11 attacks, and common sense tells us that he wasn’t a willing patsy, either. All that being true, how likely is it that he had foreknowledge of the planned attacks? But if he did have foreknowledge, who told him, and why?

[sabbat hunter]

1. since he

organized the attacks he already knew about them.

OBL isnt a stupid man, he did these things delibrately to try and throw off the scent.


remember a little memo "OBL determined to attack within the US"? the same memo * ignored.

i think if * did have any solid absolute proof about OBL being behind the attacks, they wouldnt release it because the signs were all there ahead of time, but our current regime is so incompetant they either ignored them or chose to ignore them.

[mhatrw]

2. Yes. OBL knew that US commentators would pick up on all this.

OBL was very intelligent. He knew that if he cast significant doubt on his guilt that US corporate media would portray him has a sympathetic character who was wrongly accused.

Makes perfect sense to me! :silly:

[sabbat hunter]

3. huh?

what are you talking about?

[mhatrw]

4. Is there an echo in here?

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BuddyYoung]

6. jmb597: what's your take on Bush saying "I don't think about him (OBL)

anymore"?

[jmb597]

7. My take is

that he doesn't give a sh_t because he didn't do it and because he is dead.

[BuddyYoung]

8. jmb597: sorry, I don't think I made it clear what I'm getting at.

I'm interested to know your analysis of why Bush made the statement about Osama. What do you think motivated Bush? Is it that his advisers told him that OBL had outlived his usefulness and that therefore Bush should downplay Osama and replace him with "al Qaeda" as the source for all evil? THAT certainly has many advantages. First, the public can't demand or expect finality with regards to "al Qaeda". Osama is/was a known figure. As such, the public expected him to be captured or killed. On the other hand, Bush (and his successors) can blame "al Qaeda" for anything and everthing that helps advance certain political/business interests from now til the end of time.

What do you think was the reason(s) why Bush said "I don't think about him anymore"?

[jmb597]

9. OH! sorry...

I actually think that Bush wasn't thinking as he said it. The fact that he was like, "I don't think about him anymore", or whatever it was that he said, didn't sound like a coordinated response. I really think it was a slip up. I mean, they keep coming out with tapes and such, so obviouisly they are still trying to keep him as an prominent enemy. Everyone wants Osama bin Laden caught, so I really do believe this statement hurt him and that it wasn't something they intended. That is only what I think though...what you are saying makes sense as well...

[BuddyYoung]

12. Use of faulty logic renders your conclusion one without merit.

The very reason why the U.S. Gov't had to manufacture evidence against Osama is because it had no real evidence of his involvement.

[BuddyYoung]

13. "OBL isnt a stupid man, he did these things delibrately to try and throw..

off the scent."

Precisely because OBL is a smart man, if he had any involvement in 911 and wanted to "throw off the scent", he would have REMAINED in the hospital on 911. In fact, he would have surely checked INTO the hospital much earlier (and stayed longer) than the night before the 911 attacks. Entering the hospital earlier than 9/10 and remaining longer than three to five hours would strengthen any claims by him that he was innocent and it would be consistent with his previous hospitalization in Dubai, which lasted from July 1 to July 10, 2001.

[mirandapriestly]

10. Bin laden and Bush both want(ed) the same thing

Today, Thom Hartmann on AA was saying that invading Iraq could have been about raising oil prices, not so much getting control of them, as many say. Greg Palast wrote about the 1996 bin laden "Declaration of War" from obl and Osama doesn't talk about the poor and oppressed or a Palestinian state, he talks about preserving the oil wells and getting the "infidels" out of Saudi Arabia (which, amazingly, the U.S. did in, I think 2003, they quietly GAVE IN to a TERRORIST DEMAND and withdrew from Saudi Arabia.) Pretty remarkable that instead of hunting down bin laden they were giving into his demands. Bin laden also wanted Hussein out of Iraq and , previously, Russia out of Afghanistan all for one reason, the same reason that the US has any interest in the region. So, from the point of view of shared interest, maybe he was a willing patsy, maybe it is not so ridiculous.

Palast article on bin Laden:
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=20974

[BuddyYoung]

11. "maybe he was a willing patsy"

MP,

In what respect was OBL a willing patsy? Wouldn't a WILLING patsy admit responsibility or at least admit he was tricked or manipulated into taking the blame for 911?

[mirandapriestly]

15. I thought you meant

he went along with it willingly, because he would ultimately benefit.

[CJCRANE]

14. He was a useful idiot.

I think he probably knew about 9/11 in advance. What he probably didn't realise was that the neocons were deliberately lowering America's defenses and that the funds going to the hijackers came from BFEE allies.

[BuddyYoung]

16. One thing he DIDN'T know in advance & only learned early on 911 was

that whatever role, if any, that he (Osama) had, became inoperative whenever Bush held up the book he was "reading" to the children in the classroom at Booker Elementary so all the world could see it's title. Osama's heart probably did a Cheney whenever he saw that unmistakeable
message from President Bush signaling that he (OBL) is now truly "My Pet SCAPEGoat".

[Bolo Boffin]

17. Osama's heart said Go Fuck Yourself?

Wow, Buddy, that's just...an unusual though random take on the story.

[BuddyYoung]

20. I don't have any idea what he said, but by that time it didn't matter, did

it? Maybe he just said, "well, that's showbiz".

[CJCRANE]

18. Maybe

bin Laden knows he's untouchable. His family is one of the richest in the world
and can probably buy their way out of anything.

And where money doesn't work intimidation usually does (especially when you've got your own private terrorist army). Bin Laden apparently extorted $200 million protection money out of the Saudi govt in return for not attacking them.

[BuddyYoung]

23. Maybe so, but on 911 Bush tweaked his beak BIG Time.

Osama no doubt must have had the same feeling that Marion Berry felt and LHOswald also (whenever he noticed his rifle missing from the place he had put it): "Bitch set me up."

[HornBuckler]

19. Who is Osama?

Is he real? Is he still alive? Does/did the US have any interest in arresting/aprehending him? Or is he a figment and tool of our government?

I don't think OBL is anything but a name to cast blame on that was dug up for 9/11.

my 2 cents

[BuddyYoung]

21. You asked "who is Osama". WHICH Osama? How about "al Qaeda"?

The corporate media seems to want us to believe that "al Qaeda" is a term that means "Muslim extremist". In other words, any Muslim that doesn't support Bushco & Company.

[mirandapriestly]

22. They don't want us to know it means the database

-of mujahedeen recruited by the CIA to fight in Afghanistan against the former Soviet Union.