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Pentagon Analyst spy sells data to AIPAC.. but AIPAC is still lobbying?

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satireV Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:31 AM
Original message
Pentagon Analyst spy sells data to AIPAC.. but AIPAC is still lobbying?
AIPAC isn't barred from lobbying in the US? This seems wrong in so many ways. AIPAC is spying on the USA for a foreign country and is still allowed to even remain in the US?

Why isn't AIPAC banned from even existing and it's executives in jail for spying on the US?

satireV
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orwell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Another Rovian Distraction
The much reported "al Qaeda #3" capture story may have been chaff thrown out by Rove & Co. to obfuscate this story. They both came out yesterday.

Just a thought...
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dave123williams Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't be ridiculous...

You should read up on what AIPAC actually does before labeling the entire organization a spy front...duh.

Here:

http://www.aipac.org/documents/whoweare.html

Yeah; they're pro-Israel. We Jews tend to be that way.
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satireV Donating Member (497 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-05-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Edited on Thu May-05-05 12:52 PM by satireV
Well we now KNOW, that two AIPAC staffers spied on the US. This is a fact. You defend them.

Two staff members at AIPAC are spying on the US and you defend them? Why are you defending AIPAC staffers when they spy on the US? Why is Israel spying on the US? There is no need for Israel to spy on the US through AIPAC staffers.

If two staff members of a Pro Saudi Arabia PAC were caught spying on the US in the exact same manner you would be screaming to jail them and ban the pro Saudi PAC.

satireV
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 02:30 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-06-05 08:38 AM
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 12:47 PM
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. My mother, rest her soul, taught me this piece of wisdom
just because everybody else is jumping off the bridge does not mean that you must also do it.

Your argument is a fallacy ad populum. It boils down to whether or not ethics or morals are considered in the way business is being conducted, or whether it is the right thing to do to spy on America because, well because "everybody else does it" and it is a dog eat dog world. That oughta do it. The latter is simply a pathetic, soul eating cancerous principle because those who adhere to it are letting others do the deciding for them and are not really in control of their own destiny.

The desperation, or manipulation in that statement is the reason for the lack of integrity we see all about us everyday--especially in the attitudes of ignorant Bush voters expressed as "get them before they get us". There is a lax respect for the law and it is getting worse as this slippery slope will lead to corruption and less happiness for all in any country.

Ask Cynthia McKinney about the influence of AIPAC during her failed run.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Cynthia McKinney is antisemitic filth. If AIPAC killed her career,
they dun good. :beer:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 02:10 PM
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Colorado Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I would like to comment on Sabra/Shatilla, since that is
an incident frequently cited to demonize Ariel Sharon and Israel in general.

This terrible thing occured during the Lebanese Civil War, in which the PLO, having been evicted from Lebanon due to their having tried to murder King Hussein, which started a civil war that killed perhaps tens of thousands, played a major role, which included drawing Israel into the fray.

The incident in Jordan is known as "Black September in Jordan."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

When the PLO got to Lebanon they started shooting at Israel, and also launching terrorist attacks - not only from Lebanon but from other locations. The following article will elaborate. This caused Israel to get into the war. They had had a relationship with the Maronite Christians of Lebanon, who alone had spoken up against the murder of Jews throughout the Middle East following the War of 1948.

The PLO was responsible for the deaths of many - some say as many as 100,000 - Christians in Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

This war was truly terrible, involving several nations and the indirect participation of Great Powers, including the Soviets. It ostensibly broke out because of insufficient Muslim representation in the Christian-dominated government of Lebanon, and finally ended only after many years of conflict. The Syrian Army has only now departed, with the UN now calling for the disarming of Hezzbollah, a Shi'a militia, pro-Syrian, anti-Christian and anti-Israeli, thought to be funded and armed by the fundamentalist Shi'a government of Iran.

Setting the stage for Sabra/Shatilla:

In January 1976, the Saika (a Pro-Syrian Palestinian militia) attacked the Christian city of Damour. When the city fell on January 23rd, the inhabitants were subject to rape, mutilation and brutal assassination. The reported casualties amounted to 582 people. As a result of the massacre, most Christians began to see the Palestinian presence as a short-term threat to their survival. Moreover, the Lebanese left (that enjoyed some popularity in the Christian community and especially in the poorest classes) lost most of its legitimacy because of its support for the Palestinian cause.

The fighting eventually spread to most parts of the country, precipitating President Suleiman Franjieh's call for support from Syrian troops in June 1976, to which Syria responded by ending its prior affiliation with the Rejection Front and supporting the Maronites. This technically put Syria in the Israeli camp, as Israel had already begun to supply Maronite forces with arms, tanks, and military advisors in May 1976. (Smith, op. cit., 354.)

Meanwhile, Arafat's Fatah movement joined the war on the side of the National Movement.

In June, 1976, with fighting throughout the country and the Maronites on the verge of defeat, the President called for Syrian intervention. Damour's massacre made Frangieh fear further massacres and he thought that only Syria could save the christians from a slaughter. Syria had its own political and territorial interests in Lebanon, which harbored the fundamentalist anti-Syrian Muslim Brotherhood. Syrian troops subsequently entered Lebanon, occupying Tripoli and the Bekaa Valley, and imposed a ceasefire (Fisk, pp. 78-81) that ultimately failed to stop the conflict.

snip

In 1981, armed forces of the PLO occupied large areas of southern Lebanon and increased attacks on Israel with rockets and artillery while also engaging Lebanese forces and killing civilians. (Fifteen years later, in 1996, the World Lebanese Organization, the World Maronite Union, and human rights groups concerned with the Middle East accused the PLO of genocide in Lebanon, blaming them for the deaths of 100,000 Lebanese civilians).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila_massacre

The attack on the refugee camps at Sabra/Shatilla were, I think, straight up revenge - by the CHRISTIANS - not by the Israelis. The Lebanese Christian leader's murder was the direct cause.

Several hundred Palestinians were murdered. The Israeli army is said to have allowed the Christians access to the camps. The Christians said they were seeking terrorists. The Israeli army said, they didn't know any massacre had been planned. Some allege that Sharon, who wasn't THERE, should have known better than to allow access to the camps. Moreover, the Israeli army, it is alleged, could have stopped the massacre.

The above article elaborates, shows some of the complexity and violence of the overall situation, and also points out that Sharon's responsibility is disputed.

***

I suggest that a careful reading of the referenced articles will show that the events leading up to the Lebanese Civil War, the gruesome nature of the war itself, the MANY massacres and terrible events that occured and which were perpetrated by MANY players on the scene at the time, will show that Sabra/Shatilla should be studied not as a tool with which to demonize Sharon, but as an object lesson in the complexity of modern Middle Eastern politics.





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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Okay, now YOU'RE out of line too.
You guys both should focus on the issue, instead of smearing each other.

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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Hold on a second here.
I'm about as anti-Zionist as can be, despise the rightwing Likud government, and think Ariel Sharon should be in prison for war crimes - but your post to Dave is way off.

He's right in stating that 2 people spying while in AIPAC's employ does not equate to AIPAC having ordered this bit of espionage. Maybe AIPAC did, but we simply don't yet have any information to suggest that.

On the other hand, you are quite correct that AIPAC (and to a greater extent Richard Perle's JINSA) has far too much influence. Juan Cole has done some excellent work on tha subject of pro-Israel (actually, pro-Likud) intimidation tactics.

You're both right to a degree, but you're out of line attacking Dave as you did.

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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. And tough shit for anyone who doesn't like it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 03:51 PM
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undergroundrailroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-07-05 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. Locking per Israeli/Palestinian guidelines.
New threads must be based on a recently-published news item or op-ed piece. They may not be based on editorial cartoons or photographs. Citations and references should include a link to the original source.

You may repost under the above guidelines.

Thank you.

Undergroundrailroad, DU Moderator
Israeli/Palestinian Forum
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