Israel plane in Lebanon space for 6 hours

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/?sid=fcb3b122b2a952ee

Big News Network.com Friday 15th April, 2005 (UPI)

An Israeli surveillance plane violated Lebanese air space for six hours Thursday, the Lebanese army said in a statement.

The plane flew most of the time over south Lebanon between the main port cities of Sidon and Tyre without being confronted by any army or Hezbollah anti-aircraft gunners.

Lebanon always complains to the United Nations about recurring violations by the Israeli air force
more...

Interesting!!!

[CottonBear]

1. What do you thinks this story means?

I'm not familiar w/ current mideast politics.

I think that the US may have some influence.

[Frederik]

17. The Hezbollah

flew a drone over Israel recently, so maybe it's "payback".

[hector459]

2. Syria out, Israel in! It's just that simple.

Israel will get us into another conflict one way or another. You can count on it.

[Behind the Aegis]

10. You got that right!

Because the US is unable to determine our own foreign policy and rely on the mighty Israel to set our agenda! :eyes:

[simcha_6]

39. I doubt that

They've tolerated Lebanon shooting rockets into their territory for years. They remember what it was like in the eighties. I don't think the generals would agree to go into Lebanon. That'd just radicalize Hizb'Allah.

[Jdemsindiana]

51. lets see.....wrong

Israel fly a plane and soon its israel is taking over Israel does not want any part of the Lebanese Quagmire

[petronius]

3. I seems like a bad idea

if true, it gives Syria an excuse to stay. If false, it could be a lie to help create such an excuse...

[underthedome]

4. Hezbollah recently flew a drone over Israel, probably responds to that *nt

nm

[Trajan]

6. Hizbollah did that ? ...

Says who ? .... Dore Gold ? .... The JPost ? ... Richard Perle ? ... Curveball ? ...

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Hezbollah said so!

Interesting that they admit doing it. They say it was in response to Israeli operations, but they admit it...Yes, Hezbollah did that

[Coastie for Truth]

29. Some links

1. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7464397
2. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=124&topic_id=89148
3. http://www.armscontrol.ru/UAV/mirsad1.htm
4. http://www.hesaco.com/ababil/index.htm
5. http://www.armscontrol.ru/UAV/report.htm

[burrowowl]

5. Shows Lebanon

doesn't have enough fire power to shoot it down.

[not systems]

7. Don't worry UN resolutions only apply to states other than Israel...

last time I checked.

[Behind the Aegis]

9. So true!

Especially when the UN is so willing to constantly criticize Israel, but other nations can "slip" under the radar and not even get an "dishonorable" mention for pulling much of the same shit!

On edit: I guess Israel isn't the only country to ignore UN resolutions. Seems Cuba has done the same. As a matter of fact, I am willing to bet further investigation would find that several nations ignore UN resolutions...perhpas, like, oh I don't know...the US!

[not systems]

11. Name one pulling the same...

"shit!".

I guess China in Tibet or Russia in Chechnya might be parallels.

Great company to keep in the rooster of occupiers, a real honor roll.

[Behind the Aegis]

12. You named two!

There are others out there. And, it doesn't matter if they are "great company" or not. The fact still remains that the UN criticizes the behavior of the Israeli government, while other governments go untouched by resolutions. They either need to hold all member nations to the same criteria or examine their own bigoted actions! "All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others."

[Colorado Blue]

16. Please read a little more before you judge. Far, far worse

worse situations have been going on - for decades -

Here's a link regarding this sad situation:

http://www.adl.org/international/Israel-UN-1-introducti...

* Of ten emergency special sessions called by the GA, six have been about Israel. No emergency sessions have been held on the R
wandan genocide, ethnic cleaning in the former Yugoslavia, or the two decades of atrocities in Sudan.

* At the U.N. Commission on Human Rights in Geneva, only Israel has its own agenda item (item 8) dealing with alleged human rights violations. All other countries are dealt with in a separate agenda item (item 9). More than one quarter of the resolutions condemning a state's human rights violations adopted by the Commission over the past 40 years have been directed at Israel.

* A series of anti-Israel resolutions are passed each year by the GA.

* Until recently, Israel was the only member nation consistently denied admission into a regional group. The Arab states continue to prevent Israeli membership in the Asian Regional Group, Israel's natural geopolitical grouping. As a result, Israel sought entry into the Western and Others Group (WEOG) and was granted admission in May 2000 to that regional group in New York, but not in Geneva. Israel's full participation in the U.N., therefore, is still limited and it is restricted from participating in U.N.-Geneva based activities.


The above post doesn't even MENTION the continuous, on-going, long-standing and traditional exploitation of WOMEN and CHILDREN that is endemic to large swathes of this planet.

I will add gays, people of minority religious groups, people of minority ethnic groups, all over the world, who are routinely victimized.

I should think those abuses would concern a liberal, progressive person, and they SHOULD attract some attention in the UN.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Colorado Blue]

20. I believe Antidefamation League is quite highly respected.

This is considered a rational and principled source of news, it is venerable, and necessary due to the endless attacks on Jewish people and on Israelis.

In any case, the deflection of attention from the information presented, to that of the source paper wherein the information appears, is a tactic that is simply not going to work.

If you can challenge the information, please feel free. It is, however, verifiable on any number of OTHER websites, and in any number of other papers. Unfortunately, it is the simple truth.

***

Furthermore, the misuse of women for prostitution is widespread all over the world.

Again, one is singling out one nation for something that is endemic to the planet earth and has been for thousands of years.

This response is a red herring, and strictly beside the point. I agree, it's bad, it SUCKS, but it is something that can be dealt with via legal means, within an enlightened society.

As the article pointed out, Israelis are aware of the situation and are taking steps to correct it.

SO?

WHAT ABOUT THE GENOCIDES? MILLIONS OF PEOPLE DEAD AND DISPLACED, PEOPLE TORTURED AND MURDERED.

Prostitution, lousy as it is, really is not a good comparison, sorry. And again, the situation of prostitutes in one country, which is smaller than Massachusetts and has about 6 million citizens, pales beside the traditional and age-old mistreatment of women across huge regions of this planet, which has a population IN THE BILLIONS.

Please, a little perspective!

***

PS: The occupation was a result of war. It was and is, not the result of a picnic. No peace agreement is in place. Hence, the land has not been returned to Jordan and Egypt.

Yet, the Israeli government has put into motion, plans to withdraw and help create a Palestinian state - which is probably going to turn around and attack.

***

If you need a link to the 6 Day War and the subsequent 1973 Yom Kippur War, along with some maps showing the tactical and strategic difficulties in protecting the country, please let me know. Actually, there are some pretty good ones on Wikipedia if you care to look. Other sites will detail the decades of terror and the murder of Israeli civilians.

An easy, one-sided view of this situation simply will not suffice.

[not systems]

21. Yawn. It was your example of what was ignored.

A little perspective, please...

I think the screaming sentence above make it clear who needs some perspective.

I don't need a heated display of apologetics save it for
someone who cares to hear it.

1000 sex slaves a year times 365 days times maybe 8 tricks a day.

That is around 2920000 tricks.

[Colorado Blue]

24. Also, please read THIS.

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Published: April 17, 2005

When Turkey was massacring Armenians in 1915, the administration of Woodrow Wilson determinedly looked the other way. The U.S. ambassador in Constantinople sent furious cables to Washington, pleading for action against what he called "race murder," but the White House shrugged.

It was, after all, a messy situation, and there was no easy way to stop the killing. The U.S. was desperate to stay out of World War I and reluctant to poison relations with Turkey.

A generation later, American officials said they were too busy fighting a war to worry about Nazi death camps. In May 1943, the U.S. government rejected suggestions that it bomb Auschwitz, saying that aircraft weren't available.

snip

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/17/opinion/17kristof.htm...

Sudan's army and janjaweed militias have spent the last couple of years rampaging in the Darfur region, killing boys and men, gang-raping and then mutilating women, throwing bodies in wells to poison the water and heaving children onto bonfires. Just over a week ago, 350 assailants launched what the U.N. called a "savage" attack on the village of Khor Abeche, "killing, burning and destroying everything in their paths." Once again, there's no good solution. So we've looked away as 300,000 people have been killed in Darfur, with another 10,000 dying every month.

snip

Words fail.

At least, I understand the UN is planning "an investigation."

[not systems]

25. If the UN had been built and nurtured as a institution...

for the last 30 years instead of undermined and weakened
it might have the moral authority and support to do something
about things like Sudan.

However the right has undermined the UN in the name of
US unilateralism and the center left to defend Israel expansion.

So now the UN has atrophied for so long that it makes
little difference.

Currently a campaign grinding it to nothing seems to be succeeding.

Well at least Bolton will not have the UN to blame anymore.

[Colorado Blue]

27. You mean Bolton? nt

[not systems]

28. Yes Bolton.

Not you personally that was not very clear.

Take care.

[Colorado Blue]

22. Please visit this site, it's an Islamic site, which is awesome.

It is the site of a Sunni imam who is a professor, a religious leader in his community, and a highly educated person.

Hopefully his perspective and his wisdom will shine some light. He sees that we are surrounded by dark forces, hatred and anger of really tragic proportions, that grew out of a great evil.

This is not the way it has to be.

I hope you will read what he has to say.

I hope so.

http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/ourmessage.htm

Peace to you and yours.

[not systems]

23. Not sure where your going with that link...

I don't care much about the ins and outs of radical Islam.

I think it is probable that Nazi's had links to some Arab
fascist movements in the middle east but frankly I don't
have much time for Bible, Torah or Koran citations in
a discussion of politics.

Sorry. I don't care much for preachers.

This is one reason I prefer the US not be involved in
this because the people on all sides are not playing
with a full decks.

If you like to hear about more this subject then I can recommend
this program. You might find it interesting.

http://wfmu.org/playlists/DX

FTR-414 Islam Under the Swastika and its Implications for Today

[Colorado Blue]

26. Hi, I'm interested in this particular person - and he's not

alone - because of the importance of the radical Islamists in the situation we're discussing.

This person - the imam who put this site together - is a MODERATE who is talking about peace, acceptance and tolerance.

Also, the history of the Mufti of Jerusalem, whom he mentions, is one which most people are unaware of. As you probably know, he was absolutely key to setting up the situation we're facing today; he actually served with the 3rd Reich, met Hitler, espoused his philosophies. He's notorious in Jewish and Israeli and modern M.E. history, and had an effect on subsequent leaders in the M.E. People can learn from this, from the roots of some of the poison that haunts us today, in the Israeli situation.

Beyond that, I just posted, in LBN, an article about the Sunni/Shiite situation in Iraq, which has flared into open war in places. This is just one of the regions where religious hatred is costing lives and wasting precious time that we need to invest in the business of living, in the arts of peace. Of course, we have our own problems here at home, alas, with the radical Christians!

In the situation that is the topic of this thread, the Hizbollah drone that flew over Israel, a key and radical player is Iran - or more properly - the Shi'a mullahs - who are determined to destroy Israel. They have a lot of money, they buy arms and they are connected to the Hizbollah in Southern Lebanon, among other groups.

I've just (unfortunately) spent the past week researching this topic, the topic of "global antisemitism" - and it's alarming - deeply disturbing. I have reams and reams of links, it's been like staring into hell.

Teachers, clerics, religious leaders and political leaders are spouting the most horrible invective - so when I find a moderate within the Islamic world it's a blessing.

I thank you for the link. I've been studying this also, as you've probably gathered, so I am certainly interested and will listen to it. I hope other people do too.

PS, I personally agree with you, about preachers, so forth. BUT, given the world we live in - I think we need preachers to help bring this situation around to a more moderate and tolerant point of view. The other ones, the extreme, hateful ones, are making life impossible for millions of people.

Again, thank you for the link & the conversation.

[Colorado Blue]

33. Since we've wound up in I/P anyway, which I was sort of

trying to avoid, let me refer you to the several ongoing threads. Two have to do specifically with the UN, one with the "new" antisemitism, and another, mentioning several interesting historical facts, was basically headlined "apartheid" something or other. They're all interesting and have a great deal of posted information.

Also, I'm interested in your comment, about not wanting to involve (religious) people or issues in discussions about politics.

The problem is, in the M.E. especially, religious issues ARE the politics, to a huge extent. It's impossible to discuss the political situation there in any meaningful sense, without being pretty booked on the religious issues. And, they're so complicated and have been going on for so long, that nobody, and that includes Ph.D.'s in religion, can possibly know ALL of it. Still, we can try and be aware of the importance of these issues to the people of the region, and how they play - and are being made to play by demagogues - into the politics. And vice versa.

Also, there are, as Coastie can point out, the REALLY big players over there - the great powers and the global multinationals - especially the oil companies. The British Empire, what's left of it, is still pulling strings. And of course, there is The Great Elephant, aka the US. The Soviet Union used to be very powerful in the region and I'd be extremely surprised if Russia isn't involved behind the scenes.

Oil, and the geopolitical implications, and the sheer chaos factor, are just too great for ANY of the big powers, including the commercial players, to resist messing around with.

Take care.

[simcha_6]

40. What are the links to the good maps and such? n/t

[Colorado Blue]

43. I've posted several links to Wikipedia articles on the various

wars. I'll repost them later - getting too late tonight.

The 6-Day War, the Civil War in Lebanon and the Yom Kippur War are very important to understanding what is happening now, I think. Some of the underlying causes that people might not know about, the covert participation of the USSR, for example, and the eviction of the PLO from Jordan - all are very interesting and have had long range consequences, don't you agree?

The links were in earlier threads but I know how to find them. If you know of others maybe it would be good to post them here, since people seem concerned about this drone, etc.

Later!

[simcha_6]

44. Thanks

And yeah, understanding the past is helpful in understanding the present which, of course, is vital to shaping the future. What sort of things did the USSR do?

[Colorado Blue]

45. They were hoping to extend their influence in the region -

had been since before they were the USSR, in fact.

Even before oil was an issue, control of border regions and trade routes were important, and controlling nomadic groups who flowed in and out of Russian territories. These tribes included Uzbeks, Kirghiz, and Tajiks, among others.

The Turkmen were a particular target, there was warfare between them and the Russians - as well as trade - for Turkmen horses and for their excellent rugs. The Turkmen - tribes including Tekke, Salor, Saryk, Yomud, Chodor, and Ersari - are of course relatives of the Seljuk and Ottoman Turks who went west and established an empire. Their range began on the eastern shores of the Caspian, throughout Afghanistan, into Northeast Iraq, and eastward all the way, some say, into Tibet.

They were horse people, originally who liked to raid all along the Silk Road. The Russians wanted them under control, a goal which they achieved only sporadically and with only partial success. The Russians were also important in the Caucasus, and of course in the border states - five of which are now independent states - the "stans", all the way to China.

Also important: these groups are Islamic, and there is oil in this region. I mention them because these facts are important to us today, and they bear on the situation in Iran and the M.E. proper.

***

After the USSR was established, and oil became important, the usual protection of trade routes and a desire for global power extended itself, and the Middle East became of interest. After WWII, a sort of shadow war emerged, between the USSR and the western Great Powers. This took the form of an arms race in the region, with the Western Powers arming certain states and the USSR, other states - Egypt and Syria being of prime importance to the 6-Day War - and also militias, such as the PLO.

Plus, they also were interested in extending socialist and Communist philosophy into the region.

Heaven knows what all they did. For now, the 6-Day War, since it is still impacting us today.

***

Apparently, they played a key role in starting the 6-Day War, by spreading false information and inflaming an already touchy situation.

Below are links to several good articles about the USSR/Russia and its changing role in the Mideast, the 6-Day War, and one about the 6-Day War, the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis. There are excellent maps appended to the articles about the war(s).

http://countrystudies.us/russia/88.htm
http://countrystudies.us/israel/109.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War


Below is a quote from an interview on NPR:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/transcripts/6day-p4.100302.html

Mike Shuster reports.

MIKE SHUSTER: In 1967, the mood in the Middle East was ugly. Israel, independent since 1948, was surrounded by Arab states dedicated to its eradication. Egypt was ruled by Gamal Abdel Nasser, a firebrand nationalist whose army was the strongest in the Arab Middle East. Syria was governed by the radical Baathist Party, constantly issuing threats to push Israel into the sea.

And the crowded and angry Palestinian refugee camps dating back to the 1948 war had spawned groups in the shadows, including Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, which had launched guerrilla attacks on Israel from Lebanon and Jordan. It was all connected, says Rashid Khalidi, a historian of the Middle East at the University of Chicago.

RASHID KHALIDI: In a sense the Palestinian tail wagged the Syrian dog which wagged the Egyptian dog which dragged the region into a conflict, which Israel initiated but which had several triggers.

SHUSTER: Most historians now agree that although Israel struck first, this pre-emptive strike was defensive in nature.

In the spring of 1967, the Soviet Union misinformed the radical government in Damascus that Israel was planning an invasion of Syria. Syria shared this misinformation with Nasser, who responded with several threatening actions. He closed the Gulf of Aqaba to shipping, cutting off Israel from its primary oil supplies. He told U.N. peacekeepers in the Sinai Peninsula to leave. He then sent scores of tanks and hundreds of troops into the Sinai closer to Israel. The Arab world was delirious with support, says Michael Oren, author of Six Days of War.

More about the wars:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_War.html
Excellent Maps

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/03/herndon/herndon.htm

http://library.thinkquest.org/20331/history/mideast.html
6-Day War, Yom Kippur War and The Oil Crisis

Has Good Maps

[simcha_6]

50. Baku wasn't good enough?

There they had the gem of the Caucasus and the wanted more more oil? Jeez.

[Colorado Blue]

54. I think it was also, spreading the glories of Communism.

And, they wanted to sell weapons, like the rest of us.

A totalitarian state has to make a living, you know:) So they spread war and revolution. Remember all the wars in Africa?

I'd forgotten that they supported the PLO, among other things.

Now they're so broke they're selling rides in their most fantastic jets. Pretty soon we're going to be selling rides on jets too.

But fear not, Garry Kasparov has now entered politics:)

[simcha_6]

55. Who is he?

He's not the chess player that beat Deep Blue, is he?

[Colorado Blue]

56. The same. His first experience in realpolitik was the other

day, when a fan asked him to sign a chessboard, then whacked him upside the head with it a couple of times.

Apparently the fan is disgusted that Kasparov is quitting chess for politics:)

He wants to work against Putin, whom he says is a dictator.

[simcha_6]

57. A CHESSBOARD?!

That's harsh.

[Colorado Blue]

58. Hah. A chessboard is harsh?

He should try I/P:)

[Coastie for Truth]

32. That same kind of argument was made by some pro-Palestinian groups

in San Francisco, CA several years ago. These groups charged the ADL with "violating their civil rights" and "cooperating with the SFPD's old "Red Squad" and defamation. The ADL won the law suit.


No, I don't have a link - but it is on SFGate if you want to rebut me.

[not systems]

35. I don't know what argument you...

think I was making.

I don't think the ADL is unbiased source about Israel.

So what?

I do like your double red baiting and "pro-Palestinian"
baiting response very nice smear tactic.

My post has been removed so I'm sure that imaginations
can run wild.

I originally posted in LBN and was well with in bounds
there where the post lasted about 24 hours.

I don't post the I/P forum as I find it a stifling
and subject to high levels of bias and group think.

See you later.

[Coastie for Truth]

36. Criticism of ADL frequently tends to be on web sites

that lump ADL, SCLC, NAACP, ACLU, AI, etc. together. (ADL, SCLC, NAACP, PFAW, ACLU, AI, are all groups that I fund)

Thanks for your complement:

"I do like your double red baiting and "pro-Palestinian"
baiting response very nice smear tactic."

[not systems]

37. I fund...

ACLU and AI so we have that in common.

I don't doubt the ADL plays a good role advocating for
Jewish Americans, I just don't consider them objective
about Israel.

[Coastie for Truth]

38. Perhaps a little bit of history

The ADL was founded to combat blatant anti-Jewish conduct - and expanded to combat other forms of racism (initially anti-African American and anti-Latino, and more recently anti-Arab American, yes anti-Arab American). However, the formation of the ADL was in response to the lynching of Leo Frank in Georgia in 1915.

1) http://www.cviog.uga.edu/Projects/gainfo/leofrank.htm
2) http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/not_guilty/frank/13.html?sect=14
3) http://leofranklynchers.com/leofranklynchers.html
4) http://www.ourgeorgiahistory.com/chronpop/584
5) http://www.myrtlebeachonline.com/mld/charlotte/entertainment/books/6983586.htm
6) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Frank
7) http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/frank.html
8) http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-906&pid=s-70

The Anti-Defamation League was founded in response to the whole Leo Frank situation.

You stepped on a hornet's nest - and shilly-shallying about "Red Baiting" and "pro-Palestinian" baiting as a "very nice smear tactic." is evasive.

As one who has been in a southern jail in the 1960's for civil rights work -- and as one who has suffered discrimination in the employment process -- I am unimpressed.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coastie for Truth]

42. Thank you DOCTOR

"I "stepped on a hornet's nest" or have just found another psycho."

Are you one of these fancy Harvard MD's at an HCA hospital who diagnoses over the tv and internet like Bill Frist? You know there are several regular appenders who would take umbrage - but I am a nice guy.

[Colorado Blue]

49. What's objective? This story has so many angles it's

impossible even to see it all. There IS no black, no white - it's like one of those dazzling mirror balls, brilliant with refracted light and constantly moving.

Having said that, I posted some links to the actual HISTORY of this situation below, beginning with the 6-Day war, including the Civil War in Lebanon and ending with an article on Black September in Jordan.

Hopefully, when a person reads some history, the present will make more sense.

Understanding the roles of the USSR, Iran and radical Islam, as well as the PLO and its constant attacks on Israel, might make the present situation more understandable.

It is also wise to remember, that many consider Jordan itself to be a Palestinian state. Arafat tried to kill the king and take it over. The people are the same. They just happen to live east of the Jordan River.

Jordan was originally part of the region given over to the Jewish people for their homeland. The Kingdom of Jordan was created by the British out of the eastern portion of the Palestine Mandate, as payment of a debt of honor, to the Hashemites.

What Israel finally wound up with, is far less than the original. Many still want even that.

[Jdemsindiana]

52. The ADL

Simply reflects the opinions about of the vast majority of of Jewish Americans and frankly I don't think your "objective" enough about the middle east

[Coastie for Truth]

30. The UN is like the GOP

Ethics rules apply to Jim Wright and Bill Clinton -- but not DeLay.

[lovuian]

13. Israel was shook up by the Drone flown over Israel!!!

Israel was looking where it came from... It means their border is weak if the drone got through!!!

Thats what this means!!!

Its Israel Defense that took a surprise hit when the drone made it through!!!

[daleo]

14. Will we have a batch of "drones of death" stories

Like Saddam's balsa wood and elastic band concoctions? Perhaps Israel will re-occupy southern Lebanon now that Syria has left. I ams not sure what the strategic grounds would be, but the phrase "power abhors a vacuum" is always relevant.

[MGKrebs]

15. More "info" from Debka.

I know, I know. Even if it's fiction, it's interesting!

"For unknown reasons, the Patriot anti-missile missile battery normally posted in western Galilee to monitor Israel-Lebanese border airspace had been removed on that particular day."

"Did the Iranian Revolutionary Guards deployed with Hizballah in south Lebanon, who launched the unmanned aerial vehicle, strike lucky? Or did they know that the Patriot had been removed?"

http://debka.com/article.php?aid=939

Basically saying that the drone is Iranian.

[leesa]

18. Again? They are trying as hard as they can to start a war

That is an act of war and Israel and the US do it repeatedly.

[Coastie for Truth]

31. So,

how do you distinguish it from closing the Straits of Tiran in 1967. That was an act of war.

Remember - a "Coastie" is a US Federal Maritime COP - and like all Navy, Coast Guard, and NOAA Commissioned Corps people - we are trained in the International Law of the Sea.

[Colorado Blue]

34. Probably, folks have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

Suggestions to link up to the history of the 6 Day War, etc., are generally met with yawns and silence.

[Jdemsindiana]

53. Israel has only done it once

In the Sinai Campagign way back in the 50's that was a big mistake but Israel learned from it I hope

[Colorado Blue]

46. Maps and Articles about USSR, 6-Day War, etc.

Reposting maps & articles:

Below are links to several good articles about the USSR/Russia and its changing role in the Mideast, the 6-Day War, and one about the 6-Day War, the Yom Kippur War and the oil crisis. There are excellent maps appended to the articles about the war(s).

http://countrystudies.us/russia/88.htm
http://countrystudies.us/israel/109.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War


Below is a quote from an interview on NPR:

http://www.npr.org/news/specials/mideast/history/transc...

Mike Shuster reports.

MIKE SHUSTER: In 1967, the mood in the Middle East was ugly. Israel, independent since 1948, was surrounded by Arab states dedicated to its eradication. Egypt was ruled by Gamal Abdel Nasser, a firebrand nationalist whose army was the strongest in the Arab Middle East. Syria was governed by the radical Baathist Party, constantly issuing threats to push Israel into the sea.

And the crowded and angry Palestinian refugee camps dating back to the 1948 war had spawned groups in the shadows, including Yasser Arafat's Fatah movement, which had launched guerrilla attacks on Israel from Lebanon and Jordan. It was all connected, says Rashid Khalidi, a historian of the Middle East at the University of Chicago.

RASHID KHALIDI: In a sense the Palestinian tail wagged the Syrian dog which wagged the Egyptian dog which dragged the region into a conflict, which Israel initiated but which had several triggers.

SHUSTER: Most historians now agree that although Israel struck first, this pre-emptive strike was defensive in nature.

In the spring of 1967, the Soviet Union misinformed the radical government in Damascus that Israel was planning an invasion of Syria. Syria shared this misinformation with Nasser, who responded with several threatening actions. He closed the Gulf of Aqaba to shipping, cutting off Israel from its primary oil supplies. He told U.N. peacekeepers in the Sinai Peninsula to leave. He then sent scores of tanks and hundreds of troops into the Sinai closer to Israel. The Arab world was delirious with support, says Michael Oren, author of Six Days of War.

More about the wars:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/67_...
Excellent Maps

http://www.ccds.charlotte.nc.us/History/MidEast/03/hern...

http://library.thinkquest.org/20331/history/mideast.htm...
6-Day War, Yom Kippur War and The Oil Crisis

Has Good Maps

[Colorado Blue]

47. Links to Lebanese Civil War + Information about Hizbollah

The first article tells about this very complicated war, which is how Syria got there in the first place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_Civil_War

"The Lebanese Civil War (1975-1990) had its origin in the conflicts and political compromises of Lebanon's colonial period and was exacerbated by the nation's changing demographic trends, Christian and Muslim inter-religious strife, and proximity to Syria. After the Civil War itself ended in 1976 civil strife continued, with the focus of the fighting primarily in south Lebanon, occupied first by the Palestine Liberation Organization, and then by Israel. Events and political movements that contributed to Lebanon's violent implosion include, among others, the departure of European colonial powers, the emergence of Arab Nationalism, Arab Socialism in the context of the Cold War, the Arab-Israeli Conflict, Ba'athism, the Iranian Revolution, Palestinian terrorism, Black September in Jordan, Islamic fundamentalism, and the Iran-Iraq War."

***

Here are articles about Hizbollah. This militant group is linked to the Shi'a government of Iran. They fou. They are dedicated to the idea of destroying Israel, which is why the drone that flew over Israeli airspace was upsetting.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/10/15/wmid15.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/10/15/ixworld.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizbollah

"The organization was conceived in 1982 as a guerrilla group, started by Lebanese clerics and financed by Iran, to oppose the 1982 Israeli invasion and subsequent occupation of southern Lebanon. Some critics argue that the real reason it was set up by Iran was to spread the Iranian Islamic revolution into Lebanon and throughout the Arab world. It maintains an active fighting force, or militia, known as the Islamic Resistance. Since the May 2000 Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon, Hezbollah has continued fighting the Israeli Defense Forces around the disputed, Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms area. Although the United Nations regards Shebaa Farms as Syrian territory, Hezbollah considers the area a part of Lebanon. Syrian officals have orally declared that Shebaa Farms are part of Lebanon. The Shebaa farms were taken by Israel from Syria during the 1967 war. Syria was asked to notify the UN that it considered the Shebaa farms to be part of Lebanon but no official statement was ever sent. This has led some specialists to think that Hezbollah’s attempt to recapture the area was a Syrian-backed pretext to keep Israel under military pressure.

In addition to its military wing, Hezbollah maintains a civilian arm, which runs hospitals, schools, orphanages and a television station. Hezbollah currently holds eight seats in the 128-member Lebanese Parliament and is primarily active in the Bekaa Valley, the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. The group is headed by Sheik Hassan Nasrallah and is financed largely by Iran and Syria, though it also raises funds itself through charities and commercial activities."

[Colorado Blue]

48. Black September in Jordan - how the PLO got to Lebanon

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September_in_Jordan

This tells the story of how the PLO tried to assassinate the King of Jordan, blew up several aircraft, and essentially started a civil war within The Kingdom of Jordan. Subsequently, the PLO was evicted, went to Lebanon, and drew Israel into the Lebanese Civil War.

Background information:

"In the aftermath of the Six Day War, a number of Arab groups were looking for ways to "restore honor" or advance their causes. Palestinians constituted a majority of Jordan's population and had support by many Arab regimes, most notably by Egypt's President Nasser. Israel was repeatedly hit with cross-border attacks by fedayeen guerrillas.

snip

Having been responsible for many of these attacks, Yassir Arafat had become a hero ... and "masses of young Arabs joined the ranks of his group Fatah. Under pressure, Ahmad Shukeiri resigned from the PLO leadership and in July 1968, Fatah joined and soon controlled the PLO."

snip

The PLO began threatening the existence of Jordan itself. The Jordanian community was polarized. Measures taken to crack down on the PLO resulted in violence:

"On September 1, 1970, an attempt to kill the king failed. On September 6, in the series of Dawson's Field hijackings, three planes were hijacked by PFLP: a SwissAir and a TWA in Zarqa and a BOAC in Cairo, on September 9, a British Airways plane at Amman, the passengers were held hostage. The PFLP announced that the hijackings were designed "to teach the Americans a lesson because of their long-standing support of Israel". After all hostages were removed, the planes were demonstratively blown up in front of TV cameras. Directly confronting and angering the King, the rebels declared Irbid area a "liberated region".

On September 16, King Hussein declared martial law. The next day, Jordanian tanks (the 60th armored brigade) attacked the headquarters of Palestinian organizations in Amman; the army also attacked camps in Irbid, Salt, Sweileh and Zarqa. Then the head of Pakistani training mission to Jordan, General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq, took command of the 2nd division.

The armored troops were inefficient in narrow city streets, and after first casualties they resorted to unobserved shelling. Soon, many city blocks were left with no electricity, food or water. Some Palestinians deserted from the Jordanian army. Brigadier Bajahat Muhaisein (a Jordanian who had a Palestinian wife) quit.

On September 18, Syrian armored forces began invasion into Jordan. In three days, with support of Palestine Liberation Army (PLA), they were the size of a division and were met by the 40th armored brigade of Jordanian army."

It is estimated that as many as tens of thousands of people died in Jordan. The PLO was evicted and went to Lebanon.

Once in Lebanon, Arafat started shelling Israel from the north.

This is why the Israelis joined the war, and why it holds Lebanese territory to this day - to protect the lowlands to the south - and how Hizbollah came to be established.

And now, we have a drone, probably from Iran, flying over Israel.