My Repug friend says "Neo-Con" means "Jews" or "Zionists." True or False?

[Ian David]

My understanding is that Neo-Con means "neo-conservative" which includes ALL members of the "Neo-Con Death Cult" of the far-reich regardless of their religion or whether or not they support Israel.

Is this (as I told him) just an attempt by the Repugs to "re-frame" the debate or something?

So, I put this question to you, and ask for comment.

Does "Neo-Con" mean "Jew" or "Zionist?"

PLEASE DO NOT USE THIS AS A FORUM TO DEBATE THE MERITS OF ZIONISM.

I am only interested in the meaning/origin/usage of the word "Neo-Con."

Thanks!

[arcane1]

1. your friend is an idiot

unless he/she claims that Dick Cheney and Jeb Bush are Jewish? :shrug:

[Coastie for Truth]

17. As to Dick Cheney - And Paul Findlay

Dick Cheney engaged in very aggressive (Tom DeLay style) fund raising for Paul Findlay in 1982 (when Dick Durbin whipped Findlay's butt).

Paul Findlay was only "moderately" anti-Jewish, but bitterly anti-Israel. Findlay was an old fashion, mid-western, Conservative, Republican Congressman.

When Findlay's campaign was in trouble from the Dick Durbin challenge, Cheney jumped in to rescue his buddy Paul Findlay.

One of Cheney's gambits was to target employees of companies "ancillary" to energy and petroleum who had "Jewish sounding names" and strong arm them for campaign contributions. We are not talking $5 or $10 - we are talking big enough ($100-$250 in 1983) to be listed in Findlay ads.

And Dick Cheney is the kin of the Neo-cons.

How do I know all of this? I was one who was "strong armed" and who would not contribute. ;)

[sellitman]

25. Or worse

[democracyindanger]

2. Right wing talking point

They like to say that when liberals say "neo-con" they mean "Jew". They do it so they can call us anti-semites whenever we use the word.

I believe the word originated with Irving Kristol--the first 'neo-con'.

Tell him you'll concede that "neo-con" means "Jew" if he agrees "Republican" means "racist fucker."

[Zenlitened]

5. Absolutely. It's something the freepers of the world...

... try to inject into the discussion. Just another technique to draw fire away from the disastrous neo-con agenda, and put us on the defensive trying to explain something else entirely.

[bloom]

6. They must be afraid of people catching on that neo-cons

are NOT out for anyones interests but their own.

So whatever they can do to turn the tables - make the users of the word "neo-con" look bad, racist, etc. they'll do...

[FreedomAngel82]

16. I think the only

reason your friend said that is because of how the neocons are pro-Israel because they're supposed to be the "holy land." :eyes:

[Ian David]

12. That's what I told him. That the Reich-wing is "re-framing" the debate

When Howard Dean says the only Blacks at a Republican event are the help, suddenly it's Howard Dean that's the racist-- not the Republicans that alienate African-Americans.

When John Kerry congratulates Dick Cheney on his support of his politically active public figure very openly gay daughter, all of a sudden Kerry has "outed" her.

When we talk about Jeff Gannon, suddenly they make the issue, "They're just bashing him because he asked conservative questions and he's gay."

When people criticize the Republican Neo-con death cult, suddenly, "They're not talking about US! They're talking about JEWS! Those damn anti-semitic liberals!"

Thank you for confirming that this is just Reich-wing propaganda.

[cestpaspossible]

3. If he says 'up' means 'down' will you still take him seriously?

[Cocoa]

4. your friend is a parrot

he heard someone on some RW radio show say that (I've heard it many times), and he's regurgitating it as if it's his own thought.

[Totally Committed]

7. The way I understand it, "Neo-Con" means...

A new-style conservative.

Back in the 50's, 60's, and 70's, the Republicand Party was known as "The Loyal Opposition". They were said to be "Conservative", because of their economic policies, which "conserved", rather than "spent" -- at least that's how it was explained to me. They wanted the best for teh American people, just as the Democrats did -- just thought they had a different way to give them the best. There was sparring between the Parties, from time to time, but not the out-an-out warfare there is now.

The "Neo-Con" Revolution started with Ronald Reagan, who inspired the likes of Newt Gingrich, and joined by Robertson, Reed, and Falwell. But, it was not until Karl Rove came onto the scene that the true Extremist Regressive RW agenda was brought on the scene. They went after Clinton with the intention to destroy him. This had never happened to a sitting President before. These were the "Neo-Cons", the New Conservatives... not just out to change the economic policies of the U.S., but to destry the Democratic Party by any means possible.

That's how I see and understand the whole thing.

TC

[Crankie Avalon]

8. Your friend is just looking to appropriate...

...what he sees as the "protected minority" status of Jews.

His fantasy is that, when you say something critical about neo-cons, you can then be portrayed as anti-Semitic.

Domestically, neocons are creeps who preach "fiscal conservatism" but run up our debt to ever more dizzying levels so their cabal of buddies can profit at the nation's expense. Internationally, they are empire builders who preach "democracy" while victimizing weaker nations.

[maxsolomon]

9. FOS

it means former "liberals" who, under the tutelage & theories of U of Chicago professor Leo Strauss, changed to hawks who believe in the active projection of american power throughout the planet, using the military when appropriate.

they are newly-conservative. and many of them ARE jewish, but not all, and support of israel is high on their agenda. they are former members of the nixon, reagan, & bush white houses. they are the PNAC. Cheney, Wolfowitz, Perle, Krauthammer, Kritol, etc.

i cannot fucking stand it when "neo-con" is conflated with "conservative fundy wack job". one exploits the ignorance of the other with simplistic propaganda BS to implement their unappetizing agenda. i believe a paraphrase of Strauss' opinion of relilgion was "religion is the opiate of the masses, and that's a GOOD thing."

[TheIntruder240]

10. I'm a devout Jew and my dad's a Rabbi

We're all Democrats but have a Neo-Con son-in law. Neocon nothing to do with being Jewish.

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. I believe that the Neocons originally referred to the Washington

insiders who originally were, or were allied to Democrats particularly Scoop Jackson, and later on became ultra conservative on defense matters. The original Neocons were Richard Perle and Wolfowitz, thus the Jewish connection I guess.
I don't think that it makes any sense, by this definition to describe Cheney or Rumsfeld as "neo" anything, particularly conservative.

[Ian David]

13. Thank you all for your input. I'll compile it all email it to him. n/t

[Stephanie]

14. The neo-cons named themselves that >

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0028740211.01._PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[Ian David]

22. Thanks. I found this link. You're right, it's a term they made themselves

The Neoconservative Persuasion
From the August 25, 2003 issue: What it was, and what it is.
by Irving Kristol
08/25/2003, Volume 008, Issue 47


" an engaging person, but I think for some reason he's been captured by the neoconservatives around him."

--Howard Dean, U.S. News & World Report, August 11, 2003

WHAT EXACTLY IS NEOCONSERVATISM? Journalists, and now even presidential candidates, speak with an enviable confidence on who or what is "neoconservative," and seem to assume the meaning is fully revealed in the name. Those of us who are designated as "neocons" are amused, flattered, or dismissive, depending on the context. It is reasonable to wonder: Is there any "there" there?

Even I, frequently referred to as the "godfather" of all those neocons, have had my moments of wonderment. A few years ago I said (and, alas, wrote) that neoconservatism had had its own distinctive qualities in its early years, but by now had been absorbed into the mainstream of American conservatism. I was wrong, and the reason I was wrong is that, ever since its origin among disillusioned liberal intellectuals in the 1970s, what we call neoconservatism has been one of those intellectual undercurrents that surface only intermittently. It is not a "movement," as the conspiratorial critics would have it. Neoconservatism is what the late historian of Jacksonian America, Marvin Meyers, called a "persuasion," one that manifests itself over time, but erratically, and one whose meaning we clearly glimpse only in retrospect.

Viewed in this way, one can say that the historical task and political purpose of neoconservatism would seem to be this: to convert the Republican party, and American conservatism in general, against their respective wills, into a new kind of conservative politics suitable to governing a modern democracy. That this new conservative politics is distinctly American is beyond doubt. There is nothing like neoconservatism in Europe, and most European conservatives are highly skeptical of its legitimacy. The fact that conservatism in the United States is so much healthier than in Europe, so much more politically effective, surely has something to do with the existence of neoconservatism. But Europeans, who think it absurd to look to the United States for lessons in political innovation, resolutely refuse to consider this possibility.

Neoconservatism is the first variant of American conservatism in the past century that is in the "American grain." It is hopeful, not lugubrious; forward-looking, not nostalgic; and its general tone is cheerful, not grim or dyspeptic. Its 20th-century heroes tend to be TR, FDR, and Ronald Reagan. Such Republican and conservative worthies as Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover, Dwight Eisenhower, and Barry Goldwater are politely overlooked. Of course, those worthies are in no way overlooked by a large, probably the largest, segment of the Republican party, with the result that most Republican politicians know nothing and could not care less about neoconservatism. Nevertheless, they cannot be blind to the fact that neoconservative policies, reaching out beyond the traditional political and financial base, have helped make the very idea of political conservatism more acceptable to a majority of American voters. Nor has it passed official notice that it is the neoconservative public policies, not the traditional Republican ones, that result in popular Republican presidencies.


{In that article, here are the only references to Jews or Israel or Zionism I found:}

Barring extraordinary events, the United States will always feel obliged to defend, if possible, a democratic nation under attack from nondemocratic forces, external or internal. That is why it was in our national interest to come to the defense of France and Britain in World War II. That is why we feel it necessary to defend Israel today, when its survival is threatened. No complicated geopolitical calculations of national interest are necessary.

More:
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Utilities/printer_preview.asp?idArticle=3000&R=785F27881


Now, here is another site that asks if Neo-Con is Anti-Jewish or Anti-Israel:

Thinking About Neoconservatism
By Kevin MacDonald

Over the last year, there’s been a torrent of articles on neoconservatism raising (usually implicitly) some vexing issues: Are neoconservatives different from other conservatives?
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j032502.html

Is neoconservatism a Jewish movement? Is it “anti-Semitic” to say so?
http://hnn.us/articles/1530.html

The dispute between the neocons
http://www.lewrockwell.com/gottfried/gottfried21.html
and more traditional conservatives — “paleoconservatives” —
http://www.americasvoices.org/archives2003/AlexanderR/AlexanderR_050203.htm

is especially important because the latter now find themselves on the outside, looking in on the conservative power structure.

{The article refers to the Kristol article cited above}

And, equally frankly, Kristol eschewed any attempt to justify U.S. support for Israel in terms of American national interest:

<snip>

My conclusion: Contemporary neoconservatism fits into the general pattern of Jewish intellectual and political activism I have identified in my work.

I am not, of course, saying that all Jews, or even most Jews, supported these movements. Nor did these movements work in concert: some were intensely hostile to one another. I am saying, however, that the key figures in these movements identified in some sense as Jews and viewed their participation as in some sense advancing Jewish interests.

More:
http://www.the7thfire.com/new_world_order/zionism/thinking_about_neoconservatism.htm

The above article goes on to say that Jews are heavily influential in the NeoCon movement. And that it's OK to criticize that involvement and you shouldn't be considered anti-semitic for doing so.

But I also made special emphasis that Over the last year the torrent of these issues came up. And that Kristol himself didn't believe it was a "Zionist" movement.

IMHO, this adds further credence to the idea that the Zionist-Neocon concept is a recent attempt at re-framing the debate to make the word NeoCon into something else that makes us look bad when we use it.

[IrateCitizen]

15. He's taking his talking points from David Brooks....

Brooks wrote a column to this end in the NYT a few months back.

[NoPasaran]

18. Yes, that's it

Brooks wrote what even by his standards was a disgusting column smearing all who criticized neoconservatism as anti-semites.

[RealDems]

19. Brooks also got in a bit of trouble for that column

if I'm not mistaken. I think he even had to apologize. He claimed he was being facetious, but it was widely interpreted as accusing war opponents of being anti-Semites.

[peacetalksforall]

20. Other: It means christians and jews working for themselves and Israel.

By Israel, I mean the Sharon government and all equivalents of neo-cons...I didn't say Jews, I didn't say Zionists, I think I mean the Likud Party.

Check out all the think tanks and co-operatives who plan and carry out the neo-con agenda - check out all the Israeli representatives who are co-establishing the agenda that we are now following, to our downfall.

Sorry grammarians, I don't capitalize christian and jew when it comes to neo-cons and fanatics.

[booksenkatz]

21. Just because the 2 groups' agendas intersect sometimes

doesn't mean that they're the same. I buy groceries at a store where a neo-con also buys his groceries, because we both need food. Doesn't mean anything more than that.

[veracity]

23. Your 'friend' is using Goebbel's logic

All mothers are female. That in NO WAY implies that all females are mothers.

Some neocons are Jews.....many are not. If some prominent neocons are Jews, it in NOW WAY implies that all Jews are neocons.

The Zionist question is another red herring. Zionist views range from Noam Chomsky on the far left to Netanyahu or Charansky on the far right. It's ridiculous to discuss the subject with those who know nothing about its origins or its vast range of ideals.

For those who don't know who the Neocons are who heavily influence this administration....think PNAC - and its founder Bill Kristol of the Weekly Standard. Then check out the Rogues Gallery of PNAC NeoCON Artists:

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/pnac_neo-con_artists.html

[dubyaD40web]

24. When your friend says something retarded like that, laugh in his face.

Works like a charm, and how can they argue with being laughed at? The more they try to argue, the funnier it becomes, the harder you laugh, the more pathetic they look and the stupider (or madder) they feel, and they eventually begin to realize that they're being an idiot. Or at least that they're being laughed at.
It also draws attention to how stupid they are, which is why I always laugh LOUD.

[housewolf]

26. The original neo-cons

were leftists, Trotskites, supporters of Senator Henry "Scoop" Jackson (D-WA). They split from the left in the 70's because they believed that the left went weak on defense and they advocated a strong military anti-communist stance. The anti-Viet Nam war movement turned them to the right. They despised the so-called "moral relativism" that grew out of the 60's.

The initial group grew out of the teachings of Leo Strauss, a German Jewish philosopher professor at the University of Chicago, and Irving Kristol & Gertrude Himmelfarb (sp?), who are William Kristol's parents. Some who gathered around the teachings were Paul Wolfowitz, Elliot Abramson, "Scooter" Libby, Norman Podhoretz, Richard Perle, Daniel Pipes, Doug Feith, Charles Krauthammer, Francis Fukuyama, and a host of others.

_Many_ of those folks were/are Jewish, but not all of them. Many of them strongly support/favor Israel. However, "Neo-con" does not equate to either "Jew" or "Zionist." _Some_ neo-cons may be either or both a Jew and/or a Zionist, but it is not true that all neo-cons are Jews and/or Zionists.

Today, the neo-cons believe in a "pax Americana" empire of peace across the globe through the use of American force "doing good" around the world. They are not opposed to big government or large deficits. They believe in free market capitalism and are opposed to the welfare state. They believe in strong Executive powers and a marginalized Congress.

Primary in their beliefs is a strong military taking action around the world on behalf of "U.S. interests" rather than huminatarian needs.

Here's a link to a couple of articles that can give you some more info
http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/042003H.shtml

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism_(United_States)

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Neoconservative


You've asked a good question. The term "neo-con" is thrown about indiscriminately, and it is good to have clarity when using terms that "name" someone into a group. There is a lot of good information on the net about neo-conservatism, and lots of people here who are informed and can answer questions.

[aden_nak]

27. The NeoCons support Zionist, but for a perverse reason.

They believe it is necessary in order for the Rapture to take place. So, essentially, many of them are Zionist-supporters, so that Jesus can return and kill all of the Jews.

I don't believe in that shit, I am just pointing out where that confusion may have come from.

[Ian David]

28. Neocons are to Israel what Frank Purdue is to Chickens? n/t

[aden_nak]

29. EXACTLY!

[undergroundrailroad]

30. Locking per I/P Guidelines.

This post contains inappropriate content and language which is prohibited in the Israeli/Palestinian forum as well all forums at DU.

Locking

Undergroundrailroad
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